i wish i did i'm african retention. you're watching going underground team and i will be back soon with a brand new look, despite nato nation and you censorship. but until then we'll be showing some of your favorite shows a for season so far. i'm african or t as in you're watching a special edition of going underground 54 years since the tet offensive. the

turning point against us was in the vietnam region that killed 6000000 is american forces fought that war to make the world safer. capitalism in america, the youngest mayor of a major u. s. city was waging his own war against unrestrained corporate power targeting his city of cleveland. his stand against the privatization of the publicly owned mooney light company echoes fights all around the world against neoliberalism. joining me now from cleveland is that mad dennis goosenich, former democratic nominee for the u. s. presidency and author of the division of light and power. dennis, thanks so much for finally being on going underground dam. i should just stop there by the fact that we're being warned here in london that vladimir putin might turn the light and power off in that your view, your thoughts on the fact that the nato, a briefing, we are on the brink of war in europe and the biden is preparing thousands of troops to fight awards. russia. i can tell you, here from our american shide, i'm talking you from a neighborhood including ohio and no one around here. it's thinking or talking

about war. people are just trying to live their own lives. you get through the pan, derek, of find a way to survive english economy. and i think that people are going to pretty typical of most americans. i think our country needs to finally come to a on time with, with russia. resolve the underlying issues are truly related to energy. what's interesting is that my book arises at a time that there's a context for control of energy market, oil, liquid natural gas. and anytime you have that kind of a struggle, there's always the possibility that people will do whatever they can in order to dominance. and so we have to be very careful here in this stage about overreaching

and we get the world really is seeking for a way to come to pace and the saber rattling right now. that's going on. i don't think church or any country. well, particularly those in your and i think the united states mr. viner support and need to be in constant contact and lower the temperature right now, because i don't think anybody really wants more. i, i can't imagine that anyone thinks that a, their anywhere in structure conflict. i mean, there's literally talk of comparison to the cuban missile crisis. well, you know, it has to be kept in mind, rushes troop movements are happening within the russian borders. i think that really needs to be understood and russia just as any sharon nation as the right to defended some borders. i think the hysteria that's being worked up

needs to be discounted mightily. and in light of the fact that there are, are various agendas that are seeking to be advanced in the name of security, which actually when they're unmasked, you can see that in a way, it's kind of a naked attempt to grab energy markets. and we have to be very careful about that. i think that there's a there needs to be a genuine effort to repair the united states relationship with russia. but one of those agendas is privatization, and i'm not sure about cleveland, but here in london where i'm speaking to you from, often it's being talked about, the people at face a choice between eating or heating. just how did you fight as the u. s. as the youngest man,

i did the fight against privatization nearly cost your life as you describe in the division of liking power. it's really important to, to remember that any time any organization corporation has the ability to control and energy market, whether it's for electricity and what used to make electricity, oil, natural gas. you can basically to control the market. you can name your price and get it. and what people pay for the basic essentials of life because energy is no small matter. i mean, i remember growing up in cleveland as my family moved around a lot throughout the city. i remember my parents counting entities to pay a utility bill. there are people everywhere who are trying to make ends meet and what we pay for for electricity for energy royal for natural gas is no small

matter and show when i was the mayor of cleveland. and i took this book, the division of light and power is all about. i had to make a choice about who did i represent, did i represent the company that was attempting to grab a monopoly so they could increase the price of electricity or did i represent the people in the city who have a competitive electric system that exist extensively to be able to keep right slow . and so you know, this was what it was all about and there were billions of dollars each day. i mean, i asked the former british energy secretary of state about the need is some see it to keep energy resources, energy supplies on the democratic control, otherwise known as nationalized or under the control of local government. he appeared to be saying, that's where the dinosaurs who haven't caught up with the great new economics. pioneered, of course, by reagan adventure, not only is the media the dinosaur. okay.

we have to keep in mind that public deb utilities, unless the people controller melissa control, basic public services, they're always going to be subjected to increases. i mean, this is basically it's an economic issue. it's an issue of ultimately record our freedom. so if, if you know wherever you're at in the world, if all was shutting a service that previously was provided to the public at a, at a, at a reasonable and a low price gets privatize, it is actually erratic that you're going to pay more because the only reason why anyone would private jobs and it is in order to to have a monopoly and then you increase the cost and lead the public. that's what happens . on the other hand, if you have a, if you have

a monopoly that exists in the private sector over a, what should be a public service? the idea of municipal is ation is one that should only be taken if you can prove that people can save money because it's all about trying to help people make it through their own lives. so that the most important thing in their lives does not become having to pay utility bill. but look when your facial monthly bill, you have to pay it or whether it's coming from government or from the private sector. and i don't hold the belief that government can do everything it can. i don't want the government, you know, i am not a fan of socialism. communism capitalism. hey, i, you know, i'll ask you, i can be rheumatism. but i also say that we need to be mindful of what public policy does to the people when you permit for private monopolies to

control the price. if the public controls are, they can always go to our office if the price goes too hot. but if it's controlled by the private sector, they have no action whatsoever. who is, be mindful, that's quite a undistinguished for anyone having read this book because the fact that obviously what you just said that is not part of the public discourse. here's why i wrote a book, and if you find to be you for it and look what happened to you. just describe what have, i mean, also describe the levels of corruption that you see as being bused by the idea of any privatized defacto public monopoly. well, if you can, if you have an awfully and something of alarms in public, whether it's electricity, water, natural gas, or the transportation education on

health care, you know, i wrote the bill in the stage to provide for medicare for all single payer. now you can get a monopoly nigger price and, and, and get and so what happens, what happened clever is that the private utility subverted the city government you know, gave contributions to politicians so that they would vote their way. but there would be on it. they should burden the media, they use their advertising dollars to be able to get the media to say, whatever they want to say with respect to the city's public utility. so the media fell in line due to post on august 1st and attack the cities utility and the city is ability to run a utility, even though the city utility was making a profit were serving the people and behind the sage. and this is documented by the atomic safety licensing commission of the nuclear regulatory commission. behind the

scenes, the private power company was working to stop city council from approved from improving any kind of improvements to the city electric system. and it was determined later on they were creating outages. honda municipal system, there are blackouts that were created quickly during holiday seasons. and then the media would say she, you have an electric system doesn't work. you know, we had one that was being sabotaged. and this book is a story of corporate espionage, of corporate, sharon charge of the, of creating blackouts in the city all with the intention of grabbing a natalie an electric power and wiping out the city system. in cleveland, we have competitive systems, we have a private system serving part of the city and a public system serving part of the city. but the private power company wanted it all. i'll get to media collusion and why had to carry a starter pistol on you in a,

in a 2nd. but of course, what you just said that britain has a universal health care system which is funded with the half of the percentage of public money per capita. that they do in the united states, still it is a universal system. some people say there's a deliberate running down of nationalized systems just the way you put it there. so that people, certainly the elite of a middle class is start to stop using these public systems and off for private. and also it then allows people to say, see, it doesn't work when it's a democratically accountable. is this something that people around the world should be aware of? absolutely might be private interests. if they can gain control over was essentially a public service such as health care. again, you know, your price and you get it. now, just thing for a moment, the consequences of this were in a pandemic right now to affecting a whole world,

you know, in a country like america, which is really going to hit very hard by kroger. how much better we would be if for last few decades, we would have a public house who some more people would check in regularly and be able to monitor their health and make health care a not just a service, but make it a consciousness that people have so that we take responsibility for only the government can give a shout when we take responsibility for our own house. and we start to do things, improve our immune system, our ability to respond to diseases. you know that she hasn't done years ago. what about why hasn't been done, and why as job i have no, absolutely no intention, no avowed intention of doing anything like that. well, i think, you know, the political parties are controlled by corporate interests. and the democrats, unfortunately, went that way, decades ago,

and decided the only way they could get enough money to win elections was to do republicans. you're doing, and i was getting money from corporations and in the private health care interest. the private insurance can contribute miley to yours campaigns, that basically it's a pay to play system. it's almost an auction and they policy goes to the highest bidder. you know, it's pretty, pretty simple in that regard. i mean, even know, the great mass of american people would prefer to have access to health care to, to pay less and have a broader range of services. it's not happening and you know, i, i carry that flight forward in the united states congress for many years and there's the need is still very great in our country. i really feel sorry for so many people suffering because this system doesn't serve the people. it serves interest groups, dennis percentage. i'll stop you that more from the twice us to have

a great presidential contender up to this break. ah, ah a to see how these days because the answer to an engagement, it was the trail. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground.

ah welcome back. i'm still here with for us congressman dennis considers 53rd mayor of cleveland and twice democrat presidential contender. there's been a corruption scandal here in britain about cash for questions in the british parliament. what would you say to politicians around the world watching about why the corruption goes from taking a few tickets for a bowl game right up to having questions asked in the legislature? well, systems, our systems are corrupted. and i think many people go into public service with the intention of actual service because they, they care and people,

even those of integrity can find themselves in compromising situations. if there are political patrons ask for specific chambers as the consequences of dispensing those figures are not carefully considered. so i really look at it as the changes have to be made systemically, in order to make it possible for politicians to avoid the narrow occasions of being compromise and to work with. what does it mean if you're in public office? what it means is, don't take any money from anybody who's bound to ask you to do anything, not how you know that might cause some whiplash. when you think about it, but the actors what it comes down to, don't take any money from anyone who may ask you to do anything. well, i think by them the president of the united states is bankrolled arguably in the senate by the credit card industry. we have is on google,

boeing to up to you is gave money to his campaign. we you ever attempted to fagin a ticket for a ball game by a financial corporate interests that you suspected of having ail, terry much, if not, not a chance. let me say, i don't want anything if you go into public life looking to fill a hole in your soul. no, he's going to feel that. oh, no blandishments, no contributions, nothing about the way i look to look where it got you. in this book, there is a transcript from w k y c news of a hitman. i wanted to kill you quotes, we can't make a solution. that's what i was told. we can't by concealing he was cut from a different cloth. wow. did you find yourself wanting to keep a pistol and the after assess it as a police learn to matthew, hit them. well i,

i never, i never are myself. everybody was i, you know, they're still there. that story was a gun rights, i think was a started to pistol when i i'm no, no. and i that that was another story from another era that was i'll call it apocryphal. i to speaking of the challenge that i faced when i was mayor. but it was made very clear to me by police intelligent the connection between the assassination plot and my position in refusing to sell our municipal electric system to this private utility. you have to keep in mind that during this time, cleveland was the bombing capital of america because of wars between various factions, of organized crime, an organized crime, had penetrated into city government, into the banking community. and you know, unfortunately,

that the power that was exercise was such that you could pay a hit man $80.00 grand to kill a mayor. you know, the fact that i survived that. i was lucky. i mean, it was want to town for a high powered rifle shot. came to my house and i'm in right now. and i missed my head by fraction of a fraction period. and you know, i, i look, i like you to be right now, but i was lucky to get through that period without getting hurt. that obviously would event know, moving arguably of the entire democratic party animal progressive line in your presidential attempt to 24 and 20. 08 i just quickly on the media. you do talk about the u. s. corporate media being the handmade and of the corruption involved in privatization. well, from my experience and clearly it was early in my political career as

a city councilman, that i came into contact with an internal document of the cleaning, electric aluminum company. where they basically were bragging how they were using and manipulating the media in order to get positive coverage of the clean electric illuminated company and negative coverage of the municipal electric system owned by the people so much so that they were directly delivering editorials to read to to newspapers and to television stations and having them published verbatim, in order to be able to get their point of view across which total propaganda, that was corporate propaganda. and they were using it to undermine the public's right to be able to own their own electric system to keep electric rates low. so we can go over that little local paper there, arguably internationally. i have to ask about the fact that, given that this kind of thing is reported again and again in countries with neoliberalism,

that alone in the united states and the effect of privatization neoliberalism. do you think ironically in it? and the impact of privatization was something that steve bannon tapped into in that speech with donald trump, american carnage. and actually had the despair of the midwest of the united states . that, that came from this kind of, these kinds of actions you talk about in the book well, elected from, you know, let's talk about the, at westerman the midwest. was d industrialized. one of the reasons why we lost so many industry was the high cost of electricity, particularly because of these private utilities, raising a cost of energy to the rough. ok. now the over arching issue is a philosophical one. the mayor of cleveland, who founded our municipal electric system at the turn of the 20th century tom l. johnson. he said they should, i, i think that, you know, his words are,

were very eloquent and i want to repeat them. i believe in public ownership of public service, monopolies of water systems, of schools, electric systems, of parks and on. because if you do not own them, they will in time own, you know, corrupt your politics, role your institutions, and finally destroy your livers. now that was over a 100 years ago, there's nothing short of of frame involved here. and when people end up paying more and businesses end up paying more and industries and paying more, it created destruct and destructive economic undermining of people's lives period. could that quote from that predecessor of you as a matter of cleveland, cleveland be used as a extended to the military industrial complex. it owns you when it comes to the white house, one of my, one of my books in my library,

it is about the life of david eisenhower who was president of the united states when he, when he left the office in his valedictory stage, he warned about the influence of what he called the military industrial complex on the everyday life of americans is warning, you know, should be put in stone outside of public buildings across the country. because a, what's happened is that a larger and larger percentage of the budget of the united states goes for the military contracting. and in a way behind the scenes, it helps inspire wars and to keep us out. war it is a, it is a corrupt system that will take money that should be used for education, for health care, for feeding people and just give it to

a military contractors who will make sophisticated hardware that's trying to find a way to years. you know, i, i, i was right in the middle of that for 16 years. and i, and i refused to vote for budget, which ended up saving money from the american people and giving it to this big war machine. which just look for ways to keep things stirred up so they can find a way to use their products. i mean, you know, is there, is there a connection or any time any large corporate interest have great influence over a government? it cannot be to the benefit of, of the people that nation, but even the lobby, a sun k street, arguably didn't us the pentagon to us for 778000000000 dollars this year for the

military budget using joe biden thinks that giving them extra is of price, we're paying the same office. i mean, i know, you know, i because i will tell you, i think, you know, we make a mistake in personalizing this. i know because i know i know joe by the loaner for more 50 years. i don't, i don't say that he thinks the charge that you just express, but i do the fact that he has spent a fairly loyal servant of a system that supports that approach. and that that's a problem which a bipartisan problem. it's the reason why party politics doesn't work. the reason why the system is not serving the american people. well. that last national defense authorization appropriation that you mention congress plus that up about $27000000000.00 more than was even asked for. and so we wonder what is going on

here with, with all the needs that exist. now people can say, well, just keep printing money. well, we've got to look at our monetary system. and if we're going to do that, because within the context of the present monetary system, the way that the government's being run is i'm the inflationary. the basic needs of people still are, are being met. and i will tell you that we have a crisis which involves public confidence in government and in government leaders and, and the root of it ish that corporate interest. i have infiltrated the government and are actually calling the shots for policy. and just about every area of american life. well, some people to go to very rich. obviously during the pandemic, we often say on this program, 40000000, maybe more need food stamps to eat tonight in your country. if anyone reads this book, one is going to have to ask the question,

can change in your country be achieved peacefully, you sacrifice your health. you nearly died in the hospital. there was that mafia hits attempted. the levels of corruption. defamation can change in your country be achieved peacefully. of course, you know, i don't believe in revolution. i believe in spiritual evolution. cultures evolve if you get a chance to. yeah, i, the american system was set up so so that we could try to help a country adapt to an agree to the future. but it would help if we had public financing campaigns to take away the great influence that has existed by and from corporate interest. that would be a good start. but you know, our system is weakened by corporate influence. there's no question about it now. is there a way to break it? of course there is and then involves electing people are determined to do that. and

then was people actually getting involved that we sent a level there gog and becoming more aware. you know, it's going to happen overnight now. can it happen, of course, a chance. you know, the country's always had this capacity to break through. got, it all depends on, on who's on and who's elected. that's it for. what are your favorite shows of the season, the team, and i will be back soon with a brand new look. but until then you can keep in touch my role as social media, if it's available in your country. and remember, you can continue to watch all going on the ground episodes on odyssey and that are tito. come see very soon. lou needs to come to the russian state little narrative. i've stayed as i'm formerly most landscape, diva jimenez ingles,

something up with the group in the 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. when else about with we will fan in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machine. the state aunt rush up to date and school r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with me. we're told one of the hallmarks of western liberalism is the idea and practice of dollars. more specifically, it is said we should not judge an individual or group based on their race.