equality of men and races, so that's what we witness today, and that is very, very long. because last time we witnessed that that ended up very, very badly close to world. tatiana duncan lanka, russia is deputy permanent representative to unesco many thanks for your time. we appreciate it. thank and thank you for joining us here at the international web back in 30 minutes with the latest one is a with me only welcome to worlds apart. when it comes to the russian church relationship,

one phrase that immediately comes to mind is keep your friends close and enemies even closer. having fought more wars between them than any other pair of countries in your asia, moscow and anchor i once again involved in a very intricate dance over ukraine. what is truck is tag there? well, to discuss, i'm now joined by use of all of our returns carlo of the turkish army and the security analyst on that is great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time . thank you very much. i get it from your recent writing that you'll find rushes actions in ukraine. pretty distasteful. you called it the returned oak russian tsar isn't suggesting that it was more about gobbling up the land and securing the country seat national interests. john turkish troops for a number of years have been present in syria, which is also so we're in state, your army conducted a sounds super operations there. despite the very clear jack objections of the

city government, what's the difference here been defending its interest in syria and russia defending it's interesting in ukraine. 30 not started the inmate syria because there are numerous terrorist attacks which is very certain by everyone that is not an issue. this is a certain issue, a accepted by everyone 30 is being attacked by p k y p g forces from the border. for this isn't the turkish operations on the more little syria is limited on the with to a 25, you know, meet their stuff from florida in order to secure the area and turkish troops are not securing the area about the sodium ports. us now are securing area which call themselves as it pretty story in our me, what it was in the turkish operations. let's say on the just the,

i think the border security with a very limited depth inside the sodium border. not an operation. you know, the car killer, i left for the mosque was on the other side. but what is it that i'm sure you remember? and i remember that for sure is a workers fund and i cover that more from the ground. it is true that the for now the trick is present. melcher isn't limited to about, i think $15000.00 trucks and it's mostly alongside the truck is going, but used to be much larger. and as you know, i'm sure you've heard of the russian allegations supported by the satellite images jerky was running a lot of time. well, what should i say contraband oil operations in that country. its presence is presence, not only a military, most commercial presence and political presence used to be much larger in the french, don't you think so? jackie has a other than the mid throw inside. storia is also limited areas

that are located near by the border. so the main difference between them is about securing the border. for example, let's give you an analogy at moscow. say is that if you create a part of the space. so a nato does. the nato armament, including emanation sacramento systems will be as close as 500 kilometers to moscow. and it is a huge security problem from the perspective of russia. this can be discuss about maybe russia is right. but can you imagine that if 500 kilometers is a huge tract, so the security off russia, which ma'am we share might be acceptable. how can turkey let the y p

g force, which is sort of the, especially by the united states just on the border, which is shooting every day to the turkey cities is acceptable. you mentioned eva, and i know that president arizona, as well as many turkish and military analysts, commented on leaders, present the american presence in syria as detrimental to check the security in the united states are nominally allies, russia and the united states are not l. i stand straight adversaries. that's written in all the strategic documents, at least as far as the american military doctrine goals. do you think that russia should have ignored made us increasing presence in ukraine? not only at present in terms of training soldiers, but also military present, sending arguments, conducting all sorts of psychological operations. what have you, i person said for in many different platforms, death crisis in between. you,

craig and russia could me proof beforehand if the ukraine egg, our mom, and it is over show, has a little sensitivity about what was going on in that area for that reason. i certainly agreed that gradient also shows good bill is before the war has started and the claim that they will not be a particle natal that's clear. and then throughout the war, i said it not only in your tv channel, in many different tv channels that the war could be proactive. but it has me motivated by the last a love that they will be a part of nato and european union. and new zaleski government is the motivated, high the by the rest of them. and if they didn't took in the lesson

from the georgia south and the guy of ukraine and ukrainians is giving a life less, especially in the european union, united states policies and the united unity of nato. for this reason, i don't believe that russia has some security concerns, as far as that nato is not france allies off the russia, russia. but those alaska government is being highly motivated and they do to gain a lesson from his story. i want to ask you about another comment of yours is elijah resurrection of russian. zara expansion. isn't your suggestion? and i'm quoting you here in europe and all the countries will undoubtedly still depression much more from now on. what exactly do you have in mind?

from my point of perspective, if the security concern of russia is over ukraine is opening a way to the invasion of ukraine. and if the invasion becomes successful, then why that won't be any security threats from the bulk of to the russia, a welcome country or the baltic countries with you mentioned, they are part of me though they're officially part of the major in russia. i mean, i think one of the distinctions between, you know, military analysts and all the other kinds of analysts is that really to people tend to take into account. you know, they can, the capacities of various actors to go outside enough ration, given the scale of the challenge of russia and ukraine. you know, the military challenges, social challenge, you know, all the western sanctions associated. do you think russia has any resources,

let alone motivation evade? as you suggested, the baltic states or to even look aggressively that way? for the, for that issue, i should take a look at what is the whole new site. when i read the newspapers relate to those issues. when i read the comments out, there are many, are presented. so duma also there are many party leaders inside the russia which are saving their goal is to prom and turn back to the border of night night to so my cell for that reason it turned back to the night night to so and then why russia does not take into consideration that the baltic countries and the eastern european countries also shoot me off natal. i'm also reading the russian newspapers, and there are many,

many hours to suggest that russia should not try to undermine i ukraine's sake that ukraine needs to remain a sovereign state with certain cavities. always the crime is not going back and there will be some independence or some special regime on like some, some special rules of functioning for the non bus region. but there are many russians who believe that russia has a bio state, people, ukraine as an independent country. i just want to point out that you know, it be opinions that you're reading is not the only one that exist here. little tell you that are keeping the crania is a very high, a safe, let's say a human get very high, low columns position. so we're going by station might be a solution for the problem, which i also wrote that to my newspaper in the newspaper because compromising requires her so i have no idea if rational side except the high note

on, on premium box, which is officially connected to the ukraine, but it has a very high autonomous status, which has its own troops on putting a man about connected to the trade, and then my net. net my to resolve the solution. but i also you, should you my right so that if the ukrainian site will accept this is not certain because then our the ukrainian side is ready to accept some issues. there are many bethany was coming from the area, lack the butcher for that reason, i am very clear that also you can find that in my twitter account. i said that from now long if there are some shooting. thank links from death mom and

on daryl me. some suspects who is trying to promote peace in the ukrainian side, which i am stating less because that's the ether message which i shared with the publish was very open. it was before the butcher, just after i haley, the butcher video started to spin over to the international media. then i said, aha, someone who is not wanting the piece you said your grade is again on the stage. for that reason, i can believe that some compromises may bring the piece, but as mr. laross said, after the poke, you stumble, the ukrainian side start to bring some extra issues to look a boat, which i understand that he is again,

being motivated by the rest in order not to accept what the russia is all for. now, you know, and i will answer about the issue because the issue that i wrote about the return of char, is not the same. what you are telling now, or what they mean, i'm telling. now i'm quoting from your article where you can just say that rashid motivated by again, rather than security interest. yeah, yes. if russia has time for those issue for this is the history, every country is eager to turn back to it is moved off base. i don't understand this perspective, it's just doing very western dominated, you're suggesting that russia is leaving in the past and it wants to recreate itself. weighs as far as we are concerned, we'll do to the future, the media presence. you cringe, represent a real security threat to russia. you should have nothing to do with directing

imperial. russia or the soviet union ask you with something to do with addressing media challenges. and hasn't russian been quite being patient in that regard given how stubbornly made or have moved towards it? a couple of all sorts of things are being discussed besides russia, you know, to turn back to 1997. the nato, a large major russian side should ask himself why all the less east european eastern european countries such as bulgaria, romania, paul is trying to be part of tomato. they do not want to meet together with russia. i can answer that question for you right here. because when b entered, need are made in the european union was,

are associated with prosperity. not tricky. also wanted to be part of me that people wanted to have the reading standards as in europe, that situation has changed. and even people in your brain given a choice on their security options, i'm not quite sure that they would overwhelmingly support the membership of data. if you cannot explain the nathan umbrella for their protection, for the eastern european countries on the for welfare because they felt the soviet air filter launch, they have some freights from the russia. for that reason, they want to be part of the nato and go around the they are security, especially from the russian expansion. the idea of which is coming from the soviet, you know, the prox spring and the other uprising and the soviet no pressure

or the capital steves of that. and eastern european countries. for that reason, they want to be a part of the eagerly because of the phrase of russia expansion again to their home . that's the, another issue. 30 is also part of the, as you said, if you take a look at my turkey became a part of nato. we can go back and me can find that mr. malo cove, the minister of foreign affairs, in the soviet time, clearly demanded some lance from turkey in 1940. what is it? he put turkey himself to be a part of the nato for this isn't russia? turkey, eastern european countries, best ukraine. everybody should learn from the history. so, so what i believed that russia should make them really

is that russia bad luck polls that threat for those comm fees. well miss around by that we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments state you mm. mm hm. they'll ship it with just like of literally a muscle around noon. she kitty doesn't being an extension on a nurse to me as possible. mama, gus goose, get somebody to look at that. i to his ashley of a dc. wanted with one to do please call position to pick. did you bring up the key chain of crimes in order for furnished or something to do that week?

are at that point that that might be worth it, a little grain week i have them ah, ah, welcome back to with all of our that returns colonel of the church army and security. and i was talking about the station in ukraine. all those countries that you mentioned a tricky because turkey has a very singular, very specific security poster. it's a, it's, it's pretty unique when all the other countries who have invested, who have outsourced that security to the united states. having seen what your brain has done and ukraine has extended it so we can, ada was left one and one with russia. it's not being defended by nita. how

do you think the culture of those eastern european countries will change from now on? do they have really have confidence in native security terms made those security deterrence is mean test that's with evasion of ukraine so far? the nato scott on these and especially united states, got our european union countries go on to the ukraine, didn't work, as i said, it is in foreclosure in the georgia. so you can see beforehand but who see because they have no state who traditions if they had some faith traditions, like in the past, i'm on the stand that the bus will never be together with them. if they let you on with your counseling by yourself, that is the history that shows it's very and you are by you are all

with those countries is sensing lots of tracks from the russian. a gretchen inside you create for that reason, the russian overshoot russian media also love in order to proceed that for los is that russia does not have an intention of meeting those countries. i don't here expect most of the russian media have been cut off. when i was waiting them or anything is very difficult, and i don't think russia i can, i bring it criticism. this book, news was lost on a time. spelling that the international media insights are key was on the pressure . but then it comes to present. now, me can say that only the turkey is the country that the international media, including the russian international media just is

a lation of russian economy to some degree from the perspective of europe, which my country never parks bates them understand the book. but who can tell me that poll, slow and low is out of the curriculum. this is unacceptable. this is a typical restaurant of standing population. and you know that from the history, this is the issue that i also end, okay? all the time in my country at tv shows and also in my daily newspaper step, there are 2 pillars of the turkish foreign policy. one of them is the international law that it cannot be acceptable, the invasion of one country, but the other site or the sake of europe don't. you shouldn't isolate and put

some relocate to the russian side. you should keep are with relations. well, they're one of the situation is insight you credit for that reason. i do believe that having looked relations with russia like in this area, we do not understand in every aspect in storia, we do not understand and a really each other. it every inch of in libya in the how courses, but it won't need us to put in and mr. law is successful for finding a solution area. when we look at that relationship and then put in an area on it or ration tricky. it's a very complicated relationship with fraud, but as you said, that your countries and that you really have been able to find difficult compromises. and a few years back when question was asked specifically about and on. and it was right in the middle, the syrian war shortly after the church shut down the russian plane. he said

that if he and mister and on agreed on something there was a hi chantelle that'd be realized that you could trust areas on or is the same way to mr. lansky or it, if that meeting ever comes about, agree on anything, can you really deliver what he promises? you know, to keep your promise, you should mean depend on what happens in pakistan. you can see that just for the sake of visiting moscow, the president in ron ha, now beach couple down by an interaction which is supported by the american appreciate. that is very clear because you know, it's from our story. for that reason. if you ask me to put it, we'll keep it as promise. news. also believe that mr. zalesky will keep this promise. i cannot say yes. why?

because i do not believe that the last to go mister landscape is very free to take is on decisions. that is the issue that we should discuss in the next coming days for the peace process talking. as mr. larosa, i mentioned a couple of minutes ago, says that zaleski government, starting to break new issues to the table after the stumble funnel. so this is unacceptable for that reason mr. avalon is keeping this promises, but he pay a lot, especially in his struggle insight or let me you an example. if mr. long was not successful, keeping it as leadership during the 515 july could that i had them. mr. long will not be able to sustain regulation with mr. miller than their book in traffic

history. many prime minister has been coupled on from the government. the american intervention isn't just because keeping with relation of the soviet bye and nothing changed. look at pakistan. look at that. you like them inside 30 for that reason. turkey paid lots of price in order to establish if free foreign policy and now we are getting the advantage that turkey is a long time establish relations. we must go. now you take a look at what the less, the turkish opposition clearly and locates got all your relations, not talk with russia. apply all the same to forward russia. what happened inside? i'm gonna, you know, very well the, and this is as me kill the owner, isn't that the russian ambassador has been as

a snake in the capital city of turkey in just to break relations with relations with russia. that's a, that's a very important issue to read because tricky, obviously plays not only diplomatic or plays a role. busy in this company, but it also has a very important military role as the guardian on the, on the street. i know that a minister of defense, a tricky will not allow native military ships into the black sea. he also speculated that he, he said that he can exclude the possibility that all those mines that have been appearing in the black sr, the turkish border have been brought there by those who want neither ships to go through the trade in value even contemplated. i wonder what is the state of trust between turn can need or if your own minister defines allows for. * thought that you know, some of you need to,

alice can bring several 100 minus 2 to your sure. ah, misery votes. and also the mines which came to the most source is a huge threat for the international trade. but before the war has started, one of the former commander of the nato, which is responsible from the defense of the europe, as clearly says that turkey should close the straits, all even look trading ships. and i said, we should take a look at the history in 1942 german ships trespassed from the source and the darlena, and warmed the cities of russia. and me engage a war, b feel, rush hand of them on empire. and they asked me last night to thousands of our soldiers. why? because there were 2 adventurous, 3 adventurous guys who was ruling thought them on empire. and they were not

a countable today, a nation. and i asked this time you have now no chance because mr. i long the now we're left matthews, because closing straight even for the trading and ships means that turkey should fight with russia, ukraine and other black sea sharing. sports ism, i do believe that nato is trying to be a part inside the black sea, but there is a monster convention which turkey clearly applied that convention which to nato countries. and the less does not want. durkee applies that launch up online. she over sheila, turkey is an ally within a thought, but i can say that in 2022 turkey knows very well that

in every security issue, turkey should on the defense, is skunky. it is on force miss l. about that we have to leave it here. thank you very much for your inside. i really need it. thank you very much. and thank you for watching. called to sir again next week. all the part with mm. a

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