i think in alex's, mr. alexis, thank you very much for your time. you are. thank you for inviting me either paul cove nick once colonel of the yugoslav air defense myself for says, now you are a retired officer. back in 1999 when mater was ruthlessly bomb in belgrade you and asked mc serb, we're part of a unique operation in which they asked 117 night hawk style fighter jad of america's air forces was shut down. as far as i know, this was the only time when the aircraft of that type was lost in combat. how did that happen with richard? that night i was at the command post of the 200 and 58th air defense missile brigade, which was guarding belgrade, chief of staff. colonel dragon, stank, of which was the commander of the task force. my zone included the 3rd battalion, which was under the leadership of colonel dan,

is alton. we were in touch and he was telling me what he saw in his radar. and i was relaying to him the into that i got from our control and reporting center. at some point a target appeared and the intercept zone of the 3rd battalion. and i gave danny the order to shoot it down. as i said, did you know what the target was? yes. mean his lawyer took no, we didn't. it was just the target force. his team did a good job. and the next day we found out from the news on t v that we had shot down an f 117 night hawk stealth aircraft. the pride and joy of the united states air force. i guess the saying is true, we just didn't know that it was supposed to be invisible. so you learned about the success of your operation from the news? yes. from one who you feel at that moment. i mean cougar's pride. it's not every day that you get to shoot down a stealth aircraft. this happened for the 1st time ever. this helped on the emotional level by boosting the morale of the 3rd baton. it remained the most

successful battalion throughout the whole bombing operation. it food for 70 a days and didn't suffer any losses at that aside here. yeah. amazing. so as far as i understand, if he hadn't shut down the bomber, it would have carried out its mission rate. the samo nearly on us. it was coming towards our air defense command post, but it didn't succeed on its way out. it wanted to strike the 3rd battalion and ended up being shot down. the f 170 ne has a computer that tracks its route so it can avoid any threats. but they didn't know where our defense battalion was maneuvering and hiding. well, there was an imperative force. we were also good at diversion. some say that we used microwave ovens, those were not microwave ovens, of course we call them radio signal imitators. otherwise, do i show that they caused confusion when they used anti radiation missiles against us? we would turn on these alternative devices along with our actual raiders. these imitators

drew the missiles towards themselves, so our equipment stayed safe yarn trailing any military secrets i year. is this a well known tactic? this year's new vocal? yes, it is a well known tactic. who didn't come up with this idea. i actually don't know. maybe we were the 1st ones to employ it, but from what i understand russians were ready to sell us these devices while we manufactured them from whatever we could get our hands on. river boat raiders, old air craft raiders. i think that today it is a well known tactic. it happened back in 1999. yes. i see you brought a small piece of it, joe? yes, i brought a fragment of the f 117. a stealth aircraft. this part is from its wing. this is the so called honey come structure. it is very lightweight. this technology is well no noun. it is used in russian aircraft as well. this little of a white does look like a honeycomb thought. yes, a honeycomb. i'm here, where do you get a did you just to the crash site though?

oh yes, there were lots of those fragments there, but it mostly stayed intact. it didn't shatter. it was falling like a leaf. it fell in one spot and just one. when got 7, we had a hard time retrieving the swing from our roemer, people who had collected it because of its valuable metal. they were taking it away in a wagon. they even showed it on t v. how our roma people were transporting the pride and joy of the u. s. air force . and what happened to the pilot the all the pilot catapulted. he was scared of being captured, but it was in the early days of the wall on march 27th. the war started on the 24th . it was a quiet neighborhood of belgrade. the troops were in kosovo. we only had civil defense in the area. so american just came and rescued the pilot that night. we couldn't shoot them down playfully. we're hot out our range. we tried but failed, said he survived those, those are you. oh yes, he survived. he later visited serbia and apologized. he says he had no idea and now

his opinion has changed. his origins. i actually in yugoslavia, lavinia, his mother was from slovenia. his last name is aiko a to more. and why did he change his opinion with time though? i don't know. he met with danny's olden and in that meeting he said that bombing yugoslavia was a mistake. i don't know if he was sincere me, uncle. why did you shut down? only one. plane. me, raleigh. i think we shot many more. my brigade responded to enemy alerts 51 times, but those planes flew at 10000 meters and serbia isn't very wide. so those aircraft that we're head often managed to land outside our territory. they denied being shot down and we couldn't prove anything. some planes even made it back to their home air drums. they said there was an aircraft boneyard at the vienna air base, according to their instructions. damaged planes were no longer allowed to go on mission. so for us, i say ethan, i so what's moscow has always been stressing that the current conflict in ukraine

has a lot today with nate as expansion east. so and i'll say, do you see any parallels between what's happening today and what was happening in survey and the balkans 20 years ago? yes. who, who i do. there are very obvious parallels. i think what they did in yugoslavia was in preparation for a conflict with russia. they used us as a training ground to practice how to break up russia just like they broke up yugoslavia. i see that everything that had happened in yugoslavia is happening here now. for example, all these fake reports that i see everywhere now we had the same. there were used during yugoslav was 2 only back then we couldn't do anything about them. they did it to demonize serbia and all these fake reports were used as a pretext to bomb yugoslavia, such as the rock massacre which was a fake. it's the twin brother of the butcher massacre fake russian television has compared to the case of this rebrand. it's a massacre,

but the events and cerebral needs are, were different. you can't compare them in strawberry inn, it said there was a group of fighters whose deaths were presented as a result as a crime. no, that's the thing, not just to crime a case of genocide. suddenly there was a crime committed there to some serbian soldiers who engaged in that fight took revenge after their families had been killed when lots of serbians died. that was a crime and were aware of that, but there was no genocide, not a single woman or child was killed there, only men who were fighting. and they made a memorial cemetery there and have been bringing the remains from all over bosnia and herzegovina to bury that, to make a really big number of graves. they love us. so what do you think happened in the ukraine in town of buttah vegas, yours. i, it's a fake. i know everything about what happened there. i saw it. you showed it how 1st the dpr militia was there and how all was fine. and then how the nazi fighters said they need to kill everyone were white arm bands. i don't know why they didn't

remove those white arm bands. some questioned who those people were. if they wore yellow arm bands that would raise questions about who they were. and the mayor of butcher was very happy when the russian troops left a kick when the russian troops left the city, the ne, pasted some the days. indeed lucky. yes. and he wouldn't be so happy if such a massacre had occurred. the same things happened in serbia and every one in serbia knows what really happened while you see what the west is saying about the same events. no speaking of arctic asli they, it seems nature had some success there for you. yugoslavia is small and had no support at the time we had no allies. we were the only european nation that had to fight the american troops after world war 2. is the vacation different to day warrior was today, the situation is different rushes well prepared. it's one of the major world powers . i believe that the u. s. dominance has come to an end. russia must win ago. he

said, you think russia will win? what outcome would be considered a victory for russia? thank you. my. i think russia's command is doing a great job there. ukraine is a proxy of the west in its war on russia. naziism and fascism are on the rise in the west western democracy these days is nothing but nazi's mon essence. the as of battalion was trained by israel ex now, and they were trained by nature instructors. that's right. the same jews who were victims during world war 2 today are training nazi fighters. i have friends in israel who think this is an acceptable dissertation on the ground, is dramatic, of course, with lots of shelling, firing, death, and destruction. but there is also a massive information war going on. you mentioned before they seem to view that you can't find a way to follow our teen english or spoken in anywhere that co. now that's true. not in english was band. sputnik and serbian isn't banned, but it's been the target of endless d dos attacks and i haven't been able to read it even once. we follow our scene

russian every day was someone who is winning and who is losing this information or in your opinion, from a joy of the party, the sleeping, the information warfare is in fact losing on the ground. because the only thing they can do is produce fakes. we are a cartoon published once with one russian soldier saying to another with a sad face. we've lost the information war after the battle to take control of the white house in washington dc. time will show who was right, who's cause was just and who's wasn't ours is a just cause victory will be hours, especially with the coin optimism. thank you for being so optimistic. miss alexis, many countries to day face edge america press sherry, they are being pushed to choose whether they are on russia side or in ukraine's survey. it does feel that is pressure to for sure. yet, despite all the consequences and risks that survey a might face because of its disobedience, they, serbian people and leadership support russia. how do you know that you are on the

right side? with her? throughout the entire period of newton history? i see connections. everything that happened 1st in serbia happened later in russia, and when it started, it was never our fault. the majority of serbians consider russians, a brotherly nation. i don't know why, but i know that's how we all feel. we're brothers one big nation. so to say we're even cooled little russians of the balkans and that's no wonder. and that's just how it is. you can see that all other nations that were once liberated by russia's red army and were once parties to the warsaw pact and now on the opposite side against russia. no one has ever forced serbia. that's just how we feel that serbians and russians are brothers forever. watching like it, he wouldn't have thought young. meanwhile, i can say to day, if you would agree with you or serbia or official moscow, do you think they can come back one day later with apologies like that pilot of the

fight and that he shut down dead? can they come to say they just saw it all wrong? and i don't know, these are just one of cases in serbia. me also have the 5th column, just like in russia. it's a big problem for us. why are the west uses the 5th column to try and control us? it's really active these days. people say, this means that our president has chosen the right policy. we can all easily go out in the streets and chant our support for russia, but it's much harder for our leader. we are surrounded by hostile nato member states. how can we survive and such environment? is it i carry it? we fought in many, was there was a time, i didn't believe a major will. could ever happen again, but then i had to fight into conflicts. my father died in 1993 and sorry ever, we don't want any more, was serbia's population is shrinking. each new war took half of what had been left of us after the previous one. there aren't many serbs left here ration is really

good. where do you learn it? i am self taught one. it was your well them? yes, i did until year 2000 i could barely say a few words. and then i said to myself, i have to learn russian can to call this hell. my souls desire is the slavish culture that we share. it's the science, technology arts. it's a great civilization for me. russian language was due to the russian culture and science. i have a technical education. all the books i couldn't read before. later became available on the internet. i wanted to read the russian classics in the original. i read anna karenina, the brothers karamazov and serbian, and russian simultaneously to teach myself. and then we all got the internet and cable tv, and it helped me with my pronunciation. i had no speaking practice. this is the 1st time in great job, mr. alexis, i haven't ever talked so much in russian until recently. festive on vanessa alexis, thank you so much for your time. i wish you and all of us piece the sooner the

better. always. thank you. ah oh, was recently munoz carter to magna if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about a couple. don't put your human symbols on display a little space each night. all right, so you guys don't talk to strangers. i avoid noisy gatherings and rallies a marsh. we've eaten your

colleagues and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll rush a minute for a specific social with a with

hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things considered. i'm peter lavelle. the u. s. it's nato allies claim they are continuing to say massive military aid to ukraine. at the same time, washington appears to have no interest in a negotiated end to the conflict. this begs the question, what is washington's policy goals? could it be direct conflict with russia? ah, sucking the crane conflict and joined by my guest, john brawley in new york. he is a political analyst, as well as a former foreign correspondent in russia, in lake jackson. we have daniel nick adams. he's the executive director of the ron pile institute for peace and prosperity. and in london, we have marco gassett. he is international affairs commentator or a gentleman cross stock rolls in effect. that means he can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate, daniel, let me go to you 1st in lake jackson. i, my question in my introduction is very, very simple. what is washington's goals in this conflict here?

because this massive ascending of arms to ukraine, which nobody knows where it goes to out who's the end user, or if it's going to be sold on the black market. one, the problems with western coverage of this conflict is that ukraine is notorious for its corruption. i mean, it makes a corruption in russia blush. i can guarantee you that. so what is washington's goals here? because it seems to me that they're calling the shots. not mr. zalinski. go ahead. daniel, it seems to me, this is the most incompetent handling. major foreign affairs issue in the history of the world. i don't believe that washington has a clue what it's doing. the only thing that's driving the policy right now was the military industrial complex every week. now for the last 2 or at least 2 or 3 weeks, we see a new $800000000.00 military, a package going to ukraine. you know, after a while these $800000000.00 weekly checks are going to start adding up. right. so you have the u. s. sitting massive amounts of military last week,

the president. well, the president's people met with a top u. s. military manufacturer saying, hey guys, you've got to ramp up production. they said great. the ceo of raytheon has been open about what a massive profit this is turning out to be for his shareholders. you seeing a policy driven not by us national interest, but by the special interests of the military industrial complex and the special interest of people like victoria newland who let's not forget is ukrainian and she's got to be with the country or for origin. and she's fighting it out on the world battlefield and the rest of us were having to pay the price for it. yeah. and john, i don't see how the ukrainians benefit from all of them, but i suppose i'm being too picky. go ahead, john. yeah, i mean, at this point, ukraine is just the protectorate of the united states of the nato empire. and it's just a tool to strike at russia. and i agree with what daniel said,

but i would like to add, let's not forget the ideological component here. moscow, russia, as a country that openly says it protects traditional values, is the arch enemy of the global as liberal order. so there is a very important component here, and they want to destroy a lot of important rule, and they would like to destroy russia. so this is really, i don't want to say it's not yet a total war because a total, what would be direct confrontation between nato and russia? but it's just short of a total war. and the goal of nato is to destroy russia. they, i've spoken to people at the council and they really believe that they're going to win. they're going to destroy russia, and it's going to break up into different different regions, and then they, then they will be able to control and exploits. yeah, marco, i seem to remember the recently departed madeline albright asking, well, why should russia have siberia? echo? who it with john just said there, john, just before you go to marco,

is it i agree with you? it's a civilizational war. ok, i think that that's a component most people don't understand. well because they're, they're ideologically obsessed and blinded. i would say, you know, marco, you know, you hear this theme. i'm just completely bewildered by the ukrainians are winning the ukrainians are winning. there is no evidence of that whatsoever. and it seems to me that these people like victoria new and are willing to fight russia indirectly to the last ukranian. and i don't think that's an exaggeration. go ahead, marco and london. they are and the longer the battle goes on, the more ukrainians will be eliminated from the planets. so it's a war indeed, as you say to the last ukraine and indeed to the last amounts of ukrainian currency, valuable to return on to the land lease act by which a lot of this age. so cold is a pairing. are you creating lots of playful? most of it with money don't have having being stolen in the 90s by oligarch sending

the 2 thousands by the western near liberalization policies. they was forced to follow. so this is really a war that is for you crime curtains in many ways unless it reaches a negotiated deal soon. if it does that, it has a future of it. it's only going to cost not much of $1.00 either. daniel, i also said in my introduction to do they want to conflict with rush, i mean total out out now conflict because it's very much in the cards because you know, you hear this, you know this article 5 article 5. ok. well, it's not so simple because if nato countries are sending arms the ukraine than they are co belligerent and then that doesn't that make them fair game in this conflict, we have to remember, ukraine is not a member of nato. you know, article 5 is not very clear here because article one is not being applied to meaning not getting involved in the offense of conflict here. i mean, again, the public is, is misled here because at a certain point,

the rushing to say you're sitting in weapons to kill our troops. i mean, we're going to stop that. ok. you, when warned, go ahead. daniel. that's literally the case in any conflict anywhere in history. it's always been the case. if you are arming the person, the country, that's killing our people, you are at war with us. and the thing that's most disturbing about this, peter, is that to this point, vladimir putin for better or for worse, has done everything. he said he would do. he's made good on every promise, every threat. everything that he said last week, the russian government warns the u. s. a sent an official diplomatic letter saying stop sending weapons to ukraine and the u. s. as it did in december, when the russians proposed a new security architecture for europe. again, they laughed russia off the stage and so there's a huge danger with u. s. officials up up again refusing to to listen to anything. the president putin has said to discount it because that is

sleep walking us into a direct conflict. it's only, it's, i don't know what it is, it's keeping russia from. bombing, for example, may be a staging ground in poland or in the czech republic, because as you say, these weapons are being used to kill russians. i and there's an under the laws of war justification for stopping it. i don't know how far it will go. i don't know how far prudence patience will be on this. you know, marco, i, i an, a number of, um, media venues. i said before the conflict started, is that this is very simple when you're looking at what the kremlin has to say, they don't bluff, they act. and daniel just gave us the background about in december and in january all through february, the russian was saying, we're not kidding. we know we've sent you some proposals. you don't seem to take them seriously, but we are serious and we will take measures and you know what they did, so that the fact that there, shrugging this off now, is just idiocy. go ahead,

marco. well, it may be in a world of their own old use really because that to go back to the previous point about the message, the ukraine is winnie or western. i mean, there are about a 150 p r companies directly from washington and london losing with care feeding them the script, the victory script to the mantra. so keep everyone motivated. so that's well in a way that they are listening to themselves and a biopsy, and all of the voice is pretty much from the west of a wage. so it's not surprising in a way that they believe their own message, which they constantly repeat. well, obviously the reality is that russia is in the winning and willing to take the solution if it's not negotiated. so i would encourage the ukraine to stop reading the west, the mainstream media watching, and to stop actually negotiating in seriousness. so reach a piece that everyone can actually agree on,

i'm the which will end the violence of the blood sugar, which is which the ukrainians are now the main categories. you know, john, one of the things this media blackout and throttling r t is a very good example here, is that the western media doesn't really want to talk about the nature of the regime in care of the political forces that are in play. the number, you know, obviously i've said many times in this program, but most people don't know that almost all of media has been nationalized in ukraine. political opposition has been outlawed. these things don't make it to be because we're fighting for you grange democracy. well, it's not and you know what, they had a democracy was overthrown in 2014. again, that doesn't seem to see through. you know, this isn't an amazing over the top propaganda program that the likes we've never seen. i mean, this is 2003 interactive pales in comparison. go ahead, john. i understand why you're so startled and we all are. but it's finally time

for us to say that this is all obviously very deliberate because it's a deliberate policy of waging war against russia. they do not care about the truth . they do not care when i say they, the establishment in the western country, the natal country did not care about truth. they do not care about freedom and democracy in human rights. they just have one goal, destroy russia, at any cost. we just have to again, i understand why just thought that i am to, but we have to stop being startled. just to understand what their goal is. daniel did. the aim is to destroy russia. any, at any cost, even if it impacts their own citizenry in the west. because that's quite obvious right now. daniel. well, pollutants price like, you know, i just wonder, every time i go to fill up my car, every time i go to the store, i see putin's price. i, you know, americans are not very patient with things like this. on the president said, there are 2 reasons why you're paying more cove it and put,

and i just wonder how long they will be patient with this mantra as it starts state home. you know, all of the wars that america has engaged in. in the past 30 years, they've never impacted americans direct, right? they've all been hidden in the fed printing money out of thin air. americans haven't had to pay. this is the 1st time they're actually having to pay up front in an indirect, but relatively direct way. so we'll see how long they'll be patient for this. the problem in the united states is we don't have an opposition party. we have to pro war parties. republicans are running on being more pro war than the democrats. so there is no alternative right now in the united states. we're single party state. well, you know, it's interesting. as the 2022 elections come up, there was an empty lane and of course never count on the republicans for did to do the right thing. never count on a male always, they'll always let you down. okay. and is because public opinion is against this. ok. but of course, the republican leadership is tone deaf. i gentlemen,

i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the ukraine counseling state with with ah, a

ah, welcome back across like were all things are considered on peter bell to remind you were discussing the ukraine conflict with his go back to marco in london, marco a few years ago, before he passed stephen cohen was on this program, it was such a pleasure to have him on john mearsheimer was also on. and he was talking about the possibility of a world war 3, a new killer conflict, nato against russia. and i kind of pushed back gently against that. and he said, peter, i am very, very serious. we're on that path. prescient. at that, do you think one of the things that really bothers me, i mean, i remember the anti war movement in the 1980s. you know, intermediate missiles, all that, remember that very well. ok. and it seems to me look at the rhetoric,

the, the, the very reckless rhetoric that comes out of the political class, particularly in the united states in the u. k. b. that they're the both the worst you k is the worst of the worst actually. um, they don't seem to, they seem to have forgotten the, the, the terror that we had in the 1080 is of a new killer war. you remember like threads and the day after and all that, i mean, we were terrified. they don't seem to care, they seem to be immune to it. i mean, we even have members of congress a, everything's all the table every day. you know, i mean this rambo, type rhetoric is just, you know, it's very dangerous marker. what happened to the public it really is very strange. the public effectually has disappeared from the schools. but the, i really real with astonishment when i hear some pronouncements from you k positions as well. everybody talking about imposing no fly zones on puts in over the ukraine. and so it is astonishing to me that they could it all syrian seriousness be talking about this. i.