ah, hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the west, his essentially declared all out war on russia. instead of calling for a negotiated end of the conflict, washington, london, and brussels are looking to sustain the ukranian war effort. thus we need to ask, what is the west policy goal in all of this? i crossed, sucking escalation. i'm joined by my yes, michael maloof in washington. he's a former pentagon senior security policy analysts in raleigh. we have re, mcgovern, he's a former cia analyst, and in bath we have bruce got gun. he is a piece and justice activists cross that rules and effect, gentlemen. so that means you can jump in any time you want. okay, michael, let me go to you 1st here. i'm, you know, ever since the, the conflict started on,

on february 24th. there's, there's been this a home, a maney about how we can help ukraine. there's not much about talking about how to bring peace. okay. so how, what is the policy end here is there, have they thought about it? because given recent history, they haven't thought about the law of unintended consequences, or is there a game plan here? or they just winging it. go ahead michael. you know, i think there is a game plan and it's not to bring peace. i think an, an ukraine is just cod in this, in the, in a much larger strategic picture, a, by the, by an administration. and as a mere cons, it what it really is is not only to contain russia, but now what from what i gather it is to overthrow the government in moscow itself . that is the goal. but what it's also doing is trying to compete with what they see now emerging is a, is a multi polar world order in which jeff ascom,

beijing and other countries are under the s c o. the us shanghai corporation organization are forming their own independent, multi world order and, and as a concept and independent financial system. and that's, that's important. and it's a challenge to that western dominated leadership and, and, and so called dollar world currency that we're seeing. and this is a threatening ah, to the stability of a, of the west. and we're already seeing cracks in the e. u. we're seeing it in nato. and certainly with the very weak leadership exhibited by our president biden. r a we see an effort now an emphasis to use the ukraine and incident as a way to propel this of the build up of this multi polar world order. and it's not stopping. it's actually, well, if i get as i go to radio i,

i agree with everything you say, but ray, i'm in the cards. i have to say is a, the 3rd world war. i mean, you can't discount that. i mean, i remember the late steven cohen was on my program many years ago, and he talked to about this and i kind of pushed back, but stephen cohen was right all along, go ahead re cause nuclear war is a possibility with this strategy that michael. so well laid out, go ahead break or picking up on what michael and you have just shed peter. there's been a teutonic friday, and so there there's been a tech tonic change. and what the old soviet used to call the world correlation of forces. now you can talk about a multi pola world, but it's, it's really bipolar and both census of the word right that the west and i would added stuff who h quest,

the white west. ok against china, against russia, against india, against south africa, against a gimme a break. this is a, a new constellation of forces. it really is at tech tonic shift, and worst of all, the people advising biden shame, no wiser on this than when they told him exactly a year ago or they're, or she's got this great big problem. china is squeezing russia and have this long water rushes got this stretch. gimme a break. it's a 180 degrees away from that now. and china after all is pu tunes insurance policy. okay, is got a big brother now who gene does so even if, even if his military campaign does not go as well as he expects, he could fall back on this major ally. and it is an ally now. and there is a child as an ally, not because it's best friends with birching,

but because it's next in line for got in line. it's nelson. exactly. next in line here. bruce, i mean, as a peace activist, i mean, how do you see the administration's policy? because, you know, they are on the margins they'll talk about, well, that will give none of zalinski all the in the room. he needs to make a negotiated piece. but when we've had this forum and buroso is one in and, and turkey all went nowhere. i had had a little, i'm maybe i will be for foolish, but i wanted to have hope there was some kind of, uh, negotiated and could come, but they don't seem to be interested in that at all. so maybe they're more interested in pumping as much weaponry as possible into a country that has no hope of winning this military conflict at all. bruce, go ahead o. in the rand corporation study goals, overextending and unbalancing, russia. right? that was published in 2019. they clearly lay out the program as to destabilize

the rushes, borders creating chaos, essentially burning down ukraine to the ground. in order to force as a believe regime change in moscow, i think it's sick, it's dangerous. i've just learned that the youth in the u. k. a nuclear you s nuclear weapons are going to go back into lake and heats air force space. so it's pretty clear to me what's, what the strategy is here, which is to destroy the russian federation, to allow the breakup of russia and a smaller countries. so that the resource extraction corporations can grab rushes, vast resource base, and at the same time, or destroy this momentum that's already been referred to, of creating this multi polar world, rather than having the u. s. b mister big of the planet. and so this is

a what we're facing now. it's the most dangerous moment and my life. and i'm really quite worried about it. and what you said about the possibility of going to world war 3 with nuclear weapons. i think it's a, it's very possible, it's conceivable. i think that washington is desperate and they're playing with fire. yeah. but michael immune, you know that the corridors of power here. i mean, the same people that designed the cakewalk, apparently for iraq. ah, you know, and then we have syria, we have libya, we can go, you know, yeah, i mean, we go on and on these the same people. so i mean, why would the outcome, tragedy failure be any different? michael explained to me. well it's that's, that's the of them. that's why we iraq the invasion of in 2003 was probably the beginning of the end. as far as i'm personally concerned. that's it from me personally, but, but to, for 5, for that that policy. it was a, it was almost

a preemptive policy, and we're now seeing that started again, look if, if the, by the administration and the neo cons, i would add to be democrat republic. and it doesn't matter if they are so ensconced with in our policy of formulation and decision making system it's, it's like a victoria newland, for example. now, the under secretary of state for local affairs and her husband, who is a robert kagan, the a, the, the near con of near cons. and a, that's a combination. and it, i, if the by the administration truly wanted piece, they wouldn't have told her zalinski just ignore the men squan meant to agreements . they were, they wouldn't, they were, can take, they would stop of the flow of arms in order for there to be a basis or a sit down for discussion and have a freezing of a hostilities in place that's not happening. and, and that it's, it,

it just accentuates and reinforces this concern that we're expressing, of which nuclear a nuclear weapon exchange would be the ultimate. and that would be a disaster for the world in a re, ever, ever since the military operations started at all to western media and politicians, you know, wearing our ukranian flag on your lapel or women doing their manner cure and the flag in all the l. the i, as in congress walking around and where they're wearing hoodies, i don't know what it was. okay. but this policy that the west is pursuing is not in the interest of the ukrainian people because they're the ones on the short end of the stick of this here. it's never really a talked about it the in that way. and i find that terrific because i'm like a lot of people to talk about ukraine. i've been there many, many times. and it breaks my heart, seeing all this, quote unquote good will actually ending up in devastation. because this is a policy maneuver. and when,

whenever they get that it's going to walk away and other people going to have to pick up the pieces as usual rate go head like that. and if i have been in ukraine also, and i can identify with the suffering ukrainian people, they are all like so many other folks like the courge and pawns of history. the u. s. could n dish, as a lensky is a desperately trying to get some more aide for a while, so that it can be blown up by russian forces. ah, zalinski is not his own man. he not only has the u. s embassy to report to but he cannot be a free agent because of the nazis and do not hesitate to acknowledge that there is no way. thank you. ok, keep going, keep going. keep going on that issue because they, they, they, they do not want to talk about it. they want to dismiss it. it's very real. go ahead one minute before we go to the break break please. leah,

the answer of course is that we need to push for an immediate cease fire. that's not going to happen. ah, a pu gina is going to go forward now with his plan a to liberate money will bull and the other parts of the eastern, southeastern ukraine, with the forces he has in place. should he failed to do that. he can always count on china and i will add this. it is not beyond possibility that china was stirrup, some trouble in the south china sea, or course from taiwan. i'm not seeing the going to invade taiwan, but the prospect of a 2 front war are r neal kind of advisors, so crazy as they would not realize that this is a real possibility now, which has not existed before. and that needs to be avoided. if by any stratagem we can devise well, if that's because i had to money is being question and this is something that mike labs talked about so many times instead of dealing with the world that it is they

want to deal with the world, the weight they want to make at you gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on escalation. stay with our team. ah ah ah

oh, look forward to talking to you. oh, that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at that point, obviously is to place trust or rather than fear i would like to take on various charlene with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect his own existence with a

welcome back to cross stock where all things were considered on peter labelle. true, mad. you were discussing escalation. ah. okay, bruce, i want to go back to you in bath. i mean one of the things, it's very important. i mean i, i love to talk about geo politics a lot, but if we, if you don't mind, we could talk a little about domestic dip political discourse. this whole affair is, is brought about a new mccarthyism. if you, if you say anything, anything that was said on this program, we say in public, i don't, i can't imagine what will happen to you because i've been, i've been completely canceled um of my entire work on r t on youtube has been deleted. i'm a non person except for a my own platform here because of my opinions here. this is very, very dangerous. here. it before february 24th. hardly any one american knew about

ukraine, even fewer could find it. but now that it's a litmus test, go head bruce. yeah, i think that's a really important point. i'm feeling it myself. many of my friends are feeling it as well. this new mccarthyism. i think it's the right way to describe it. if you say the wrong thing, you get d platforms, we've seen scott ritter kicked off twitter, justin in recent time. and it's, it's getting worse all the time. and the, even the so called peace movement is extremely divided. now, with essentially between the anti imperialist and the liberal democrats, i think the liberal democrats of are coming out like a fierce attack dogs trying to protect their president, trying to protect their narrow and shrinking, ah, a future in the house, in the senate. so it's really getting nasty, but i think this is what the ruling oligarchs in the west watt they want divided us

. they want divided europe because through that division, they're able to control and move forward with these steps towards a world war, as they're cutting back on human need spending and increasing military spending in all of these places. and it is indeed a, a war on the global south. any one that dares stand up in the other parts of the world, it refuses to attack and vilify and sanction russia and china. it's, it's, it's really a harsher time. a one thing i'm really interested in seeing is, as the still facilities there and mary, opal near the port are liberated from the nazis eyes. it's going to be interesting to see how many nato, yep, a military officers and enlisted people, retired military people from nato countries. come pouring out of there with these

efforts to rescue. now some of these unknown people, i think it really shows again, this sign of desperation on the part of u. s. nato. they're really worried about the people around the world finding out this is actually a nato war against russia. there is no doubt about it. nato directed nato train, nato funded nato, armed and growing. by the day. you don't my, i'm glad i'm glad that bruce brought that up. michael, because when i look at news coverage over the last 6 weeks or so, the fact that russia was against nato expansion barely just barely makes it in to the, to the they, they dialogues of some of these conversations. i see on cable tv, i'm thinking like douglas mcgregor, that will mention it. okay, erin, my table mentioned at max blumenthal a wrangler. greenwald will mention it, but everybody else see it. it's everything is out of context. everything has no

context. nothing happened before february 24th. and that is the problem with the way western publics are being told about this conflict. go ahead, michael. yeah, that's the reason that that's the problem and the failure of the west not to read history because those a grant there were agreements to that effect there at least a half a dozen of them are to respect in the visibility of not that is not to increase the strength and the west at the expense of the east and, and that included movement, server nato. and at the end, the word of 3 presidents totally ignored and, and but, but because they were just agreements and just a word assurances or they can easily be broken. and we saw that even with the creation of the ukraine itself as a sovereign nation in 1990, it was supposed to remain non line. and that was in their charter, in their, in,

in the document that the, that, that, that they signed about be independent. and then it was in 2017 that they opted to put the, the nato joining of nato into their constitution. and that was again at the pressure of washington. and because of, of, of what happened in 2014 by victoria newland and, and, and then vice president joe white just to point out just to point out to our viewers in february 2014. there was an illegal overthrow of the democratically elected government. in ukraine, and in a re, if i go to you there again what we're fighting for yoga democracy in ukraine and hopefully he once had mentioned that there was a demo democracy there as fragile as it was for ukraine. it was there, but no one wants to talk about that the antecedent to what's going on right now. go ahead re well, thanks for mentioning that peter, because it doesn't appear in the archives of the washing posts or on any of the

cable channels. yeah. it was the most belated who in history advertised on youtube. oh, place, 18 days before it happened. okay. that was february 22nd, 2014. that's what started all this stuff most recently. so if people don't know that, and i have to tell you that the main problem, as you pointed out, is the malnourishment of the american people. they tend to believe all or so i have, i have former colleagues, astute analysts, who by the, the, the butcher, a butcher, you know, the butcher massacre without agreeing that, hey, they really ought to be an investigation. don't you think? no, no, no, no, no of it. so it's gotten pretty bad. and more important at putin looked on at this, and he sees, as he has said many times and he knows from personal experience, presidents are not their own person. they're not their own men. so to speak. ok,

so he's had experience with obama. they worked out a ceasefire for 1111 months in syria. and 8 days later us air force rated syrian earth fixed positions. so when, when putting looks at bitin, and he has said this is as u. s. foreign policy as hostage hooton's word, hostage to domestic requirements in the political scene in the u. s. was, i mean we have the mid terms coming up in november. nothing's going to happen. except that by the need to show his strength. so he'll poor more arms $800000000.00 more the arms into you gray. they're got blown up by the russians who will get blame the rushes of course they cause they blow at these arms. now the only person here only people profiting from this, of course, other people who make arms, arms and cash, and on this a $100000000.00. and that's that mickey mac, the military, industrial, congressional intelligence media, academia,

think tank complex. it's much worse than it was under eyes were too much too much a compliment to you. raise that many, many people use that acronym right now. you're the only one that can say it though, everyone else can write it. okay. but bruce, so me, one of the things that, if we could bring a little bit closer to the u. s. and, you know, it's, it's almost a form of nation building that they want to talk about ukraine as, you know, the, the american working people in america, the middle classes in america continued to be devastated. here, you know, an $800000000.00, another $800000000.00. i mean, why can't we put that into education or health care? i mean, i, i'm just astounded how these people can print money for these nefarious reasons. and just say, and you're going to have to suffer as a result. why should they suffer these wars make people suffer and now it's come to the west. go ahead, bruce. well, it was interesting recently to see

a large protests in spain and that people are out on the streets because of increasing the inflation in gasoline prices. i think that's going to spread. and i think ultimately it's going to spread here in the u. s. as well, the biden is talking about the prudent price hikes, trying to blame all of his domestic economic failures on russia. but i don't think in the end that's going to really wash. i think the american people clearly they're brainwashed. clearly they're uneducated about all of this stuff. clearly the american people know nothing about ukraine, nor the don bass, nor the 8 years of shelling by the nazi lead ukrainian army of the people in the don bass. i been to le, god's can don ask. i've seen the graves, i've seen the burned out buildings as a result of these shells, and i can tell you when i came back from there and i tried to organize people in

this country in the united states, to speak out against the what the u. s. and nato were supporting these attacks on the don bass. i couldn't find anybody that wanted to pay any attention. but now suddenly they're all experts on ukraine with their, with their ukranian flags. so, it's going to come home here. it already is heading home and it's going to get a lot worse. no doubt about it. you know, michael, i would like to ended on the global south is already been mentioned on this program, which i think is very important. when i think of countries like india and saudi arabia, saudi arabia has its own regime type is unfortunate. it is, but it is a sovereign country. and so you have glank and telling everybody what to do that violates their sovereignty and their interests. okay. i mean, had gemini just knows no bounds. okay. i mean, in this, i think the global south, this is a pivot point. it's time to turn away, get away from the dollar, get away from those rules, base order, whatever that means,

because no one's ever explained it to me. i think this is a, is an inflection point. go ahead, michael. yeah, well this is what you're seeing is that leaders that so called leadership the it's, it's, it's blinking and others within this administration. the still thinks the west can, can, can, can that call all the shots and that's, that's going away. the that the dollar itself is going to go away as a, as a world currency it's, it's, it's fia currency. it's not backed by anything. it's paper, it's green paper, unlike the ruble now, which is gonna be backed by commodities in gold. what we're going to see is this new trend in which you're gonna, you're gonna see the, the demise of the dollar as, as a so called world currency. and we're already seen where oil is going to be purchased and local currency. so this is a, this is a new trend and it can accelerate very, very rapidly. and just as saudi arabia goes and the u i. e, e, e, e, e goes,

so will, all the other arab countries are going to go the same route, even though they have relationships with the u. s. but that could easily and quickly diminished as they watch saudi arabia venture more toward doc, a, china and russia, because that's where the, the real money is and enough to fake money. yeah, because he's got people on route want real value, not rules based order of whatever that means. or i gentlemen, that's all the time we have what i want to thank my guests in washington, raleigh, and in bath. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time, remember, prostitute, girl ah, 3 little things with you. i think

both, both the models you need to do, you both got nothing to do with a, with a lot of them bought a a with the personal number. the of that with

a section is very easy to make. if you are very good at it, for instance, if you work in the media and you know how to do it, you can do a very good job and manipulating public opinion. you can paint white as black. you can totally trust reality. and sometimes not even by lying, sometimes just by making what you want to pay or putting things in a session border or putting human emotions into one side of the story while not giving a rational analysis of the whole picture. is your media reflection, reality a world

transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community? are you going the right way or are you being led to direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in this challenge. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful. very difficult

time to sit down and talk a russian troops take control over most of the ukrainian 50 matter. you pull civilians begin to leave the basement and receive aid after weeks. they're fighting with an investigation reveals the legit plans by the ukrainian security service to assassinate dylan. his political opponents, allegations of fortune and detention center. we speak to the author behind the investigation the us says it won't return the frozen russian assets of private individuals back to the owners even when the conflict ukraine ends.