ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things we considered. i'm peter lavelle lives in liars, nbc news reports u. s. intelligence agencies have been deliberately laundering foaming, stories about the warn ukraine through the media. those of us who have watched carefully the conflict suspected this all along. when you're losing an argument or a war, the 1st line of defense is to lie. ah

. to discuss these issues any more, i'm joined by my guess judge you brower in bristol, she's the deputy leader of the workers party of britain as well as author of the drive to war against russia in china. and in budapest we have george samuel. he is a pod, castor at the gaggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. all right, cross up rules that affect, that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate it. or i would start out with georgia in budapest. well, georgia may be the kind of an evolution of the information more is that the intelligence agencies are telling us they're lying. i mean, you and i and johnny, we always say that they are lying, but now they've come out, you know, they're ahead of the, the shark here saying that, you know, we're doing this information thing here. and the in the media is so proud to be part of this information program. it's really quite amazing because they're lying to us to protect us, george, and of course, ukrainian people. yes,

it is quite an extraordinary thing that we have the intelligence services openly, boasting that they are telling lies the media a quite happy to be transmitting these lies and you know that both thing about this them. but the fact is that if by admitting this, then they're essentially undermining any reason why we should take any of the claims that you're making today, those serious things. and so george is, it's kind of like, you know, i'm lying to you. that's the truth. that's the, that's right. so all the stories that the media now regaling us with rosters losing the wall. russian forces are absolutely demoralized their artillery, their food supply that oil supply, all of it is going to run out very shortly. polluted isn't listening to any of his

advisors, all of the stories that you know who you read in the new york times, the washington post and the guardian. but why, why should, who believe any of them? but it is true, this whole a crane paper has been a gigantic sustain propaganda campaign. and this is what the west has actually been waging in all of this time. so you know, they, they then declare total economic war against russia. but also the klan total propaganda war against russia. a complete demonized ation a complete hysterical campaign of historical hatred against russia like that which we have never seen. we never saw anything like this during the call war. and the media has been very happy participants in all those jumping, but i think is quite remarkable. looking at western coverage of the conflict in ukraine is that you don't see much coverage of the i did you grade is really quite

remarkable. and look, none of us are military experts though. i know some myself personally here when, when you see a tank, you know, i mean for the, for the 4 of us, i mean, is it a russian tank or a ukrainian tank? it's pretty hard for us to tell. and most of the footage i've seen, i've been told that the ukrainian tank. okay, but i'm not going to take sides of that because i'm not an expert on it. but i do think and looking at media behavior in lead behavior, when things start going south going the wrong way, years there's this need jerk reaction. let's lie and not only lie about it, lie about it. big time, go ahead. lutely, and this is of course not new behavior. you know, we seen it. i remember very, particularly the shock that i felt at the time of the libya will when the b, b. c showed what it claim to be a live feed from green square in tripoli, where, where there was a huge uprising, it said going on. and they showed really what seemed like live footage. and they're

assuming, obviously their audience knows nothing. because the footage was indians in india, and anyone who knows anything could have seen that, but they basically claim this was a live feed from libya, which it clearly wasn't to anyone who knows. and i think they never backtrack, that they never apologized. they don't, they just don't like to lie. now, you know, george was saying, you know, they go out, they go. ok, yes, we like what we like. so your benefits, you know, what they do with these lies, even when they're caught out, they sort of have to double down. and they say yes, but we're doing it in a good cause. and they can get away with saying, we're doing it in a good cause because the entire media and political establishment has disappeared. all of the context that makes sense. so they've built this story that says russian aggression came from nowhere. plasma putins mad. i mean, you have psychology journals in this country, running articles about the states of mind, vladimir putin life. this is going to help us understand. this is the context they

give you for the war. what they don't give you is 30 years of impact. 75 years of nights i meddling in ukraine of funding nazis against 1st the soviet union. and then against russia, of the looting of controlling of the opposing governments. they don't like all that context. they disappear and then when the court in their lives, they say, well, yes, but it's for a good cause because russian aggression is crazy and we've got to stop it. it's right. you know, georgia, b, one of the things the n b c news report mentioned is that the intelligence community is trying to get into pollutants, which i'm not really sure, but to me. and why would an intelligence freshman military give a hoot about what western intelligence agencies are telling western publics about this conflict? i don't understand why that would. they would waste one breath on that. go ahead. that's right. and it's very peculiar because they are ally. and therefore,

the russians know that they are lying. so why will the russians be in any way of move things up? the russians are obviously lies. and in fact, the rush of the band concludes the opposite. which is that the case is pretty thin . that's why they have to lie, but they're not able to boast of any actual accomplishments, so they have to lie about. but it's very interesting that the, what we have through these lies is what is actually being suppressed. i mean, let's imagine all the stories about the bio labs. well, what happened? the last, i mean that was that was, that was to ferris's theory, booting this information campaign. but nonetheless, that is a very big story. which basically, the united states was unable to provide remotely coherent explanation. all the jody funded everything that preceded the

russian russians. launching these special operations off every everything that preceded before the, the 8 years of training and embedding it so within your grade, that's just vanish. so no, it is not really surprising that what, how does the west respond? well, they essentially outlaw any dissenting voices, and so far it's just been off the phone that just disappeared. no one could see them, but that's not going to stop there. i mean, there will be, you know, it's just a matter of time before they start closing it all down, all of the twitter accounts, or anyone who's presenting an alternative view of great. so this is the, such a gigantic disinformation campaign of that. the west is waging, and it is all was frankly, it is

a total war that is bound raging against russia. exhausting. it's really quite amazing. the intelligence community agencies and the intelligence community, probably this can. i appreciate just how lucky they are when we have this fake russia gate hoax. and then you had all of these cables stations bringing in former spooks and all this was, you know, when we're all coming up here or you wouldn't trust those people, you wouldn't trust them to walk your dog. ok, but now they're invited into your living room. every single night here. and so we see this evolution is that, you know, instead of being suspicious of people that live for a living, despite the steve for a living. now there's celebrated here. i mean, this is one of the most extraordinary things i've seen in my life because their job is to deceive ok. not necessarily the general public, the, we know they do that, but foreign governments. now there's are supposed to tell us they're actually quite noble people. so empire,

imperialism is your word. empires. my word is noble again. i mean, that's a great come back. well, they can try to make a comeback on that. but i'm afraid the days when you could bravely say the imperialism is the way forward, are well and truly in the past. they were put in the past a 100 years ago. and what's clear is not able to win the military war on the ground, not able to win the trade ball, which they thought would bring the military world to a quick end and hasn't, is totally by firing on them. and russia is able to withstand, russia is finding new markets, new partners, new ways to send money and, and goods around the world. but europe is not finding replacements for, for russian gas and russian weights. and other things are the commodities that depends on for its industry, that war is backfiring massively. the only war they fail that they can really wage successfully as the one they're the best that have the most kind of dominance over

. and that's the, that's the psychological operation. that's the media will, and that's why you have these talking. it constantly on the, on the west, the news channel saying, you know, russia's losing the information brushes losing the information well, well, you know, in the west or that may be true to an extent. i don't think it is true as they want it to be. there's an awful lot of wishful thinking that goes on just like when they talk about how there's a big deal of resistance moving building in ukraine and russia come up against obstacles. it wasn't expecting, you know, you know, that is entirely wishful thinking. what russia is waging a very careful campaign on the ground. it's been very clever in fact about how it's maneuvered to cauldron the ukrainian forces and cut them off from one another, cut them off from their vehicles, destroyed. they feel that pose, you know, for everything i've heard. even westerners who are supplying them with the weapons, are starting to run out of things to send them, is the russians just get hold of them and destroy them. they're not able to make good use of them. you know, there's a job to just to kind of record what you're saying is a said, no,

i watch all these on hold on the ground reporting, which of course is very, very far away from where apparently the mining is. the internet still works. your tricity still works. george gas is still flowing from russia to europe in the middle of this war. it may think, how would you compare that to the american operation in rocca georgia? touch? yes on. that's right. there. they're measuring everything by the way, that the united states and nato wage, there was a day late united states in particular ways. it's shocking oil campaign, which is total destruction total devastation and russia didn't do that. never intended to do that and has never been the russian way of waging war. so this is so immediate, an immediate good russia has fan russia was expecting to take your brain within 2 days. it didn't happen that will russia, as well as you know, and the british media, and here they were just simply pirating. a british government propaganda was saying

russia has failed within 24 hours. and then it was a 1st or is already a very russian says within 24 hours. so as joe says, yes, the west is winning the propaganda campaign. yeah. because they control the world's media, other than most of the world's media in under the control of the west, and even the of the social media. most them are little control less. yeah. so they are better than winning this campaign. a lot of this it had voices, but there they went in this campaign because they bought me on twitter. exactly. on facebook. they take all of my 17 years to work on youtube. that's why they think they're winning. i hear i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that your break will, can you continue our discussion on some real new saying, ah ah,

a ah. you know, you saw your book spoken with stole green scott autumn. yeah. who display what kind of missed a report with the way, would it be over? good news for you to pick up would huge, but you're more difficult. it was too late to set up on a bus to reload the day of school or pro that then you shouldn't have been really well just you said all of them are why don't you lead in this particular way? it fictitious pushes you move in, push. yeah,

you can push a somebody, see wayne lead to re do it on them by ah, ah well the master crossed up, were all things considered? i'm cute little bell. this is the home addition remind you were discussing some real news. ah. all right, let's go back to bristol, he, you know, if we talked about in the 1st part of the program, the, him from the massive information more that's going on here. we have to talk about what's also in the news is these are alleged atrocities that are being committed.

i'm an, you know, i mean it's, again, it's shocking. are they show a few pictures. they show a short video and, and they make a definitive statement, no investigation, no 3rd party. and what they hope is that it will stick. ok. so we can look at their city, the outsider, by care where they found up to what 400 bodies masquerade, you know, and then a train station that was a missile attack. but anyone with any kind of curiosity with access to the internet can pick those stories apart quite quickly actually. okay. and, you know, the, one of the things i find most pathetic, the missile that we're of that, that did hit that train station that apparently killed many people and had written on the missile for the children. but western media doesn't seem to understand that ukrainian is in cyrillic as well. ok as if anyone would take that at face value. i mean this is a, these, they're called false flags for a reason here. and that's with these false flags reinforced. well we've been saying

is that when you're losing start lying, go ahead lately and there's 2 things to look at with the war crimes narrative then number one is the the blades and full flag nature of every so called crime a legit crime that has so far been reported they've been picked apart really quickly by people as you say, who cared to take the trouble to look into it. for example, the so called massacre by russian. so it is in, in boca turned out from the evidence to the folks as have been taken. so 3 days later, when they said they've been taken by a after the, the russians that moved out in good order, they weren't forced out. they left, they had, they moved out the credit to come in the mail celebrated. and 2 days later they said there's been an atrocity. and you know, and even in those photos the people who you say he'd been shot, they're holding russian russians and wearing white arm bands, which indicates that they are people who were friendly and happy to see the

russians in their city. and that might well be the reason they got shot by ukrainians after the russians left. so there's, you know, there's that side of it. you know, is blatant lies. there's also the staggering hypocrisy of the west, which has been committing war crime after war. crime of the war crime, all of whose leaders and it says if the newspapers should all be in the dock for the terrible crimes they've been committing for the last 30 years. and when people like me said, look at the principles of nuremberg look at international law. these people are committing crimes. we will not out of the building. what are you talking about that be silly, blah blah, right? to protect shock and you know, all of the words they used to justify rules based or do they stop talking about international law when they were so blatantly breaking it and started talking about the rules based order by the rules that we impose on everybody else. and the standards that we hold other people too are not the ones we hold ourselves to. now, i personally think that dredging up nuremberg and reminding people what

international law is and where it comes from, is going to possibly re bound on the imperialist because they're the ones you've been committing these crimes. the last that he is. well, that's why the rules based order george has come into fashion with these people here are exactly the same. the reason we just heard international law is that pesky thing that gets in the way all the time to, you know, i want to, i want to tap into your expertise here. when you and i on our, our podcast, the goggle that's, that's on locals. and you, you know, something about these kinds of false flag operations, you know, something about these misinformation wars because you know, a whole lot about the breakup of the former yugoslavia. and you've told me repeatedly this is like saying the same bad movie. again, we're going to a little bit of detail. that's right. it is they just all over again. what was fascinating in the case of your to solve it, was that every time there seem to be either some crucial united nations security

council meeting coming up all the piece, negotiations when making real progress. and then the agreement seems to be on the horizon. every time there was a massacre. you loan, behold, now, you know, there's a marketplace. there were no less than 3 massacres during those 2, those 3 years of the was. and each time it happened was a crucial strategic moment. and as soon as it happened bone, everybody get all the media, all of the you, the bill of the political, it has a government to solve the subs that the subs amongst those, the subs are evil. we've got to bomb the subs now. now the united nations inspectors on the grounds that were really very sure, i mean, it doesn't look very unlikely. but those voices will still just as the, the weapons inspectors in syria and duma were also silenced. and he said the

politicians, you know, just sounded off the media, we're happy to both this. so we have the ma call him and then we have right check in the cost of all that we have red, renews. all of these were very careful operation. and then of course we had libya got off, he's about to commit genocide. and so we need to stop estimating genocide. and then all the stories about feeding biographies troops in order to commit mass race. this is the psychological war. the west is very good and there are going to be a lot more of this now in the ukraine. i mean we can just be sure that every few days we're going to get in all the one in other oh, massacre. all this rocket land and other children's hospital oh, on college expenses, just be blown up. i mean, the west knows how to play this game in the, you know, the, one of the reasons why not only is this a cover story for intentionally provoking rushed into

a military like that. it's really well documented. we don't have to talk about it a great lengthy or, but i mean, the soft flags, atrocities, war crimes. that's all to explain to public, to the west. why energy prices are going up and why there could be flown shortage in all other kinds of bi change chain issues here. because we, you, we all have to sacrifice for what they call the democracy. which should be a topic for a separate program because it's not mean, you know, this is not panama from duras. it's not yes. and this is a g 20 company. that is an integral part of the global economy. and the blow back, it is only just beginning here. how long do you think people who say yeah, i'm going to wrap it, but the ukrainians, a country they only heard about 6 weeks ago. go ahead. i think not for as long as the imperial is the whole thing, i know they can't keep this level of hysteria for long and the long that i try to

keep it. the more people will grow to be uninterested in the whole thing, because the reality of what's happening in their lives is much more important to them. and you have to be in quite a privileged position to be saying, i don't mind if the price is of my fuel goes on. i don't mind if the price of my food goes up in reality is you know, since cove it and the crash that came just before cove. it, you know, the troubles of the working people in the west are only getting worse. and that was before this latest escalation in the trade war that's really starting to rebound in europe. i think german workers in particular are going to be some of the 1st to say we've had enough of this. i actually saw some footage of a german kind of car. what would equal like procession in berlin, like a protest. thousands of cars with russian flags. you know, of german people saying we are not for this bull. you know, and the, the way that you're, you know, europe industry, european prices,

european energy costs are going to skyrocket. already have started to, is going to massively rebound on the people. and the war crimes narrative itself, i think, is going to fall apart. when russia starts to release the evidence that it is carefully gathering, you know, having cleared the as of fascists out of mary paul and liberated the people there from the i and heal. they have started to very carefully collect evidence of what these guys have been doing, what kind of crimes of the committing for how long, who they get their orders from, who they get their equipment from. those trials of ukrainians in ukraine are going to be extremely, extremely eliminate. tell viewers of this program heard here from jobs because she's absolutely right. the, they've been watching these people commit crimes against humanity in the dumbass for 8 years. i know exactly who they are. they know where they are and they will find justice. ok, they will meet just this year. but until we, before we get there towards, you know,

this is just an elite topic. this is an elite war. this is in league emotion. ok. they give you 2 and a few other bands got together to raise money. i mean, i'm really, you know, kind of bizarre myself. i mean, you know, you know, you would be a lease call you, you get on stage and you do your act for them. ok. and everybody feels good, where the money goes to one of the most corrupt countries, which even, you know, and even in the think tanks in the west said that before this conflict of the obviously now it is someplace of, of great virtue and not criminality and best go ahead. yes, it really is. i mean, over the weekend, we have a bill and we're still on the line and they visit you great analysis that we have to win this war on the battlefields in your brain. and i was, he wasn't around the doc foreign policy. personally,

you is essentially declaring war on russia. we're going to fight against russia in your friends. and then when we're still on the line with your fight is outside of the inside isn't exactly the european. the says in a way, you know, when did that happen when, when, when did it turn out that ukraine was somehow by any fact what elections we've had with the elections in hungary. and so they're both of which you the kind of the winning down to this explicitly said, hey, you know, include me out. i, you know, i, we don't have anything to do with this. and then we've got the french election, the media trying to spin this every which way all micro been absent without leave, you know, you know, that's why he's not doing so well. but the fact is that pretty much every candidate who's running in the french election wants to be out of nato, and is complaining bitterly about effect of this war on the living standards of the

french every day that the french workers was suffering because of this level they did not want to extend our involvement and we, and even in germany, you know, with a traffic like always, i mean, everyone is saying you want destroying our economy. our pride enjoyed our bootstrap wounded, this war is destroying it. so where is there any support? anywhere for increasing your european or nato involvement in you. great. well, we're almost out of here. you know, i mean, they're, they're the big talk from the big honchos is that, you know, we have to pull in ukraine into, into the e. u. well, if this continues, i think a lot of members, b, e, you want to get out of this organization here. unfortunately, that's all the time we have a want to thank my guest in brussels and in budapest watching us next time, remember, ah,

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