a with germany is involved in the work of bio weapons labs and ukraine together with the g u. s. allies. that's the latest revelation coming from moscow on the west to legit biological military activities in the region. an investigation claims ukrainian security service used guantanamo style. torture techniques on political opponents of president bill, as we speak to the author behind the probe, who says the practice was supervised by the cia has top us officials, once again pressure, india to abandon its neutral stance with russia and refrain from any further cooperation. we'll have a live panel discussion about it later in the program with

wherever you are, you're watching r t international. my name's donald quarter. welcome to the program. now russia's foreign ministry is claiming germany has conducted military biological activities and ukraine with its u. s. counterparts. according to confront reports, germany closely cards needed its work on biological security. with this american allies that established a network of at least 30 biological aborts, reached any crane ambition to their other activities. they were involved in dangerous research. the fact that it's official go is to improve the biological defense and security situation. the crane, particularly in these of the country, gives rise to the rhetorical question of which border, the german military biologists consider an outer border for the purposes of their professional interests. is that the russian ukraine border the joining me to give us more details here in the studio now as our keys, eager stano. so eager give us the facts of these bio labs and ukraine. well, essentially the fact that these by elapse exist at all. it is an open secret,

i mean, united states even have openly admitted that there, there what's new here is apparently the germans involvements in it. and the will basically in the activities that have been going on within the walls of these laboratories, or rather even the extent of the german involvement. apparently, according to the documents revealed by the, by the russian authorities, you can see them on your screen right now. at least several german institutes, joe and research institute even would ties to the german military, according to the russian foreign ministry with ties to the german military. they were kind of, they were in cahoots with the, with these labs in ukraine and a pass to them. some, some samples of diseases which are very contagious and well, they're quite nasty. here's how the spokeswoman for the russian foreign ministry. murray of the heart of explained what was going on, and how exactly those institutes were involved in ukraine. the frederick closer

institute has focused on crime in congo hemorrhagic fever of the burnett knocked institute for tropical medicine, has concentrated its activities and he crane onyx truly dangerous fevers dangle chicken junior west nile and suits named few. so these are some names that you don't really hear often in your day to day life. and to me, to read these names and to have to research these diseases. it was very new. it's something something bigger than a common cold, or even just the flu, which we're all used to. we have some pictures of one of the diseases that will study that. again, it's quite graphic and it is quite unpleasant to look at. but this is just visual purposes. just to give you an idea that is, again, it's not just something that you just that would just give you a cough or a runny nose. it's very and it's very nasty it's, it's quite bad. so this is the sort of, this is the sort of disease is this is the sort of viruses that have been,

that have been studied on the ukranian soil in this bio labs. and these viruses were shipped directly from germany according to the documents that we've seen. and according to again, according to maria's heart of the spokeswoman for the russian foreign ministry, basically the justification, the pretext as to why these, these diseases should be studied was the well was the internal conflicts at that time, the internal conflict between key of and the eastern regions of ukraine, again back then just east and regions of ukraine. now of course, people's republics of don bass and la guns comparatively, the pretext and the ger, the, the reasoning use behind, you know, sending all these viruses to ukraine. and to key of was that they were concerned of a similar threat stemming from these will east in the territories again, have a lesson the institute of microbiology claims in its materials that the project is related to the potential threat of biological terrorism. any crane and me,

the an anti hostilities in eastern regions of that country. it is crystal clear that this is a way to send a subtle message about the dpr, an l. p r as possible involvement and hatching plans for the use of internationally prohibited biological weapons. so again, according to, according to mary, as a heart of the german institutes, they will, at least in some part, coordinating the operational will basically go coordinating operations and activities in at least 30 institutes and 30 by a labs on the ukranian swell. where we have, have we heard any comments from the united states or germany in relation to these bio labs? well, germany has been trying to distance itself as much as possible from these activities and helping the united states in their rhetoric. and the washington has been doing everything in its power to kind of sweep it under the rug. and basically the messaging was, well, nothing to see here move along. this was all done with a very peaceful purposes. i mean, these documents that we've seen,

the claim that none of the samples given to the you to the labs in ukraine, that none of the samples are actually contagious. but again, this is just one tiny law in one, just one line at the very end of the document. and again, if they were studying them, if they were studying them under the pretext of a biological threat coming from, you know, coming from the people who republics of the next can look guns, then. well, again, it doesn't really, it doesn't really go well with the, with another batch of documents uncovered by the russian military that apparently ukraine, they was trying to, that ukraine was trying to figure out if the turkish manufacturer could explain whether the turkish manufacturer of drones, of bi rockstars, if these drones could fly as far away to be with me as 300 kilometers away from the control center. and if they could carry spraying aerosols on them. again, this is,

these are the documents on your screens. and now you are looking at a drone discovered by the russian military very shortly after they discovered the documents, apparently equipped with all, with everything necessary to carry era sol. so again, it doesn't fit well as it doesn't really sit well with the fact that the americans had previously painted a drone. that is capable of the exact same things that the ukrainian military was looking for. and again, so what the, what the us government was trying to do, it was trying to, well, kind of, well move it as far away from the media, limelight as possible. but one thing is certain they didn't want russians to find out and still don't as to what's going on behind. within the walls of these labs have, listen, ukraine has biological research facilities. we are working with the ukrainians on how they can prevent any of those research materials from

falling into the hands of russian forces should they approach. i'm sure you've noticed how careful victoria noland was the picking was as to what exactly is going on there? what these facilities are, she's been very, very careful with her wedding. so again, right now, there's basically 2 opposing powers be united states trying to keep the russians at bay from these research facilities and russia, well concerned with its own safety is doing everything in its power to on the contrary, to get into these labs and see what was going on that are 2 figures. donna, thanks a lot for giving us those details in the bio labs and ukraine. no investigation has alleged that the ukrainian security service has been torturing prisoners of war and ukrainian. suspected of having pro russian sympathies report contains the accounts of people who shared their experiences. they used a lighter to heat up

a needle than put it under my fingernails. the worst was when they put the plastic bag over my head and suffocated me. and when they held the muzzle of a kalashnikov rifle to my head and forced me to answer their questions, it was like a small guantanamo. i was told that if it wasn't for my 2nd passport, i'd be killed. i didn't know how much that was to influence and scare me, or how much of it was real. currently, the s b u is rounding up. any one accused of sympathy for russia. so anyone who speaks russian, anyone who is, is thought to be in support of the russian offensive inside ukraine is likely to be put into this torture prison and interrogated and beaten my investigation contains testimony from 2 men who were tortured inside the s b. u. headquarters and

a sports complex or gym attached to it. and they gave me accounts of extreme torture. beatings where, where prisoners were bleeding from their mouth. one man had hot needles stuck under his fingernails. he said that there were 2 men from the russia who were tortured to death. so it's clear, and it's been documented, not only by myself, but by amnesty international and united nations that the ukrainian security service, the s b, you, torture is prisoners. ukrainian secret service is use of torture in prisons has been previously covered in reports, published by the united nations and amnesty international. according to those reports, the s b u has a number of compounds in cities across ukraine, where people have allegedly been detained and tortured for having pro russian views

. the reports officer dan cohen also claims the ukrainian security service was working on a plot to assassinate the exiled opposition. figure and leading journalist anatoly shall read. he's also a popular blogger who back in 2020, had already claimed the landscape presidential office, ordered his assassination. no, i could be ugly. this police report was written a few hours ago to spanish police. in this report, a man named alexander's old can states that he's got an order for a political assassination of a politician and blogger anatoly sharp. according to his words, the assassination order has been given from people directly affiliated with the presidential office of ukraine. we need to see reporters asking a lensky where are these prisoners who have been disappeared and we never, and we've never heard from again. and if they've been killed or tortured, as they obviously have their need to be, these are, these are crimes that need to be,

there needs to be accountability for them. this sort of torture fits a geo political agenda in support of the united states and european union against russia. and so, well the us and you claim to be supporting democracy and, and for freedom it's obvious that you know, anyone who's unlucky enough to end up in one of these torture prisons may not come out alive. so there's a very clear double standard, and this has nothing to do with human rights or democracy. it's all about us. empire. we've now heard about the threat posed to one opposition figure in the past, but another is facing problems right now. victor mid veteran was arrested this week by ukrainian security services, and now his wife is asking for british prime minister boris johnson, to swap detained british mercenaries for her husband. from 2018 until his arrest

med mitchell was the chairman of a pro russian party in kiev. he played a key role in negotiations between ukraine, russia and the people's republic of done yet guns and his wife says that this arrest was completely against the law. then they could prime minister johnson. i'm not sure of i've also visual petition element of your grand government ritual. i appeal to your for help in exchange and my husband horse illegally that then but keith authorities for political reasons and false accusations for citizens of your country. i had an accident and some peanut held, their family and friends. i and sean held me based on victim. earlier russia said it detained several military personnel from nato countries, including 2 british citizens,

8 and ashlyn and sean penner were fighting as mercenaries and ukraine. they were captured this week as prisoners of war and mariel, along with hundreds of ukrainian soldiers. this comes after boris johnson's flying visit to kiev, where he pledged to provide more military aid to president zelinski. there have already been several reports of british citizens fighting in ukraine. however, johnson himself has completely ruled out the possibility of british british troops officially fighting in ukraine against the russian army. medical analyst, yvonne missouri believes, as long as the lensky continues his anti russian stance. the west will turn a blind eye to any political repressions in ukraine, but my son was shooting by and large, so lensky has a free hand today to finally strangle political freedoms in ukraine. so lensky could not have an honest and democratic dialogue with some adventure in a political competition. in fact, we see a typical dictator in the sensor viewer, and unfortunately today, forrest jobs and macro and the european leaders,

will turn a blind eye to this. they see it like this. so if lensky does something back to russia, then this is our guy. for such reasons, they will turn a blind eye to political trials to the arrests from an opposition political leaders such as victim advocate unto the activities of nationalists and radicals. a lot of humour inside the army. ever since russia began its special operation in ukraine, top us officials have been putting india under ever increasing pressure to back away from any cooperation with moscow. we obviously would prefer that india move away from their long term history of non alignment g 77, partnership with russia. india, though it has repeatedly said it has a neutral position towards the conflict, and much to washington's anger has continued cooperation with russia in the energy sphere. india is also dependent on russia for away a range of weaponry. and to get more on this now we're going to discuss this with

our guests, former indian foreign secretary con walter ball and former greek and bastard leon. itis kristen topless. both of you. thank you a lot for joining us on the program to discuss this 1st question i want to direct to sa ball. so washington wants india to turn it back on russia. why do you think it's so important to the us? well, united states, i cannot decide what should be on want to see a long standing there is a great deal mutual trust. russia stood by india in difficult times. defended dies, the deep and long lasting shot has never imposed sanctions on us. the only time when they denied us technology was under president yeltsin, who succumb to us to pressure to deny us coverage and technology for us based program. otherwise, it has been

a very to live in apartment. and as the partnership is growing up, i minister visited rowdy was talking 2018. we agreed to participate in the developmental russia party for which in fact we offer a credit line and the concept off of a lot of the most talk to and i got it all was developed which would increase trade flows and energy flows and commodity flows between the parties and india, so there's a lot on our agenda by naturalization with russia. this is part of our long standing on a field being friendly with all countries, including with the united states relationship with united states as got totally transformed in the last 1516 years or so. it's an expanding relationship. see our relationship with united states to meet certain specific needs of india. our nation with russia also meets certain specific needs. there's no reason why we

should sacrifice our specific needs in our relationship with russia, who you have them out. now us doesn't ask guidance from us or dick days from us as to what they should do with pakistan or any other countries. look at the relationship with china. $670000000.00 of trade. i haven't ever told them that we have with china, therefore slow down your relationship with china. august on is still the non needle strategic ally every year. i've asked them that they should remove this designation from pakistan behind it. or what i've done is done to the dollar bonding to consult us, knowing that this was the end of this for security. so they do what they want in terms of what the national interest are. and we will do what we need to do in terms of our national interest. we don't see our relationship with united states, such as a 0 sum game. and, and united states is no. want to tell us what should be our foreign policy of how we should pursue our national interests. we are not harming the security of the

united states by having energy dies or any other dice with russia. but if you're not, a state does us to draw out additions, it was a shot given what have told you, it is a direct threat to our national security. so there is no battle between these 2 relationships and united states should be little more understanding and accommodating and not play this game that i, that you are with us or against us. this is called war thinking. this is not modern take. well mr. chris, on topple us. i want to go to you now. india is not the only country that's tried to reiterate that there neutral in this russia, ukraine conflict. do you think it's fair to say that the u. s. is trying to pressure these countries to 2 sides. mr. chris and topless can hear me well, looks like we've lost the former greek ambassador there, but if he comes back we'll show him on the tv. so up

anyway, i said, mr. softball can no, i guess i'll bring the question to you instead it do you think it's hypocritical, that the u. s. decides who it should, which to tell people who to align with and whom you see united states has gone to the spirit of you, the naturalism, especially after the collapse of the soviet union. and they did exactly what they wanted in various parts of the go. but then they suffered reverse after it was including in iraq and then in have gone to star. and the moment is over. but now with the country in ukraine. and the fact that this has to consolidate the atlantic unity and nato, and the belief that russia is losing this water ukraine and more weapons. if this applies to the density,

government actually get bogged down and to become and have gone to some type of situation. and then even by then, i said, why don't believe that they're looking for a gene change in muscle. therefore, there is not up at this moment, but what really happened is with all the sanctions that imposed on russia, which actually are in a way, the destruction of the current international order. the john i want to use or, you know, and i saying good to go. supply chains, critical, raw materials buffy. united states actually recognize finance and the international . although they are controlled by imposing sanctions on, on the, on russia, which they want other countries like india and others to also adhere to against their own own own interest. so i think this policy is not going to succeed. most of the world is not in favor of this, and i would say that in fact the sanctions are causing a lot of misery with potentially cause

a lot of misery all over the globe because of distractions that are being cause in terms of supply chains and availability of, of food range and energy prices of rocketing which are put a lot of pressure on the economies of various countries. so this is a bit of a disaster is a lot of this from the world is concerned. what is essentially a european conflict and my point of view has been converted aggressively into major international conflicts to this policy of sanctions that the united states is pursuing. and therefore, this belief that they do not have the sense of power and they can force compliance with sanctions on others, will work up to some extent because united states controls the financial system, the dollar a gone up, many businesses, governments are afraid of funding a follow us sanctions because they have

a lot of interest in the american financial system and therefore there is pressure on them. but really that means will be found to go around the sanctions that has happened in the case of the donald and russia being what it is. one of the biggest kind of the biggest country in the world with huge natural resources of a powerful country with a powerful military, a nuclear weapon like one state. it can withstand all of this. and india is not going to be a party beyond a certain point to, to these are sanctions imposed on russia goes, we will die and deal with the situation as best as we can by developing new payment systems. because we have to pay for what we are a trade in by the exchanges a shop and we are, we are working on that. we will buy more oil often ask mr said publicly that given the fact that 84 percent of all that energy is important and any,

any it is a $1.00 in the price of oil. it actually adds half a $1000000000.00 to what important bill therefore you for us offering discounted oil. why should india in its natural interest? not, not that i take that opportunity and i for, i'm going to start. i will conclude with that said in washington, that what we may buy from russia in a while in one months, you're a buyer in one afternoon, from russia. so therefore, to dallas, that you are financing. williams wall is ridiculous. well, it looks like mr. chris and topless, so we've restored signal with you good to have you back. i'd like to turn the discussion in your direction. so amid western calls for de escalation of the u. s. ukrainian crisis there also, they also seem to want to do anything to harm russia, no matter what the cost, what does the us really want to achieve in terms of peace or the destruction of russia? what do you think?

i don't think that they're interested in the piece. they're interested in having a total war that might be very detrimental to, to, to russia and create serious problems, serious problems to that country. but what the united states doesn't see that we're being humanity is being driven towards a nuclear holocaust. if we continue like that, there are no peace initiatives the, the issue now that should concern the west and russia is to start serious peace negotiations between nato and moscow. and between the united states and moscow must not forget that it was moscow who proposed as she in december. moscow presented to draft agreements that were very comprehensive between nato and

russia. and between the united states and russia. and these and these agreements were not even making need to consider. i mean these are draft agreements were not even thinking into consideration. they were immediately rejected. and thus we have this horrible situation of today. we must also not forget on the question of you as a sanctions how in september 2020 is a usa imposed sanctions on the international. the. busy on the i c c prosecutor fund to been sued up and, and see your prosecution official. because the international criminal court was ready to start searching for crimes against humanity that the u. s. troops in afghanistan did. and of course i'm in the palestinian. it always done

by israel, we must not forget these things. so i think it's about time perhaps that a. busy we should start examining as a 1st measure to remove the united nations from new york and bring the whole facility to geneva since the united nations. nobody, nobody follows it anymore. nope. i think there ations at the security council resolutions are no longer implemented. so basically what to what the u. s wants to do is not to have any piece of discussions and tried to do as much damage to russia and to europe at the same time. while just so that the both of you can get that equal time on the panel here. i also want to direct my next cross question to you, mr. kristen, topless. do you think that these western sanctions on russia are ultimately going to result in a new world order?

no, i think that they're going to destroy the basic economy of for europe, since europe is still attached to it in the energy sector and in the agriculture sector to imports from russia, it's going to create a disaster in europe with political consequences. it's not going to change, it's not going to be a you order. it's going to be something even worse than that. okay, well, i'll just direct the last question here to you, mr. sybil despite india's unwillingness to swap its military contracts with russia for american ones, the u. s. continues to force these issues. do you think washington is going to get its way ultimately? not really. because our relationship in the defense sector with a long standing while 60 to 70 percent, all our equipment is all russian origin. we have to service this equipment that we

need spare parts for this equipment. there are new contracts that have been signs, which would be long term supply o s 400, which is continuing to build a factory for a, a 47 type offer. i think it was 203 rifles in india. some figures still be supply. i'm sure they will be mo, contracts for a make $29.00 aircraft, which india needs, and some additional sequoia which are also needed by india. so i don't think this the military relationship between india would be diluted or ended or circumscribed because of the u. s. special which is open. i mean they are saying quite openly that they want us to reduce our defense dependence on moscow

that they will help us to do that. and that if you need spare parts and other things for some medical been, there will help us. but give them from eastern european a central european country is not. this is, it is quite ridiculous, frankly, because what we actually need is that we want to both russia, united states to participate in building in the us domestic defense manufacturing capability for which we have outlined a very ambitious program. and to my own understanding. sorry, we're right out of time here on the program. i just was. yeah, go ahead and that i understand that i was much more cooperative in this regard than the united states. well, thank you very much for both joining us on the program. that's conwell. so ball, former indian foreign secretary and last night as chris and topple is former greek ambassador. thank you both and get more news coming your way.