ah, ah ah ah, ah, ah, ah! hello and welcome to crosstalk. were all things considered? i'm funeral about lies and liars, n b c. news reports u. s. intelligence agencies have been deliberately lined, bring foamy stories about the warn ukraine, through the media. those of us who have watch carefully the conflict suspected this all along. when you're losing an argument or a war,

the 1st line of defense is to lie. ah. to discuss these issues any more, i'm joined by my guess. judge brower in bristol, she's the deputy leader of the workers party of britain, as well as author of the drive to war against russia in china. and in budapest we have george samuel. he is a pod, castor at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. all right, cross up rules that affect, that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate it or i, let's start out with georgia in budapest. well, george may be the kind of been evolution of the information more is that the intelligence agencies are telling us they're lying. i mean, you and i and jumpy we are, we say that they're lying, but now they've come out, you know, they're ahead of the, the shark here saying that, you know, we're doing this information thing here. and the, the media is so proud to be part of this information, bro,

it's really quite amazing because they're lying to us to protect us, george. and of course, the gradient. people go ahead. yes. that's right. it's quite an extraordinary thing that we have the intelligence services openly, boasting that they are telling lies the media a quite happy to be transmitting these lies and you know that both thing about this them. but the fact is that if by admitting this, then they're essentially undermining any reason why we should take any of the claims that you're making today, those serious things. and so george is, it's kind of like, you know, i'm lying to you. that's the truth. that's the, that's right. so all the stories that the media now regaling us with rosters losing the wall. russian forces are absolutely demoralized their artillery, their food supply that oil supply,

all of it is going to run out very shortly. polluted isn't listening to any of his advisors, all of the stories that you know who you read in the new york times, the washington post and the guardian. but why, why should we believe any of them? but it is true, this whole of ukraine paper has been a gigantic sustain propaganda campaign. and this is what the west has actually been waging in all of this time. so you know, they, they then declare total economic war against russia. but also the klan total propaganda war against russia. a complete demonize ation a complete hysterical campaign of historical hatred against russia like that which were never seen. we never saw anything like this during the call war. and the media has been very participants in all those. but i think is quite remarkable. looking

at western coverage of the conflict in ukraine is that you don't see much coverage of the conflict in your grade. is really quite remarkable. and look, none of us are military experts though. i know some myself, personally here when, when you see a tank, you know, i mean for the, for the 4 of us, i mean, is it a russian tanker, ukrainian tank. it's pretty hard for us to tell. and most of the footage i've seen, i've been told that the ukrainian tank ok, but i'm not going to take sides of that because i'm not an expert on it. but i do think and looking at media behavior in lead behavior, when things start going south going the wrong way years, there's this knee jerk reaction. let's lie and not only lie about it, lie about it. big time, go ahead. lutely, and this is of course not new behavior. you know, we seen it. i remember very, particularly the shock that i felt at the time of the libya will when the b, b. c showed what it claim to be a live feed from green square in tripoli, where,

where there was a huge uprising, it said going on. and they showed really what seemed like live footage. and they're assuming, obviously their audience knows nothing. because the footage was indians in india, and anyone who knows anything could have seen that, but they basically claim this was a live feed from libya, which it clearly wasn't to anyone who knows. and i think they never backtracked and that they never apologized. they don't, they just don't like to lie. now, you know, george was saying, you know, they go out, they go ok, yes, well, i will answer your benefits. you know, what they do with these lies. even when they caught out, they still have to double down and they say yes, but we're doing it in a good cause. and they can get away with saying, we're doing it in a good cause. because the entire media and political establishment has disappeared . all of the context that makes sense. so they've built this story that says russian aggression came from nowhere. plasma proteins mad. i mean, you have psychology journals in this country,

running articles about the state of mind, vladimir putin life. this is going to help us understand. this is the context they give you for the war. what they don't give you is 30 years of impact. 75 years of nights i meddling in ukraine of funding nazis against 1st the soviet union. and then against russia, of the looting of controlling of the, posing governments. they don't like all that context. they disappear. and then when the court in their lives, they say, well, yes, but it's for a good cause because russian aggression is crazy and we've got to stop it. it's right. you know, georgia, b, one of the things the n b c news report mentioned is that the intelligence community is trying to get into pollutants, which i'm not really sure, but to me. and why would and intelligence russian military give a hoot about when western intelligence agencies are telling western publics about this conflict? i don't understand why that would. they would waste one breath on that. go ahead.

that's right, and it's very peculiar because now they are lying, and therefore the russians know that they are lying. so why will the russians be in any way moved by things of the russians are obviously lies. and in fact, the rush of the ban, conclude the opposite, which is that the case is pretty thin. that's why they have to lie them. and they're not able to boast of any actual accomplishment. so they have to live up there. but it's very interesting that the, what we have through these lies is what is actually being suppressed. i mean, let's imagine all the stories about the bio lapse. well, what happened to that? i mean, that was, that was only a, that was a really, you know, to just this information campaign. but nonetheless, that is a very big story of which basically of the united states was unable to provide a coherent explanation. on the job,

you pointed out everything that preceded the russian of russia, launching the special operations of everybody for everything that preceded before the 8 years of nato training and embedding it so within your grade. that's just vanish. and so, no, it isn't really surprising that what happens to west respond well, they essentially outlaw any dissenting voices. and so far it's just been a no one to see them. but that's, it's not going to stop it. i mean it will be, you know, it's just a matter of time. busy they start closing all down, all of the twitter accounts, or anyone who's presenting an alternative view of you. great. so this is the session, a gigantic, this information campaign on that the west is waging,

and it is all was frankly, it is a total war that is bound raging against russia. exhausting. it's really quite amazing. the intelligence community agencies and the intelligence community. probably this can, i appreciate just how lucky they are when we have this fake russia gate hoax. and then you had all of these cable stations bringing in former spooks and all this was, you know, when we're all coming up, if you wouldn't trust those people, you wouldn't trust them to walk your dog. ok, but now they're invited into your living room. every single night here. and so we see this evolution is that, you know, instead of being suspicious of people that live for a living, despite the steve for a living. now there's celebrated here. i mean, this is one of the most extraordinary things i've seen in my life because their job is to deceive ok. not necessarily the general public, the, we know they do that, but foreign governments now,

there are supposed to tell us there the actually quite noble people, so empire, imperialism is your word. empires. my word is noble again. i mean, that's a great come back. well, they can try to make a comeback on that, but i'm afraid the days when you could bravely say the imperialism is the way forward a well and truly in the past they were put in the past a 100 years ago was clear, is not able to win the military war on the ground, not able to win the trade ball, which they thought would bring the military world to a quick end and hasn't, is totally by firing on them. and russia is able to withstand, russia is finding new markets, new partners, new ways to send money and, and goods around the world. but europe is not finding replacements for. 6 for russian gas and russian weights and other things, are the commodities that depends on for its industry, that war is backfiring massively. the only war they fail that they can really wage

successfully as the one they're the best that have the most kind of dominance over . and that's the, that's the psychological operation. that's the media will. and that's why you have these talking. it constantly on the, on the west, the news channel saying, you know, russia's losing the information brushes losing the information well, well, you know, in the west or that may be true to an extent. i don't think it is true as they want it to be. there's an awful lot of wishful thinking that goes on just like when they talk about how there's a big deal of resistance moving building in ukraine and russia come up against obstacles. it wasn't expecting, you know, you know, that is entirely wishful thinking. what russia is waging a very careful campaign on the ground. it's been very clever. in fact about how it's maneuvered to coltrane, the ukrainian forces and cut them off from one another, cut them off from their vehicles, destroyed. they feel that pose, you know, for everything i've heard. even westerners who are supplying them with the weapons are starting to run out of things to send them, is the russians just get hold of them and destroy them. they're not able to make

good use of them. you know, there's a job to just to kind of record what you're saying is the said, no, i watch all these are horrible on the ground reporting, which of course is very, very far away from where apparently the mining is. the internet still works. your tricity still works. george gas is still flowing from russia to europe in the middle of this war. it's the main thing. how would you compare that to the american operation in rocca georgia? touch yes on. that's right. they, they're measuring everything by the way, that the united states and nato wage. there was a ban, like united states in particular ways. this shock and all campaign which is total destruction, total devastation and russia didn't do that. never intended to do that and has never been the russian way of waging war. so this is so immediate, an immediate good russia, russia was expecting to take your brain within 2 days. it didn't happen that will

russia as well. and, you know, and the british media, and here they were just simply pirating. a british government propaganda was saying russia has failed within 24 hours. and then it was a 1st or is already very russians as well in 24 hours. so as joe says, yes, the west is winning the propaganda campaign. yeah. because they control the world's media, other than most the world's media in under the control of the west. and even the of the social media was a little control was yeah. so they better than winning this campaign. a lot of this it had voices, but there they went in there this campaign because they bought me on twitter, on facebook, they take all of my 17 years to work on youtube gun. that's what they think they're winning. i hear i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that your break will, can you continue our discussion on some real estate? ah, ah,

ah. a shape out becomes the advocate. an engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves will the part we choose to look so common ground? ah, well the matter crossed up. we're all things are considered. i'm cute, little bell. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah. all right, let's go back to bristol hips. you know, if we talked about in the 1st part of the program, the, from the massive information more that's going on here. we have to talk about what's also in the news is these are alleged atrocities that are being committed. um and you know, i mean it's, again, it's shocking. are they show a few pictures? they show a short video and then they make a definitive statement,

no investigation, no 3rd party. and what they hope is that it'll stick. ok. so we, we can look at the city, the outsider, by care where they found up to what $400.00 bodies mass spray and then a train station that was a missile attacks. but anyone with any kind of curiosity with access to the internet can pick those stories apart quite quickly, actually. ok, and you know, one of the things i find most pathetic, the missile that we're, that did hit that train station that apparently killed many people and had written on the missile for the children. but western media doesn't seem to understand that ukrainian is in cyrillic as well. ok as if anyone would take that at face value. i mean, this is either their hope all flags for a reason here. and that's these false lives reinforce we've been saying is that when you're losing start lying, go ahead lately. and there's 2 things to look at with the war crimes narrative then

number one is the the blades and full flag nature of every so called crime a legit crime that has so far been reported they've been picked apart really quickly by people as you say, who cared to take the trouble to look into it. for example, the so called massacre by russian. so it is in, in boca turned out from the evidence to the phone has been taken. so 3 days later, when they said they've been taken by a after the, the russians that moved out in good order, they weren't forced out. they left, they had, they moved out the credit to come in the mail celebrated. and 2 days later they said there's been a tricity and you know, and even in those photos the people who you say he'd been shot, they're holding russian russians and wearing white arm bands, which indicates that they are people who were friendly and happy to see the russians in their city, and that might well be the reason they got shot by ukrainians after the russians left. so there's, you know, there's that side of it, you know,

is blatant lies. there's also the staggering hypocrisy of the west, which has been committing war crime after war, crime of the war crime, all of whose leaders and it says if the newspapers should all be in the dock for the terrible crimes they've been committing for the last 30 years, and when people like me said, look at the principles of nuremberg look at international law. these people are committing crimes. we will not out of the building. what are you talking about that be silly, blah blah, right? to protect shock and you know, all of the words they used to justify rules based or do they stop talking about international law when they were so blatantly breaking it and started talking about the rules based order. i the rules that we impose on everybody else and the standards that we hold other people to are not the ones we hold ourselves to. now, i personally think that dredging up nuremberg and reminding people what international law is and where it comes from, is going to possibly re bound on the imperialist because they're the ones you've

been committing these crimes. the last that he is. well, that's why the rules based order george has come into fashion with these people here are exactly the same. the reason we just heard international law is that pesky thing that gets in the way all the time to, you know, i want to, i want to tap into your expertise here. when you and i on our, our podcast, the goggle that's, that's on locals and you, you know, something about these kinds of false flag operations. you know something about these a misinformation wars because you know, a whole lot about the breakup of the former yugoslavia. and you've told me repeatedly this is like saying the same bad movie. again, we're going to a little bit of detail about it, is they just all over again. what was fascinating in the case of you to solve it, was that every time there seem to be either some crucial united nations security council meeting coming up all the piece, negotiations when making real progress. and then the agreement seems to be on the

horizon. every time there was a massacre. you loan, behold, now, you know the cerebral marketplace. there were no less than 3 massacres during those 2, those 3 years of the was ever and each time it happened was a crucial strategic moment. and as soon as it happened bone, everybody get all the media, all of the you, the bill of the political, it has a government to solve the subs that the subs amongst those, the subs are evil. we've got to bomb the subs. now now the united nations inspectors on the grounds that we're not really very sure. i mean, it doesn't look very unlikely. but those voices were still just as the, the weapons inspectors in syria in duma were also silenced. and he said the politicians, you know, just sounded off the media, we're happy to both this. so we have the mac and then then we have right check in

the cost of all that we have red, renews. all of these were very careful operation. and then of course we had, the libya got off, he's about to commit genocide. and so we need to stop estimating genocide. and then all the stories about feeding biographies troops in order to commit mass race. this is the psychological war. the west is very good and there are going to be a lot more of this now in the ukraine. i mean we can just be sure that every few days we're going to get in all the one in other oh, massacre. all this rocket land and other children's hospital oh, on college expenses, just be blown up. i mean, the west knows how to play this game in the, you know, the, one of the reasons why not only is to say a cover story for intentionally provoking rushed into a military like that. it's really well document. we don't have to talk about it a great length here, but i mean, the soft flags, atrocities,

war crimes. that's all to explain to public, to the west. why energy prices are going up and why there could be flown shortage in all other kinds of bi change or chain issues here. because we, you, we all have to sacrifice for what they call the democracy. which should be a topic for a separate program because it's not. i mean, you know, this is not panama from juris. it's not yes. and this is a g 20 company that is an integral part of the global economy. and the blow back is only just beginning here. how long do you think people who say yeah, i'm going to wrap it, but the ukrainians, a country they only heard about 6 weeks ago. go ahead. i think not for as long as the imperial is the whole thing, i know they can't keep this level of hysteria for long and the long that i try to keep it. the more people will grow to be uninterested in the whole thing,

because the reality of what's happening in their lives is much more important to them. and you have to be in quite a privileged position to be saying, i don't mind if the price of my fuel goes on. i don't mind if the price of my food goes up in reality is you know, since cove it and the crash that came just before cove. it, you know, the troubles of the working people in the west are only getting worse. and that was before this latest escalation in the trade will, that's really starting to rebound in europe. i think german workers in particular are going to be some of the 1st to say we've had enough of this. i actually saw some footage of a german kind of car. what would equal like procession in berlin, like a protest. thousands of cars with russian flags. you know, of german people saying we are not for this bull. you know, and the, the way that you're, you know, european industry, european prices, european energy costs are going to skyrocket. already. have started to, is going to massively rebound on the people. and the war crimes narrative itself,

i think, is going to fall apart when russia starts to release the evidence that it is carefully gathering. you know, having cleared the as of fascists out of mary paul and liberated the people there from the i and heal. they have started to very carefully collect evidence of what these guys have been doing, what kind of crimes that the committing for. how long do they get their orders from, who they get their equipment from. those trials of ukrainians in ukraine are going to be extremely, extremely eliminate. tell viewers of this program heard here from jobs because she's absolutely right. these, they've been watching these people commit crimes against humanity in the dumbass for 8 years. they know exactly who they are. they know where they are and they will find justice. ok, they will meet just this year. but until we, before we get there towards, you know, this is just an elite topic. this is an elite war. this is in league emotion. ok. they give you 2 and a few other bands got together to raise money. i mean,

i'm really, you know, kind of bizarre myself. i mean, you know, you know, you would be a lease call you, you get on stage and you do your act for them. ok. and everybody feels good, where the money goes to one of the most corrupt countries, which even, you know, and even in the think tanks in the west said that before this conflict, obviously now it is someplace of, of great virtue and not criminality and fast. go ahead. yes, it really is. i mean, over the weekend we have a l and we're still on the line and they visit your grain analysis that we have to win this war on the battlefields in your brain. and i was, he wasn't around the top foreign policy person of the you is essentially declaring war on russia. we're going to fight against russia in your rent. and then when

we're still on the line with your fight is outside, now i will be in isn't exactly the european. the says, you know, way you know, when did that happen when, when, when did it done out that ukraine will somehow fight? and in fact, what elections we've had with the elections in hungary and so there are both where you look at the winning down to this explicitly said, hey, you know, include me out. i, you know, i, we don't have anything to do with this. and then we've got the french election, the media trying to spin this every which way all micro been absent without leave, you know, you know, that's why he's not doing so well. but the fact is that pretty much every candidate who's running in the french election once to be out of nato, and is complaining bitterly about effect the war on the living standards of the french. everything that the french workers was suffering because of this level.

they did not want to extend their involvement. and even in germany, you know, with the traffic like go for everyone to say you want destroying our economy. our pride enjoyed our bootstrap one day this war is destroying it. so where is there any support? anywhere for increasing european or nato involvement. great. well, we're almost out of here. you know, i mean they're, they're the big talk from the big honchos is that, you know, we have to bowen ukraine into, into the, you. well, if this continues, i think a lot of members of the, you want to get out of this organization here. unfortunately, that's all the time we have a want to thank my guest in brussels and in budapest we're still watching us next time. remember ah ah

ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high selection or community? ah, you going the right way? where are you being with? what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted. you need to descend. ah, so join us in the depths. will remain in the shallows. tonight. so you are a book, a

still open yet stole green. scott, i don't know who at this point is what kind of board missed this deal with the way i would if you have a good a good huge, but you're more difficult. i was too late to 3rd up up, up for the day of school, a pro that then you shouldn't have been really well. yes, you said all of us, i was actually in the speaker. what potential plus is when you move in pushy, i get some pushy a somebody see way lead, but i do it for them by soon. ah ah,

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