oh, well, it shows the wrong one. i'll just don't hold any world yet to save out. disdain becomes the advocate an engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground with ah, ah.

hello and welcome across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, western media and politicians are obsessed with the idea of ukraine winning say otherwise, and you are maligned, accused of treason and even cancelled. the ukraine must win trope is actually about something completely different. that has everything to do with weakening russia. ah cross sucking who's winning? i'm joined by my guess. martin j america. he is an award winning journalist and commentator. and in sydney we cross aj aloria. he's the editor in chief of consortium news dot com or tell me crosswalk rose in effect. that means he can jump any time you want. i always appreciate a job. let me go to you 1st and sidney here. why is a western medium politicians obsessed with his job? ukraine is winning. ukraine will win um without any kind of serious analysis of the

battlefield. now we could, we could relegate that to experts on the military, but for the last 30 years, western military experts have gotten everything wrong. so i think we're losing on all counts here. go ahead. joe of a garcia, corporate media in the west has joined the campaign. the government's campaign, which is bertram, clearly an american proxy war against russia. this is evident from the very start on february 24th. the day russia entered ukraine. joe biden give a press conference and he was asked, what do you think body that the sanctions are going to work now when they didn't prevent the invasion? he said the sanctions were never meant to print, prevent the invasion. they were meant to tell the russian people what he's done and, and to make them feel the pain. that's what this is all about. and then of course, in poland, he came out right out and said it, it's about regime change in russia. this goes way back to 1949 when the c i a took nicole 111 of the leaders of van doris fascist, grew back to new york and used him for sabotage against the soviet union and

ukraine, right? for the orange revolution. and certainly the 2014 qu, so the media is only given the ukrainian side of the story. ukrainian source is a washington, a leaving out huge chunks of this story, particularly that 2014 us back who in care of the civil war and dumbass role of neo nazis. what the mini cooper was about, the nato, a treaty draft treaties russia put forward in december. all that is gone. you can't even discuss what the causes of this war are, which would include all the things i just mentioned. you are then banned as we were from paypal because of false information. you are traded, branded as you said, a traitor or a potent puppet at such are just for trying to write the facts about the war without taking either side even just doing that. so you were left with the, a cartoon figure of russian russia just being a monster that wanted for no reason whatsoever to attack this democratic country. and of course, as we're going to talk, i think later about so and sky, it's hardly

a democracy. ukraine, mike laurel, it's the same question to you because i'm joe is actually put forth my thesis here is that all this can happen and it can happen quite swimmingly when there's no context whatsoever. i talked to p well privately, and i say well, you know, we have to go back to 2014 the mens records and all that. and almost always is that what are you talking about? there is no context in talking about what's going on in you. great, and this is intentional. go ahead, martin. yeah, it's, it's a noun phrase on. unfortunately, i'm new at noon. some details on relevant facts which take more than 30 seconds. the price of seem to have been just whitewashed out of the entire media equation. let me look at your crane actually to answer your initial question. you know, people like, or as johnson or i don't have invested so much in ukraine, you know, going back to 2014. i think anybody knows anything about the history of the country, joe code. it's a u. s. but even if you were to be kind,

you certainly there are certainly evidence of us meddling, trying to install the british us. and i think of them these leaders, these governments can't lose, they can't turn round to their electric. now, during price high showing energy costs going up drain taishan, soaring and people not me, i'm to deal with new taxes being in person, them and say, hey, we've learned this money and we might have got it wrong. they just don't to medical and media doesn't do medical lead us to correct mistakes in the times. newspaper this week, printed a very impressive article about the ghost pilot's crime. naming him, you know, and apparently the training commanders facebook page just seem to escape the attention of that unless you're going to, the commander said, look, the story is nonsense. you know, it's a mess that's been, it's been made. it's like, well it's like the snake island. ok,

which still is making the rock. it still makes the rounds amazing. ok, joe. i mean we, we got to tell you when we know about the, the, the politicians and the west are being disingenuous because nobody in the west is talking about a c higher ah, how to end this conflict as method. just the reverse. they want to fuel it on, i mean, you know, there's a, you have a milly, the joint eva sapphire. this could happen for years. and then you had a defense contractor saying, well, you know, we know what we'll, we're here to serve. we're here to serve the defense department. i mean, you know, the, the powers that be, seem to be quite gleeful it except for they don't seem to care much about the ukrainian people. that if you look at all of these speeches, the crating people don't really make the cut. go ahead, joe. now that they don't give a damn about the training people, they don't give much damn about the american people. this is a proxy war to weaken and destabilize russia and to overthrow the regime. so they think by sanctions and by bleeding, russia militarily on the ground,

and threw in information warfare and without russia's entry into the civil war. and ukraine, if at the end of february u. s. couldn't launch this economic information, and on the ground insurgency, or flooding the country, what weapons to try to bleed russia much the same way that the u. s. did what the soviet troops in afghanistan, that brzezinski as admitted in an interview that, that was a trap set for soviet union using them. gotcha. dean. i think it's the same thing in ukraine. there. set a trap for russia at, with using ukranian, neo nazis in the forefront, ukrainian, or mila regular military and ukrainian people that they don't care about. and they will fight this war to try to a weekend. if not, you bring down russian guy much. i think it's highly unlikely, but the fear, the fear i have is that if russia even the sweeps to a decisive victory all the way from dumbass through the south in odessa to the romanian border, that is going to be a land and a possession difficult to defend,

they will continue to spend weapons there, and there'll be a taxi. could go on for many, many years. perhaps. i think that's what the us wants here, and they're going to try to bleed russia and ukraine. and i think this is what the prodigy as well, i mean martin, but that, that has to include the willingness of ukrainian population to go along with that. that remains to be seen here because it's joe is pointed out and i think it's so pressing to talk about this is that there's a civil war going on in ukraine as well. it's never framed that way in the west, but we've had this, you know, that these tensions who go all the way back to the origins of the ukraine when he got its independence. you had very different narratives about what it means to be ukrainian, ukrainian history relationship with the west relationship with russia. and now it came to blows. we had the legal co in 2014, and then we had the ethnic cleansing of the don bass for almost 8 years. so you know that this kind of narrative, it's, you know, russia bad ukraine, good russia,

authoritarian russia, ukraine democracy. i mean, it sounds nice to our western audience, it probably gets 8 minutes of, of foreign news a week. okay. but, and it works, it works to the powers that be because this story is so much more complicated. and if you, if you start explaining it, then people will start having questions and that's not what they want. martin go ahead. exactly. and the last thing, the big major in the west once is people asking, oh, good question. that creates a whole new narrative that could open up new new avenues of opprobrium and scrutiny. and the moment you know, we're, we're, we're working in a parent with western media, particularly british media in america. media doesn't really want to look at any of those to create some new subjects that just listed at the beginning. what if we did, if we have journalists that my friends ask, those were your questions that could create a completely different momentum in countries like britain, america,

people might start asking to difficult questions themselves and not stop asking questions america, for example. and we really forge study $3000000000.00 and so a country, those are the world we don't even most americans cutting find on a map. i mean, it's ludicrous this idea. the griffin in america has this cultural, historical connection with ukraine. i don't see it. i wasn't close when i went to school, you know, it's difficult to, to see where they're going with that now. other than removing him as a russian leader, that was the launch and deck to and i think we're living in a era now. let me look back at history the end of the 20th century and generations to come. it will say, this is the period of folks he was not with the, with nature, with western countries. when it goes toward more, you know, we've sent all the people to go to war just like fights flores and ukraine is very much to me, a pub carpark. so you have a scrap with people on the road that you don't agree with, views on,

and you have your, you know, your own chip, political objectives and i think come people in the west or know that there understand the thing about the not asking than i expected anything from the western john of this? you know, they're the reference to national neo nazi group, sledging in your favor. how many people know how many people understand that? you know we, for 2 world wars can fascism and it's very difficult. the newspaper edison island is now to sell this war with all the gruesome details that are going on, you know, but at some point they will know, you know, my, my worries just joe pointed out that some, you know, the real worries where, where is this going now whereas is leading because it does, it leads to a nuclear solution, voted from talking about a little bit in the 2nd half of the program. but joe, you know, talking about all of this money when you know, you look at the, the middle class and working people in the western world been crushed for the last 40 years under neo liberalism. but there's plenty of money for ukraine that is notorious being one of the most corrupt countries in the world. one minute before

we go to the break, go ahead, joe. well, like i said, they don't care about the american people. look at what ukraine has been. it's a gravy train, it's a place for carpetbaggers. when the soviet union fell, they floated into russia and acid strip. the country published the russian people created oligarchs. yelton that'll happen, pollutant came and stopped it. he was younger coverage who didn't take the e deal in one of the russian deal. they probably saw that the gravy train that continued in ukraine all those years could ended not forget joe biden. and hunter button went in there afterward. was part of this corporate banking process, that is what ukraine is for the western don't want to lose that. well, it certainly when the pentagon comes out and says that it has no is as no accountability of what happens to all of these weapons that are flooding into ukraine. and i, i'll tell you gentlemen, i visited ukraine many, many times. most journalists that write about it have never been there for those weapons will end up being used against the west. eventually they'll end up on the gray market, the black market instantaneously,

because these are valuable weapon systems. the and these are the people that are in control and the fact that they want to continue this war shows they have no respect for their own people here. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on who's winning ah ah ah with

with

ah. ah, welcome back across that we're all things considered. i'm peter level to remind you we're discussing who is winning. ah, go back to martin in mirror catch. martin, one of my favorite films is dr. strange love. i think it's a it's, it says, yeah, i can, i never get tired of watching it. ah, because i'm, i'm fascinated with history geo politics and it's about my lifetime. okay. um i see a new version dr. strange love, 2 point. oh that even kubrick couldn't even comprehend about the level of stupidity and ignorance and arrogance. when people talk about nuclear warfare i miss sounded we, at, before we started our recording, we lamented the loss of stephen cohen, which warned us about this. go ahead, martin. you know, i just think this

a pattern. i mean i was just a strange love doctor. strange of the parallel is a funny one, but i just, i just think it's a pattern that we're experiencing. now when we look at ukraine, if jones, of my age, and step back and look at what's been going on in the region and how america just creates an off the shelf package on this for international media. when it goes in to countries like syria, or even as far back as iraq, the 1st bus iraq war and us love, you know, we get this massive oversimplification situation where people explain to the media, these guys and one site. what can we out to me on the wireless lack? how hatch and we saw it and you just love it. most of it's most of it's really quite demon, but savings painted to be but he simply wasn't very cooperative with madeline albright and others. and we tried to just put a sort of us a gemini ideas, what's in them in terms of funding solutions and in,

in the region. and sir, it was the same thing. you have this over simplification of the facts. this is polarization. are probably reporter news journalists who can't cross from one side to the other and the same things happening now. in ukraine, everything has been made so simple for us to digest in the west and journalist. there are so few. this is the worrying thing or a so few journalists on the ground now in ukraine, who just sent invoices, who are able to ask more difficult questions, having any, reconstitute erickson's, you know, like joe in sydney who are operating around because what will happen to those channels you know, we saw recently with the rest of the a chilly in blogger, because on the mirror, he was detained by the train security forces for a week, and that was a signal for me to journalist west of john. this is what happens to you when you break away from the spin, spin fed narrative from the west,

from our own public relations executives. in jeff, i'm how you look at the store is when you break away and you start asking difficult questions. you're going to say this fund treatment, and i think this is the tragedy of this war and it's a, it's a very sad thing. i think it was good. so who said that the truth is, blinds don't look at it too, too, too brightly. almost like it's a light in your eyes and i think it's really true in ukraine. you know, we don't know what's really going on that. but your point earlier it's uh, it's not checking on where these items are going. and, you know, i have with 6 walls and in my career, and i can tell you that corruption doesn't stop when a war starts. corruption, not ready to fight, you know. and they will be plenty of international arms dealers on the black market . looking to buy those american weapons on those british weapons before they even get off the ramp. they don't even end up and you haven't go to your credit or somewhere else in the world. and we'll find out about this in years to come,

you know, who's getting rich, one of the journalist asking these questions, want to putting zelinski on support like, how does this guy have all this money from being i want to talk about. let's get a little bit later, but, you know, joe, i'm sure you saw lives trust the foreign secretary. she had this big, big to do over the weekend about how important to ukraine is. and just a you, both of you, you know, i read the speech, it was very difficult to get through. but i have one simple question and then no one seems to want to answer is that what is the national interest? what is the u. k. national interest, what is the european union's national interest? what is the american national interest in getting involved in this regional conflict in europe? you have an answer for me, joe, because nobody in power wants to answer it. peter, 1st before you want to go to war, you've got to make sure your domestic populations on the control that they're not going to cause any trouble if you can, whip them into a frenzy. as we've seen the for a cause. that means nothing to them that even as you point out hurts them biggest,

$33000000000.00 rather than going for their healthcare and other social needs is being squandered in a foreign country to help leaps with their interests and to bring down a government that is no threat to the united states. i didn't read trusted speech, and frankly, i do say must be very difficult. well, want to know that once you know joe joe, i read it so you didn't have to, so keep go and kill it. yeah, exactly. i mean, when she, when she identified part of the russian territories being and you cravat back to last time, i wanted to hear anything from her. so i think that the scary part as a, as martin was talking about is you can't bring up anything to challenge this narrative because they need their population solidly by him. and right now the us and britain have and sort of germany. it seems like as well, to some extent fred, i mean, this is a very scary moment when the sanctions on roger actually having a worse impact on western as lives than in russia. this is something that is going

to have to become evident as a martin also said, they're going to get the trip eventually. but in the meantime, we have to slot through this and try to stay on shut down as far as websites go. and our, our journal is, we get, you know, just try to hammer on the things that we've been talking about here. look, martin, you, you brought up mr. zalinski, the president of ukraine. what, what do you make of him in his role here? because a month into the conflict and in simple there was a meeting with the ukrainians and the russians and a deal actually made a separate program about it. possibly was in the making of his government seemed to be making some concessions. and then the next new cycle from washington. no, no, no, no, no, you don't hear. so what do we make of mr. zalinski here? and he's become very, very, very rich apparently, according to our sources. yeah, we, we have to be careful as a last, well speculation on, on the incident. but we know from, from the,

from the previous investigations that he had at least 600000000 tons of options from companies. that seems to be a fantastic amount of money for canadian, even though he owns in production company. we're talking about a series of companies in television, which are a broadcast distributed for a long time, only a new crimes. one of course comes near it so i don't understand how you acquire that kind of wealth. but my take and i don't have anything to pack this up. it's just my gut instinct. what. what i feel about zelinski is that he's a puppets of the americans, and he's been a puppet from a very, very beginning. think they to back a 2nd horse after portion. i think he was the one that kept observe. i think they are the one who i think they are pumping money into his media organization and they groomed and very, very early days to finally take this role. and i think, you know, this is really what we're looking at. we're looking at, you know,

these days we're living in an era of the west into meaning and meddling in so called revolutions all over the world. you know, and i think landscape is the perfect couch of, from the beginning that the identified as somebody who could play the role and be completely served in to the west direction. the question is whether you will stay on or message will do state. well, i think once, i mean, i think i have to say it is well, he survive it. i think that's also in the hard here. joe, what do you make of him here? because, i mean, the one thing that i didn't expect i wanted my, our viewers should be clear. i mean, i warned that this was going to have, i warned in december, january and february i every single program i went over and over again. you're not listening, you're not taking this seriously. and, and then it happened. ok. and zelinski ended up being just this kind of, he's the media star of this. i mean, and this is what happened. it's, it's a,

you have a battle ground, a battle field in ukraine where people are being killed and then you have another battle and it's all about media and cultivating this personality. and that's what makes this, you know, a parallel experience here. go ahead, joe. well, 1st of all, he's changing his opinion every 5 minutes. literally in the same interview, you can see me say opposite the bench that he will talk to the russians and he won't talk to the rest of so you don't really know what his position is. but we do know he's under enormous pressure from london and washington, absolutely, and probably from extremist in his own country stubby, he may have the right instance. we don't know, but we'll never know because he's not allowed to follow them. he's puppet. of course, every ukrainian leader is a puppet after 2014, they took over the united states, took that country over it's part of the u. s. and why it's a basically a possession of the united states right now. they're fighting this war for the u. s, against russia. it was an opportunity for us to fight russia on the ground without

the immediate risk of a nuclear confrontation. because right now, nato. i mean, you, chris, i'm part of nato though. it is, it be facto nato country where they got arms training exercises, so they have build it up as a de facto member of nato and have used this opportunity to fight russia. so this man, i don't know about his money, whether he takes cocaine or not. i really dismissal that it's not, it's not important. what's important if she doesn't lead you crying, he's, he is a puppet leader, and anyone continues to be in office will be that including photoshop. a look at the tapes that have emerged about how bite and talk to him. and we know that the u . s. is running the running ukraine. this is the, this is the fat. so you can't really take seriously as zalinski and what he really wants for his country is, seems to be irrelevant. what united states wants for margaret were rapidly running out of time. i'm going to make a prediction here. article 5 will be tested on in the immediate future.

because now that the logic is, i mean, if, if the west, the setting in arms to kill russians and ukraine, that the, the russians have to say, well, you know, we do something about that and, you know, it going across a ukraine's border to the west. the stop that i think is in the cards unfortunately . and the nightmare of nato will finally come to fruition. because does everybody want to go over into war with russia because he because poland wants us and arms to ukraine, 30 seconds go to your, i'm sorry, go ahead. i'm gonna, i'm gonna trump you, i'm going to take that idea. and so i've predicted in my articles recently, but i think it's only a question of time before british american soldiers, russia, since you're crank. and i think the reason being behind is because at a certain point, public in those countries are going to start complaining. and so asking questions about why and how we can carry on funding that extraordinary amounts of money in or including incredible amounts of money into the military, industrial complex to what you crane and the solution that those leaders will then

come up with a later point is we got it wrong, but this is how we should fix it. now we need to send those. so just to finish off the job with the equipment with them. i think this is where it's heading. i think british prime minister burn stroke just recently sent 7000 ships on to the borders . i think the next thing that we're going to see that 3 months is actually a grounding nation. so that's what really worries me all for walk for a bigger long gemini plan from britain america to pick off these little states damage, or we can supposedly pension and to expand the political objectives. i don't think we can afford it. well, i can't guarantee that the russians will not under any circumstances, lose this conflict. true on that gentleman in our audience here. it's all the time we have thanks to my guests, america and in sydney and thanks to our viewers for watching us here. are the see you next time? remember?

ah. oh, seem wrong what all just don't make any world. yes, to save out. disdain becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds of horn, we choose to look for common ground. ah, the 1st time in history and entire countries culture has been canceled to the very modern weapon cancelled culture. daily desert. wonder global sheffield my last little when william frog here. just me sitting there. i know you put glue. the

phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture. yet that know what secret the few orders. because you can when you're my folks, you're pretty well we all there is children that go with them. most of the temperature random e des moines. what rushes created over the past 1500 years. there's no question, partially condemned, reviled, and rejected. to sort of like a bullet bellow, there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. thank you, said a little short list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now enclosed dostoevsky to cascade shostakovich that i need to you all the pool left. but yes, it also says that the thumb will you dear obama lee, you're not going to do that

a little bit more. ah ah, with .