ah, ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . there are 2 kinds of conflicts being fought in ukraine, a western design in controlled propaganda war targeting russia and a russian military campaign that is changing the security dynamics of the european continent. and western propaganda is hell bent on escalation with cross sucking propaganda. i am joined by my guest garland nixon in washington. he's a political animals and providence. we have flatter my goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and, and also we have bjorn nice that he is in author and head of kaleidoscope russian information center hi joeleen. crosstalk rules and the fact that means it can jump

in any time you want. and i always appreciate a vladimir, let me go to you 1st here. american officials really reveal themselves when they're asked about the conflict in ukraine. i in one a good example as the secretary defense, lloyd austin, in kev. he was asked about america's aims and all of this. and he said the u. s. hopes, russia will be, quote, unquote, weakened by the war. but what does that have to do with ukraine? per say, other than you know, it is a proxy go head vladimir inadvertently, you know, you asked for a bargain propaganda in a to propaganda it meets. that is a go very, their purpose is not so much into using the beast between the 2 warring near countries, not bringing them together. but actually they engage in very heavily financed proxy war with russia as a purposes to direct russia deeper and to weaken it. so we have with totally contradictory whereas diplomacy in the situation, diplomacy reservoir,

was it some kind of negotiation for the sake of peace, peace or visit doesn't weaken the country. so, you know, on the one hand, you know, nato countries and the rest as were one. these were ones, she's, she's a has villages, but the other hand, they a store in trouble, their supply and more and more weapons they, you know, booting and strengthening. and in doing all sort of thing is russia in order to, for the water escalate. so it's, it's really confusing, but unfortunately, the western public do not hear this works. they hear something different day in day out, that poor, innocent ukraine. this is david, has to challenge the, you know, almighty alive. that's the story which they bush, but behind the behind the scenes it's quite or was by garland me pointed out on this program a number of times, i mean we go back to 2014, after the legal overthrow, the democratic government of unit coverage and then crimea left the don bass left

and now we have this conflict that started on february 24th and looking at the military conflict there, i think we should say the obvious that ukraine gets smaller and smaller. the more at the west supports this government in care of. i mean, i don't, i don't see what the ukrainians are getting out of this here. in fact, if, if in fact it is a proxy war, president zalinski is demanding that the u. s. coff up $2000000000.00 a month just in, you know, did the send it over, we'll do that well. so, you know, we'll, we'll send you a receipt later. i mean, this is getting absurd. go ahead. garland of 2 things. you know, i think we err if we view prayer. vladimir zalinski as the president of ukraine. he is an actor and he does nothing other than what he's told to by his masters in washington dc. that's number one. i think also. um, we, we of you,

ukraine as a proxy war against russia, but it serves dual proxy purposes in that the united states is at war with russia slash, china's lash multi polarity. so that the idea, the concept of weakening russia is so that it will be easier to confront china and ultimately let's not forget even india, which i think they're smart enough to know they have aspirations of being a world power. at some point they have the population, they have the industry and the technology, and eventually, you know, they know that their number will come. so this is about weakening any potential powers that could threaten us world hegemony. and right now they're starting with russia. the ukraine beyond and in our slow, if we take lloyd austin's words to heart, you know, he wants to weaken russia, but it seems to me it's weakening europe as a result as well. i mean, it's an american goal. i mean, obviously they want to have a gemini over europe. they don't want you to be competitors, but i don't see how the europeans win in this type of scenario go ahead in oslo. is

did, did this is obvious. one of the american, the goals is to have a conflict between germany, do european union and an russia to stop burton deliveries of gas or oil. and over her natural resources, trump just shut the door money. and of course, this wouldn't be in your money. it would be in europe and then, but it was presumably this thing, them america. so this is obviously, well, no, the 8th, so the diesel war and that the, the americans and all the rest and power suited bates are against a russia. but the, i think that are old, the aim sussman. i think the aim over american older and accomplished is not just a propaganda in fixture in the ukraine, but as a u. v. victory,

they hope to win this war. and, and then david stockton, an older warrant aggression against a russia, if it russia should lose in the ukraine. americans on their, i lost them. it will do the same to russia. i sent it to the former yugoslavia, but they started to split the country for this is an existence threat to russia. it was since that so called end of the cold, the war. the aim over america has been to crush m as split the ocean. and then for the, for the city since and they does, it have been a, it's bounded. yeah, i've had this a coup in the ukraine, m m and the americans have done everything possible to provoke a boy in the ukraine. it looks like they weren't latasha uminski agreement slip of a encouraged them the ukrainians to, to start what was that he did an attack on a gun boss if it a shot the act that the military it don't boss with the good. that being said,

it doesn't exceed the median, this is in the city and populations that been occupied, but your train and forces them to you with at the sterile fix the situation so that the americans forced a russia to reactivate militarily, of course, isn't so called the ukranian, the president, this gets that many americans went with the, the result was the latter mirror. and this is what we have led to believe that there was going to be a ukrainian attack on the don bass. hence they had the vast majority. the ukranian side is the mass majority of their military in the east. well, it's been just completely cut off from the west. they keep talking about winning vladimir winning, winning this war. but the war is already lost, but one more that they are, they do seem to win. is the propaganda war. because that's, if you look at cable tv, what you see is a propaganda war. you don't see a real war. go ahead. vladimir. yeah,

there is definitely in reality and narratives. and unfortunately in today's world, you know, who are controls in energy if you know control controls reality. so i think it's are the, until eventually reality actually looks into our faces in and heats our face. but we're dying being is just narrative and that idea was very strong. you know, innocent. graham's analysts amount of beef, just a bomb houses. there were on extra to this boom houses weren't on the bus in 2015. yes ma'am. they are gullible, western public by the speak, just in thinks that, you know, this evil russian empire, which is always a well and it is always up to some mischief is destroying innocent live. so this is propaganda by this propaganda is it can be a big city, in other words, for how long this life can go on. remember, for example, how united states decided to support in afghanistan support look, kind of the most outrageous kind of island people,

including latin who was fighting there. they gave them all the weapons exactly like, you know, nowadays in the great and then these guys john against united states and then the united states got involved in dennison war for years. so this propaganda dangerous propaganda war is it eventually the, the, the, or the is begin to believe their own lives and the wants of this happened. they don't do with reality altogether. oh, yeah, because the is long as you have a narrative without context. you can get away with just about anything. garland, i'm glad that vladimir brought that up. you could mention afghanistan, yes. supporting the worst part of elements of society. the breakup of yugoslavia, libya, syria, you go on and on and on. it's the same playbook, and now we have these nazi like characters that are deeply embedded in the ukranian military and security apparatus in the government and the u. s. once again, their money. we've seen this hor picture before, and it always ends badly. garland or one of the things that's happening to here

that i think is important is to understand that there is economic pain in the west, including the united states. the, you know, when we talk about the information war, when we talk about the propaganda war, we have to remember it is aimed at the people of the united states. it is aimed at the people in europe. and it's at the west specifically because if these people knew the truth, they wouldn't support the activities that their government is carrying out. because it's not in their best interest in any way, shape or form. i do believe that time is not on the side of these. i mean i, we use the words neocons, but let's be honest. they're just fascist. and it's only reasonable that these fastest would be aligned with the fastest in the, in, in, you know, whether it's afghanistan or ukraine. but i think times not on their side, because as the economic pain rises in the united states and in europe, the people are going to ask their leaders to address that economic pain and the incompetent,

hapless bunglers that are trying to model their way through this particular a problem, the crisis in ukraine are wholly unable to address the problems at home. and i think the problem that to us in our empire is going to have is uprisings at home, uprisings in europe and being unable to hold their coalition together. it would shock me, you know, if they can make it through the end of the summer into the fall. if not that when it gets cold, the empire is going to have to start looking in where to save itself. well we, we do have reports for british media talking about fuel insecurity. i haven't heard that one before. there's a lot of insecurities when we have fuel insecurity. one of the month, one of the most prosperous countries in the world with millions and millions of people in britain will be facing fuel insecurity. if this issue hasn't been resolved about a russian energy to europe and it's self inflicted my friends, they decided this, they don't want this commodity. no one is forcing them to import it. i'm going to

jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on propaganda staying with ah, with fidelity talking about with the school. i hope i see a

with a choice issue. somebody over there, both those with him talk video when you look on them, you up for you up ideas with the and i do so as you know that way, if you don't mind ah,

welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter level to remind you we're discussing propaganda. ah okay, let's go back to be our in, in, in our slow, bjorn. i mean, as a european. um yeah. how do you take, and how are we, are people in your country viewing this attempt to completely utterly cancel russia in every sense of the term? i mean, it's literature, it's music, it's athletes and everything. i've never seen anything like this on this scale. you know, it is, it's a collective guilt and apparently, you know, that was something we shouldn't apply to all individuals of one group. and that's exactly what's happening here. it's really remarkable for me to see western liberalism really show their true, intolerant face. go ahead beyond yes i'm,

i'm at some a region another i'm is through. i'm just, i can just say that i am ashamed. i in of the way rushes than most and today's, even in norway it russians are depicted like didn't. law says depicted russians in the region. mass media are not, not just against the cool in the russian police to consist them a russian foreign policy and so on. but the russians are described as not humans at the, at the what, what the dorman loss is called the own that mention not the humans so that he did demise. and we have a, had the in to use with ukrainian the shower parachutes are so boasting how the kids are a russians and so on. and even during the verse 2 periods of the cold war, we did not have this them on the station, not mother. of course, it's the soviet union. the police consist them of them almost. but that then there

was some kind of sympathy for ordinary people in the solid unit for ordinary russians, but to day be, have it did, he did it, a sister hashes them on the station of it, a russian called her russian a p, people, everything connected, they did a sham, and this, in my opinion, shows that the both they have today isn't the attempt of the rest to destroy at a russia i'm oh, of course it's awesome. let's plan them all the mass media record united. and so i'm, so that is a very interesting situation and in my view, but what's happening today is in an extension a to the ocean. and the, and that are some of the use every, every possible means to, to win this war and re gain control of the territory of ukraine underwriter, russia, it's, it'll still be destroyed, yet won't lot of merit. so a russian yourself here. so, i mean, i've come across these,

these articles in western media, in all of russia's woes, go back to don't ski out to ski in the other great writers of the 19th century. i mean, you're an expert on this here. i found resend literature from the 1900 century inspiring . but apparently it's the devil's work. vladimir explain? yeah, it's you know, lutheran, she is amazing. and i'm a teacher teaching that course this semester on the article story this by asking students at mileage. and every everyone brings something to it, to their tax and bring a lot of other with respect. it's tremendously reach tremendously kind of rewarding a culture. and in this character counseling thing, which are you struggling with the most is that you can can so maybe you know, tennis player media for over a single, the draft. but you can, you know, cancel geography. you can cancel history, you cannot against our culture. you know,

it all is liberal school who will have more than happy to blame russia. they. they are very much concerned with climate change. is clarissa ok, why is the biggest chunk of earth it's it's, it's absolutely involved in solving the global problems, including climate. how can you cancel this giant diesel and, and then to try to talk about, you know, control in the resources not to abuse in mother earth. this is ridiculous, the same thing with history. you know, when all that history i just looked at the date in 271927 great britain decided that the rashly spine against them, the whole thing was replayed then, like a scruples. there was some kind of entity which got some intelligence and the russians are going to steal india from, from great britain. so they broke my relationship only like several years later that historian, because they realized that there is another threat on the horizon. hitler. and it's a country one, maybe we can beat the left button. so in other words,

this is unbelievably my, your big, unbelievably so kind of gorging. and eventually i, i agree with your time is on the russian side, because you cannot cancel, you know, such a power house as a russian this, you know, you can cancel the united states, you're going to cancel china and it should cancel, you know, russia. yeah. but garland, it's really quite a standing that they're even attempting to do that. i mean, you know, russia is a very and as played a very important role in modern european history in world politics. and this attempt to cancel and to demonize. i mean, if you just use, you know, in the looking at the rhetoric that's using, again, being used against russian to demonize all russians. i mean, if you said that about israelis, you know what people would say, you know, if you said that about muslims, you know what people would say, but it doesn't count when it comes to russians that is extraordinary. and that shows how hollow liberalism is in the west today. go ahead. garland. yeah, i agree with you. and i think we, you know,

we shouldn't look too deep into this philosophically into what they're doing. it is simply a tactic. it's simply a, a, you know, a tactic that's used currently. they're not thinking this in, into this deeply in the same way. if you remember when donald trump was running, he was a sexual sexist in a misogynist, when bernie sanders was run it, he was a sexist in a misogynist. now to russia, they have a one or 2 tactics. and they use these tactics regardless of the opponent. that's all they have. i think this is what we we have to also understand is what we're looking at. and i think we have the start using that term. the ultra liberals, the neocons are really fascist, and they really don't care. they use words and accusations as a means to an end. they don't care if there is any substance to what they're saying . in fact, i would argue that the censorship we're seeing now is a war on critical thinking. what, what google and facebook and twitter are all doing is they're trying to ensure that

the non substantive, superficial arguments that are put forward by the state department. and that the, and the, and our intelligence communities are not evaluated. that there is no depth of argument. and they have to the censorship to meet demonstrates that they are losing and that the people who are making in depth arguments are hurting, hurting their, their cause. and i, i just think they're desperate right now. yeah, i think there is an enormous amount of desperation here because the more they say that the, the russians are losing in the ukrainians are winning, the more desperate they get, you know, the orn, and that goes to all of these war crimes, accusations, false flag operations and i, i actually with the 2nd phase of the military operation ongoing in ukraine. i expect a lot more of the sensational story so far, every single one of them has fallen apart. but that's not for trying. go ahead, bjorn, it in

a way you could say that the isa accusation of war crimes are in the way encouraging it because it means that the ukraine is loosing, that the war and the american, the of war mongers. i are getting it desperate. i am sure there would be new crow occasions. i am almost 100 percent percent sure. soon there will be an a if you're sation of a it or shall use dignity. some kind of shame because in the ukraine yesterday to provoke a waste and intervention. okay. a lot. okay. but latimer, at the end of the day, ukraine is really a foot note and all of this. and if you look at a blanket in austin and all these other clowns, what they worry most is that they want to deny russia any kind of victory. that's their, that's what they want. they, they don't care the damage. should they crated carnage. they don't care about any

of it. they don't want what it particularly vladimir putin to win. that's what this is all about. vladimir. yeah, i think what's important is gala mentioned beyond is that they want to set an example for other cons. now. yeah, you know, fighting against, you know, kind of miles people or wall. and if the marriage to kind of, to get that victory over russia, one way or another, it sends a video kind of cheating message that china dream did don't mess with. and that's what they tried to do. so it is an essential struggle, i would say for own form of multi polar walls of world with respects. you know, each country, you know, is this kind of united states can hit germany, which manifests itself in that a different germany in political hit, germany in committed that huge emma and so on. and you know, what is interesting is to, to go back to history. you know, i, you know, i've seen it before. i've seen it in, when you know,

2 or 3 newspapers into 3 channels, try to impose a narrative. i remember like, you know, you mentioned that you. ok, you know, fighting a role in the was of 6773 and so was it was the saw is do they just cancel easily? what is it? it does not mention, they presented some information. there of course is a, we knew it was a losing, and the whole is laughing and it, you know, you can and cancel you. you have to always, you know, i'm not saying that this can do right. this comes, you know, but you have to treat him, you know, even handedly and it could cause what to leave. the whole lesson for belinda became a laughing stock. and now when they see this, this propaganda to over baganda did that. i have the same feeling even of a store that is stupid allies. fences is peddled as some kind of a root. yeah. you know, grow and what, what i find really interesting is that, you know, you have all these i blow hard on tv, you know, we have to defend the,

the sovereignty of ukraine. but there's an open western called southern border in the united states. and then, you know, everyone should it be able to determine their security, me, except for russia. i mean, it's all, all the russian so aren't allowed to have any kind of security needs. i mean they, they would, they, they trip over their own feet in their own mouths every single day and talking about this. it doesn't make any coherent sense whatsoever. go ahead, garland. well, the hypocrisy is astounding. in fact, just in the last few days, scott morrison from the, from australia said that the u. s. and the u. k. was drawing a red line in the solomon islands that is 9000 miles from the united states, a 1000 kilometers from australia, the u. s. in the u. k. say, that's a red line. now ukraine is less than one millimeter from russia. russia has no sphere of influence. and meanwhile, the u. s. and the u. k. apparently haven't, haven't taken the whole pacific the pacific ocean. and my question would be this,

does the solomon islands have a red line? apparently there's no sovereignty, it only applies to ukraine. it does not apply to the solomon's island. i mean, they have broken the hypocrisy meter here in the last few days. well, i think garland, that's why the global south doesn't want to have anything to do with this because they, the further you get away from london in washington, the more hypocritical it seems. ok, that's why they're not throwing their lot in this. they had to take care of their people. they're thinking about their own sovereignty and not make allowing others to dictate what that sovereignty is. that's the world we live in, gentlemen. that's all the time we have many, thanks them i guess and watch it in providence. and in our slow and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time. remember prost? ah ah, 3

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me. so they should know that our response will follow at a lightning speed. we have all the tools which no one else can now post ult, this is what vladimir putin declares will be moscow's response to any outside interference. again, fits offensive in ukraine. a wake up call for european governments to consider crisis elsewhere in the world. as india's top diplomat refuses to take a hard stance against the war in ukraine and calls on western nations to pay more attention to problems in asia, africa is said to lose $11000000000.00 worth of food supplied due to grain supply chains being cut by the ukraine conflict with some african regions facing severe hunger and poland refusing.