i think in particular is having a global impact and we are only starting to see the beginnings of it and he's affecting energy prices. it's affecting food prices. it's also affecting fertilizer prices and for wiser availability, which can have long term repercussions for food security. and perhaps most unfortunately for the global order, i think it really has destroyed what remaining legitimacy there is in the us lead financial system. mr. mcdaniel love to impact here. so let's go step by step. and i want to 1st emphasize something that you mentioned that the military aspect of this struggle in, in your view is the least significant from a geopolitical perspective. you're essentially saying that war as tragic and as horrible as it is, is not the most dangerous thing that is going on right now,

and i understand you correctly. well, a yes and no. so i do think the military conflict is a catalyst for the propaganda or slash media war and the economic war. so they're not completely separate. also we can see, and i think this is very, very dangerous and alarming is the military conflict does have the potential to escalate both in terms of the, the geographical scope of the conflict as well as the types of weapons being used. and i think everyone around the world is very, very concerned about the potential of this escalating to some sort of nuclear exchange. so i would maybe modify a little bit what you said to say that i do think the military conflict is important. having. busy broader repercussions, but clearly the economic war is having an immediate global impact. and i think

a has a least forces that may reshape the world in ways that many people might not like to see. in one of your articles, you pointed out that many old school american strategies did your cannon, henry kissinger, john marriage, hymer, they all warned against crossing russian red lines in ukraine. and they did not out of concerned for russia, but rather out of concern for the international system that by and large is still shaped in favor of the united states. wouldn't be fair to say that this animosity, i don't know what else the towards or russia or pigeon personally, is blinding western decision makers have their own peril that they're harming their own interest in doing that. so you're absolutely right. that are people like john mearsheimer in particular are realist and have a very pragmatic view of international fairs. as of course, does,

henry kissinger and arguably. ready go to canon as well. so you are absolutely right to say that they've warned against exactly what is happening today. not out of concern for russia, but i think out of a very clear eyed understanding of the nature of the world in particular the nature of europe. and i think this leads me to this idea of indivisible security which has, for whatever reason, either inadvertently, or deliberately been ignored by the west, by nato. and dismissing the legitimacy of russian security concerns that i think reasonable people can debate and argue which of those concerns can be accommodated or should be accommodated. but this kind of wholesale dismissal legitimacy of it, i think, has been very, very bad for russia,

but also self destructive were the auto co global international, the global warner, which really, i think, we mean the us international order now essentially be then russia and later in particular not new and yet you know, there is a sounds that. a there's a lot of similarity between divide and administration and the obama administration . their rhetoric is similar. there are a lot of, you know, the same people working for that administration. and it is my perception that during the obama administration, while all those tensions were still present in your brain and sarah, in many other parts of the world, that the obama nutrition still managed to avoid bringing it to such an acute blow out. that may be wrong. i, what i want to ask is whether you see any difference between the obama administration and the vitamin nutrition and the ability to predict and strategize

about how they deal with russian. i think certainly there is a significant overlap between the obama administration and the by an administration, as you say. and i think the world views probably are not too different. i think maybe there has been some difference in terms of the ecc execution of a number of those policies. you know, president obama times reputed to have said never underestimate, goes ability to ask things up, as we've seen with crawl from afghanistan. certainly, i think the verdict on the western response to russia's, the russian creating conflict, i think still remains to be seen. i do disagree with a lot of the western narrative that this has proven to be a colossal failure on the part of russia. i think that it's probably too early to tell, so you know, we have to see what he would do. prince though,

is that certainly a wall, obama in the obama administration, there was a talk of the pivot to asia. certainly under the, by an invited administration. there's a very clear recognition that china's the quote unquote pacing thread. and again, whether we'll see a significant change as a result of the conflict crane or not. certainly, i think the rhetoric and the, the by the administration's been very, very consistent that the u. s. is attention really should be on china. but mr. mcg, i and there are a lot of analysts, even here in russia has adjust that indirectly. this conflict may be beneficial to china because americans keep talking their talk are the ability to actually address what they see as china's problem is now curtail a significant extent. do you agree with that?

well, i can certainly see why some people would say that, but i think that one thing we should bear in mind too is china's rhetoric. and i will say behavior has been consistent over decades, and that alignment is arouse the central idea. the peaceful development really has to be the goal. and corollary to that is that this cold war block type thinking us versus them, the good guys versus the bad guys, is really culture productive for everybody. of course, it's not in china's interest to pursue a new cold war or some sort of destructive competition with other countries around the world. i would say that even for the united states, that it would be much better served if it did not have to devote as much

money as it does to the military to defend spending. and could we allocate some of that towards domestic priorities. so in my view, i think that china has been very consistent in its words and actions to promote peaceful development. and for all now i'm myself, a russian and we russians are known for our emotionality and sometimes poor execution of critical thinking. but even to me, when i look at the way how these conflict, many others are covered in what media it's, you know, it's raw emotion, or shameless moralizing, almost. and the total cost of total exclusion of any new and any context, any analysis. and i wonder if it's a tactical persuasion of what you mentioned as the propaganda war before,

or whether it is perhaps the bigger problem of the west, essentially losing the ability to see reality or to approach reality as it is rather than what it wants it to be i think there's probably a little bit of both. so in fact, one area that i focus on in research is understanding the difference between the chinese system and the western system really centered around the world. i think one thing that gets really missed is that there really is a profound difference in world view and in the west. again, starting mostly would be a world where there is a dualistic view of the world that comes from plato. ready from greek philosophy that sees the world is 2 separate spheres. so there is the world of absolute truth . justice freedom exists in some absolute way and the world that we see him live in

are these shadows, was plato, calls it shadows on the wall. where's the chinese view? is that in fact there's only one world and where that leads to a problem, then you talk about the moralizing, is that for countries like the u. s. some other countries that have a very strong certain kind of christian tradition is that the idea of being there only being one true god and being on the side of righteousness is seen is very, very important. mr. mark, we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few moments. mm. mm hm.

ah ah. ah

ah the me a welcome back to where the board with and the more senior research fellow at the center for china and globalization, mr. mall before the break we were talking about these different ontological to social approaches between china and the west. and it also has, you know, very practical implications. i think many countries and, but especially very attuned to live, you know, poverty living standards, you know, providers have taking the prosperity that they had over the last couple of tickets

for granted. now that these changes start toms, they're seeing in the supermarket. do you think how, how it was get afford to maintain this, you know, god believe the only dispenser of common good. i think the world that we're facing in that you know, we. busy all bands that us from other western countries, moralizing seders, what we see replacing idea in virtue now are freedom and democracy. and this is the how ever i think we are in new territory now. because so seen the shattering of the legitimacy of the us lead financial bank, central assets, i think really has caused a we value not only russia, a ron dennis wales that have suffered sanctions. but now i think many, many countries are thinking that, you know, it's probably not a bad idea to have an alternative to swift,

to alternative to the u. s. dollar. and that, i think will unleashes that the u. s. may very well come to regret, but those that have suffered under dollar germany may have caused to celebrate one potential loose or in this conflict. even though it for now proclaims it's allegiance to the united states is europe. it's interesting that many western, or rather european pledging or paying lip service today and unity, it's pretty clear that, you know, they share or of the burden from the sanctions and from the economic disturbance with, with russia is very different from, for, from country to country. how much longer do you think the unity can can be maintained given how differently the the. busy loud is distributed, the geo political logic of europe after world war 2 was to keep germany down russia

out of the u. s. id. so now as we see, we have to see again, you know, this, if this does lead to a significant re militarization in germany, have repercussion within the you. but also then need to look at the, just the pure economics of it. and, you know, i've spoken to hedge the sector and, you know, there's a feeling that in fact, i think even some germans as well, that their economic interest in future actually are more well knighted states. and this could be the catalyst fractions. this unity again you know, i think predicting the future is incredibly difficult, not to mention this, this new trend of germany and on the. busy reservation and a couple of days ago, there was

a nato countries on nader representatives. one of them are based in germany where they discussed the supply. oh wow. by the regular russian army, and as a russian, as a person who was born in leningrad, i can tell you that, i mean, he, even with cool strategic approach. and, you know, they have here and to reality tickets extremely, extremely difficult for the russian. you, you know, to see germany being a centre of militarization against the russia. again, how irrational factors you know, you said that it's difficult to predict the future, but we also have a very, very difficult history in the lives of many people in the psychology of many people is still alive. i completely agree. and i think this is what makes the security challenges so back saying, so to see it in simplistic terms as russia

launched an unprovoked attack and gives you credit, i think is overly simplistic. not to say what russia did is justify or completely justified. but these are complex issues, crowded in some objective factors like economics, like national security, but also the experienced the lived experiences of different people in that region. and clearly, you know, the history has been tragic, but also i think, plays today's still a very, very work role. now, let's also not forget the economic aspect of it. and as you mentioned before, it's not just an issue for russia and the was there, there's the rest of the world as well. if forced without even being asked to carry the burden of us, certainly unilateral decisions. and there are many countries in africa and asia that are genuinely concerned about. 1 the danger of hunger because of the arising

fuel and with prices. we don't know what the future may bring yet. depend damage is not fully over. do you think the rest of the world which is keeping it in trial? if i now i think by and large, do you think it will remain quiet or stable as it is not stable but non protesting for now or do you think there would be some conversation, some initiative launch to sort of reshape the system so that it is not a how caustic by the decision of any group of countries be the russia, let's say. busy or the united states, once every country around the world shears a common interest in seeing this conflict being resolved as quickly as possible. but i'm afraid that given what's happened so far, the economic effects, including the impact of food supply will be with us for quite

a while. so we need to understand that important sources of grains like corn, wheat, barley, but also important source refer to the issues is even if the cotton, the military conflict board is there, is still been damaged to corporate facilities, other infrastructure to ship food and other come out of these, so i think ford stuff for as a result of this, now the question is, how bad will it get going? again, it's not only rising with countries like polaroid and jerry are unwilling to pay a roubles that's causing energy prices to rise. but now as planting passive crops are not, there will be long term effects. unfortunately. now you mentioned the issue of currency and radius which to you on, you know, and they did trade in oil,

i think also in gas. but the rest of kind of, in the middle, there are some talks between china and saudi arabia, about doing the same. and transitioning to what i want to ask you is whether china is indeed and that are raising the probing of the, the import. how significant it's foreign reserves are still the proportion of foreign reserves that are still denominated in dollar a. to be held hostage. we've seen happen to russia most recently, but iran has been like france and germany that we're looking to work with payment system, i believe is in tex. so there were an alternative to dollar a germany and a ruby rubel mechanism can meet with russia. so again, i think that's the key issue. here's comments that are the bind administration

damaged american interests far worse than any benefits they could get from their economic war against russia. because the u. s. is not only a very player in the economic arena globally, but also it has been a referee. if we think about the dollar as reserve currency as a global unit of accounts. swift, which, you know, although in name is but actually is p facto controlled by the united states that seen as a fair and biased part of the global infrastructure as now we've seen can be weaponized. and i think this lots of legitimacy really was progressions and it's not a question if but when mr. mark, speaking about the nature of money as you point out in many of your articles, money be on the rubble or diller. just at the end of the day,

pieces of paper or bits in the, in the digital database, there ultimately means of accounting. and what matters the most of the terms of the exchange and whether there is terms will or will not be changed. mean way as often happens to the us dollar. now as you on rises, in prominent do you in china will be able to resist that temptation of amusing it's a newly found implants? well, that's a very good question. i think there's 2 ways to get answered. this, so one is that we can understand global currency regimes or em hires as following a life cycle, like humans have a life cycle in ray dalio, the hedge fund investor are the founder of bridgewater, a very large cesspool, ah, hedge fund, right extensively about this, that if you look at the history of the dutch gilbert,

the british pound of new us dollar, you see a period of rise of decline. and this will happen independently of which highland does. regarding the u. n. a. again, we have to see, i think, clearly i think that china has shown a commitment to being responsible stakeholder in the global system. so i think we have that on. the other thing is that i think that the dollar of the grant, i will not replace the dollar, but certainly having an alternative or could be a very valuable and i think will have profound to your for the results of not just dollar had gemini put the dollar becoming pure theat money after $977.00 is that allow the u. s. socially to printers?

my things are domestically and globally that had wanted and one of these things that it will military footprint. so does more than $800000000000.00 and now are there in its ability to essentially print io use that are certainly about will cause a chain. this is another very, very important question. let's leave it here. it's been a great pleasure talking to you. thank you very much. ah mm mm ah, ah, needs to come to the nurse landscape destination. linda king house lamps,

and i need to pardon speedy. when else calls about this, even though we will van in the european union the from the state aunt rush up to date and split ortiz sputnik given our band on youtube with little, you know, ugly rules job luna will do unit 73. 1 was a unique organization to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological and had ever known by the threats that we have it please even plantation, let it be. it's very dramatic development only personally,

i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very sit down and talk with germany. foreign minister pledge is more heavy during her 1st visit to the conflict torn country follow. promising to shut down germany is important also ahead once again a market. there is a school, there are residential buildings here, civilians that reportedly being held.