crossing propaganda, i am joined by my guest carlin nixon in washington. he's a political analyst and providence. we have latimer goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and and also we have bjorn nice that he is an author and head of kaleidoscope russian information center are joan in cross sack rules and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want and i always appreciate a vladimir, let me go to you 1st here. american officials really reveal themselves when they're asked about the conflict in ukraine. in one a good example. as they say, secretary defense lloyd austin, in care of, he was asked about america's aims and all of this. and he said the u. s. hopes, russia will be quote, unquote, weakened by the war. ah, what does that have to do with ukraine per say. other than, you know, it is a proxy go head vladimir inadvertently. you're asked for a bargain propaganda in it for granted meets that they go there. their purpose is not so much into using the beast between the 2 warning, you know,

countries not bringing them together, but actually is and gauge and very heavily financed for oxy war with russia and a purposes to direct russia deeper and to weaken it. so we have a total to come to the, to the germs whereas diplomacy and these to patient diplomacy proposes some kind of negotiation for the sake of peace, these or visit does not weaken the country. so, you know, on the one hand, you know, nato countries in the west as were one. these were ones, she's, she's a hostility, but the other hand, they a store in trouble, they are supplying more and more weapons. they have, you know, booting and threatening and doing all sort of thing is russia in order to, for the war to escalate. so it's, it's really confusing, but unfortunately the western public do not look here. this will say he has something different day in day out that poor, innocent ukraine. this is dave. it has to challenge the, you know,

almighty goliath, that's the story which they bush, but behind the behind the scene is quite or was it? yeah. but garland me pointed out on this program a number of times, i mean we go back to 2014, after the legal overthrow, the democratic government of unit coverage. and then crimea left the don bass left . and now we have this conflict that started on february 24th and looking at the military conflict here, i think we should say the obvious that ukraine gets smaller and smaller. the more in the west supports this government in camps. i mean, i don't, i don't see what the ukrainians are getting out of this here. in fact, if, if in fact, it is a proxy war, president zalinski is demanding that the u. s. coff up $2000000000.00 a month just and you know, descended over will. so, you know, we'll, we'll send you a receipt later. i mean, this is getting absurd. go ahead. garland of 2 things. you know,

i think we err if we view prayer. vladimir zalinski as the president of ukraine. he is an actor and he does nothing other than what he's told to by his masters in washington dc. that's number one. i think also on it, we have to view ukraine as a proxy war against russia, but it serves dual proxy purposes in that the united states is at war with russia slash china slash multi polarity. so that the idea that the concept of weakening russia is so that it would be easier to confront china and ultimately let's not forget even india, which i think they're smart enough to know they have aspirations of being a world power. at some point they have the population, they have the industry in the technology, and eventually, you know, they know that their number will come. so this is about weakening any potential powers that could threaten u. s. world to germany. and right now they're starting with russia. the ukraine beyond, in our slow, if we take lloyd austin's words to heart, you know,

he wants to weaken russia, but it seems to me it's weakening europe as a result as well. i mean, is that an american goal? i mean, obviously they want to have a gemini over europe, and they don't want you to be competitors, but i don't see how the europeans win in this type of scenario. go ahead in oslo. it's this is obvious. one of the american, the goals is to have a conflict between germany, do european union and, and russia to stop burton deliveries of gas oil and all the hood and natural resources. trump just shut the door money. and of course, this wouldn't be in your money. it would be in europe and then, but it was presumably distinct, num, america. so this is obviously one will the aim. so this war and that the, the americans and all the rest and how were suited bates are against

a russia. but the, i think that are old, the aim sussman. i think the aim over american although, hey tom, this is not just to propaganda it fixed in the ukraine, but the, you victory, they hope to win this war. and then then they would start an older war, aggression against the russia, if it russia should lose in the ukraine. americans on there i, loss of it will do the same to russia as that it is the former yugoslavia that they were started to split the country. so this is an existence gina to, to russia ever since that so called end of the called the war. the aim of america as into crush m is split the ocean and then for the, for the city, since in the does it have been a, it's bounded. yeah. i've had this a coup in the ukraine, and the american said, done everything possible to,

to provoke it. boy in the ukraine, it looked like they weren't patasha, it means agreement. slip of they encouraged them the ukrainians to to start what was eating an attack on the gun boss if it at a shad not the act that the military it dump also noted would have been done. it's been a median. this is and says it, city and populations it would have been occupied by your train and forces and you, with catastrophic assistant situation so that the americans forced to her russia through the academic military. and of course, is the so called the ukrainian, the president, this has been an american off, it went with the, the result was the latter mirror. and this is what we have led to believe that there was going to be a ukrainian attack on the don bass. hence they had the vast majority the ukrainians out is the mass majority of their military in the east. well, it's been just completely cut off from the west. they keep talking about winning

vladimir winning, winning this war. but the war is already lost, but one more that they were killed, they do seem to win. is the propaganda war? because that's, if you look at cable tv, what you see is a propaganda war. you don't see a real war. go ahead. vladimir. yeah, there is definitely in reality and narratives. and unfortunately, today's world, you know, who controls in energy if you know, control controls reality. so i think it's are, you know, until eventually reality actually looks into our faces in heats our face. but what i'm being is just narrative and that it was very strong, you know, innocent gradients analyst amount of be just a bomb houses that were on extra to this bomb houses weren't on bus in 2015. yes, ma'am. they are gullible, western public by the speak just and thinks that you know this, you will, russian empire, which is always he will. and it is always up to some mischief is destroying

innocent lives. so this is propaganda by this program. it can be a big city, in other words, for how long this life can go on. remember, for example, how united states decided to support in again is done support that kind of the most outrageous kind of island people, including the latin who was fighting that they gave them all the weapons exactly like, you know, nowadays in the great. and then these guys john against united states and then united states got involved in another denison well, for 4 years. so this propaganda, the danger propaganda. what is it eventually the, the, the, a is begin to believe their own lives. and the ones that this happened, they don't do with alice your own. oh yeah. well, because the is long as you have a narrative without context, you can get away with just about anything. garland, i'm glad that vladimir brought that up. you could mention afghanistan. yes. supporting the worst part of the elements of society. the breakup of yugoslavia, libya, syria, you know, on and on and on. it's the same playbook. and now we have these nazi like

characters that are deeply embedded in the ukranian military and security apparatus in the government. and the u. s. once again, their money. we've seen this hor picture before. it always ends badly. garland or one of the things that's happening to here that i think is important is to understand that there is economic pain in the west, including the united states. the, you know, when we talk about the information war, when we talk about the propaganda war, we have to remember it is aimed at the people of the united states. it is aimed at the people in europe. and it's at the west specifically because if these people knew the truth, they wouldn't support the activities that their government is carrying out. because it's not in their best interest in any way, shape or form. i do believe that time is not on the side of these. i mean i, we use the words neocons, but let's be honest. they're just fascist. and it's only reasonable that these fastest would be aligned with the fastest in the, in, in, you know,

whether it's afghanistan or ukraine. but i think times not on their side, because as the economic pain rises in the united states and in europe, the people are going to ask their leaders to address that economic pain and the incompetent, hapless bunglers that are trying to model their way through this particular a problem, the crisis in ukraine are wholly unable to address the problems at home. and i think the problem that to us in our empire is going to have is uprisings at home, uprisings in europe and being unable to hold their coalition together. it would shock me, you know, if they can make it through the end of the summer into the fall. if not that when it gets cold, the empire is going to have to start looking in where to save itself. well we, we do have reports for british media talking about fuel insecurity. i haven't heard that one before. there's a lot of insecurities where now we have fuel insecurity. one of them,

one of the most prosperous countries in the world with millions and millions of people in britain will be facing fuel insecurity. if this issue hasn't been resolved about a russian energy to europe and it's self inflicted my friends, they decided this. they don't want this commodity. no one is forcing them to import it. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on propaganda staying with ah ah, ah ah ah, ah, a

ah, with a doubles are going to put well, talk you about a week with a

choice issue, somebody over there. both those with you up on video will lock you up for you a yeah, and i do so as you know that way they don't like oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer?

high selection community, are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere which direction? what is true was is great. in the world corrupted, you need to descend. ah, so join us in the depths will remain in the shallows. ah, ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you we're discussing propaganda with . okay, let's go back to be learned in our slow born. i mean, as a european yeah. how do you take and how are we? are people in your country viewing this attempt to completely utterly cancel russia

in every sense of the term? i mean, it's literature, it's music, it's athletes, everything. i've never seen anything like this on this scale. you know, it is, it's a collective guilt and apparently, you know, that was something we shouldn't apply to all individuals of one group. and that's exactly what's happening here. it's really remarkable for me to see western liberalism really show their true, intolerant face. go ahead beyond yes i'm, i'm at some reaching and that i missed her. i'm just, i can just say that i am ashamed. i in of the way rushes than most and today's, even in norway it russians are depicted like didn't. law says depicted russians in the region, mass media are not, not just against the cool in the russian political system or russian foreign policy and so on. but the russians are described as no humans at the, at the what,

what the dorman loss is called the own that mention not, not, not the humans so that he did demise. and we have a, had the in to use with ukrainian the shower parachutes are sit, boasting, hold the kid at oceans and so on. and even during the verse 2 periods of the cold war, we did not have this them on the station, not, not, not, of course, it's the so if you knew the police consider them of them almost. but that then there was some kind of sympathy for ordinary people in the solid unit for ordinary russians. but to day be, have it did, he did it, a sister hash, his demonization, of in the russian culture or russian people, everything connected. they did a sham, and this, in my opinion, shows that what they have today is so in the attempt of the rest to destroy at a russian i'm, oh, of course it was that was plan then all the mass media record united. and so i'm so

that the, it is a very interesting situation and in my view, but what's happening today isn't an extension attracted to the ocean and the, and that are some of the use every, every possible means 2 to win this war and re gain control of the territory of ukraine underwriter, russia satellite, will be destroyed, yet won't lot of merit. so a russian yourself here. so, i mean, i've come across these, these articles in western media, in all of russia's woes, go back to adult ski abaski in the other great writers of the 19th century. i mean, you're an expert on this here. i found resend literature from the 1900 century inspiring. but apparently it's the devil's work. vladimir explain? yeah, it's you know, lutheran, she is amazing. and i'm a teacher teaching that course this semester on the article story in this by asking students that mileage and every everyone brings something to their tax and bring

a lot of our to with the stick. it's immensely reach tremendously kind of rewarding a culture. and in this character cancelling things which are you struggling with the most is that you can can so maybe you know, tennis player mid video for over a single nebraska. but again, as you know, again, so geography, you can cancel history, you cannot get against our a culture, you know, it all is liberal school. who will i have more than happy to blame russia. they, they are very much concerned with climate changes. clarissa, okay, why is the biggest chunk of earth it's it's, it's absolutely involved in solving the global problems, including climate. how can you cancel this giant diesel and, and then to try to talk about, you know, control in the resources, not to abuse in mother earth. this is ridiculous, the same thing with history. you know, when all that history i just looked at the date in 271927,

great reason decided that the rashly spine against them, the whole thing was replayed then, like a scruples. there was some kind of energy which got some intelligence and the russians are going to steal india from, from great britain. so they broke my direct relationship only like several years later that historian, because they realized that there is another threat on the horizon. hitler. and it's a country one, maybe we can beat their partners. in other words, this is unbelievably my, your big, unbelievably so, of gorging. and eventually i, i agree with your time is on the russian side, because you cannot cancel, you know, such a powerhouse as a rush of this. you know, you can cancel united states, you're going to cancel china and it will absurd to cancel, you know, russia. yeah. but garland, it's really quite a standing that they're even attempting to do that. i mean, you know, russia is a very and as played a very important role in modern european history in world politics. and this attempt to cancel and to demonize. i mean, if you just use, you know,

in the looking at the rhetoric, the teasing again, being used against russian to demonize all russians. i mean, if you said that about israelis, you know what people would say, you know, if you said that about muslims, you know what people would say, but it doesn't count when it comes to russians that is extraordinary. and that shows how hollow liberalism is in the west today. go ahead. garland. yeah, i agree with you. and i think we, you know, we should look too deep into this philosophically into what they're doing. it is simply a tactic. it's simply a, a, you know, a tactic that's used currently. they're not thinking this in, into this deeply in the same way. if you remember, when donald trump was running, he was the sexual sexist in a misogynist. when bernie sanders was run it, he was a sexist in misogynist, now to russia. they have a one or 2 tactics, and they use these tactics regardless of the opponent. that's all they have. i think this is what we have to also understand is what we're looking at. and i think

we have the start using that term. the ultra liberals, the neocons are really fascist, and they really don't care. they use words and accusations as a means to an end, and they don't care if there is any substance to what they're saying. in fact, i would argue that the censorship we're seeing now is a war on critical thinking. what, what google and facebook and twitter are all doing is they're trying to ensure that the non substantive, superficial arguments that are put forward by the state department. and at the a and the, and our intelligence communities are not evaluated. that there is no depth of argument and they have to the censorship meet demonstrates that they are losing and that the people who are making in depth arguments are hurting, hurting their, their cause. and i, i just think they're desperate right now. yeah, i think there is an enormous amount of desperation here because the,

the more they say that the, the russians are losing the ukrainians are winning, the more desperate they get, you know, urine. and that goes to all of these war crimes, accusations, false flag operations. um and i actually with the 2nd phase of the military operation ongoing in ukraine. i expect a lot more of the sensational story so far, every single one of them has fallen apart. but that's not for trying. go ahead, burn it in a way you could say that the isa accusation of war crimes are in the way in encouraging it because it means that the ukraine is losing the war and the american, the of war mongers. they are getting it desperate. and i am sure there would be new crow occasions. i am almost 100 percent percent sure. soon there will be an a of gestation over it, or should i use dignity some kind i would say, because it's been in the ukraine yesterday to provoke

a rest and intervention. okay. a lot. okay. but latimer, at the end of the day, ukraine is really a foot note and all of this. and if you look at a blanket in austin and all these other clowns, what they worry most is that they want to deny russia any kind of victory. that's their, that's what they want, and they don't care the damage. should they crated carnage. they don't care about any of it. they don't want what i particularly vladimir putin to win. that's what this is all about. vladimir. yeah, i think what's important is gala mentioned and beyond is that they want to set an example for other countries. now. yeah, you know, fighting against, you know, kind of miles people or wall. and if the marriage to kind of, to get that victory over russia, one way or another, it sends a very kind of cheating message that china india don't mess with us. and that's what they try to do. so it is an essential struggle. i would say for own form of

multi polar world, the world with respects, you know, each country you know. busy is this kind of united states can hit germany, which manifests itself in that a different germany in political hegemony in admitted that he gemini, and so on. and you know, what is interesting to, to, to go back to history. you know, i, you know, i've seen it before. i've seen it in the soviet union. when you do that in newspapers, into the channel, try to impose a narrative. i remember like, you know, you mentioned israel. ok, you know, fighting a role in the was of 6773 and so it was the sort of is do they just cancelled easily? what is it does not mention, they presented some information era was, is a, we knew it was a losing, and the whole is laughing. it, it, you know, you can and cancel you, you have to call it, you know, i'm not saying that this can do, right? this comes, you know, but you have to sort of treat, you know,

even handedly. and you know, because i want to do the whole lesson for belinda became a laughing stock. and now when they see this, this, you know, propaganda to over baganda did that i have the same feeling. you run a store that is stupid allies. fences is paddled as some kind of a droop. yeah. you know, grow and what, what i find really interesting is that, you know, you have all these i blow hard on, on tv, you know, we have to defend the, the sovereignty of ukraine. but there's an open western bo, southern border in the united states, and then, you know, everyone should be able to determine their security, me, except for russia. i mean, it's all the russian so aren't allowed to have any kind of security needs. i mean they, they would, they, they trip over their own feet in their own mouths every single day and talking about this. it doesn't make any coherent sense whatsoever. go ahead, garland. well, the hypocrisy is astounding. in fact, just in the last few days, scott morrison from the us from australia said that the u. s. and the u. k. was

drawing a red line in the solomon islands. that is the, i know 1000 miles from the united states of 1000 kilometers from australia. the u. s. in the u. k. say, that's a red line. now ukraine is less than one millimeter from russia. russia has no fear of influence. and meanwhile, the u. s. and the u. k. apparently have taken the whole pacific the pacific ocean. and my question would be this. does the solomon islands have a red line? apparently, there is no sovereignty. it only applies to ukraine. it does not apply to the solomon's island. i mean, they have broken the hypocrisy meter here in the last few days. well, i think garland, that's why the global south doesn't want to have anything to do with this because they, the further you get away from london in washington, the more hypocritical it seems. ok, that's why they're not throwing their lot in this. they have to take care of their people. they're thinking about their own sovereignty and not make allowing others to dictate what that sovereignty is. that's the world we live in gentlemen. that's

all the time we have many thanks to my guess and watch it in providence and in our slow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time remember process? ah. ah . in hunter, russian state. i never, i've studied this on the north lansky devastation. all some a group in assisted babel been okay. so man, he's gonna be the one on the whole school about with we will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machines. the state aunt rushes today and sports r t sport mckibben our video agency,

roughly all brand on youtube and pinterest, and we put the question, did you think it was with me? oh, when i was shown seemed wrong. what i'll just don't hold any world yet to see proud disdain becomes the advocate an engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. oh,

was recently munoz cards and that if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about a couple don't put your human symbols on display a little space each night. all right, so you guys don't talk to strangers. i avoid noisy gatherings and with what she can do, i get a minute actually even your colleagues and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll, russian a by mutual,

a specific social with a with i'm african retention. you're watching going underground team, and i will be back soon with a brand new look, despite nato nation, a new censorship. but until then, we'll be showing some of your favorite shows a season so far. and you're watching going on the ground while the world is arguably fixated on the ukraine crisis today is the.