just so well, if anybody's been trapped in an elevator 20 minutes could be pretty long time right and a load trapped at an elevator for 20 minutes. not knowing what's gonna happen, not knowing where you are the suits of sensory deprivation. ugh, think about that if your life at 20 minutes an hour. not at all. yeah, the intercom is nothing i was trying to get you out because keeping you id is your communication. oh that's existence who. ready ah. ready

ah, a more of the building. mm . no more on turn, begins with me, but it does not in there. it will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found. stopped and defeated. ah . i think the last one, the warranty. so you know, comparison to con, resort to torture,

and i think it gives them the illusion of mastery and dominance and control by torturing essentially we blind ourselves. but we could in fact, create a democratic society which actually has consistently valuable and effective techniques to fight terror. the fact that we don't is more an expression of our own anxieties and fears were so called interrogation techniques used by us officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind and therefore also the body because they are very connected and leave no physical traces, it's an extremely destructive practice. torture

on, of course, on those who receive this pain and suffering. but also on the sidey that becomes a society of cruelty. what we've done is we've not so much lost the war on torture as we've won the war on democracy, and that through terrorizing a population over a period of decades. so that there's nobody in this country who didn't grow up with some booky man, some danger. first, it was communism, then it was terrorist for obviously engaged in many facets of what is generally called the cold war. rich, the communist policies force had no don. i engage in

any political activity or any intelligence there was not approved. at the higher level, there was a concern that emerged in the 1st started coal in the late notice that the soviets had cracked the code of human consciousness. that they knew how to apply pressure upon the human mind and break to my mind. and it was that sir of this whole pursuit that legal html it, the creation of the c eyes, doctrine of psychological torture. this was a time of the brain washing scare. there were show trials in eastern europe, in hungary and poland, which aroused a lot of concern in the west because people seem to be confessing to crimes that

they hadn't committed or mm hm. most importantly was a child of cardinal mines in ski and hungry. and jessica was already and natural were too quite famous because she was known for having resisted the nazis and their occupation of hunger. and then after the war, he became the cardinal. and the primary of the church. they arrested him. they can find him was choose of being an aristocrat, it became a kind of target of that regime. and then he was put on trial, were publicly he confessed to the charges against him. and there was this fear in washington, the prince of the church. a man known for his courage under nazi pressure that if he could be broken clearly the soviets session of techniques.

mm. the c i s reaction was primarily around what they thought was brainwashing the concerns with communist brainwashing . what they never seemed to realize was that these communist techniques were actually borrowed originally from earlier american techniques in the 1920s, in 1000 ten's, using sleep deprivation, exhaustion exercises. all these other techniques were standard domestic policing tortures. they were also driven by 2nd concern. there was a moral panic in the 1950s that an american p o w is in korea. they confessed to things that were completely untrue and it didn't look like they had been talking during the korean more. what happened was that there were chapter down american aviators,

and there were around 30 pilots that made testimonies. there were 4 pilots that broadcast on radio birching, alleging that the united states was using bacteriological warfare against the korean people. after the armistice, one, these pilots were released or brought back and they were put through court martials, and they realized that they had been put through what was then called brain wash. could you describe the method used by the communists? interrogated oh yes, i would put these methods into to categorize physical torture all the start and mental torture. it consisted mainly of standing at attention, having my faith flap once in awhile and i did fail to respond as they wanted me to it consistent of being confined in a very close area. the mental treatment which they gave was

a start day designed to try to wear down my resistance to their interrogation to break my willpower to force me in some manner to confess. a mind control, pardon starts in 250. this was a project that involved a $1000000000.00 a year. there was a formal creation of british finance american operation at the highest levels in order to mobilize behavioral scientists. so these 3 countries, in order to kind of crack the code of human consciousness of medical doctors or cornell university medical school in new york city, they got access to some other more classified material on people that escaped from the city. and i've been tortured in this so in wolf was

a very well known neurologist. he had a personal relationship with alan dell as the head of the cia and with the human ecology of fun walls offered to who does ca, essentially a friends in order to study questions of brainwashing what they discovered was $11.00 of the 2 foundational techniques and the ca, doctrine of psychological torture, they discovered a self inflicted pain. what they described in that, in their, in their co author article was that the most devastating technique that the k g, b and k v d practice was not crude physical beatings. but simply making subject stand immobile for hours and days at a time. if you force a human being to stay in

a certain position, especially position that puts a little stress on ligaments or muscles or bones, joints. it doesn't take very long for the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating. but nobody's lane figure finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. ah, that was one of the techniques. the other technique they discovered was from the a, the biomedical research. there was dr. haves work, it was the chair of the psychology department at mcgill university in canada. students volunteered to participate in the study of human behavior under extreme and prolong monotony. their hands and arms were softly covered to muffle a sense of touch, all harsh lines subdued by

a mass comfortable bell choir. and yet it was impossible for most of these students to take it for more than $24.00 or 48 hours. center deprivation really is way of producing 3 monotony. it's of horrible experience getting worse and worse. somebody suddenly talked about cruelty. what they said was that the degree of boredom became intolerable and was once i'd been said as bad as anything you had to hitler had ever done to any of his son, the teresa victims. as we know from almost any basic medical understanding, human contact is what makes us human. and a leg enables a person to have a sense of normalcy in their lives. and when they are completely isolated from any human contact and often kept in this sensory isolation, you will literally easily become severely,

mentally impaired or have then they came of a consult that she could she had to work for them. is really the progenitor, modern psychological torture on this project funded another guy, mcgill named dr. ellen cameron. what you and cameron did at elmore island city was, was close to monstrous. i came in psychotherapy, i was just crying, crying cry was a hopeless. i didn't know what to expect. they said i was going to the psychiatric ward. ah, you meant that that, that cameron, that's you and cameron? yes, i met him. that we were all was terrified of him. why?

we also fear we all had a fear of him and we didn't want him to notice us because whatever he did, whenever there was a patient with them, the patient was always screaming. ah ah, with

with these are the days and hours ah, the occasion processor you and cameron was a very famous psychiatrist. he was head of the american psychiatric association and the world psychiatric association. he was the top of the field. at the same time,

he seemed pretty much willing to do anything. and the for the cia to find a doctor who didn't have limits in a nearby cap. but oh, with lots of patients to work with last as subs that subjects was somebody they were interested in supporting patients would come in ah, with ordinary psychological emotional problems, they sign their waivers and they would be subjected to this czar urging of xtreme sensory deprivation, isolation, for, for up to a month, one of his favorite things was he had a sort of a football helmet with a tape recorder in it would play a tape and look up to 500000 times, say things like, my mother hates me. and he would blit the brim with ropes enter deprivation and kind of psychological emotional assault. well, what's working?

i mean it's garbage blue. ah, what he did was he would put people under massive electro shock and he would give it to the banner prolong basis along with what he called sleep therapy. his idea was, once you wipe the brain clean, you could wipe out the site a buried behavior. the bad ideas, the ideas who were messing up people's minds. and you could program in other ideas . electric convulsive therapy picked up and was widely used in germany before it went anywhere else as a way of returning soldiers to war. the german army wasn't going to spend tons of money on psychotherapy for regular soldiers, so they were looking for cheap and effective ways to send soldiers back to war. it

then moves into united states in the clinical note of march 23rd 1962 confirmed a 129, e. c. t 's cameron's clinical notes, september 12th for command patterning and sleep. the clinical notes of october, 19th, november, 1st november, 3rd, november 8th, november 15, all confirmed the patterning and various stages myself to those that was falsely acting strange, right? my mother desire to have. i decided to have the bill to the on find out what was wrong. so i went to the on a couple of months later and a bathroom has shocked on me. i was in the hours sir, 6 months and this would repeat over days and days and weeks and yeah,

it's what you feel you have been through being good background. yes, i guess and i say you in mariah and are different worlder or a somehow could be yeah. wow. yeah. well they didn't finish the treatments with me . so when i came over was still active and so on. but they did. you went through 3 sessions of di patterning treatments, and when i asked you about things before you don't, you don't remember, like, i say, if i ask you, what were you? what's that for you typing for the national defense, for instance. oh, on that now, are there certain things in your memory that you just don't remember? oh, this 1st hospitalized. i was about 1616 and a half. the doctors pushed me into sleep therapy. and that was it for about 3 weeks

in sort of a deep sleep. but i don't remember getting up to go to the washroom. i don't, i just remember that the doctor came in occasionally to feed me, and that was it. and then shortly after a while there was another patient that came in, and she was an older one and she slept in the other bed. when i started to wake up, i've saw these patients and these patients were in tube, some of them they had earphones and headphones. i dont know if they did any of that to me because when i, with the 1st 3 weeks, i don't know what happened. but this was d patterning. ah, the, she is doctrine of psychological torture that they develop through research in the decade, the 1950s. and was codified in the bar counterintelligence interrogation manual for. mm hm.

mm. as to basic techniques on which all the rest of the procedures to run one is sensory deprivation and the other is self inflicted pain. ah, the cia trained allied agencies in the techniques. so in effect, you know, knowing about, dissemination about is huge. send these techniques to other armies. could you take an ordinary individual like a resty or recruit and make a person become an effective interrogate? and it seems that mill gms experiment was a liking part of this project. when i learned of incidents such as the destruction of millions of men,

women and children, perpetrated by the nazis in world war 2, how is it possible i asked myself that ordinary people were courteous and decent in everyday life? can i callously in you mainly without any limitations of conscience under what conditions, when a person obey authority, who commanded actions and went against conscience? these are exactly the questions that i wanted to investigate at your university. the mower experiment very simply was assimilated torture. this was one, not all the research we've been describing is the impact of interrogation upon the subject. milgar had another agenda, the impact of interrogation upon the interrogator. if he were to indicate the wrong answer, he would say wrong. then tell him the number of rolls you're going to give him. then give him the punishment and read the correct word pair. once he got an ordinary people who fit by all the regular scales,

very normal americans. and then he subjected them under false color to do to doing what he called an educational experiment in try to encourage people to apply ever higher voltages as a false patient kept on getting, making mistakes. in fact, milgar was able to encourage, at least in his 1st experiments, i think close to 70 percent, to go on to apply highly dangerous. and sometimes fable shocks. i'm not going to get that man. think it there. i mean there, i mean, i mean i want to learn who likes it or not. we must go on until you're done wrong. i refuse to take the responsibility and get her. that means under. all right, let me, it's absolutely essential. as you continue teacher, there are still many left here and i'm eager to get wrong good as to when in last.

i mean i'm going to take the responsibility. if only have was a gentleman responsible for anything that happens here. continue with an actual slow wow. dance truck. music answer plays wrong. ah 95 robes dance. i mean, yes, he did this simply with a very simple thing. putting the person behind the wall and having a person with a white lab coat, telling them that they needed to continue. very ordinary people can be influenced by situations and it's one of the implications of both the milligram experiment this embargo

the stanford prison experiment was i think a unique attempt to answer that question of what makes some people behave in good way. but what makes some people behave in a bad way. and so the idea was let's, let's find an evil place and prisons everywhere in the world are evil places. and let's fill this evil place with only good people. to get the students involved, i had convinced the palo alto police department to make mach arrest of all the students who got a president. and then they came down to the basement of at stanford psychology department. the place where the prison study was done. the idea is prison is made to feel inferior, insignificant,

worthless. the most important thing is you take away their name, they become a number. and of course, given they have smocks it with no underpants that behind is showing like my 1st hour in there. it was humiliating, lose also. abrupt was quick. it was just, you know, take him off, put this on. and then i got dusted with baking soda, which was supposed to be the de lauser. and i was living in the cell. what this embargo did was a very cheap dark off of the kind of thing that milgram was doing. not always embargo, but i think, you know, the guard called john wayne believed that ethics don't matter if the environment is artificial. and that's not true. all life is real life

we needed to get tougher with the prisoners and it could well be that we were instructed by the experimenters to get over. in fact, i don't think we considered ourselves to be a subject of the experiment. we were merely a tool of the researchers to get the results they wanted from the real subjects, which we thought were the prisoners. and i decided to become the nastiest prison guard that i could make myself. but i was responsible for coming up with all these routines that i would put the prisoners through where i'd have them stand and align, recite their numbers, do push up to do jumping jacks. i had never once stopped to think that these prisoners were suffering any harm or any damage. we're not,

we're not treating anybody. we're just sort of applying psychological pressure on them. oh wow. yeah. been a harm's me. how did how does it hard? just to claim that people can be like, yeah, and let me in on some knowledge that, that i've never experienced 1st hand. i've read about it, i read a lot about it, but i've never experienced it for 10. i've never seen someone turn that way. i know you're a nice guy, you know, well, you and potentially would you have that? i don't know. ah ah.

with oh is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer?

isolation for community. are you going the right way, or are you being that some with what is true war his way in the world corrupted? you need to descend. ah, so join us and the deaths will remain in the shallows. ah, situational forces can overwhelm, can dominate even the best of us, ordinary people, put in a bad evil environment, can become transformed to become part of that negative environment. and it's any of

us, or in fact most of us the office of naval intelligence, it was pretty consistent, caught out front for cia, they funded much of this research. and i don't know if there was a yield that they, they produce a yield for this cruel science. i don't, i that's, it's maybe more, i just don't think they do. it might play out spectacularly in the military. so the connections would be much further down the road. it would be particularly in the iraq war and in the setting up of get mo and all of that. and by the time you get to 2001, it's already this cultural artifact. and.