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non penal about 77 years ago. fascism in europe was bank, which the price paid for this victory was staggering. that experience remains part of russia's political and historical dna to this day. on this edition of the program, we discussed why big today is honored in russia and largely forgotten in the west. ah, to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest here in moscow. maxine stop, he is the wrecker of the center of advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. and we have to meet with bob and she's a political analyst and editor knows me internet media project for a gentleman cross rose and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i would appreciate it. let's start with maxine, maxine, it's a, it's a victory day victory day in the great patriotic wars. it's called here in russia.

and if you go down the streets, i see the saint george ribbon, you see flags are all out of course, for the victory days, renown for some military parade. and the president giving a speech. what makes it important this year, as opposed to the very 1st one and all the ones in between? go ahead. well, i think the meaning of the picture day is important and least 3 dimensions. one is a war that has united the entire nation and block every other russian family a relative or distant, relative or either flaw or a gauge in this war and some form or the out. so this is, as you accurately mention, this in the countries in a d, n a. the 2nd important aspect of it is, this is a and in about 2 miles on the bench, the russian history that has become the core of the state and entity in the post

soviet russia. she's in the early days of the soviet union, the most important date was the number. it sounds, you know, the, the revolution and it also russia, it is, it may, 9th, the key date kind of shaping the state identity. and finally, and i think that goes directly to your question, it is important because it is not just about russia, it's about, you know, the human sacrifice. it's about the human tragedy, and it's about the ability of great powers, regardless of their geopolitical disagreements to come to their senses at a critical moment. so the world, you know, and it says find that political games may come to very, very far and pull the world to the threshold of and i lay sure. and this is a reminder that this shouldn't ever happen. well, these are words of great wisdom here,

and i completely agree with your assessment dem, uh, let's kind of flip it upside down. but eventually in europe is celebrated on may 8th because of the time differences and all of that time when the war came to an end. but it's not something that is really widely remembered or even honored at all in the west. and when i went, even as a child growing up, because my father was a veteran of the 2nd world war, you know, we, we thought of it, but they're not on the same, less grand scale. we hasn't been for a very long time. hollywood is kind of taken up the, the slack we're world war to film still, but that's just about it. a huge difference here in russia and in the west. go ahead. well, the main reason, of course, was the was a r, a b. you will know message

with a also all right, is it the, was it in the whole or right? right. it is. well. so you have a lease, i would say nurse a, i mean a uses are well in fact only years they will use to her. now sitting there with no, i was in session,

i are a, you know, she are all the way g. a, a, a . now, yet, you know, just my next question, maxima, it, i mean, not only is a reverence for victory in europe, losing any kind of a meaning. we have just the, actually, the reverse and deem is already hinted out. it is, we have a form of revisionism. so not only is, you know, that not only is the soviet union not given and the peoples of the soviet union, given credit for the, the destruction of fascism in europe. it's,

it's being diminished it's, it's actually being played down into the point. where was the soviet union all the more started in the 1st place. i mean, we've gone through this entire, you know, a re here is really quite remarkable. and it's actually happened quite quickly. maxine, i agree, i look at it in 2 ways. on the one hand, it is part of the great revision of history that is taking place in the western societies. you know, where a lot of the see groups in the us and elsewhere are revising their own history. not just the history of other cities or international. so that's part of that pattern or trend. on the other hand, you know, throughout the human history, the most important thing was whose army wins. in the 21st century, the growing, technological and information age. it's important who narratives once so i know why

by trying to tackle the most important thing, the most important identity making element of the russian society of the russian say this part of this, you know, greater geopolitical struggle against, against russia in my view. well, the same thing, question to you, i mean we, we have to the new york review of books used to be a bell other for intellectual bought in america. unfortunately, hasn't been the case for a very long time when i can, i can remember. and stephen po and john mearsheimer know, you know, the great, you know, debating on the importance of the settlement in europe after the war and how it create the geopolitical environment that gave birth to the post more environment. and we have so much of that seems have just been peeled away. and again, just to d, legitimize any kind of positive role that russia is played on the world stage in

the last century. it's really quite remarkable. well, it is a need to see how he used the situation so far. it was very easy to read or b, b, y, e spoken. so concerned about history or what you gave him. roger wasn't aggressive, may story and made him stop for the rush is not that it's not that it has no ways in the security call so that we can look at what we want. you know,

so this is, this is what they're trying to do. to support the student. these are all the you know, in the last the bakery in world war 2, gave rise in rush to send, you know, what did all these have? why? i remember certainly when he would do this, they said, so if you don't the noise we have knowing which nations down the road, i thought it would be fine knowing apologize

. i'm the one with a mess. now most talk will be sent in more more. so why, why is the story or go a we destroy inside a while we she is no, no, not a. it's a much much really you know i,

you my introduction early back pushing fascism in europe. but that is not the western narrative right now is the soviet union defeated germany. ok because they want to take the ideological element out of it and the rush is very insistent that it must remain ok. and this is the end. and i think this is so very important because of trends that are going on in europe right now. we can talk a little bit about what's going on in ukraine as well. but there's this, this refusal to look at in an ideological terms, go ahead. well, there is a refusal to look at it in our logical terms in the way they were framed, you know, shortly after world war 2, but definitely not, refusal to look at it in modern day ideological terms, you know, with this quote unquote democracy was our craft kind of thing, this is kind of a different type of framing of the ideological struggle. that is now, is now be in which i totally, we, with what i call it. so it's,

it's an attempt to 1st do legitimize the big tree. and then, you know, you try to push russia out, you know, out of the victory but done, come very practical and things such as, you know, the removal of russia, russia from beach. you are security council that is already been taking place. you know, they had to review the post war architecture, you know, and the very principles and the basis of it and try to restore a new world. or i'm very different principles where russia is not a player, a rather a player. i with mary. and i want to hold this very important that we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. ah, a

ah . ah, a new business, and you clean with the shoes on your medical gray you. when you go to the social group, the ceiling,

and when you are such circle in with the different student until you get thrown with them the problem and you're still there actually issue the rules you're here that i think you history as it should be your brought in that the study skills of place to come in to enough on ok which, which and longer it was just in the solution up and put stickers to put him on because a new way to do school don't know which the guy know for the doesn't know if i should just to do giving it and then you can just opinion for us is come on. welcome back to process where all things are considered. i get it all. this is the home addition remind you were discussing some real ah

let's see, manage, and then we had to go to a break, but you were talking about the nature of european architecture. let's take a look at that. you know, what was what came is result of the war, the end of the cold war. and now, because this is really, i think, the colonel of it all about what kind of security arrangement that europe needs. go ahead. well, exactly, i was saying, you know, it's important. i think it from what we observed today for the western states with us in particular to ensure that russia is not part of the new european security region that is now emerging. and it's not a player in that region, but rather pay or both your grade and to western institutions, not just with financial, no assets that been frozen or outside the country in foreign banks, but also morally politically, you know, because you always have to restore

a new world war and a new security arrangement on the ashes of the old one and on the basis of something, you know, back in the day was on the basis of the german and japanese military infrastructure and their political ambitions. both germany and japan were successfully integrated into the western states. no, but today it's, it's an attempt to, to, to, to, you know, turn rushing to that type of place. if we can go this way even don't rush. it was not militarily defeated fee because you know, you know, that's it gets to the point of your team and let me of you because that's what they want. they want a vanquished russian. so we can be integrated like the vanquished countries of germany and japan after the 2nd world war demon jump in. well, this is their programs that you

did. i states were also for the game and i, when i gave it became an allied but it was, it was the supplicant as well. okay. you know, it's not a friendship of equal or equal so you know anything is equal and if you want to buy the mostly and you know, i know you know what, i saw you better, but you don't want people to buy

so indeed, the joy, your rush was, you know, we are buying what would be wrong with, you know, just like germany or people, the west change gender. they change it to completely different from what it used to be. neither were, you know, be very upset. even though i don't, did you know if your problem was very much against russian style in the you know, people are

wrong. josh was very upset about that. is that you were you my son was rushed the gun friend from work. and i think the president of the west and you are the one i want more war and ross, i know why so that's why they own all the same . we hold on hold for you. you've mentioned him and kept maxine, this is one of the things i find very problematic and menace and it's age of censorship

. it's, it's, it's so important to be able to say the truth of what's going on and what kind of political elements the u. s. in the european union of the so supporting and ukraine since 2014, when there was the illegal overthrown the democratically elected government. and so i'm, you know, the groups, i'm talking about a dar, private sector of all these people here that are not shy and their ideological dispositions. and this is a well known in the west, but you wouldn't be public, don't know it because it's overlooked or not seen is important or these are into a small number of individuals, always passing it off for some reason. but it's really quite poignant here on big 3 day in, in russia, when the west to support the kind of course is that the soviet union bank bank, which 77 years ago, go ahead max. it was the, the art of the policy making is the art of sit in the right priorities. so i want

to go back to where i started with talking about the today's victory day is important in the sense that it's reminder of the human sacrifice and the ability of the great ours to work together. i think as we move forward and, you know, there are less veterans per year from the war and the memory of that war is no longer fresh and the new generations. and you know, the history of the worst obligated the history of the soviet american and british alliances complicate. so there was a, on a number of occasions and appreciation on the board of moscow of the need for a new basis. for russia. west operation made peace, a speech and un general assembly in 2015, calling for a new anti schindler coalition against isis. now, that did not work out,

so we don't really see, on the horizon an enemy that would potentially unite russia in the west. so the quality of the leads have changed in the west dramatically, and the new release chosen the priority to, to, to, you know, and getting back to this domain of great rivalry with russia is an adversary in any . and every single tool, an audiology is used to the appeal and here is both the collateral damage and it to that policy. you know, we've talked, we've talked about changing narratives and one of the narratives, even in my long spell and living in your country is that i see i see the commemorating victory de more is a victory of the, of the peoples of the soviet union of the russian and all other nationalities and sacrifice because that's the key word over and over again. it's sacrifice that was made here and it is not to promote or venerate any kind of ideology. it's

more human suffering and sacrifice because it was the soviet union and it was the communist country. but when we think about it now in 2022, it's more about sacrifice. would you agree with that? i agree in our muscle, mark, whatever they want to want to be. i don't want to see that was, you know, be more summarized because i would say right there in the line and i see

that there were russian people you may all be there. i don't know what they really praise bye are going to be real. i was a real and in the same way, i don't want to be just fine. all that is, again, course we will also be, i'm sure, maybe you know, so i call that point is when we, when we, this is very, very well. so it's just a v,

a c m, m, x m. and finally, in the, in the united nations security council passed a, a resolution about ukraine. and it was, it was, it was, it wasn't very specific, but i mean, least, there was some kind of agreement here. but it's, and as we think about this day bakery day, it really pains me that there are so little, little awareness that a major conflict is in the making and i and it, that's what we should, you know, that's what you should consider today. what has been lost and what can be lost again, and i think we're still, we're still are not entirely same from major conflict and trajectory of things in this recent leaks. you know, new york times in town talking about. so, you know, they alleged real support of the us intelligence for it,

pretty much your ration to can stop rushing. you know, brass and other is really, you know, actually think in my view creasing re, stuff like right, our direct, right, our escalation and clash. so i think that's in my view what i just spoke, you know, the quality of the lease. it's so different from what we dealt with, you know, in one word to shortly after the world war 2 or even in the late ninety's, 9090 s. so i personally, you know, saying that this time is hard times, you know, usually give birth rate or leaders. i will say my, on this one is pretty much there. yeah. big quality of leadership in the west and it's nothing to write home about. they say, well, i hope our viewers will take the take away from this program, is that the,

the people of the soviet union between the russian nation separate enormously and to see russia and european neighbors where they are right now. it's really cause for concern and cause right gentlemen, that's all the time we have one of my guest here in moscow want to think of you are still watching us here. are the see an ex family member. ah ah ah ah, a

ah. a notion dumbly new machine to restock and just look up from when levels only a muscle is onion noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green show on a nice to me as close to mama cook gas gush sift to somebody to look at that. i put a, his ashley of a dc wanted was the duplicate pieces, goes down to the levels. wonder, know, please, this sort of cool zation to pick. omitted you but not, not, but the key for the chino drawings to network for phones that arrived. something

like that, and then we got that voice id that might be worth a 1000000 with grain. lisa. ah, the suffered because we're getting them business and you will clean them, but he had a b, e l. does he not us to resign? yeah, americans, great. you, leroy, you huge. it's got to it is just such not good to know ceiling and provide you with stuff such and sure. ruckel amos lamps. if october 3rd, if not sitting in full shelter washing, you had to use her own the with them the throne, you're still. where would that actually she to lose your years. i was sick yesterday, she was fluid. this is jill netapp lucas annoies clark. did a much chilton lots as cujo of you, you know, some slight.