there are nato troops in the baltic countries and in poland across the border from bella ruse. and so i don't think there's any significant escalation of tension in the region. sweden doesn't border russia at all, so there's no direct issue there. finland, of course, has a very lengthy border of more than 800 miles with russia. but nato troops will definitely be stationed in those countries on probably a sort of rapidly deployable, but rotating task force. i don't envision any significant new nato basing or military deployments in those countries that would take time and we'd largely depend on the scale and scope of any russian reaction with us all for this i, for more stories, an in depth analysis do head over to r t dot com on our telegram channel. my name is peter scotts and he's been great, happy with those. thank you. ah,

ah luis to come to the russian state will never be. i'd stivers, i'm phoning the most landscaping divest with eclipse in 55 with. okay, so mine is 25 has been anyone else with will ban in the european union? the kremlin, ca, yep, machine. the state on russia for date and square r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with

me. a, [000:00:00;00] a with dime african retention. you're what you're going on the and the team and i will be back soon with a brand new look despite nature nation and he, you censorship. but until then, we'll be showing some of your favorite shows of the season so far coming over the show while we're a strong to fight 1st political life this weekend may have opposed charging those

involved. the world is but hours away from commemorating a 10 minute massacre. bloody sunday, we investigate after the vatican last week beatified as priests slaughtered by alleged so called us back to death squads in el salvador. what should we expect from the country supreme court, opening up a new investigation to the murders of jesuits clerics that inspired st. oscar romero himself monitored 45 years ago. we speak to an expert witness in the case of a similar coming up in today's going underground. but 1st we are on the eve of the 50th anniversary of bloody sunday, which sparked global outrage against the british government for parachute regiment, soldiers killing unarmed civilians. and also, no one has ever faced trial and bras. johnson's really good government has been considering legally immunizing all soldiers involved in atrocities. joining me from cook's down northern island is ship fan. m p for middle sta. francie malloy? thanks so much traffic coming back on. i mean people were waiting this week for sue

gray in an inquiry. of course, when it comes to bloody sunday, there was a witchery inquiry that people may have forgotten about. tell me and remind us about what blood they bloody sunday was and the whitewash committed by british civil servants and officials after the atrocity. well, thank you very much for the invitation to come on. a really sunday was our change in our parish. political same aid was a massive change because for the 1st time and the charade champion british soldiers had, i went in and opened fire a with lay branch on, on, on arm civilian marching. they and they, they targets were very much in the end of april, walk in honda and han, as the song said that after time on the stamps of martin luther king iraqi had done the sam america or civil rights. and so it was

a massive change. and surprised the people. iraqi were on armed anom survey hymns, women and children families out a demand in civil rights under compressor h. i for this impact to happen. i guess it was, of course, i don't 2nd bloody sunday because in the 920 but he's on did well, i'm british to talking in co park as towards remainder of those days and that the, the war was still continuing. a bay, the british government, the british army in and during. yeah, the 1st one when churches are black and tans fide into into a, a football stadium. but i mean, i'll get to the power sheet regimented. the 2nd bar, as johnson, the prime minister has said previously, that as regards who should take responsibility for it, there would be quotes, there would be a storm of utter fury. if 4 men would charge for killings while the i r a gets away with it. when of course, the letter i read nan, linen shirt, long periods of time in jail. thousands of them and long cation english presents

and irish prints on a cross word. a republicans were actually convicted in jails. some of men on by it skeptical grounds, unforced, compassion, and torture on all the rest of that goes a legacy off of the british control. and iron is so the, the fact that nobody has been held responsible for 30 sunday, whenever 14 people died already sunday, the 13 on the day on one followed after. and nobody has been found guilty of that. it is by clear from the way jury tribunal, 1st of all, it was a told her arse, a on and things could have been sorted. i, i, what i was, the problem is that the british government find it difficult to convex george's for doing what they were sent out to do by that are to be at that time. and it's quite clear that and ration this come iraqi bombarding shape. well, of course, following what is often you're in, but no, no excuse for any kind of atrocity. and you're going to have to tell me which prime

ministers and tell me about the commander on the day frank kits. and he has been in cyprus in bahrain, in a number of places in kenya. famously for trying to destroy the independence movement that he's alive, we invite him on, on the show, he was commodity one parent also involved in valley murphy, 9071. when of course, frank kitchen was the architect of all of us. not only all the shoot to kill policy which retired on buddy sunday, and by the marquee, and other parts of the north, but brain, which in the end of the collision, it were, he used to the loyalist forces, in collision with the armed force of the r and your, you see to care motors on the national table kitchen series as he put in the big is very much in the line of they strategy that out by the irish, you'd regiment mistake. and it is remarkable that the high he had never been hailed or are,

or all the atrocities of catered on the i'm south that he give and as you say, and not only in iron but around the word where he divided and conquered, where they partitioned and where the murdered people to try and put down any objections to pretty early in whatever content. maybe i went over a 100 bullets shot in 10 minutes on buddy sunday, 50 years ago, but his grace pharmacy, i boss general the trends that he read. frank kitchens book, when they're trying to counter insurgency in afghanistan and iraq, what does it make you feel that the events in bloody sunday and somehow connected to the killing, wounding, or the spacing of tens of millions of people across the middle east or west asia in the past few years, well it, it just as colonial or on the domination, not britain has try to you across the word, the empire, a story to mention what they stay instead of trying to hold on to as many areas and

testament osman, whether be based, happen in goblins to eat, to replace others, they partition increased in order to divide and conquer. they all, whether as on the salmon island or the partition in the country after the british on the 1920 that jackie then finish up on the c. m strategy on the same idea. it was some say, britain has are not to learn. but one thing that has done it has continued to do, got it done at those times. i'm right to read is colonial, ours, across the word. can you understand why the british government feels of the good friday agreement put a gotten behind all those days and the fact that any a legacy issues, if they were tried in court, might reveal that weapons were being imported from apartheid? south africa and the role of m, i 5, the building just next to the studio here. and the, the fact that the parent, the clues of behavior, according to the police ombudsman for northern ireland report, which was only released in the bus few days. when i get quite clear and just go off

the british government, i've been involved in a, in no 50 years from the early civil rights comp am i took part in the force of rice marston, california. and i was lucky if you look up a woman, one boat, right to house and right to jo, a on the british government on storm. and at that time couldn't deliver no simple demand. because to give people race or stay in the country. and they would look for jobs and stay on the right number. they had the union vote in the years to come. so they had the whole collusion. i, she has been part and parcel of the british controlled island and unable to this day. and there, of course, most recent course, no mas mom, clearly stint, that it was, collusion in the borders that collusion directed by the british government collision, implemented by the r u. c, u, d r i. and on special branch, the importation office as african americans by british agents. i think at a time,

whenever the staffing regime was come to an end and where the at the british were re army, the loyalist here. i most of the martyrs that happened on time were borders change may who happens, but in, from south africa. well, i mean, it's your defense. some says the way the army is trained way it works in the way it operates, will change significantly. what about jeremy cool of in actually, i mean, some say that he only came within 2227 votes of becoming prime minister of this country. but of course he was very active in the irish civil rights struggle. do you believe that it's a shadow stilling because of a british politics today? the politicians in parliament here cannot speak about the irish civil rights struggle for fear of security services reprisal today. i think there's also that fear within the mind, but i didn't know jeremy. i went on and john mcdonald and others within their group . paul rose was one of the key players at the time of the civil rights champion and even jim gun. and he come to darian id,

spoke in relation to ratify the wrongs that robin age. the way them whitelaw with a check understand that pro dormant went and he brought an end to storm windows. apartment stone, it no longer up armed or something assembly because they couldn't manage the proper control apart. and on a, if you get it the, the special powers actually also want to get it the, the sure to get it on the integers to internment. no ramp, often with the go ahead from the british government introduced determined which again inflicted wounds on the national people and turn people who are totally innocent and who weren't involved in any which were of course you have to remember stage. it was who i rang in operation. no really sunday and others got out would became recruitment agents for the ira because the, at what the british government were doing and i don't. and as part of the good friday agreement in my 5 are allowed to operate freely with the b s. and i, i'm going to ask about joe biden. he's famously,

some people report that his house rocks to the sound to rebel songs in the evening. sometimes obviously britain one's perspective trade deal with united states. do you think bloody sunday as a factor in jo biden's actions towards his nato ally, britain? well, i, i don't know the details. i was, he aaron went away. he was thinking isn't, but i know a irish american, the democratic party in particular. i've been a key players doesn't want to keep there and bring about the good friday agreement . and i think right across asia, america, there is the good 12 support or the national cause because they know what britain infected i and over the years to obey. no, no, there's no like the kennedys that actually had to m a richmond looking for walk because of the ashes of the british government in those early years. so it is by important the role of the ash americans and planned in waterbury for any agreement

. and in the political dimension of i can move and things look forward and i think he has made it quite clear that if he interfere with the good for a raymond, that the you, when we know trade agreement between britain on the market. and so that's of a strong lever against bars johnston at the present time. and it's a labor i think i'm rightly work and make sure that the carry out on control to make sure that the actually good for a agreement is our top purpose and not to damage in any way whatsoever. but remember, the good friday agreement hasn't been fully implemented. we need to see if fully implemented. and again, no, you are talk on years after the great for being with the same. and we still haven't got the full implementation of the good part of him. and that's up to both the british and the irish government to make sure as guarantors that they carry that out. because we do have the right to hold on irish unity. and that's been held back by the brandy many sang who stand to the present time. it will give that referendum

when i received it in for the people or not. that was one of the guarantees of the gateway agreement. it has never been there. dr. friends, who will i thank you. thank you. after the break and other nato nation atrocity, we speak to an expert witness in the reopening of an investigation into the alleged us back 989 jesuit priest masika in el salvador. all the civil can we have about to have going underground a. it isn't the day with

a lot of the life with a feller the all new those in the deal with with welcome back 100 years ago today. the 2nd federation of central america comprising latin american nations. we know today formerly dissolved after

an attempt to create a regional government and made increased u. s. influence in the region. one of those nations was el salvador, a country which later descended into a 12 year civil war reported the killing of $75000.00 civilians. one of the most notorious crimes during the war was the jesuit massacre of 1989. now $33.00, as all the salvador in supreme court has ordered the case to be reopened. after an hour returned to amnesty law prevented prosecutions. joining me now from california is a war crimes and human rights investigator of stanford university's political science and latin american studies department. professor terry lynn call. thank you so much, professor for coming on. in part, when we talked about the 50th anniversary, la matthew k killing in ireland, known as bloody sunday in the attempt for justice. why is all, salvador open this criminal investigation into events in 1989? when of course, reagan sounds accused of funding de facto death squads. i think reagan actually diff, a funded the you, the salvador and military,

which is very important because it was the salvadoran military that started at dest squads, along with some civilian allies. what they used to do is take off their uniform and then go out and kill people and then put their uniform back on. and then in the case of elma, so tay, which is the worst mask her in a latin american contemporary history. they have their uniforms on. now, that's really important because why i opened the jazz, what case? the 1st thing to understand is that the current president has formed an alliance with the military. therefore, the, to the extent that the jesuit case may or may not be opened, it will be opened on civilians and not on the military. that's my understanding. the civilians are a president of pharaoh christianity, who was president of the arena party. and the other one is it is an attorney named robert parker who was quite an enemy of the current government. so what you're

seeing here is actually the political manipulation of human rights trials because the civilians will be charged. and i very much doubt we will see any salvador and military charge, if they are, they will be very low level. if this case precedes forward i own own, on whether it actually proceeds oversee the president denies that there is anything being cooked here. you testified as an expert witness of trials in spain. you expect to be an expert witness in this one. i do not. i think that the spanish have all the evidence they need. they particularly have some of the evidence that the salvadoran government needs. if they were going to proceed with this, i actually think this trial is a way to threaten leaders of the reign of hardy, who i have particularly present in christianity. it was just for 0 revealed in the

pandora papers that he has 16 offshore accounts for a lot of quite a lot of money stashed away. and i think this is actually a way to pressure the rain a party, which the pu kelly government would like to see a disappear. i should just quickly say though i express the christiane he is already denied involvement in the killing, killing the brace, the investigation. i mean, i should, the investigation that you have, you have a felt this, that it should, it should target fort benning and georgia where i understand the alleged killers, world trend, the school of the americas. well, you can't really do that under salvadoran law or under command responsibility law. but the killing of the jesuits was ordered from the high command of the military. the high command of the military and the highest commander was president of christianity. the question is, did he order it or did the top of the military order? that's really the, the issue that was in the spanish case. he was an uninvited co conspirator. in the

spanish case, it is very clear to me, and this makes salvadoran lot different than spanish law that president christianity knew about this mask. the massacre of the jesuit priest when it happened. and he also in, was deeply involved in the cover up. that doesn't mean that he was the person who particularly ordered that according to command responsibility law, if he knew or should have known, and failed to prevent this or punish those who carried out the massacre. he is, in fact culpable. so they are going after the civilian top commander of, of military, even though he didn't really control the military. it, well, he denies wrong doing and also anything from the pandora papers indicating a alleged legality. let's just go to wilma z o d u rather just very briefly tell us

of the numbers killed the numbers of children killed. even britain abstained over emotion of you in about advocacy. mrs. thatcher was a friend of general finishes. what happened in l. mazata in 1981 in 1981, the salvadoran military. i pushed large part by the united states. i went into areas that they believed were controlled by the gorillas and they believed that every civilian that lived in those areas by virtue of their geographic location. i was a gorilla and that was never true by the way that civilians always supported whoever occupied their territory. now what happened and on the so day which is as i said, the largest massacre that we know of in latin america in the contemporary period is the atlas capital battalion of the, of the salvadoran military which was formed under, i would say

u. s to legit was not trained in this one was not trained in the united states that came later under the jesuits. but what happened here is they invaded the town of elma, so tay, the town was peaceful. it was unarmed the gorillas had left the area cuz they had a great deal of for warning that this was coming, but in the town of elma, so day there was a story that the people in elma so day as the largest town would be safe. so lots of people fled into elma, so it's a much more than the actual population of the city of the ville is the little village. and there were about a 1000 people who fled there for safety from the salvador and military. when they got there, the military came in, it had everybody, almost a 1000 people lie down that they could, everybody, they could find. they pulled him out of their houses. they had them lie down in the

plaza, and then very strangely, this is never happened before. they let them go back to their homes that night. it was very clear. they were waiting orders because there were more people in the town . they expected. the orders came the next morning, they pulled everybody out again at dawn. they separated the men, women, and children. it took the men away 1st, they told the women that they were taking the men to for safety and they killed every one of them. then they kill the women. and then they kill the children. the numbers that we work with are approximately 1000 people. of which 553 are under the age of 12 or are very young use. so more than half were children. if you see if you go to elma, so tay, what you see that we have tried to do is list the names of the children and the

very 1st forensic digs which happened during the peace agreements in 1992. but there was only enough money to take up that $1.00 of the sites where a $124.00 children and all of these were babies. they were very young or dug up. and i'm the sentences of re purported and of, and the children being hang, do you know, we've had to evolve a national security advisers on this show. we're vidalia abrams on he was the assistant secretary of state at the time, and he is subsequently being the special representative of the united states to iran and to venezuela. of course, many allegations about you as well as the venezuela. in recent times he says that the actually, the numbers do not tally at all of that. for a start. the u. s. military, people like general galvin late and they took amanda 7 gone. it would never counter

torture. this is more generally there. and as for l mazata, there weren't nearly that number of people. there were only 200 or 300 people though. well, he's using the line of defense minister garcia, who said he has said many things. first. he and elliot abrams and the u. s. government denied that any massacre occurred. the reason we had the 992 forensic dig was because from 1981 to 1992, they denied that there was any massacre. when we dug up the bodies and you could see the bodies of the children were shot, most of them, some were be headed in the soccer field, and others were hung from the trees. but the children in the dig that we did were killed in what was called the convent. they were killed and they were buried in a place that we knew of. so the very 1st forensic digs were, digs were bodies of children. it was clear they were all massacred, it was clear,

they were massacred by bullets that had come from missouri in the united states. so the weapons were provided by the united states, those who killed him where the outlaw cancel. there is no doubt of us this. there can be no doubt about this. and one of the things that has been very important in these years from 1990 to the dig all the way through the trial that was just cancelled in el salvador or stopped. and all, salvador is that you cannot no longer deny this massacre. you cannot deny the numbers. we have the names, we can list the people we have are slowly identifying through dna, the identities of many of the children so that they are very small caskets can be given back to their surviving family members. so, you know, to say that this is exaggerated, it didn't happen that the victims are lying. this was a gorilla plot. some of the,

a salvadoran military says that this was a cemetery of the guerrillas. now none of that is borne out by all the evidence we have, and we have a lot of and say, okay, well reagans is, this is hector saint dramas. and the said no evidence to confirm government forces actually systematically, mascot civilians are we layer of coverage. i like want to say that he later wrote not bad and apologize for that in the new york times, i believe, which goes along with what i'm saying about the denials. but he later apologized. he said there was a massacre. he was sorry, he denied it. he had been given this information and he was sorry, he had testified in the u. s. congress in the way he had. so just to let you know that some of these people have changed their minds. what about what a bronze? because i did notice, i mean, you're on a command, you're the committee of the national endowment for democracy, which we talk about this program a lot as a kind of vanguard to re, of, and god,

perhaps, of regime change a different country. so the elliot abrams tell me about how you do what you do, knowing that there are forces that still one to oppose your view. that what was done was wrong given that you abraham. so, you know, in the night he said, what went on, do you think our level of military aid was worth it? he said, yes. knowing the thousands of people the dud course, he says yes. and he says yes, because us policy at the time under him was the arming. and so salvador and military and this is a military that we knew was killing thousands and thousands and thousands of civilians. what is so shocking about the on the south a massacre is the children. i mean, not, it's not a shocking massacre. i've documented 53. we're all massacres and all salvador and that's, that's only a partial number. he's our big massacres. they're in the rural areas where they're

very hard to document because if you don't take our bodies, if you don't go to the rural areas, which was extremely dangerous when we were going there. because that's where all the kids, not all, but that's where a lot of the killing was. if you look back as a news, then people covered mostly urban killings and desk. what killings? but what was happening at the same time? and elliot abrams was fully aware of this. he's just not telling the truth and i want to say something about him. he was indicted and convicted of perjury. so the fact that the another administration brought him back and tried to rehabilitate him . he did line a congress, he was convicted of that and he may be in the national endowment of democracy, but i am not if there my name is listed there, that's an error. i. i was surprised. i never knew that. so thank you for that. know what i have been on is the board of the journal