ah yeah, myrtle doesn't with well, it shows the wrong one. i just don't move out date becomes the advocate an engagement. it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah ah.

hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the group of 7 has vowed not to lead putin when his war against ukraine as the announced new restrictive measures. but what about the officially enforced narrative claiming ukraine is winning? the wes attempt to weaken russia have failed. in fact, the west is weakening itself with raw, sucking the situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess george samuel in budapest . he's a podcast or at the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals in munich. we have bra, ralph niemeyer, he is a leader of a german resistance movement and in st. petersburg across to gilbert doctorow. he is an independent political analyst and author of memoirs of an ex pat manager in moscow during the 1990. sorry, gentleman cross stock rules. in fact,

that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciate george. let me go to you 1st year. the g 7 is up to it. it's act again. here is if anybody really cares what the g 7 says, nora, but nonetheless, they have vowed that potent will not win his war against you. great. but what, what does that mean? what are they going to do about it? okay. other than inflict more misery on their own consumers and voters. go ahead, george. well, that's exactly right back all them they have that disposal, which is if they can misery on the ukrainians and of course on their own electrodes. and when victor or van said the other day that an oily mago completely cutting off from oil imports from russia will be like leasing you bomb on the gear or speaking, not just the gear ends, but for many europeans. this is an absolutely nonsensical idea of cutting yourself from energy employees to get them because of the destruction of your own economists

. and it's quite clear that there is no ready means at the european disposal to replace russian oil replace russian get. so all of it is just simply call the e u m. in order to look on the line was supposed to be the chief executive of the human. she's the president of the european emission. she has no enforcement mechanism. kick off call european to do one thing or another, she can talk along and out. but ultimately you're going to have to decide, are they going to stop or they get you freeze. i was just going to bring their economists the whole or are they just going to live their lives and then are going to follow the big will still on the line and the european emission and that's totally ukrainians. well, no one really cares very much about that. i mean, they just didn't count as part of the us,

the nato agenda. well, i'm glad you brought that up. gilbert. i mean, all of the russia now is the most sanction country ever. ok. how does that help the ukrainians at all go ahead and st. petersburg, it doesn't. anyway, it's a curious thing that westerns analysts had spoken about the their, their appreciation, rushes military effort up till now. they say that is proven, rushes weakens. that's quite extraordinary because the, the russian effort has captured a territory about the size of the united kingdom since the start of the, of the special military operation. it's also bears mention that russia is certainly the only country on earth with perhaps the exception of china, which is able to withstand the sanctions from hell with united states and its allies as we would have delivered, less often overlooked. so russia is proving itself to be strong in remarkable ways,

and in ways that no one in europe could equal. and that very fact as to the hostility, the envy of european countries and their leaders with respect to russia. so it's been paradoxical. the russia strength sheets to these are these vicious information war efforts by europeans, amber united states to compensate for their real loss of ground in the competition of russian. ralph, let me go to you and munich, m. o. many of us would have expected, the germans would play a much more prominent role instead of just being subservient to washington. because germany is, has the most to lose and is losing the most. i would say, i mean, i've never seen a political class of a major country willing to turn off the switches for of their entire economy. because somebody with no, with real, no real power in brussels, told them to, oh,

by the way, you know, i never thought i would have seen a german chancellor who i referred to as sergeant schultz on this program. beep openly insulted by the president of the united states and get away with it. i mean, what kind of leadership is germany have? what kind of leadership is europe have go ahead ralph. yeah, you just said right. we are obviously not our own man and mr. charles is not his own man, then being on the international stage, he obviously took orders from washington and it became quite visible a couple of days ago when he gave a speech, addressing us germans in english. so we wonder whether he lost his vocabulary book for us or but i use rather reporting back to washington because that's the truth. we are not submarines since the 990 is when we thought that we were suffering after the 2nd world war. and after the berlin wall had come down,

that we would have our own stay to the nation would be sovereign and we would get a piece straight to you eventually, but all of nations that we harmed during the 2nd world war. and you now see that actually germany is doing exactly what washington wants them to do. first, they said we are not going to send any arms into conflict which is against our law and against the people. it's not actually it's against the national law to do that . but suddenly we do it a week later, and there must have been some instructions from washington and they received them. and rom stain at the base here in germany from all american wars are still being rout ralph. leave the behavior of the german government and other governments in the european union make them co belligerence and this conflict. i think that, you know, that should be take, be noted, particularly the because of the regime type in care by the germans of all people

should be very aware of that. and in there it's completely whitewashed. we'll talk about white washing a little bit later. george, i want to go back to you again the g 7, you know? who must not way in, but i thought ukraine was winning. how do you explain this to me? maybe i missed something. go ahead. well, let's say the boy that on the g 7 and the western powers can't really make up their mind. i is russia just this hopeless, mediocre militarily incompetent, demoralized chaotic state that is being absolutely trounced and hammer by the plucky ukrainians. oh, does ukraine need no weapons desperately? and you know, we need to send everything that we've got in order to ensure a potent doesn't prevail. they can't really get the narrative. right? and so they go for one to another just in order to persuade the public that somehow

by sending in lots and lots of arms into ukraine, they are not actually endangering ok the safety of europeans and america. but george forgot it because they got charged met for 8 years. nato has been trading the ukranian army for 8 years. arms have been pouring into, you grain. i mean so more training, more arms. let me throw that to gilbert here. i mean there's, there's that we've been doing the western powers have been doing this for 8 years, and this is the result they're getting. so why would you fight pouring bad money or after reporting good money after bad money, go ahead in st. petersburg and effectiveness doesn't exist in vocabulary of the european leaders. they are posture is all post trump the he, what does this richard been sent to him? until recently? i have been. oh,

they haven't been ineffective and they have been delivering the way where they are destroyed on arrival. that does not bother a fluster. the, the western presidents and prime ministers, a very concerned with their relationship with united states, not really with their relationship with ukraine. and they want a demonstration of bid one another. well, i mean about ralph, i mean, what, what does ukraine mean to the german people? i mean, if you could speak for your entire people or just yourself here, but i mean, why is germany willing to sacrifice so much for a country that has no strategic value whatsoever to germany or the west? well i, as i said before, i believe that this is a do orders of someone else. germany is particularly not interested in ukraine. the hardly know much about it. i mean our culture is so different. you

think that polish people are closer to vest ukrainians, but even there i see a lot of differences, but here in germany, people are saying okay, people are suffering. let's take them on the refugees. we want to help. we want to look good with that and all that. yes. but on the other hand, we don't understand as a german people who ukrainians are and what they are. and not many of us even recall the recent history from a 100 years ago or from 77 years ago. mean last night we had the ambassador of ukraine on the german tv show, again that he's, mr. malik is quite extra kind of him this sense that he's accusing paper. busy and he said openly, the germans, we would owe them for 10000000 soldiers who lost their lives in freeing us from naziism. he's turning it completely around. i mean,

i've been there on the outer nationalist lead of a few grand at that time was. busy during ally of mr. hitler. so who fought guns to here and who freed us? i mean i wish that there would be clarity, at least here in germany on that matter because we wanted to be freed from fascism . but mr. ma certainly did not. they did the opposite. yeah, george, i mean we were, you and i have talked about at the, at the, the gaggle or podcast, how the narratives have been flipped. ok, where the good guys are now. the good guys are now the bad guys. bad guys are now the good guys. go ahead. 15 seconds before we go to the break. a speech on the day. he kind of pretty much suggested that somehow germany was one of the good guys and the russians. well, the bad guys and somehow you know, the price. oh, that thought hold that, that we have to go to

a hard break about hard break. will continue our discussion on the situation and you can stay with ah, ah, today i'm authorizing the additional strong sanction foreign companies, quitting russia. a blantan banks

disconnected from the international payments system. functional puppy joe mull donna and euro exchange rates follow up on that level up article. go more so, so i would know what the committee met, the focus to pin a c, a material with russian business overcome this song. c. yeah, i'm not bored enough to handle shit tremendously. just me don't pres, voice, bullshit, national, productive notches, steel nash, a mere bull. what i see that but then so when you come, when you with a cost, when you, when you see him with dr. new person who disposal the lose, lose, lose one bedrooms.

welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. true mind you were discussing the situation in ukraine. i go back to gilbert in st. petersburg. in the 1st part of the program, we were talking about who's giving orders to whom. here you have a dissenting opinion. go right ahead and say definitely who was getting directions to mister shows. but i would like to do a very important situation. she's been that in degrees in this regard and he was dependent on agreement range because of our agreements are not just any agreements were founded by you and ruby to read. and they had a program which included our foreign policy positions were always very anti

rushing. the last 20 years and the german greens have been the most bull in attacking russia in trying to sanction russia. therefore, it should come as no surprise that when the degrees, the aim, full members coalition and at the last elections in germany, they have come in with a strongly russian position. they need it. no, not. the question is who is stronger than the government? i think we all know that officials are very we personality and it is his colleagues in the cabinet from the green, ignorant experience and the long story themselves to be stupid, but they are turner and they are totally anti well i actually ralph, i, i,

i very much agree with gilbert in the position of the green party. however, i would add another layer to that is that washington is never like social democrats . okay at all. okay. they've always been very suspicious where they're getting it. they're going to make a deal with, you know, it goes all back to keep the russians out. the germans died in the americans and the social democrats always challenge it one way or another. go ahead, ralph. yeah, actually i do agree with both of you. i mean, the green party that i knew was paid for a car in canada. 40 years ago, i interviewed her as a young journalists and she was demonstrating and, and ramstein as well as in mood, leveled against the deployment of pershing. yep. rockets and so on. and cruise missiles and so on. so that is a long way the greens have come when the 999 because of what war broke out. and the 1st ever german military direct military participation after

945. this was done by schroeder and fish fish or the green foreign minister at that time, who made that shift and who actually he vowed that he would never have out with happen again saying there were concentration camps run by subs in the territory of the. busy federal republic of yugoslavia and in kosovo and which was not true. it's a bit like with the situation we have now. we booster where they say that were war crimes committed. well that well route you're going exactly way want to go. i want to talk about the information where let me go to george here. that's one thing that we keep hearing charge over the russians have lost the information more. well, i mean, if you're in the west, it's all dissent any, any contrary in view of the situation that's ukraine is shut down. i mean,

then what's the point of having an information more of one side can speak, and that's essentially what has happened. go ahead, george. it's worse than that. it's not just that they close down t and, and band any access to russia. media in the west. western governments are also the asian, isn't the boss of smearing operations. there are any number of organizations and things thanks from the by western government and the e. you, whose sole purpose is to go around writing reports about who to box on the net or criminal this information agent or the russian tools of this information. that's what they do. they are lavishly funded by the european government, the government, and they probably these reports completely worthless, but they serve to great this,

the atmosphere that as soon as the russian boss all over the place, putting out all kinds of this information, trying to all the western public so yeah, i mean, then what happens then is people don't want to listen to that and they just political, exclusively, to the absolute nonsense told by western governance of case in point. yes. so they, they speak on may the 9th delivered by british defense minister ben wallace, in which he not only with like russia to not be germany. he actually went to the mean and disparaged performance of the red army. and we'll go to, but him, you know, the soviet performance was pretty much smaller to read than trop, back and then styling spending millions of people to perish before the german times, all the way the russians like that. they just spent millions of people because they

didn't care about, you know, they just, it's just a matter of humanity. that's what you get. effect winning information war. okay. it just it use. yeah. big lie. it. but it, it shows their weakness. that's why they, they believe in censorship because they don't want to counter argument, you know, gilbert, one of the things that very frustrating for me as our, our on december 17th when the, the russian center ultimatums. because that's what they were one to the on nato. and went to the united states. now, you know, you can go and lease, you could go to the the kremlin website. you could go to task dot com, and you would get all of these documents. i had guessed after guess before 2 of february 24th. but you are not messaging, we don't know what that, what's in boot didn't head on. why did you just go and read to press come brings. why don't you read the press release? it was all out that was all out there on display. george and i have talked about this countless number of times. you're surprised they did. they telegraphed. they

were going to do from the very beginning. nobody listened in with this information warren and shut down a for of dissenting views. we said it's only going to get worse. go ahead gilbert. well, i think we have to put the information, the more information or substitutes for a real or it is a virtual world. and that is the bow in which what most of the united states exists. the united states for last 30 years has been capable real ground war. and so this is taking place. i wouldn't get too excited. but russia, ruling information were considering where we had been since much against the notion that russia would be given a fair hearing of any con, is excluded. however, in the real world, what it will count at the end of the day on the ground. and what russia does or

does not do to achieve its objectives, which one might say right now we're pretty clear it is to take and keep control. and each of ukraine, and to keep the frame from the black sea and to limit the grid that it is not a good read to russia at any time in the future. so the real world, so what's on the ground? we'll see how it works. and they're being given every chance to succeed, because we are just 6 or western supplies to ukraine already. anyway, they are very effective. finally, you know, relevant in the western media coverage of this is just simply appalling. and it's obviously intentional. my position is always been, it's rushes time table and russia will determine the outcome when it's ready when

it wants to do that. but, you know, one of the things that is never really talked about is that why did we get into this situation? the 1st place because of insecurity in europe, that the, the very poor security infrastructure that allowed the to happen and russia will, it will make the, will not offer negotiations. it will say these are our conditions and these will, will be met. it will be another ultimatum. and i think europe is not prepared or even willing to think about that. go ahead, ralph. yeah, you're absolutely right here as well. now, what i have to note is that there's a rewriting of history at the moment. yep. i mean, we see and all our papers here in germany, especially those who are close to the green party. i liked tots, the target sideshow. they are kind of scripting what mrs. burbock is saying, and even what mr. charles is going to say they're putting in this context run to say, starting had already planned to begin

a war valid before hitler rose to power. no, this was yesterday on the headline. so they're comparing putin either was started. busy was hitler, but sometimes they're not clear about mr. shawn's likes to link them to, to hitler, and you know, on george, you and i've got, we've crossed this bridge before. okay. i mean, i remember in the new york review book that was like in what was it like 19919293, something like that. okay. you know, a new, revisionist a, and this is happening again, except for what the differences in some of those were crazy academics. now politicians are in, i'm in, in, in on it to go ahead. george, it is no question of that. and that was in the next 1020 years. the willfully, a historical anti historical germans will convince themselves that they were actually victims. i've been well to that. they were actually the victims of aggression by silent when jackson you went on the german t,

v. i'm pretty much told them that this is what the soviet committed these terrible atrocities against you. when they invaded berlin, he knew his audience again yesterday, a may, the 9th ben wallace and his speech. he started talking about the a race and models that were committed by the red army when he was liberating europe from fascism. so that this and now you know, we would look back on local to who were the good guys with a bad guy at george. what do you bet, a batch, a couple of beers on this one before it's all said and done. it was the, the russians the trick, the japanese into attacking pearl harbor. that's the history. you know, it sounds comical right now, but we're, we're going down that path that we're a very, a historical one when you, when you're a historical,

you're looking for catastrophe. gentlemen. that's all the time we have many thanks to my guess in budapest, munich, and in st. petersburg, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember, cross ah, ah. a, an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. a.

with edison, both, both with a, a, a, a, a, with

a personal number here with a, a, a, [000:00:00;00] a,

[000:00:00;00] a ah, with with gas prices skyrocketing, europe is set to lose even more of its supplies up through ukraine, as kim says, it will cut off one 3rd of the russian exports of that commodity that transit through its territory thoughtless. a p r stunt. that's how moscow describes kids attempt to reclaim stake island in the black sea, in an operation in which a number of elite ukrainian soldiers were killed. mulky of tries to intimidate people into not evacuating to safety