sons would be a traumatic move if china seas, this is dustin will hang on. actually these europeans and americans are not trustworthy or they could just decide that we're now an enemy. and in fact, you know, we do find various statements from various politicians that seem to suggest such an idea. then china and also many of the countries could start to withdraw their assets from. what essentially is the u. s. c of influence and that could precipitate a dramatic collapse in the use of the us dollar and also the euro. now such a decision could also back fire for the you. sanctions of course, can be challenged in court. you courts and the book doesn't have a great record of winning such cases. ukraine's former president jana colvin. egypt for president mubarak both won sanction related lou seats against the new meaning

the idea of spending rushes seized money could be just a lot of hotter challenge, even skin r t. paris that those are for me. i'll be back in just under 29 minutes. this is our change national guard, have you with us ah ah ah ah ah ah

ah. hello and welcome to cross not we're all things considered. i'm funeral about 77 years ago. fascism in europe was bank, which the price paid for this victory was staggering. that experience remains part of russia's political and historical dna to this day. on this edition of the program, we discussed why big today is honored in russia and largely forgotten in the west. ah, to discuss this and more, i'm joined by my guest here in moscow. maxine stop, he is the wrecker of the center of advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. and we have to meet with barbara. she's a political analyst and editor knows me. internet media project originally across

stock rolls. and the fact that means you can jump in anytime you want, and i would appreciate it. let's start out with maxine, maxine, this is a victory day on victory day in the great patriotic wars. it's called here in russia. and if you go down the streets, i see the st. george ribbon is the plans are all out, of course for the big 3 days renown for some military parade. and the president giving a speech. what makes it important this year, as opposed to the very 1st one and all the ones in between? go ahead. well, i think the meaning of the picture day is important and least 3 dimensions. one is a war that has united the entire nation and blot every other russian family have relative or decent travel to either flaw or a gauge in this war,

and some form or the out. so this is, as you accurately mention, this in the country and a dna. the 2nd important aspect of it is this is a milestone to the russian history that has become the core of the state and entity in the post soviet russia. she is in the early days of the soviet union, the most important date was november 7th, you know, the, the revolution of russia. it is the may, 9th, that is the, the key date and kind of shaping the state identity. and finally, and i think that goes directly to your question, it is important because it is not just about russia, it's about, you know, the human sacrifice. it's about the human tragedy, and it's about the ability of great powers, regardless of their geopolitical disagreements to come to their senses at a critical moment. so the world, you know, and it's a sign that political games may come to very,

very far and pull the world to the threshold of elation. and this is a reminder that this shouldn't ever happen. well, is it words of great wisdom here? and i completely agree with your assessment dem, uh, let's kind of flip it upside down. but eventually in europe is celebrated on may 8th because of the time differences and all that time when the war came to an end. but it's not something that is really widely remembered or even honored at all in the west. and when i was, even as a child growing up, because my father was a veteran of the 2nd world war, you know, we, we thought of it, but not on the same, less grand scale. we hasn't been for a very long time. hollywood is kind of taken up the, the slack we're world war to film still, but that's just about it. a huge difference here in russia and in the west. go ahead. well, the main reason, of course,

was the loss. a r a b, you will know was a she also all right? is it the, was it in the whole or right, right, right, right. and then it will. so you have a lease, i would say nurse a, i mean a . ready uses are, well, in fact,

only years. b we'll use are now sitting there with his no l s a r a, you know, sheer are all the key tomorrow. and there was a letter, a, as a right now. and then just my next question, maxima, it, i mean, not only is a reverence for victory in europe losing any kind of meaning.

we have just the, actually the reverse and deem as already hinted out. it is, we have a form of revisionism. so not only is, you know, that not only is the soviet union not given and the peoples of the soviet union, given credit for the, the destruction of fascism in europe. it's, it's being diminished. and it's actually being played down to the point where, what was the soviet union while the war started in the 1st place. i mean, we've gone through this entire, you know, a re here is really quite remarkable. and it's actually happened quite quickly. that same. i agree, i look at it in 2 ways. on the one hand, it is part of the greater revision of history that is taking place in the western societies. you know, where, where a lot of the see groups in the us and elsewhere are revising their own history. not just the history of other cities or international. so that's part of that

pattern, or trend. on the other hand, you know, throughout the human history, the most important thing was whose army winds and the 21st century and the growing technological and information age. it's important who narratives once so i know why by trying to tackle the most important thing, the most important identity making element of the russian society of the russian say this part of this, you know, greater geopolitical struggle against, against russia in my view. well, the same thing, question to you, i mean we, we have to the new york review of books used to be a bell other for intellectual dot in america. unfortunately, hasn't been the case for a very long time when i can, i can remember. and stephen po and john mearsheimer know, you know, the grace, you know, debating on the, the, the importance of the settlement in europe after the war and how it create the

geopolitical environment that gave birth to the post more environment. and we have so much of that seems of just been peeled away. and again, just to d, legitimize any kind of positive role that russia is played on the world stage in the last century. it's really quite remarkable. well, it's a to see how he used the situation so far. it was very easy to read or b, b, y, e spoken. so concerned about history of what you gave him. roger was aggressive as many story and made him stop for the

rush is not that it's not no ways in the security council that we can do what we want. and you know, so this is what they're trying to do to support these are all the way they're in the less the bakery in world war 2, gave rise in russia to send, you know, what did all these users have? why? they said it certainly when he will do this, they said, so you don't know, right?

as knowing we have knowing it, we just got a few nations down the road. i thought it would be 5, millions all calls are being and all so why mind what is the story or are we disjoint inside? and the way she is nautica,

well known a it's a much, much really you know, i, in my introduction you know, the vanquishing fascism in europe. but that is not the western narrative right now is the soviet union defeated germany. ok because they want to take the ideological element out of it and the rush is very insistent that it must remain ok. and this is, and i think this is so very important because of trends that are going on in europe right now. we can talk a little bit about what's going on in ukraine as well. but there's this, this refusal to look at in an ideological terms, go ahead. well, there is a refusal to look at it in on a logical terms in the way that we're framed. you know, shortly after world war 2, but definitely not, refusal to look at it in modern day ideological terms. you know, with this quote unquote, democracy was autocrat. i kind of thing, this is kind of

a different type of framing of the ideological struggle. that is now, is now be in which i totally agree with what i call except that it's, you know, that it's an attempt to 1st do legitimize the victory. and then, you know, you try to push russia out, you know, that's all of the pictures, but then come very practical and things such as, you know, the removal of rush or the temporal rush from the un security council that is already been taking place. you know, they attempt to review the post war architecture, you know, in the very principles on the basis of it and try to restore a new world order on very different principles. and where russia is not a player. a rather a player very want to hold this very important that we have to go to

a hard break and after that hard breaking, can your discussion on some real new state? oh, no look forward to talking to you. oh, that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. and the point obviously is to race trust rather than fear a take on various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect his phone existence, with

a well to make the process where all things are considered. i get a little, this is the home addition remind you were discussing some real ah let's see, manage, and then we had to go to a break here, but you were talking about the nature of european architecture. let's take a look at that. you know, what was what came is result of the war, the end of the cold war. and now, because this is really, i think, the colonel of it all about what kind of security arrangement that europe needs. go ahead. well, exactly, i was saying, you know, it's important. i think it from what we observed today for the western states with us in particular to ensure that russian is not part of the new european security

arrangement that is now emerging. it is not a player and the original repair both your brain and western institutions, not just with financial, you know, acids that been frozen or outside the country in foreign banks, but also morally politically, you know, because you always have to restore a new world war. and a new security arrangement on the ashes of the old one and on the basis of something, you know, back in the day was on the basis of the german and japanese military infrastructure and their political ambitions. both germany and japan were successfully integrated into the western states. no, but today it's, it's an attempt to, to, to, you know, to rush into that type of place. if we can go this way even don't rush. it was not militarily defeated fee because you know that,

you know, that's, it gets to the point of it here demon, let me of you because that's what they want. they want a vanquished russia. so it can be integrated like the bank, which countries of germany and japan after the 2nd world war demon jump in. this is their programs. we were also the for the game and i, when i gave it became an ally, but it was, it was a supplicant. as well, okay. you know, it's not a friendship of equal to the image. you know, so, you know, i mean is equal and if you want to buy the

mostly done by the soul, you know more about the better i feel you don't make people lazy by that. so indeed, the joy was, you know, we never been buying and what would be wrong with my german 4 people, the west change gender. they changed it to completely different from what i used to be. neither were you know, be very upset. i don't know if you

were probably need was very much against russian style in north you know people will then you will be. josh was very upset about that. is that you were you, my son was rushed the gun from didn't work either you or you want a lot more and then the war and right, you know, why? so that's why it would be more and more and more,

you know, same way hold on hold while you, you've mentioned a regime in care. maxine, this is one of the things i find very problematic in this, in this age of censorship. it's, it's, it's so important to be able to say the truth of what's going on and what kind of political elements the us in the european union of the so supporting and ukraine since 2014, when there was the illegal overthrown the democratically elected government and so i'm, you know, the groups, i'm talking about a dar, private sector of all these people here that are not shy in their ideological dispositions. and this is a well known in the west, but you wouldn't public's don't know it because it's overlooked or not seen is important. or these are into a small number of individuals,

always passing it off for some reason. but it's really quite poignant here on big 3 day in, in russia, when the west is supporting the kind of forces that the soviet union bank bank was 77 years ago. go ahead max. it was the, the are of the policy making is the, are offset the right priority. so i want to go back to where i started with talking about the today's victory day isn't working in the sense that it's reminder of the human sacrifice and the ability of the great ours to work together. i think as we move forward, any other less veterans per year from the war and the memory of that war is no longer fresh with the new generations. and, you know, the history of the worst obligated the history of the soviet american british alliance is complicated. so there was a on a number of occasions and appreciation on the part of moscow of the need for

a new basis for russia will start ration made his famous speech and un general assembly in 2015, calling for a new anti hitler coalition against isis. now that did not work out, so we don't really see on the horizon. and any me that would potentially unite russia in the west. so the quality of the leads have changed in the west dramatically. and the new release chosen the priority to, to, to, you know, and getting back to this domain upgrade. all right? russia, is it adversary in any? and every single tool, an audiology is used to torpedo it, and you can hear it both the collateral damage and into the policy. you know what, you know? we've talked, we've talked about changing narratives and one of the narratives, even in my long spell in living in your country,

is that i see i see the commemorating victory de more is a victory of the, of the peoples of the soviet union of the russian in all other nationalities that sacrifice because that's the key word over and over again. it's sacrifice that was made here and it is not to promote or venerate any kind of ideology. it's more a human suffering and sacrifice because it was the soviet union and it was a communist country. but when we think about it now in 2022, it's more about sacrifice. would you agree with her in our lives, in the years or whatever they want to see a lot of want to be i don't want to see that was you know,

you are summarizing the car. i would say right there in the lane portals i see that there were russian people. you may all of the creation there are, i don't know. sure. read all the neighbors. friends. i've already got to be realize it was a real and in the thing way i don't want to be made by all the live a is again, course we've also and your

maybe you know, so i a whole that point we really was there really so it's time for us to be and to go there as being in that same finally be in the united nations security council passed a, a resolution about ukraine and it was, it was, it was, it wasn't very specific. i mean, least, there was some kind of agreement here, but it's, and as we think about this day victory day, it really pains me that there are so little, little awareness that a major conflict is in the making. and i, and that's what we should, you know, that's what she considered today, what has been lost and what can be lost again. and i think we're still,

we're still are not in the same for major conflict and trajectory of things in this recent weeks. you know, new york times in town talking about, you know, what they alleged real support of the us intelligence for any military operations can stop rushing and you know, brass and other is really, you know, actually think in my view, increasing the stuff right. our direct, right, our escalation clash. so i think that's why in my view what, what i just spoke, you know, the quality of the lease is so different from what we dealt with, you know, and we'll work to shortly after the world war 2 or even in the late 9099. yes. so i personally, you know, saying that this time is hard times, you know, usually give birth to greater leaders. i will say my,

and it was pretty much there. yeah. big quality leadership in the west and it's nothing to write about as they say. well, i think, i hope our viewers will take the take away from this program. is that the, the people of the soviet union, particularly the russian nation, separate enormously and to see russia and european neighbors where they are right now. it's really cause for concern parts, right? and that's all the time we have one of the, i guess here in mosque, i want to think our viewers watch here are the inexpensive number of the the, the, me for the moving the business. and you will clean the 3

day notice shoes on your medical graham. when you wrote, you just got to release the sanction of the ceiling, influential such image of the different student until a child when you get thrown with them probably. and you're still not sure if you're here, take you history as you would not be study skills on just a bunch of stuff coming to us on ok. which which longer it was just posted just a moment because i knew a lot you're running. don't know which guy know for the don't know if i should just to do it and then we're going to do you just opinion for us is come on the

news. the tremendous fireworks displays celebrating the historic defeat of naziism are held across cities in ukraine and the dunbar where russian forces have taken control. the victory day parades in the dawn bass are also held for the 1st time since the coo and 8 years ago. we hear from american journalist who describes how things work during that time in the city of the guns ever since my down math, and they've had free reign and they've been murdering great pain robbing people. and quite thankfully russia and ukraine president zelinski and its military post a photo on social media of a soldier probably display.