needs indonesia, this he has host for the occasion invited everyone including vladimir putin, a decision that turned out as unpopular as you'd expect. and the current climate on the question of the g 20, i will just say this. we believe that it cannot be business as usual for russia in international institutions and in the international community needs to be clear. and we are with canadians, and with each other as we did when we left the g 20 meeting. when we left the i m f. c plenary that we simply will not be part of meetings while russia is seeking. russia and russians have been ostracized at such scale already. that discovering new ways to discriminate seemed impossible, but some succeeded. several weston finance ministers left a meeting when it was the turn of their russian counterpart to speak. modern

western diplomacy has been ripped of all undertones, all dexterity outsmarted your political rivals. made way for crude bull headed with or against us. approach with sanctions were at the ready for the latter order was either curse, young were the g, 20 and related international institutions or platforms to discuss international, economic and financial issues. not occasion for formal discussions on the ukraine issue. the us and its allies are so hell bent on, shunning russia, they crip other nations who have more than one point on their agenda are what it, what a delete did make clear to his counterparts during this visit was that we don't believe it's in india's interest to accelerate or increase imports of russian energy and other commodities and actual mobster couldn't have come up with a more cliched thinly veiled threat. at the same time, ukraine is as much in fashion as it can be. at today's g 20,

i warmly welcomed ukraine's finance minister, sir gamer, jenko. i also underlined that the e u strongly condemns rushes unprovoked and justified military aggression against ukraine, which undermines international security instability. it's diplomacy 2 point oh, we're g. 20 may very well be renamed into g to the number of member nations is utterly relevant. what matters is, if you're against russia or not. well that is a rock for this all monies pizza, scott, me back again in about 30 minutes with the latest news and views here on oxy international hope. see you then thank you ah ah ah

hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm funeral labelle, western media, pundents and politicians refuse to say the quiet part out loud. the conflict in ukraine actually has little to do with you claim itself. this conflict is united western front against russia. this means when the war is over, it will be on moscow's terms. any time ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm join mom, i guess, here in moscow, dmitri so soft, he's the deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies with the higher school economics. and we have a row. he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap poll. i gentleman crossed up rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i appreciate it. all right, let's start with the me treat demitria it's. i find a really curious of the last couple of new cycles. we have the ukranian prime

minister saying the war, they're winning the war and they will win the war. it will be over soon. and then you have one of the biggest cheerleaders of this conflict, a country within nato, the british prime minister boris johnson in many publicly in front of media that ukraine is most likely going to lose this war here. so, i mean, can you kind of square the circle for me here because the banks, the question, if the british prime minister doesn't think this war is going to be one on terms that he finds acceptable, then why are they even pursuing it? because isn't this fighting a war to the last ukranian your thoughts? oh, 1st i fully agree the desire a national, the west is really to fire this war until the last ukrainian because this was indeed multiple to this war is about getting russia out from the position of great power. and thus restoring the leadership of the united states and the west,

the war has already contributed to consolidation of the western restoration of american goals in europe, in a way which was unprecedented over the last, i will say 30 years. and it is really about american lives, this really about such an international water in which the united states would restore, is position as a global leader. thus, whether you agree is defeated, you know, in the near future or in the long term future. i mean, your premiums die, it really doesn't matter. the purpose is to insource process militarily economical or undermine it political or thus the west is interested in this war going on as long as possible. it is very, i think important that we have not heard any direct and explicit war from the

united states that they support these agreements that they want to piece agreement as soon as possible. you know, there was some speculation about that, let's say from paris, mark wrong, told a few supports the disagreement also of course, out of the, you know, the leaders who maintain bias, russia, china, india, they all claim that the ones piece agreement as soon as possible. but more from the united states and the major airlines from the united states, because this is the regular offices. the interest is endless combination of this war and can i, station of ukraine. thus we face increase all the supply. so reference that we're face constant pressure over over the world for the countries to reduce their cooperation with

russia. and we face the further increase in survey. it was interesting, the new cranium president zalinski a couple of days ago said that i guess he make, he can make demands right now. he wants the west to pay ukraine, civil servants salaries and $7000000000.00 a month or something like when you want them or to keep going. you know, and i mean, that sounds like a really good grip here. but on a more serious note, i think it's kind of counter intuitive when you think about it, because we get, we have the ukranian side saying, these are the mariel, you know, mary, also we will not be in negotiations with the russians. if this happens, we won't be in negotiations. if this happens, you know, the same story over and over and kind of reminds me of december, january and february when the russians were trying to communicate with the west. but the, the refusal on the part of the ukrainians to negotiate with the russians. basically,

as i said in my introduction, it really allows russian to determine when the war is over and under what terms. i mean, they're not, you know, the west is using ukraine is as a forum to get it russia and even the ukrainians have kind of, you know, walked away from their own agency by not being in engaged in some kind of negotiation. presumably would be in their interest, go ahead. actually, you know, because of the stubborn a lensky and the west situation for ukraine as a state will be worse. for instance, months ago the, the, him, the war from russia was clear. it was then as education demilitarization and from the korean side recognize korea and the independence of both republic. but 2 days ago it has changed already. so no russia up in the said that they will take

control of the source part of the ukraine. so, so no, the russia is clearly talking about creating on the last year, the worst, the worst nightmare for the west. and it will be worse if zelinski and the with the can't understand the current situation. and something is very interesting as well. and i saw it on the, on the french channel that the expand has during a almost 2 months is the russian army destroy. and the doctor couldn't want to finish before the 9th of may and couldn't do it and put the never said. and these are put in, nor the minister, the mystery of, of defense. never said that they want to finish on the 9th of my and know what it explains at this. of course you destroy army, but we are going to take the house of ukraine. and if you continue what it means, so you,

so the 1st proposal was refused. so this is the 2nd one is worth of the 1st. and if you don't understand the worse, so we will take both sides of the never that that's, that's or the reason of this stubborn politic from the, from the west, from, from that. because of course, it's not a war between russia and ukraine. it's a war between russia and nato in ukraine. that's exactly what happened. no. dmitri, one of the way i look at this here is that this is a lease from the ukranian western side. this is just one really massive propaganda campaign because the, this is they, they want the west once a propaganda victory because a military one is simply not in the cards and, and that's what makes it very asymmetrical. one of the things i find very curious, i'd like to know what both of you think. why should we assume that these armchair

generals in the west that haven't one wars for 30 years, they understand rushes war aims, other than the notification and demilitarization both can, you know, you can look very deeply into those. but there's in those 2 goals are very intentional, they don't really show very much. so what i've always said to people, and i get a lot of pushback, obviously, is that you, since we don't know what the, the end game, what the, the, the, the, the russian side has in mind for ukraine. you cannot really understand the process of the military campaign and so if you don't understand the end game, you can understand the start and the middle part of the game go ahead meter. well 1st i think that no matter how much a reference of the west requires to your grain, it will not be able to radical shift the balance of power simply possible. i am, there is no way for your grain. even with all the western support. a,

you know, with sharing and so forth to, with this war it's, it's just impossible. and this makes the western position. so cynical, of course they understand that your greatness for failure to, you know, either sooner or later, but it is due for failure. and they're just extending this anthony, i deliberately allow more people on both sides to die. and more students are going to suffer because of course, they also view the i fully agree on the propaganda side of the informational dominance in the global media is one of the very few instruments of power which is almost fully possessed by the west. no, they are losing nuclear, they have already lost millions. they are losing financial dominance because the

area of the dollar, a nation global resource currency and exchange currency. and right now they are also, there also was a political dominance. before the overwhelming majority of the north western countries in such great china india, brazil, middle eastern conference, latin american congress did not join sanctions. i, they're actually strengthening their relations with russia most decreasing. so the only instrument which is still in almost full possession of the west is information creating these narratives in the global media they're doing. i agree, you know, there is the narrative that they have nothing to do with reality because i remember the day defines the russian regional russian and gave

s complete occupational. you know, i was talking about a all in 24 hours and all that. you know, exactly. i mean, i find it really astounding. if we look at afghanistan, we look at iraq, we look at syria, how these people can even show their face in public. ok, look, look at the fall of kabul, everything was fine in afghanistan until it wasn't ok. and these people are talking about what rushes military. and i mean, i've never understood why any kind of occupation of care would be necessary at all . ok, absolutely. and now your why don't says, you know, we will not allow roster to buy the whole of you who is ever sad about the russian to occupy your grade. especially provided. i mean, even the very limited number, of course the brush is using in your brain. very limited. ok, but oh no,

but there are shortages and they're asking china for help it desire, you know, actually what did russia, they started an operation in 4 direction. they observed, and they saw that in a 3 direction of things going very well and very quick, very fast. so this is decided to concentrate the forces in the place where it's a most easier it's, it's your rule. it's nothing surprising. it's doesn't mean that the doesn't want to to that it says if there is a failure in the north of credit is completely different. but you see the difference between the rec and forces. and the reason for see is that the, you can fuss is lead by a communication team. that the reason why they sacrifice with troops in the report . they refused to evacuate them to fight in another line. ok, this is what a military i should have done. but in russia is exactly the country break. and

after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on your current state. ah ah ah ah ah ah

welcome back to crossed up. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. this is the home edition remind you were discussing some real news. ah, let's go back again. here in moscow, we were talking about the how rush is pursuing opperation in ukraine and i and we had to go break. so finish up, go ahead. yeah, no, just i would like to tell that the tina leading the ukraine forces article finished communication teams. that the reason why the sacrifice troops in my you, paul, when they were able to move them up to the west to fight again. but they don't want to lock my upper. exactly. i'm not comparing hitler was in ski. ok. it's just a point of view for operation. exactly as the same that it can refuse to move the

german troops in the back of countries because said, but if we move the about, the countries means that we lost the war. and so at the resolution, go to berlin and the germans, the demand troops couldn't to fight any more, does the end of the war. so it's exactly the same. on the contrary, on the russian forces, this is the military were leads operations. and you saw that, for instance, in kiff, of course, or the honor communication point of view. it was a fellow for russia, because a kiff could pretend that they start to control infants even. that's all. but actually a vladimir putin doesn't care of that illegally gives the lead to the military. and so that of the forces to bring them to the for the men operation. the men operation is the east of you quinn for to reason. first of course is the question of liberating gun bus. and the 2nd point it because the army zucker arm

you were about to invade dawned, us is all concerted on this at this place. and again, zalinski and of course, is our sponsors. there doesn't want to move the recurrent army to move them to the west to try to, to build a new line of defense. there will lead them a dizzy hand in several. don't ask in you see chance it's love just because i don't want to lose the communication we're but on the reason side, i don't care of losing a check or were when there will be in the public trust in the or at such a good point in time, you know, me go back to dmitri here. i mean, you know, obviously it's my job to cover western media on this topic. and i've been, you know, unlike western media, i've been covering this ever since the, my, the qu on the my done in 2014. and so the context is very real and meaningful to me . and obviously for both of you here. but there's very little

commentary about who is it, who has influence of the in regime. and can we have these a soft group? we have private sector. we have, we have a really maligned group groups of people that are turned into freedom fighters, which in fact they are not ok in the intelligence service they asked you b, even before the military conflicts started on february 24th of this year, there was a scathing criticism of their behavior as a secret police, very much along the lines of the stars in east germany. please tell us a little bit more about that because that's really a black hole in the coverage of this conflict. or 1st, i will read it, discuss the issue of the west grading narratives, which are very little with the yellow america for democratic government in ukraine is precisely why you know, because 1st again,

joe biden is wired, lou talking about a democratically elected government to new grade here we have to be are in mind that the current regime in ukraine emerged as a result of it as a lot of cool. right. so yeah, physical is in the ascii was a letter, but the whole regime came to power mode as a result most through the credit process. and secondly, especially already before the beginning of the russian special operation. but especially during witnessing a red cross formation of this current res, in gear, towards a staunch dictate, i will say, comparable to the theater ships and central asia in the previous case. most even today, we're going to what we're doing is political part is being bullied and political

rivals been put into prison, or maybe the torture persecuted. right. all the opposition is being burned down completely. any one, both among the political elite in the society who does not share the mainstream is being interrogated and persecuted, right? then people are in danger. they can no longer have to point out to me is that the media has been nash, virtually on media, has been nationalized. and so there is no freedom of speech in the part of the brain which is under the control of the machine. right now. i am, this is the real which is completely missed by the west who continue to create the picture of the struggle, you know,

between the bad it's been so hold off right there in russia. and so my credit cream, you know, in fact, it does not match the real to you know, exam da. yes, i would like to add that there is 2 men. opponents. 2 are lensky. the 1st one is maybe the truck is in jail. the 2nd one is a natalie sherry is an example in spain. and oh, and actually it, and it didn't stop because of the war because a year ago already zelinski close 3 tv channel. because there were a provision is supposed to be push on channel. and there was supposed to belong to mit which hook, and actually it took sanctions, again is all citizen. so know the care for him is origin when you can send people to j, you can a sits without any court just taking the decision from the with because the prince decided, and the prince know, is a lensky. so of course, it's not

a democracy, is just a, it's just addicted to a country. because of course, when you should not agree you will be interrogated. and what is it very interesting is what happens. know, in the source of ukraine. we're the region where the russian immediately the control, i mean a person region. and the 2 sort of the pros, origin knows there is a military civilian administration from the russian side. and people are very happy using rouble. they can again speak russian in the street in the school. in the university. we don't been being a 3 than we are getting a penalty. so in my opinion, is that the russian need to do, and i would like another example, if you are, if you allow me know that the city of cooper and is about under 30 kilometers interest of rock of was immediately taken by the russian because of the local,

may i say ok, don't destroy anything. we will cooperate with you. and what did the s b u z kidnapped her daughter his his daughter, and they fit in the him. and so he had a 2 megabits on you can find it easily on the ent and it's saying that e zelinski is responsible for what will happen to his daughter. so this is a live liver. we are know, you look at the look at some adventure when you with song by s b, u is he was kidnapped, i think maybe 3 weeks ago. and it's clearly that the, the condition where he leaves know, are very hard for him. and it's even a shame showing a domain, again, is a main resilience is open and look at him. it's exactly is a symbol of what the shift key regime he's know. yeah. well, you know that that's all part of the narratives that dimitry has been mentioned on this program already. another a narrative that is actually again,

very counter intuitive. so the west sanctions, russia sanctioned like no other country. and we've talked about sanctions on iran and north korea been right, is under a sanction here. but you know, everything that goes wrong in the west, immigration inflation, a supply chains. and it's also the religious as a you sanctioning. you cause all these problems for your own people and then you say, but it's the russians call it what is the boot and price i, it's, i like to call it here. i mean, again, it's really, this is really just a propaganda campaign because if you get down to it, ok, so you want to cut off russian energy. so you take that energy off the market, the price goes up, the russians make more money for. i mean, i don't know who's thinking about these ideas because the more they push, the more they hurt themselves. and they're having a very difficult time. because i think, personally, there's going to be a lot of social unrest in the west because of this. this is, and the sanctions,

no matter what happens are not going to go away any time soon. metering. well, i say that this process of social or, you know, the inflation a united states is unprecedented for the last 3 decades. i and it's going to be worse, no better or worse, the more sanctions dos the west apply to worse is the domestic condition, but also the worse is the state of the global economy. you know, what drives me is for instance, the latest statement by the minister of finance of the g 7, which was a doctor last week, claims for ridiculous the sanctions against russia award designed in a way that there are a global. i mean,

this is just the staunch line from a to set the course precisely, the anti russian sanctions. and the result of the increase of their price is the major reason behind the increase of the price. no, because we started that of the car is full of economics. and over the last 50 years there is absolute dependence, direct absolute dependence between the price of oil and the price. you know, they just follow the unrest and social and rest. of course a, you know, the full deficit the price would result in the famine. in the 3rd world in africa. again, already know of the g. 7 countries are trying to put the blame on the roster.

whereas in fact, they are the responsibility because it is their attempts to establish new oil embargo on russia, which results into the price. i right? yeah, uh i like to global the com to finish on this we just uh the reports coming out of the u. k. now that the upcoming winter, if things remain the same, is that they're going to be extreme fuel insecurity for the average britain who would have thought that for a g 7, g, 20 country. but that's where we are gentlemen. as all the time we have, i want to thank my guest here in mosque. i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time remember ah, ah,

ah, a ah, a new nation. and this is the see every single village taken from ukrainian troops with us fighting in the don't boss. region continues and artsy, crew visits, an abundance school used by ukrainian troops as a defensive position. also coming up ah barricades buyers and violent clashes with the police as seen on the streets of paris under the french cities incumbent president micron when the presidential race .