[000:00:00;00] ah ah ah, ah hello and welcome across not we're all things considered. i'm funeral about 77 years ago. fascism in europe was bank, which the price paid for this victory was staggering. that experience remains part of brushes, political and historical dna to this day. on this edition of the program,

we discussed why big today is honored in russia and largely forgotten in the west. ah, to discuss this and more, i'm joined by my guest here in moscow. maxine stop, he is the wrecker of the center of advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. and we have to meet with bob and she's a political analyst and editor. you know me, internet media project for a gentleman, cross talk roles, and the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i would appreciate it. let's start with maxine, maxine, it's a, it's a victory day. i'm a big day in the great patriotic wars. it's called here in russia. and if you go down the streets and you see the st. george ribbon is the flags are all out of course for the victory days,

renown for some military parade. and the president giving a speech what makes it important this year, as opposed to the very 1st one and all the ones in between. go ahead. well, i think the meaning of the picture day is important and least 3 dimensions. one, it is a war that has united the entire nation and block every other russian family relatives or distant, relative or either thought or you can engage in this war and some form or the out. so this is as you accurately mention this in the country and a d, n a. the 2nd important aspect of it is, this is a, in about 2 miles on the branch of the russian history. that has become the core of the state and entity in the post soviet russia. she is in the early days of the soviet union, the most important date was the number. it sounds, you know, the,

the revolution and it also russia, it is, they may not the key date, kind of shaping the state identity. and finally, and i think that goes directly to your question. it is important because it is not just about russia, it's about, you know, the human sacrifice this about the human tragedy. and it's about the ability of great powers, regardless of their geo political disagreements to come to their senses. a critical moment. so the world, you know, and it's a sign that political games may come to very, very far and pull the world to the threshold of and i lation. and it is a reminder that this shouldn't ever happen. well, these are words of great wisdom here. and i completely agree with your assessment dem, uh, let's kind of flip that upside down. but it makes me in europe is celebrated on may 8th because of the time difference isn't all of that time when the war came to an

end. but it's not something that is really widely remembered or even honored at all in the west. and when i went, even as a child growing up, because my father was a veteran of the 2nd world war, you know, we, we thought of it, but they're not on the same, less grand scale. we hasn't been for a very long time. hollywood is kind of taken up the, the slack world war to them still, but that's just about it. a huge difference here in russia and in the west. go ahead. well, the main reason, of course, was the loss a r a b. you will know. no, you can see she also will

write it those in the go or right right. it is well, so you have these i would say nurse a i mean. ready a use it for us? well in fact, only years non b was use are now sitting there with his over r o s a r a, you know, sure are all the ski tomorrow. and there was a,

a, a, a, now, as i said, you know, just my next question, maxima, it, i mean, not only a reverence for victory in europe losing any kind of meaning. we have just the, actually the reverse and demons already hinted out it is we have a form of revisionism. so not only is, you know, that not only is the soviet union not given and the peoples of the soviet union, given credit for the, the destruction of fascism in europe. it's, it's being diminished, it's, it's actually being played down into the point where was the soviet union all the more started in the 1st place. i mean, we've gone through this entire, you know,

a re here. it's really quite remarkable. and it's actually happened quite quickly that same. i agree, i look at it in 2 ways. on the one hand, it is part of the great revision of history that is taking place in the western societies. you know, where, where a lot of the see groups in the us and elsewhere are revising their own history. not just the history of other cities or international. so that's part of that pattern or trend. on the other hand, you know, throughout the human history, the most important thing was whose army wits and the 21st century and the growing technological and information age. it's important. who narratives once so, i know why by trying to tackle the most important for saying the most important identity, making element of the russian society of the russian say this part of this,

you know, greater geopolitical struggle against, against russia in my view. well, the same thing, question to you, i mean we, we have to the new york review of books used to be a bell out there for intellectual dot in america. unfortunately, hasn't been the case for a very long time. when i can, i can remember stephen po and john mearsheimer know, you know, the grades you know, debating on the, the, the importance of the settlement in europe after the war and how and create the geopolitical environment that gave birth to the post more environment. and we had so much of that seems, have just been peeled away. and again, just to de, legitimize any kind of positive role that russia's played on the world stage in the last century. it's really quite remarkable. well, it's a to see how he views the

situation so far. it was very easy to read a b y 14. so concerned about history of what you gave him. roger wasn't aggressive. as many stories made him stop for the rush is not that it's not no ways in the security council right now. we can do whatever we want. you know, so this is what they're trying to do

to support the student or these are all the way they're in the less the bakery in world war 2, gave rise in rush to send, you know, what did all these does have one, but they said, i remember, when he went to say they said, so you know, we have knowing we just got a few nations down the road. i thought it would be fine, you know, knowing a little

a mess, but the most talk will be stick in more and more. so why will happen is the story or go for a we destroy inside a while we is no, no, not a it's a much much really you know, i am a introduction. you're only vanquishing fascism in europe, but that is not the western narrative right now is the soviet union defeated germany. ok because they want to take the ideological element out of it and the

rush is very insistent that it must remain ok. and this is the end. and i think this is so very important because of trends that are going on in europe right now. we can talk a little bit about what's going on in ukraine as well. but there's this, this refusal to look at in an ideological terms, go ahead. well, there is a refusal to look at it in on a logical terms in the way they were framed. you know, shortly after world war 2, but definitely not, refusal to look at it in modern day ideological terms, you know, with this quote unquote, democracy was autocratic kind of thing. this is kind of a different type of framing of the ideological struggle. that is now, is now be in which i totally, we, with what i call it. so it's, you know, that it's an attempt to 1st do legitimize the victory. and then, you know, you try to push russia out, you know,

that's all of the victors, but don't come very practical and things such as, you know, the removal of rush, central russia from the un security council that has already been taken place. you know, they talk to review the post war architecture, you know, in the very principles are the basis of it and try to restore a new world for on very different principles where russia is not a player. rather a player. good very. i don't want to hold this very important that we have to go to a hard break. and after the heartbreaking continue our discussion on some really stay ah ah

ah ah, with for the move in the business. and you will clean a b, e w. that was chosen yeah. americans, grey you were you were with just touching up group just filling in for you was just touching sure. emma's names you after that, if not sitting in full with you, use her own the what the problem you're still with yours that are both in the studies your son, bristol cleaning for choice. who's coming to the one off on all kinds of good. it

which you, which of the longer it will show us new solution, not people push to, to stream to book remote because you know, your personal useful code. i don't know which for you know, for the doesn't or is that a used for us to premium finance is kumar last tour with you to look up a muscle. i mean, you know, she doesn't being in the green shield on nice to me. my gosh, 6th grade to 70. to look at that, i put his ashley of nbc. wanted to work with one to move please. but of course i bring out an up of the genome. cranston, the pro furnished arrived,

some neat guided that we got that was that there was a need, say, residential grain week. i have them i well to make the process where all things are considered, i get a little this is the home addition. remind you we're discussing some real. ah, let's imagine we had to go to a break here, but you were talking about the nature of european architecture. let's take a look at that. you know, what was what came is result of the war, the end of the cold war. and now, because this is really, i think, the colonel of it all about what kind of security arrangement that europe needs, go ahead. well, exactly, i was saying, you know,

it's important. i think it from what we observed today for the western states with us in particular to ensure that russia is not part of the new european security region that is now emerging. it is not a player that original, but rather pay or both to great and to western institutions, not just with financial, no assets that been frozen or outside the country in foreign banks, but also morally politically, you know, because you always have to restore a new world war and a new security arrangement on the ashes of the old one and on the basis of something, you know, back in the day was on the basis of the german and japanese military infrastructure and their political ambitions. both germany and japan were successfully integrated into the western states. no, but today it's, it's an attempt to, to, to, to you know,

to rush into that type of place. if we can go this way even don't rush. it was not militarily defeated fee because you know that, you know, that's, it gets to the point of it your team and let me of you because that's what they want. they want a vanquished russia. so it can be integrated like the vanquished countries of germany and japan has after the 2nd world war demon jump in, this is their programs also for the game and i when i left your game it became an ally, but it was, it was a supplicant as well, okay, you know, it's not friendship of equal to the

image, you know, so you know, i mean is equal right? and if you want to buy the mostly you know, the really so you know more about the better, you know, people you buy so in the joy you're buying and what would be wrong with you? just like germany and japan or people the west change, gender, change. it's

a completely different from what you used to be. e meters were, you know, be very upset and all of the lot i don't, did you know, if you were probably she was very much against the style. you know, a when i'm wrong, joshua was very upset. a rush, my general a h a l, a, b,

a. so that's why i was going to be a b, a, you mentioned the regime and can maxine, this is one of the things i find very problematic in this, in this age of censorship. i, it's, it's, it's so important to be able to say the truth of what's going on and what kind of political elements the u. s. in the european union of the so supporting and ukraine since 2014, when there was the illegal overthrow of the democratically elected government. and so i'm, you know, the groups, i'm talking about 8 are private sector as of all these people here and

then are not shy in their ideological dispositions. and this is a well known in the west, but you wouldn't publix don't know it because it's overlooked or not seen is important to buy these or into a small number of individuals that always passing it off for some reason. but it's really quite poignant here on the big 3 day in, in russia, when the west is supporting the kind of forces that the soviet union bank bank, which 77 years ago go ahead max. it was the, the are of the policy making is the, are not the right priority. so i want to go back to where i started with talking about the today's victory day is important in the sense that it's reminder of the human sacrifice and the ability of the great ours to work together. i think as we move forward, any other less veterans per year from the war and the memory of that war is no longer fresh with the new generations. and, you know,

the history of the worst obligated the history of the soviet american british alliance is complicated. so there was a on a number of occasions and appreciation on the part of moscow of, of the need for a new basis. for russia, we'll start ration made peace for speech and un general assembly in 2015, calling for a new anti hitler coalition against isis. now that did not work out, so we don't really see on the horizon an enemy that would potentially unite russia in the west. so the quality of the leads have changed in the west dramatically. and the new release chosen the priority to, to, to, you know, and getting back to this domain upgrade. all right, russia, is it adversary in any. and every single tool in audiology is used

to torpedo it. and you can hear it both the collateral damage and it to policy demon what you know, we've talked, we've talked about changing narratives and one of the narratives, even in my long spell and living in your country is that i see i see the commemorating victory de more is a victory of the, of the peoples of the soviet union of the russian in all other nationalities that sacrifice because that's the key word over and over again is sacrifice that was made here. and it is not to promote or venerate any kind of ideology. it's more a human suffering and sacrifice because it was the soviet union and it was a communist country. but when we think about it now in 2022, it's more about sacrifice. would you agree with her? i absolutely agree. die in our lives or

whatever they want to be. i do all that was, you know, be more summarizes the car. i will say right there in the line and i wish there were russian people you may or should be there where i don't know it read on the radio phrase. we just don't want to be realized. germany was real. and in the same way,

i don't want to be made by all that is again, course we will also and your maybe you know, so i a whole that was very, very, really so it's time for us to be and to call the fire at the meeting imacs in finally be in the united nations security council passed a, a resolution about ukraine. and it was, it was, it was, it wasn't very specific. i mean, the least, it was some kind of agreement here. but it's, and as we think about this day victory day, it really pains me that there is so little, little awareness that

a major conflict is in the making. and i and it that we should, you know, that's what she considered today. what has been lost and what can be lost again, and i think we're still, we're still are not fairly safe from major conflict and trajectory of things in recent weeks, you know, new york times in talking about so you know what they alleged real support of the us intelligence, for 20 minutes, your ration can stop rushing and you know, brass and other is really, you know, actually think in my view creasing re stuff like right, our direct, our escalation and clash. so i think that's why in my view what, what i just spoke, you know, the quality of the lease is so different from what we dealt with, you know, and we'll work to shortly actual the world war 2 or even in the late ninety's,

9090 s so i personally, you know, saying that this time is hard times, you know, usually give birth to greater leaders. i will say my and is why straight out there. yeah. big quality leadership in the west, and it's nothing to write home about as they say. well, i hope our viewers will take the take away from this program. is that the, the people of the soviet union, particularly the russian nation, separate enormously and to see russia and it's european neighbors where they are right now. it's really cause for concern. and that's all the time we have one of the, i guess, here in moscow, i want to think our viewers watch here are the next number. oh,

for the moving business. and you will clean the rugby, daily shoes and made it comes. graham, when you wrote, you just got to really just touch on the ceiling, influential stuff such for him of the different sit impala, chelsea, you get thrown with them the problem and you're still having issues with your fear sick. if you're not the study skills or just a bunch of stuff coming to enough on ok, which which longer it was just showing up and push to just a moment because i knew a partial school run. you don't know who's got no pointed,

don't know as much to do given the other than that. you're going to go to these just opinions. so enough is come on the russia celebrates the 77th. other bursary of victory over the nazis with a rum per have held in moscow, $11000.00 troops, and more than a 100 military vehicles took hard during his victory days speech rather than praise the sacrifices millions of soviet veterans. the president also stressed that russia's military operation is being carried out to protect the people of dunbar was justified. and all avoidable should prevent its hostility.