is what is it about for you? well, i think the conflict in ukraine is a tragedy, certainly for the civilians that have been effective, but also for the military from both sides. we know that war kinetic conflict is a terrible thing in terms of the human costs. why last? people heard wooded, named it, also the economic destruction. but i would not agree that it is a localized conflict because as i've written and spoken about and other venues, i believe that this really is 3 different conflicts are wars. there is also a media or propaganda war being waged by the western countries with the annual phone countries at its core. and perhaps most significantly, there is an economic war that is being waged, initiated by the you of us and it allies. it was russia,

and it's this 3rd war that i think in particular, is having a global impact. and we are only starting to see the beginnings of it, and he's affecting energy prices. it's affecting food prices. it's also affecting fertilize prices and for wiser availability which can have long term repercussions for food security. and perhaps most unfortunately for the global order, i think it really has destroyed what remaining legitimacy there is in the us lead financial system. mr. mcdaniel love to impact here. so let's go step by step and i want to 1st emphasize something that you mentioned that the military aspect of this struggle in, in your view is the least significant from a geopolitical perspective. you are essentially saying that war as tragic and as

horrible as it is, is not the most dangerous thing that is going on right now. i understand you correctly. well, a yes and no. so i do think the military conflict is a catalyst for the propaganda or slash media war and the economic war. so they're not completely separate. also we can see, and i think this is very, very dangerous and alarming is the military conflict does have the potential to escalate both in terms of the, the, the geographical scope of the conflict as well as the types of weapons being used. and i think everyone around the world is very, very concerned about the potential of this escalating to some sort of nuclear exchange. so i would maybe modify a little bit what you said to say that i do think military conflict is important, having broader repercussions. but clearly the economic war is having an immediate,

global and hack. and i think has a least forces that may reshape the world in ways that many people might not like to see. in one of your articles, you pointed out that many old school american strategies did your cannon, henry kissinger, on marriage, hymer, they all warned against crossing russian red lines and ukraine. and they did not out of concern for russia, but rather out of concern for the international system that by and large is still shaped in favor of the united states. wouldn't be fair to say that this animosity, i don't know what else the towards or russia or pigeon personally, he's blinding western decision makers, have their own peril that they're harming their own interest in doing that. so you're absolutely right. that are people like john mearsheimer in particular are realist and have a very pragmatic view of international fairs. as of course, does,

henry kissinger is arguably. ready or to canon as well. so you are absolutely right to say that they've warned against exactly what is happening today. not out of concern for russia, but i think out of a very clear eyed understanding of the nature of the world in particular, the nature of europe. and i think this leads me to this idea of indivisible security which has, for whatever reason, either inadvertently, or deliberately been ignored by the west, by nato. and dismissing the legitimacy of russian security concerns. i think reasonable people can debate and argue, you know, which of those concerns can be accommodated. ready should be accommodated, but this kind of wholesale dismissal legitimacy of it, i think,

has been very, very bad for russia, but also self destructive were the quote, global international, the global warner, which really, i think we mean the us international order. now this tension between russia and 800 particular are not new. and yet, you know, there is a sounds that there is a lot of similarity between divide and administration and the obama administration . their rhetoric is similar. there are a lot of, you know, the same people working for that administration, and yet it is my perception that during the obama administration, while all those tensions were still present, i mean, in your brain and sarah, and many other parts of the world that the obama nutrition still managed to avoid bringing it to such an acute blow out that may be wrong. i. what i want to ask is whether you see any difference between the obama

administration and the vitamin nutrition and the ability to predict, strategize about how they deal with russian. i think certainly there is significant overlap between the obama administration and buy it into ministration. as you say, i think the world use probably a lot to different. i think maybe there has been some difference in terms of the ex, each execution of the number of those policies. you know, president obama to time was reputed to instead, never underestimate goes ability to ask things up. but again, as we've seen with, with crawl from afghanistan, certainly, i think the verdict on the western response to russia's, the russian creating conflict, i think still remains to be seen. i do disagree with a lot of the western narrative that this is proven to be a colossal failure on the part of russia. i think that it's probably too early to

tell. so, you know, we have to see, i think what difference though is that certainly, while obama in the obama administration there was a talk of a pivot to asia. certainly under the bi invited administration, there is a very clear recognition that china is the whole pacing threat. and again, whether we'll see a significant change as a result of the conflict crane or not. certainly, i think the rhetoric and the bi demonstrations been very, very consistent that the u. s. is attention really should be on china. but mr. morgan, there are a lot of analyst, even here in russia, who said just that indirectly these calls like may be beneficial to china because while the americans keep talking their talk, their ability to actually address what they see as china's problem is now curtailed

. to significant extent, do you agree with that? well, i can certainly see why some would say that. but i think that one thing we should bear in mind too is china's rhetoric. and i will say behavior has been consistent over the decades, and that alignment is around the central idea. the peaceful development really has to be the goal. and corollary to that is that this whole war block type thinking us versus them, the good guys versus the bad guys is really culture productive for everybody. yet, of course, it's not in china's interest to pursue a new cold war or some sort of destructive competition with other countries around the world. i would say that even for the united states,

that it would be much better served if it did not have to devote as much money as it does to the military, to defend spending and could reallocate some of that towards domestic priorities. so in my view, i think that china has been very consistent in its words and actions to promote peaceful development for all. now, i'm myself, a russian and we, russians are known for, you know, our emotionality, and sometimes poor execution of critical thinking. but even to me, when i look at the way how these conflict in many others are covered in what media it's, you know, it's raw emotion, or shameless moralizing, almost. and the total cost of total exclusion of any new and any context, any analysis. and i wonder if it's a tactic of persuasion of what you mentioned,

does the propaganda war before, or whether it is perhaps the bigger problem of the west, essentially losing the ability to see reality or to approach reality as it is rather than what it wanted to be i think there's probably a little bit of both. busy so in fact, one area that i focus on in research is understanding the difference between the chinese system and the western system really centered around the end of the world. i think one thing that gets really missed is that there really is a profound difference in world view and in the west. again, starting mostly with world, there is a dualistic view of the world that comes from plato. ready from greek philosophy that sees the world is to separate spheres. so there is the world of absolute truth,

justice, freedom exist in some absolute way and the world that we see and live in our the shadows is plato, calls it shadows on the. busy wall, where's the chinese view, is that in fact there's only one world and where that leads to a problem that you talk about. the moralizing is that for countries like the u. s. and other countries that have a very strong certain kind of christian tradition is that the idea of being there only being one god and being on the side of righteousness is seen is very, very important. and what we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few moments. mm. mm hm.

i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to great trust, rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect this phone existence with a since the break away, the donates people's republic,

wounds being ranging and don't boss. ukrainian. artillery has been showing civilian, townsend, mining village. is that your more? very lovely deal with what i grew up with a deal about one of your company a little above all the 3 little boys will give us bullet one. the me a welcome back to world report with andy more senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization. mr. moore, before the break,

we were talking about these different ontological to us offical approaches between china and the west. and it also has, you know, very practical implications, i think, in many countries and, but especially china, very sensitive, very attuned to that of ordinary features of life. you know, poverty or living stand there's, you know, providing for the people. whereas many in the west have taken the prosperity that they had over the last couple of decades for granted. now that these changes start to pack them as while, and people are seeing them of the palms they're seeing in the supermarket. do you think, how, how much longer do you think there wasn't, can't afford to maintain this, you know, godly attitude towards the rest of the world and seeing itself as the only dispenser of common. good. well this is exactly that. i think the world that we're

facing in that, you know, we return this idea of the west having this dualistic view of the world. and that the us from other western countries being the godly, moralizing seders, what we see replacing terms like religious piety and virtue. now are freedom and democracy, and this is the dynamic that's driving it. however, i think we are in new territory now, because this economic war has also seen the shattering of the legitimacy of the u. s. leg financial system. so the seizing of russian bank, central assets, i think, really has caused a reevaluation around the world. and it's not only russia, iran, dennis wales that have suffered these kinds of sanctions. but now i think many, many countries are thinking that you know, it's probably not a bad idea to have an alternative to swift,

to alternative to the u. s. dollar. and that, i think will unleash profound consequences that the u. s. may very well come to regret, but those that have suffered under dollar germany may have caused to celebrate one potential loose or in this conflict. even though it for now proclaims its allegiance to the united states is europe. it's interesting that many western or rather european countries, while they continue pledging or paying lip service today and unity, it's pretty clear that, you know, they share or of the burden from the sanctions and from the economic disturbance with, with russia is very different from, for, from country to country how much longer do you think this unity can can be maintained given how differently the. busy loud is distributed,

the geo political logic of europe after world war 2 was the keep germany down russia out of the u. s. id. so now, as we see germany announcing much greater defense spending as a result of these recent events. we have to see again this, if this indeed does lead to a significant re militarization in germany, i think that will have repercussions within the u, but also globally as well. we also then need to look at the, just the pure economics of it. and, you know, i've spoken to hedge fund investors that focus on the energy sector. and you know, there's a feeling that in fact, not just the most, some investors, but i think even some germans as well, that their economic interest in future actually are more aligned with russia than

with the united states. and this could be the catalyst, but fractions. this unity again, you know, i think predicting the future is incredibly difficult, not impossible, but i think certainly it raises these questions. you mentioned this, this new trends of germany reshaping its stance on military zation and a couple of days ago there was a major meeting of nato countries or native representatives as one of a military basis, american military base in germany, where they discussed the supply of weapons to ukraine, to fight their regular russian r ma'am. as a russian, as a person who was born in leningrad, i can tell you that, i mean, even with cool, strategic approach and, you know, they have here in reality, it's extremely, extremely difficult for the russian you. if you see germany being

a center of military zation against the russia, again, how concerned are you about those irrational factors? you know, you said that it's difficult to predict the future, but we also have a very, very difficult history in the life of many people in the psychology of many people is still alive. i completely agree. and i think this is what makes these security challenges. so back saying, so to see it in simplistic terms as russia launched an unprovoked attack against ukraine, i think is overly simplistic not to say what russia did is justify, are completely justified. but these are complex issues that are partly crowded in some objective factors like economics, like national security, but also the experienced the lived experiences of different people in that region.

and clearly, you know, the history has been tragic, but also i think, plays today's still a very, very work role. now, let's also not forget the economic aspect of it. and as you mentioned before, it's not just an issue for russia and the was there, there's the rest of the world as well. that is forced without even being asked to carry the burden of certainly unilateral decisions. and there are many countries in africa and asia that are genuinely concerned about the danger of hunger because of the arising fuel and with prices. we don't know what the future may bring yet. depend damage is not fully over. do you think the rest of the world which is keeping you in trying to find now i think by and large, do you think it will remain quiet or stable as is not stable but and

non protesting, or for now or do you think there would be some conversation, some initiative launched to sort of reshape the system so that it is not a how, hostage by the decision of any group of entries, the russia, let's say, or the united states. i think every country around the world shares a common interest in seeing this conflict being resolved as quickly as possible. but i'm afraid that given what's happened so far, the economic effects, including the impact of food supply will be with us for quite a while. so we need to understand that ukraine, russia dollars are, are important sources of graves like corn wheat ah barley, but also important source of fertilizer as well. and one of the issues is even if the caught, the military conflict were to start tomorrow. or there is still been damage to

court facilities, other infrastructure that may constrain the ability to ship a food and other commodities. so i think unfortunately of the world war read the suffer as a result of this. now the question is, how bad will again, and again, it's not only rising energy prices as we've seen now. ah, with countries like poland, ah, and bulgaria unwilling to pay and rules that's causing energy prices to rise up. now as planting seasons of different crops past crops are not planted. there will be long term effects. unfortunately. now you mentioned the issue of currency and russia and china have already switched to on nominated trade in certain m, like in oil i, i think also gas,

but the rest of the world is still kind of in the middle. there are some talks between china and saudi arabia, about doing the same. and transitioning to you on i, you know, i, what i want to ask you is whether it's china is indeed dad much interested in that or raising the propping of the, the importance of you on, given how significant it's for reserves are still, you know, even the proportion of with 4 and reserves that are still denominated in dollar. why do you know country wants people are? it's a chronometer to be held hostage. and we've seen, of course, what's happened to russia most recently. but iran has been, dennis whaler has been in this boat, even countries like france and germany that we're looking to work with. iran also

encountered some very severe constraints and tried to set up their own payment system, i believe is called ins techs. so there clearly is global demand for an alternative to dollars in germany. and we can see also india, i believe, a set up a ruby rubel mechanism to continue to trade with russia. so again, i think that the key issue here, which, you know, i go back to this comments that leather binding administration may have inadvertently damaged american interest. far worse than any benefits they could get from their economic war against russia. because the u. s. is not only a very player in the economic arena, but also it has been a referee. if we think about the dollar as reserve currency as a global of accounts. swift, which, you know,

although in name is but actually is defacto controlled by the united states that seen as a fair and biased part of the global infrastructure as now we've seen can be weaponized. and i think this lots of legitimacy really will have one for reproduction. and it's not a question if mr. mark, speaking about the nature of money as you point out in many of your articles, money be on the rubble or diller. just at the end of the day, pieces of paper or bits in the, in the digital database, there ultimately means of accounting. and what matters the most of the terms of the exchange and whether there is terms will or will not be changed. mean way as often happens to the us dollar. now as you on rises in permanent,

do you think china will be able to resist the temptation of abusing it's a newly found influence? well, that's a very good question, but i think there's 2 ways to answer this. so, what it is that we can understand, global currency, regimes, or empires as following a life cycle. what humans have a life insight, re valeo, the hedge fund investor, the founder of bridgewater, a very large spokes, hedge fund right extensively about this, that if you look at the history of the dutch field for the british pound of us dollar, you see a period of rise and decline, and this will happen independently. what that does regarding the u. n. again, we have to see, i think, clearly i think that china has so a commitment to being

a responsible stakeholder in the global system. so i think we have that for the other thing is that i think that the dollar of the grant, i will not replace the dollar, but certainly having an alternative. it could be very valuable and i think will have profound geopolitical consequences because one of the results are not just dollar gemini, but the dollar becoming pure theat money after $971.00. when the link with gold was severed, is that it allowed us essentially to print as much money as it wanted to buy things domestically and globally that had wanted. and one of these things that it wanted was a global military footprint. so the u. s. i believe the u. s. military budget is more than $800000000000.00. now that if the u. s. is constrained in its ability to

essentially print, i'll use that or not, backed by old. think certainly that will cause a change in its ability to spend, including spending on the military. so i think this is another very, very important consequence of what we're witnessing as a result of the u. s. as economic workforce rushed. let's leave it here. it's been great pleasure talking to you. thank you very much for that. thank you. having it. and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week. all the part. ah mm mm mm ah,

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even from taishan, let it be in arms, race is on offensive, very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk with no one. no, no, no. hon. who are you? no, no. what? all more shrill than what they should end up unit 73. 1 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly

biological weapons program that the world had ever know. a tremendous fireworks display celebrating the historic defeat of naziism are held across cities that ukraine and the dumbass where russian forces have taken control . victory day celebrations in the dumbass are freely held for the 1st time since the qu in q 8 years ago. we hear from an american journalist who describes how things work during that time in the city. look on ever since my down happened, they've had free reign and murdering raping robbing people. and quite thankfully russia, ukraine, president zelinski and if the military post a photo on social media of a soldier proudly displaying a nazi symbol and

a message.