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hello and welcome to cross stock. we're all things considered, i'm peter level. we're told one of the hallmarks of western liberalism is the idea and practice of tolerance. more specifically, it is said, we should not judge an individual or group based on their race color or creed. but that apparently doesn't apply when it comes to russians. bruce, a phobia is the new bigotry. ah cross stocking russo foby, i'm joined by my guess arthur. clearer in toronto, he's a liberty advocate and freelance editor and oh hi. we have oliver boyd barrett. he is a professor emeritus of journalism and public relations at bowling green state university, as well as author of russia gate in propaganda. and here in moscow we crossed to robert bridge. he's american writer and journalist based in moscow are a gentleman,

cossack, rules and effect. that means he can jump in any time he want. and i always appreciate arthur, let me go to you 1st and toronto. what happened to the liberal tradition? i mean, it seems of all crashed. i mean, every single minority group a marginalized group, we have to have tolerance, we it, we hear all the time. 247. but there's one exception. it's russians apparently go ahead in toronto. it's, it's interesting because there's a are almost a rejection of that original liberalism that the west kind of developed over the last little while. and it's turn into a new religion. i'm a new state religion almost in which there's something called repressive tolerance . and, and that is based in this kind of neo marxian, postmodern ideology that is very rand throughout, throughout the western general. so that sort of gets found here. oliver, if i go to you very early in california, i'm, you're,

you specialize in these kinds of things here. are you surprised of the, the, the ferociousness of this kind of cancel can, i mean, we, you know, this is canceling of an entire people of an entire culture. now i only a few weeks ago, months ago is a no, we don't like the good this government, but we like the people. they don't even apply that. now go ahead oliver. yes, i am somewhat surprised by the veracity of it. there's nothing new about raso phobia of course has gone back or i would put it at least as far back as the crimean war of 185853 and and probably from from before then. and of course, we saw that true, the bolshevik revolution of the long era of the cold war. when we came out of the cold war, we were to discover that apparently communism or the absence of communism had

actually nothing to do with us russian relations. but we still had to keep thinking negatively about, about russia. but here's the thing. i would say it is that when it comes, every nation has gone. it's black periods. some nations have got lots of black periods. but the western media, western establishment thought usually allows some light on to these otherwise black periods, despite the fact of the treatment of native americans as the issue of slavery in the united states. and that number this, in our history is immediate histories of the united states. these things do not loom to the law, but in the case of russia, in the case of russia, no light is allowed and, and they, there you have the death, really, of liberal is them, and liberal, thought it was got a robert here in mosque. i mean, robert, if you don't mind me say,

i mean you do have a russian family, have a russian wife. you have children that night depending on how you want to describe a russian, american, or american russian. i don't know how this must be very painful for you because you know, you and i have lived here for a very long time. being one of the oddities of this, russo foby as you and i is americans living in russia. we feel no discrimination against no anxiety, no hatred whatsoever. 0, okay. and but you know, when you look at, you know, in the west you, you have this the, this demon ization of an entire population of people. it's culture and it's civilization is something i've never seen before on the scale. go head, robert. what does surprise me, peter? is this the hatred? is that something that really, really becoming from the grassroots love? why no russians in america and they're getting along fine with their neighbors. although there, of course, exceptions to that rule. but in general, seems to be that the pressure is coming from the top from the governments in the

corporations and organizations, the ones that should be really discouraging, this type of, let's just call it race. this attitude offering the apple you have in the united kingdom. or there you just suggested that russian players they'll have to. i think if they wish to participate in the summer, they may have to disavow probably this involve lot of your. i mean this, this is like, this type of humiliating arm twisting that are doing this little metal. and it even invaded the world of chess. for example, the now the russian, jeff, jeff players there they want to get out of the european union. they want to join the asian just union are they don't want to put up with it. they don't want to tolerate because you can't, you can't blame them. and what is so striking, i think about this type of behavior, is that you didn't see this type of cancel culture, virtually signaling when george bush, for example, was bombing iraq, or brock obama was bombing libya. you didn't have any corporations leaving the

united states. you didn't have the boy cutting products, you didn't have them walking out, you didn't have mcdonald clothing. and if you could really make the argument to that, russia has a real justification. warming the west now for many years, decade about nato advancement. they've been warning for 8 years about the bombing of the don bass and by killing russian speakers there, but it's just continues. and so the hypocrisy is just off the charts. robert, you know, you're putting context into this and that's why you're not allowed to do no context allowed. ok, you gave it some context here. go back to arthur here because it's not about politics. it's about a people, it's the, the nature of these people. that's what this is all about, that's what racism is all about here. they kicked me this liberal mindset. can't even comprehend that they are propagating racism against a large group of people collective guilt. go ahead and toronto, well, it goes back to what i was bringing up at the very beginning. that whole concept,

that ideology, that is what we have to realize is the west is not a liberal democracy. at this point in time, we are infected with an ideology. there is nothing like liberal democracy and it does see people as either oppressors or oppressed. and in this case, it's use russia, the oppressor, therefore russia and its people. and it doesn't matter who or what are nuance or anything like that. cancel done. and when we realized that the west is doing it to itself as well. yeah, there's almost no western country i know that isn't practicing the same sort of cancellation, the same sort of antagonism towards people within its own borders. it's, it's surprising, it was amazing to see how that they could do it at such a broad scale to an entire country. but this is something that most of us who are championed deliberate in any sort of way have been fighting against for prompts a decade now. ok, oliver. i mean what, there's an obvious historical analog here and it's mccarthyism. and i would say that it's far worse now because mccarthy isn't, was idea,

logically driven. it was about an ideology is about communism. it wasn't about a people per se, in this case, it is. so this is a new mccarthyism that propagates bigotry in racism. your thoughts go ahead. yes, i think i agree with you the probably this is even worse than the mccarthy era back there. and there was not a hot war between the soviet union and, and, and the united states. i would argue a despite pretenses to the contrary, i would argue that now there is a hot war that war has actually broken out. i very united states, united states, nate to and russia so that, that is a huge difference. but back then, there was a real anxiety and concern about our of nuclear weapons, but nobody was expecting the nuclear weapons would start being used there. and then

whereas right now, it will not worried unconcerned. a nuclear weapons could be used whether intentionally or as a result of some kind of miscalculation or accident. and then we are being extremely foolish that that is the reality that a greater than any other time of my life. i was born in 1945 after the other one great classic case of nuclear weapons being used by the united states or to finish off what a claimed it needed to use the nuclear weapons to finish off a world war 2 to finish off japan. although i think many historians, which was a, they were not necessary and their use was, was not justifiable at that time. and it, they didn't help to bring about the end. well, because i was above it. but anyway, that begs the point. robert, if i go back to you here, i mean,

so banning people for russians from participating in the, on the boston marathon, you already mentioned chess. we have musicians. how, how does that change anything? how does that change the political calculus except for punishing individuals? because of the way they were born, go ahead. yeah. it really, it really doesn't change anything. theater. it's just basically, as you said, it's a form of racism. to get in this whole cult, this is really caught up in a new, new wave of some, some kind of insanity from the west cancel culture. and you know, you can build up vilified, come out and vilify white people. for example, come right out and talk negatively. about them, you can have critical race theory now that promotes this whole idea that under underline, this whole nother form of racism. so when you look at russia and how they're going to be able to, to how they're going to be able to rank in terms of such a ideology that's taken over much of the west,

it's just getting worse and worse every day. you can't, you can't criticize anything. you can't speak to you and say, think even comedy died in the west. you know, yesterday was black lives matter. and, you know, despite the fact that that group was pushing neighborhoods across the nation, that was deemed ok, you know, today it's, i mean, there are right now there are participants of the january, 6 in so called insurrection sitting in prison. right now. they and hollywood, hollywood celebrities are about to bill them out like they build out the b l. m product. so i'm just giving like the background of this and russia the way it is, the fact that it's such a convenient scapegoat for so much wrong in the west. it's a nice distance distant enemy, so to speak, that they can point to escape go. they're not going to fare very well in this new type of ideology that just wants to. it's like an inquisition really. yeah. and brushes the perfect perfect target for this. it's been building up for

a long time in hollywood. russia has always been the bad guys. so it's been billing, and now you have it when, when you have this particular conflict with robert, i would say there is, there is downside from this and we're going to discuss that in a 2nd part of the program or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break and short break. we'll continue our discussion on crucified b, a say with a

with a notice they're both both models. you need to do both nelson's news with a, with a a, with the

with with ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing russo phobia ah. okay, go back to toronto. i can't believe a case is being made on a massive scale with the entire corporate media behind it. the entire political class, the trying to convince us in so many words,

that this world will be better without del scale escape goggle tchaikovsky, et cetera, et cetera. how can they make that case? go ahead. i'm mystified. well, i mean, again, going back to what we've been dealing with here in the west for, for the last 10 years, they be making that case against shakespeare. making that case against churchill or against thomas jefferson or george washington. it's not. once you're going after your own founding fathers, it's not difficult to good boy, cancel an other. but it's interesting what i find even more, and i think it should be terrifying for anyone over on this side of the world is the ease at which they're able to circle the wagons and cancel something as, as a bath, as a country when you have any sort of model, it's like that, whether it's incorporation, right, government or anything, you're facing problems even without the political aspect, you're facing problems just for lack of competition, lack of that idea, lack of fresh anything. so it's really an issue and we're going to be feeling it. i

mean, we already are feeling it on our side of the world right now. as far as economic kid, political backlash from, from our own sanctions. yeah. if you get this, sometimes we'll always, you can and ring a bell and i think we're going to be faced with that oliver. you what you said, the origins of russo phobia. go back to the crimea and more, i would even go further. go. the poll the arctic wars, but it doesn't really make any difference. it's interesting to me that we go back to that are probably on a wars to the present. we've had different types of political environments, different government regimes, all car id, ology, everything you could imagine. but the rooster phobia just stays the same. it never really changes. it's really quite remarkable. ok. my question to you is here. i talked about the antecedents here, but i'd like to go suddenly much more immediate. and that's russia again then it seems to me and roberts already brought it up here. this is still the kind of the revenge for 2016. and it's m a. and because it's very convenient, it's easy to,

to rally the forces. it's easy to intimidate progressives. importantly, recreate was very important thing to get the progressives under control. and now we just have an extension of it because it's the only tool in the toolbox. go ahead. yes, sir. interesting how propaganda is very difficult to kill a propaganda campaign. and in fact, when we come to russia is very useful not to or to, to prevent a previous propaganda campaign from dying out completely. so because it just makes it so easy to build on previous propaganda campaigns, this instance against russia or against the, the soviet union. your population is already riled up against your chosen enemy and is just so convenient to be able to remind them of that, that residual anger or fear that they have on the previous propaganda campaign. and

then to exploit that for whatever it is your, whatever your current purposes are there, the interesting thing about russia gave the course is that it had virtually nothing to do with, right? absolutely. right. i had everything to do with the democratic party in who, who's interest it was, it was propagated, and now we still find it even within the last few days for further reparations from the john durham investigation. so there we go, we got 3 threads of different kinds of lies that are being told, investigate 1st. first of all, that trump is in some way or was in some way beholden to rather than that a me a booting. that's the basic lie of the, of the now i under undermined steel report. and then we got the lie about russia being so somehow in cahoots with a russian bank, the at the alpha bank that, that, that, that is being demolished as we speak. and then we have the whole,

i about russian intelligence hacking the computers of the, of the democratic campaign, and a, as a result of the suppose it investigations while i have another question for you, oliver. ok. so get, let's, is, think back of all of the reports on cnn. and bas mbc, even fox, you know, a, b, b, c. of all the reports on russia gate. do you think that they should actually be deleted because they were misinformation? because 17 years of my work was disappeared. okay. i mean, so, i mean there's a very interesting double standard here. let me go to robert here. you know, robert, one of the interesting things is that i think you've also noticed living here is that the west lives and its own eco chamber all the time in its ideology. because all of the rooster phobic statements that are made in the west are just televised here in moscow. the average russian sees exactly what the west thinks of them as of

people and a country. i wonder what effect that will have because as i have said, and i'm always considered a bit of a hard liner, they don't like you, they want to destroy you and now i have ample evidence. 247 of evidence of what i've been saying for years. take it away, robert. yeah, that's true. i feel bad for all the company that did leave moscow. russia and they left behind a huge market. and i think a lot of that, i'm speaking about konami point of view here that they think are going to come back and that the russians are just going to be so happy again to be able to use their big macs and french fries again. and they can all be back again in line. no, i think they're going to be mistaken. they're apparently, they're still paying the rent on their property. they're still paying the employees, at least i think they are. i hope they are. but i think when they try to come back to you, they're going to be in for a rude awakening from the russian public bit. you know, they see this, this blatant hypocrisy, this real hatred. this is just nasty and i wonder,

i'm sorry for speaking about the economic side of it, but even have to wonder if russia thinking it's even worth having these big corporations here. they're just going to not you. russia is trying to enforce its own foreign policy and is being held hostage by these corporations who come here. a couple different things get tough when they don't like, what does they say? oh, i'm sorry, we're going to close up shop. now we're going to come back when things are a little bit cool. ah, why can't wait to see how that's going to work. how this is going to pan out the next time america decides the bond, somebody. and what happens then? are these corporations going to close up shop there in the west, in the, in the european capital? somehow, i don't think so. really, you know, it's interesting, arthur is that again, you know, that they, the west having its own eco chamber because they don't realize how much they alienate people around the world. particularly in the case that we're talking about in russia being, being talked down to and being mismatched like that, it really hurts hard because, you know, get to give a little bit of context,

which i know western media doesn't like to do. is that in the don bath for 8 years, up to 14000 people were killed. they were basically ethnic russians. nobody pulled a starbucks out of anywhere because of that. okay. it's a matter of most publics in the west. i've never even heard of the don bass until february 24th. that's very insulting to people that have been, have lost lives and family. go ahead and toronto. of course. well, there's in the west right now for anyone who's, who has half a brain. there's a crisis going on and it's a crisis of trust in basically every institution. but journalism and media have been at the center of this crisis for a very long time, probably longer than even we are aware of. you know, it's the same story, is what happened with syria in 2014, all of a sudden people who had no idea where syria was on a map and never heard of someone named assad prior to that also knew exactly what

syria needed and exactly who this man was and how, but he was and it's the same thing they didn't hear when, when, when things start to heat up here. and in canada, for example, about the russian incursions ukraine. the same time human was being bought and it's been being bomb 4 years now. we don't know the average katie has no idea that's happening. yeah, american probably has no idea either yet. we are sponsoring that. so it's just a matter of that spotlight. where is the spotlight being shown at this point in time? because you have that coordinated effort. they shine a spotlight where they want your attention to go. well, it's go back, it's going to all or i'll tell you one thing they don't want to talk about. when robert and i have discussed this for years with our russian fan and friends, is that these altering national, it's neo nazi groups in ukraine. and nobody in the west wants to talk about that. and as we come up to the anniversary of victory day here in russia because it's

still celebrate and it's very important victory over fascism, the russian public sees that it's fighting it again in the 21st century in a neighboring country that's not reported in the west go ahead, oliver. well, unfortunately we, we've seen this also, we saw, oh, it in russia. we've seen it in pretty much every international crisis in which the united states has been a participant, the, has had an interest. so that is to say that there is a, a monolithic ah monochromatic narrative that is spam by a at west of media and for so long and still today. unfortunately, most people in the wessa beguiled by the myth that control to the media is always controlled by the state over the media without recognizing that a corporate controlled media are just as programmatic as

a state controlled media. the are even times when a state control media are actually quite a, quite a bit more defendable van of and corporate controlled media because of the interest of corporate media in, in profit and capturing eyeballs in order to sell them to advertisers. but there's much, much more than that going on in when we, when we ponder this, a phenomenon of western subjugation to the foreign policies of western a governance. and you have to accept the fact the corporate media are part of much larger corporate empires. ah, who's continued acceptability to power. depends on that being cooperative in spinning the kind of narratives that the one of the bosses want and the boss is what it war is very profitable here. i'm robert. i'm going to go here to you last 30 seconds of the program. and, you know,

there's that the most that you hear very often, you know, most americans didn't know where ukraine was before this conflict started. i bet you'd my bottom dollar. they still don't know where it is. what do you think, robert? i think i think the year before anybody post the in emoji, ah ukrainian, if we're going to mediate and they should be able to tell you several things, like what the made on uprising was, what was the minutes protocol? who was on been there, ukrainian nazi collaborator who many, many people fighting now in ukraine for example, the only in seem to admire an honor. and that's why russians are there right now. partially. and it is really terribly ironic that you have the main line itself, abrasions coming up, and russian basically finds itself stage fighting alone against who the fascist, that's really terrible. irony is a terrible i need to and the program, and i want to thank you robert, specifically for talking about context,

which is absent in western media. it's all the time we have gentlemen many, thanks them i guess in toronto, ohio. and here in moscow. and thanks to our viewers are watching us here at r t. c. you next time? remember ross time ah. ah. russian state never. i've gone in the north lansky game for the 50000 speedy one else was even the we will bend in the european union. the kremlin machine, the state on russia today,

and archie met, given our video agency roughly all the band on youtube. and it was with what she did a request. ah, mm mm. oh, well, it shows the wrong one. i just don't know. i mean, you world yes, to fill out. this thing becomes the advocate and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. with

ah, russian lead force is close in on remaining ukrainian positions inside. they've gone boss. this is mario pope 45 nationalists soldiers i said to have surrendered on wednesday. we report from the front line with as russia successfully testify, the bronze me ballistic missile president piercings a. is it a terrorist weapon is food for thought, for those seeking to threaten the country? plus a british cord move to extradite jail to wikileaks founded julianna's songs to the u. s. on espionage charges. despite an early decision by the same chord saying astonished, could be treated harshly in american custody.