ah join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross stock were all things considered? i'm tito lavelle, u. s. secretary defense lloyd austin says he will move heaven and earth to assist ukraine. at the same time, the even foreign policy chief exclaims relations with russia should be rebuilt. talk about a united messaging problem. this is akin to saying to save ukraine, the west must destroy it. i

crossed knocking the ukraine situation. i'm joined by my guess, url rasmussen in washington. he is the executive vice president of the ration center in paris. we have john laughlin, he is a university lecture in history and political philosophy and we have alex me. however, he is a foreign affairs analyst, and, and archy contributor, i generally cross stock rules, and if that means you can jump in any time you want. i always appreciate john, let me go to you 1st and paris list trust who started her political career in child care. apparently, it was her portfolio. now, as she saw the foreign secretary, she said to following the last few days, the war in ukraine is our war. it is every one's war because you cranes, victory is a strategic imperative for all of us. so we're at war. all of us are at war and it's not, it's something she said, the quiet part out loud rushes at war with nato rushes at war with the u. k. out right on the and we have a british official saying the british weapons used by ukrainians to kill russians in russia is okay. i wonder refresh is going to reciprocate john. well,

that's what everyone i suppose is afraid of. but the fact that this is a war not between russia and ukraine, but between russia and nato. we've known this since the beginning of the conflict. ukraine is just the theatre of this conflict. there belligerence are nato and russia. how we known this? well? because president lensky told us, he told us, i think, 3 days into the war, 27th of february or something like that. he said he'd wrung up all the nato member states and asked them, could ukraine join the alliance? and they all said no. but publicly the doors will remain open. in other words, war is not about letting ukraine shoes make a sovereign choice about its future as the nato idealogue said at the time, because they're not prepared to admit it to their lines. instead, it is. as you've quoted peter less trust saying all joe biden or the other week

saying that the goal was to we can russia. so that is the goal. and that's why the british foreign secretary says it's everybody's war because what she means is that the west london, washington, the european allies, want this war in ukraine in order to we can russia. that's what biden said to, we can russia. that's why they were rearming ukraine. that's why the united kingdom signed a military corporation agreement with ukraine in summer 2021. that's why the united states signed one, a few months later. the goal was to increase to ratchet up the arming of ukraine. in order to pose a threat to russia, and that is now the conflict that's being played out. ok, but alex here, if i could still use this quote here, ukraine's victory is a strategic imperative for all of us. what if ukraine loses as well? if you look it for solid, let's remember, and as little thing, we're talking about the beginning of this war. this war started in 2014 and the war

started when nina was involved in 2014, i covered this from canada, j t f. 2, which our special forces along with the s a s n u s. special forces were all on the ground. and it could have been on the ground before 2014 helping what we know as the hours of battalion and probably sector at the same time. so this is something that has been going on for an extended period of time. now when lose it, it's, we're living in 2 parallel universes here, because what we're seeing in the west is something that we've never seen before. this unprecedented type of propaganda that i can only say has to have come from the coven epidemic. because kettler, just as hyped about this, as they have been in the past 2 years about what cove it was, it's unbelievable and where you look in the west. the flags are hanging. the commercials are on tv. we're seeing just blue and yellow. absolutely everywhere. so from that perspective, this war has turned into something very different year. and so it's one of those things where everybody's patting each other are on the back and say, hey,

i'm with this teen younger either way with us for ality criticized it. what whirlpool neurologist alex made it the same people that where the pins on their lapels and the banners and all that. if you ask them, do you know what the don bass is? what do you think the reaction would be? they'd say, what's that? okay, of course the whole idea is insanely, you've put it into context and this is this propaganda intentionally has no contacts you, earl, i mean, i want, i want to stick with this winning and losing thing because that's a we keep hearing about. what if the west lose? i mean a and that's in the cards here. i mean, ukraine as it stood on february 24th. we'll never return to that ever. okay. and when we hear the foreign secretary of the u. k. lloyd austin, you know, they're all in here. i mean, this is good and very, very badly because there will be a winner, and there will be a loser. and my hunch is given that it's a neighboring country to russia, with russia, with overwhelming military force, is going to be

a disaster for nato. and it is a disaster for nato. go ahead, earl peter, you can actually go back even further before 2014. you can look at woodstock and you can look at grand chessboard by as brzezinski rand study in 2019 ukraine is a strategic importance in order to to doesn't really have a strategic importance to us for existence. but as far as weakening to russia is, so that's why it's focused here, and that's what the, this is all about to weaken and contain russia and to prevent them from researching and to, to coming back up. what's going to happen if the, obviously the militarily, it's not going to, unless there's an intervention and then who knows what happens ukraine's going to lose the and so what, what could happen is we could see a fragmentation of ukraine. yep. we could definitely see a,

a pseudo new curl, gore potentially who knows how it would look with 3 fourths of the world, a 2 thirds, a 3 fourths of the world, citing and keeping good relationships with russia and china. and then we have the european group with some stragglers. japan and u. s. u k. lead by the us, obviously in the, in the other camp. so, so it's, it's a definitely a dangerous direction. and, and it's dangerous from a, from an economic. we're looking at a potential economic lapse in europe. i thank you for darrell, i'm glad you brought that up because let me go to john in paris it. what i find really interesting to watch is that there's this enormous attempt to isolate russia, but the end result, the way i look at john, is that europe is isolating itself absolutely only question of winning and losing.

and in a way, the question is rather old fashioned that you put peter. and in my view, what the west wants, what the united states wants is for russia to engage in a war of attrition. a general milly, the supreme commander of the head of the chief of staff of the american army, said that before the war broke out, he said, is that right? russia were to invade the westwood almon insurrection in ukraine. and this has been said by many commentators that the american model is to have an afghanistan for ukraine. so the, the war could carry on as a war of attrition. a protracted period during which russia would, for example, occupy a certain number of cities in ukraine. it already occupies civil as it is and those cities would be subject to a long war of attrition. and should be very easy to wage in the sense that obviously there are no physical boulders between the cities and the rest of the

country. easy for people to come in at night and, you know, blow things up or whatever, and a low level war like that or to try and maintain territories like council, no matter you pull or whatever, which russia has already taken woods in the american calculation be very costly and dangerous for russia, and i think that is the goal. in other words, i don't think there is a, a win or lose with, well, i say your line of argument perfectly and it will, but i don't kill and say, right. do you know, one nail to nature will to one to rush or whatever. it's going that ukraine is a trap? sure. and that is the, how the american see it all outcomes are bad at them. i went to russia. yes, they're very bad for europe and i think iraq was isolated itself in europe is very, a very vulnerable economically. and russia may well resist much better than europe calculates, but it doesn't mean that the come is not bad to rush rank,

it is bad. i absolutely agree with you, but alex, if i go to you, but the worst outcome is for the ukranian people, that's the worst outcome here. and that's not in the western calculation whatsoever . i mean, lloyd austin, say, you know, to, to, the goal is to weaken russia as, as john said here, he didn't mention anything about ukraine. and that's her. go head out. this is, this is something that we, i think as journalists and as animals that we've, we've saw from the outside looking at, i mean, i've covered wars for a long time. and it's usually the united states of american baiting, somebody for writers of mass destruction or some other obscure reason that doesn't really exist. there is no calculation and they don't really care how many people are going to be killed on the ground. ukraine. i as much as i sympathize with the ukranian people and i feel for the cranium people i have a lot of ukrainian friends. i grew up in the ukranian neighborhood in toronto, canada. i understand what they're going through. i was in the balkans during the award there. i understand what's happening, but at the same time that ukraine is not the point here. it's a, it's a war,

proxy war between the united states and russia. what happened with russia now? i believe that this was a big mistake. they got basically lured into a situation where you had lincoln constantly saying, no, no, yeah, the ukraine could do whatever it wants. of course, if they want to join it or could join nato, ukraine was a coast joining a when there's an election in 2024. if, if it's still happening in ukraine works, lensky probably would have been booted out. and russia could that done the exact same thing that the united states did in 2014. and that was a cool because i'm the exact same way and it could have done this in a way that there would not be so much bloodshed. but at the same time, you have to remember as much as russia was bated and who did the beating. and who doesn't care about lives? a did see over and over again. it's basically the u. k. and the u. s. that 11, alec, there's one thing that you might could have mentioned will never know is that in between time, the don baths could have been invaded by care of. okay. and that was the impetus for us. history will judge. okay,

but i'm not sure i agree with your timeline there. okay, we'll find out what the eventually what the timeline was and why the decisions were made. i gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break an up to about your break. we'll continue our discussion on the situation in ukraine. stay with, with with

with no one. no, no, no. hon. hello, job. no, no. well, go more shrill deliberation of unit 73. 1 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program that the world had ever no real. oh, you know, to push it issue or sure, doug. i thought it enough. good candidates, good on you. son. new rochelle. he moved mama. she no longer thought this meant union one. i got the much sale.

i wonder, i wish to know about julie hill who knew he didn't more than a jail it's. i had a little cold weather and all you nice to do you want this on this? she my new on on? no, i isn't all good. i don't the, you know, put them out to give us like when i would show the wrong, why don't i just don't rule out the thing because after an engagement equal betrayal, when so many find themselves world apart, we choose to look for common ground

the welcome back across stock where all things are considered. peter lavelle trim edge, were discussing the situation in ukraine. ah, ah. okay, so one of the interesting things that i find and watching this conflict here is alex mentioned in the 1st part of the program he's covered before and wars around the world. most of them initiated if not all of them by the united states and its allies. but the impact of those wars on western voters and western consumers i would say was quite limited. ok, it's, it wasn't a high profile thing. some of us i have very strong interest in foreign policy, but the average voter doesn't. now we have this situation here. we have supply chains, we have inflation. the face of the dollar is at stake in many ways people are not aware of it, but that is true. so this endeavor to support ukraine,

that has no strategic value whatsoever for europe in the united states is beginning to cost something, go ahead ro. i think peter, you remember, i think the whole initiative, this is and all the other war two's is maintaining us supremacy dominance around the world at any cost essentially. but, but yeah i, i do not, i would agree. i do not think that they fully thought this out. i think they thought there is going to be some ramifications. some blow back on sanctions and stuff, but i mean, they went all in was thanks all it. i mean it ridiculous. this is direct company and, and i think, i think they also were thinking that they would get more people to support the sanctions other than just the us than europe and their close satellites. and that hasn't been the case. so i think this is a major, major threat to, to the global economy in the global financial system. we also what's happened here,

you hear them saying that russia's using oil or whatever for and gas for us as blackmail. but what has the u. s. allies done as far as the global financial system and the dollar and the euro, blackmail exact and, and what they've done by using the, we basically basically have damage themselves as far as credibility. as far as the whole global financial structure, i think it's really being challenged right now and, and it's going to have, i think rush is going to have some tough times, but i think they'll get through it. europe. i think it's going to have a very challenging time and some blowback will come back to us too, but it will definitely be affecting on the long term the supremacy of the dollar as a, as a reserved currency. so i think it really hurts the european and the u. s. reputation

globally and in a, in its as a result that they're not getting the actions that they thought they were going to . that's why they keep doing after this freya. yes, you, john, you know, i, i'm, i'm living in moscow. i've been here for almost a quarter century now and i'm very well aware of the sanctions here, but life more or less just goes on. there are some inconveniences. yes. particularly when it comes to financial system, but you know, totally destroying the economy. now the rubel a tumble then is right, right back where it was before. ah, as earl is pointed out, am on the global south is i'm not going to get involved in this. say, see, this is a, something well beyond their interests are these countries are looking out for their sovereignty and their citizens here, going along with the europeans and the americans are not in their interest here. so i'm this endeavor, propaganda,

and using the financial system and trade is not panning out because it hasn't brought rushes to it to its knees. as i've been telling people they've been preparing for this for since 2014, they've been thinking about it a lot. go ahead, john. well, in fact, when you get back in time, russia, all that before, the soviet union has been under sanctions, western sanctions since since before i was born, you may remember comic on which was a body that designed to restrict the export of, of technology to the soviet union, so the use of sanctions to try and we can russia is decades old and i very much agree with what alex just said about using the dollar. and also incidentally, the euro as instruments of blackmail as russia is accused of doing with gas. there's a big difference, however, a gas is a real thing. oil is a real thing, the dollar and the euro, and not real things, that just bits of paper, which of another purpose, namely to buy whatever it is you want to buy. but some people are always going to want gas, there was going to want oil. now they're not necessarily going to always want

dollars if they can instead buy the oil gas in the chinese currency or in the russian currency or in the indian currency or whatever you want. and one of the extraordinary things about this war is that, i'm sure, like many people, many people may have, have asked what exactly are russians war aims, you know, what, what is the end game from the russian point of view. one of the consequences of this war has been to fro the pack of cards up into the air and see which way they settle. and we have seen the answer to that already with india and china and brazil is gigantic countries. the gigantic economies of course, siding with russia, as you said, just now the global south, including by the way, the middle east, saudi arabia, the gulf states, these, these economic power houses have not signed it with the 2 sides of the atlantic. and that is indeed indeed indicates that as you asked me in a previous question,

europe is isolated. you know, alex, you know, the, there is this issue of using an energy as a form of blackmail. well, i think we should kind of put it into perspective here are over $300000000000.00 of rushes. reserves have been frozen if not stolen, and you have, you have nato officials giving a nod for the ukrainians. the use nato weaponry to a hit targets inside of russia. i mean, why shouldn't russia just turn off the gas? i mean, that's a war. how, what, in what war can you, any of you think of where? well, you know, we're going to be fighting each other, killing each other, but we're going to keep commerce going on. doesn't happen. i don't think it's ever happened here. so, i mean, there, there should be a point in time and say, well, i mean, if you want to kill our people, that why should we sell you energy? go ahead, alex. well, absolutely, i mean look, and it's, it's are for exactly what you said, i mean, this goes a, it, it's a what the u. s. thought would be a win for them in this, in the sense that nordstrom chew is not working. they thought that they,

they basically shut their oil on to europe, exactly the way that they plan to. but a, it's a little bit more difficult than, than what they imagined to do in the 1st place. and as far as i don't correct me, if i'm wrong, they're still a pipeline. they runs 3 am praying from russia into europe. so ha, ha, ha, we're in the middle of a war. this type to i still floyd, saw it from the very beginning. got from my lease, from my humble opinion. i was like, why doesn't russia just turn that tap off after college assembled alex, i will even add a layer to that. that yes, that pipeline. it's the, i'm out there through a pipeline and they're shipping it through ukraine and they're paying the ukranian government transit fees as we speak. okay. or you go, okay, and these are 2 countries that have been at war for how long now and do you have flights between kevin and moscow every day for how many years? so it's just one of those situations, i mean and back to the sanctions. i just want to touch upon this. i was in serbia and the former yugoslavia during sanctions. there are some people say i wrote

a book on it when i was with a you in organization. i co wrote a book actually. but the fact of the matter is that sanctions do not work. some of the best times my life were under sanctions, where you grab a bottle of wine and guitar, the lights are off and everybody had the best time of their lives. you still could get food, serbia was prepared for it and you could be sure that rushes prepared for it. yes, but earl has the west prepared for it? that's the question here. and i don't think they have and certainly the european solvent. i mean, i've been watching media coverage of germany hemming and hawing about what kids can do. it, it can't really do very much. there is a choice. turn off the lights and closed the door in the entire year. european economy will collapse. ok, but there are still these buffoons in the u. k. and the u. s. forcing the germans to do it. i mean, the chancellor of germany, i com. sergeant schultz because that's exactly how he acts. go ahead url. yeah, absolutely here, and then this is going to have

a i don't think the west completely prepared for this. ah, but i also think get a secondary intent of this not only was, was directed towards russia, but i think also was directed towards europe because one of the yeah, one of the things all the docs vince is to prevent europe from researching and create and to prevent too close of business ties. ah, yeah, but with her to maintain us dominant in europe, i agree with you. i agree with you, but isn't it kind of a hollow victory? i mean, you want had gemini, you want to maintain your head gemini in europe, but then europe just becomes a poor house. i mean, how is that a victory in the long term? let me throw that to john. go ahead, john. you react to that? well, it's not a victory a, it's, it's caught making a desert and calling it piece that i think that the cutting off of gas is going to be the next escalation. it's already started with poland and bulgaria,

or the europeans for one minute say that they will pay in roubles and another minute say that they won't. and unless the escalation, which has been explicitly threatened by vladimir putin notably against britain, unless at escalation takes a military form. i don't know what exactly he means may be. he means some kind of a hypersonic strike on a british target. unless he means that the logical next step is indeed the escalation that you have mentioned, namely cutting off the gas supplies. even if those gas supplies were only cut off for, let's say, a week, the rise in gas prices would be so catastrophic, and the effect on the markets would be so immense that that would itself strike a very severe blow. as of course would a permanent cutoff. so yes, i think europe is stuck in the middle. europe has cooled the wrong as, as back the wrong holes on this because europe has happened. this happened so many times in the past takes the flag,

but decisions which are taken in the united states. well, alex, i mean let me finish it with you here. i mean, they are the, are western publics prepared for the long term, long cold war, even if it flares up with that, with russia, they prepared for that 30 seconds. no, you're not. absolutely not lucky. europe right now, it's taking a look at the euro. is right now, i mean, we saw this during 1999 during possible europe was hit, the euro was hit, the u. n was hit ignored completely, as well as russia, 3 birds with one stone back. then this is exactly the same type of thing and it makes you fake why this could have been predicted at this. could be this paradigm shift. everybody's talking about. russia could be a useful step by actually shutting down oil. what is it we going electric? what are we doing there should be some mastermind up there who's completely off his rocker. who thinks that this is a good thing. it will always be what could have been gentlemen, that's all the time we have here. i want to thank my guess and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are,

can you see you next time and remember wraps up with with over here the other issue is doubles are going to put what you're talking about with the school. i hope that i see the flight up with the bus like a, [000:00:00;00] with

a ford edge that also the situation issue. somebody over there, both of those with poverty over you. look, are you up with the an idea raise, you know, that way. i don't mind oh, is your media a reflection of reality?

in a world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community? are you going the right way or are you being led to somewhere? direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows.

ah oh, is one of the most beautiful cities and rushes from or east? ah, it sits on the river, runs the russia, china border. it was for many years the far eastern capital aah! has no shortage of historical sites here. the officers club is one of them in this is where in december 19, 49 and 12 members of japan's. quinton army stood trial. oh, that was the only time war criminals have ever been tried for creating