know whether to laugh or cry when it says it's united over the issue of ukraine. it is not, it says it doesn't want to fight russia, but in fact, is a co belligerent on the side of ukraine is determined to deeply damage rushes economy. but in doing so, damage is itself with cross talking the you, i'm joined by my guess, marco gassett in london. he's an international affairs commentator in prague. we have bred blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter for sion law, as well as a r t contributor, any mirror cache we custom roster. martin j, he's an award winning journalist and commentator. all right, gentlemen crossed out girls and the fact that much, i mean you can jump in any time you want. now is appreciate a martin. i start out by saying, i don't know if i should laugh or cry when it comes to the e. u. i think that should be familiar to you because that was a title of an article you wrote a few days ago. why did you write it? go ahead. because we were just saying,

i think of the you and foreign policy. i think a ship in the middle, the ocean without of caps and just going round around this. you know, we're going into uncharted waters here that he was taking huge, huge steps into both very risky policies, which it has no track record doing it for me. most people who watch the show didn't realize that you doesn't actually have a policy. that's what it has. is number of people, committees and buildings which will work together collectively. keep a sense of some sort going and search for them to go ahead with this policy. you know, i'm wondering how much research and how much was i've actually done a contingency plan. so i'm looking at property. that doesn't seem to be very well sorts out. i'm some process myself 11 years. i think i know how do you works? i think can i believe that they think that putting a ban on russian oil wouldn't need some loss for a long it may need to last a few months. they sink and then that's the thinking behind it because i don't see

how germany and italy could last. i'm how you could actually survive about or, or you just import. and also to look at so that you know, the area and check republic and of course hungry them all kicked out a little resistance to some of this. so we don't actually disagree to our economy. so they haven't really thought is true. we need to know is that he's very good looking at single market regulation like the size of your windscreen wipers or health and safety in the office. but it just doesn't do big stuff like this and it's really bitten off more minutes. it can chew. so i, i really have to wonder whether this is the same for just really starting to dark. well, if you, that's a very good point. if i go to marco and london, i mean, let's go back to february 2014, and the, you negotiated a, i, a, a political reform process and ukraine unicode, but stupidly trusted them. and they the document that they all signed the

e u that the documents signatures weren't even dry before they reneged on it. this is this, this is the quality of the people that we're dealing with here. also a mark of viking. you know, we have the german foreign minister burbock, she says, germany is responsible for the defense of ukraine in all of europe. what is she talking about? i mean, does she understand the, the historical implications of that? i mean the, and i, i don't know why anyone in europe would feel that they're responsible for what's going on in ukraine. i would say the leadership of the e. u at the time in 2014 bears a lot of responsibility. go ahead, marco said he does, i mean, it went in there with a little lost the wrong or as it did in the previous duplex, grew crisis in yugoslavia video lat one as well, promising to it's good offices in the service of peace. and in both cases we got wall and conflicts, and i think that you just traditionally punches above its way to these terms. it has no real power. it has a lot of bluster and he listens to itself. it's in its little echo bubbles. but at

the moment it seems determined to drive its own interests in its mercedes and all alleys of big solid cliff over over policy really coming out full the populations all the a you it doesn't you just want to through us, marty? the said, we're not going anywhere good anywhere fast. and i don't see that changing as long as the you in system of buying the american lead on this. because the american legal is obviously, is designed to feed american interests. not the you was. it may be that someone in the you wants its population to see just what happens when you do follow the americans to the cliff. and i look over and maybe hoping that a freezing population of come this winter, my actually abandoned a long entrenched support for the american lead, which has done so much damage to european interests and indeed interests world wide . i think it's high time people did actually look at their own interest. robin hero worship, kind of american advice. very can spin the plans and promises as they seem to be

doing so far. yeah. well, you know, marco, when you, when you, when you think about it, what in fact has all of these sanctions against russia helped to create? let me throw that to brad in prague. i mean, at the end of the day, you know, how is your benefit in any way, sanctioning russia when it has no security interest in ukraine whatsoever. i mean, this is just bewildering to me. go ahead. brad. well, we're already thing here. and through the whole, you block that, that life is just becoming unbearably expensive for the average person. this all has directly to do, not only with the sanctions against russia, but also the prolongation of the war. and ukraine. we have to understand that militarize in ukraine is going to prolong the war. it is going to damage ukraine. it is going to drop that countries to be. it's going to destroy more infrastructure by continuing to artificially prolong it this week. the united states congress to,

we've all established is pretty much running to showing in europe, began negotiating on a $40000000000.00 appropriations bill for ukraine. and that if you do the math and that that amounts to about a $100000000.00 per day, which is if you blow up to the whole year is 6 times the military budget of ukraine . so we're giving them capabilities that they would never be able to have to fight a war. that realistically, we all understand. they can't win in for 12 week in russia. and this is going to blow back. another thing that i think people have to talk about honestly, it's not as, as pressing is the outright militarization ukraine and then the military base of brushes, border, for example, it's been lind decides to join nato. but the potential for blow back, because i think that ukraine is going to become a hot spot for radical because we've already established western countries that, that bar, right, militias are the leading terrorist organizations in these countries. and they're fighting right now and ukraine, and they're going to come back to the united states place like united states,

france, great britain, and start trouble there. so we are really shooting ourselves in the foot by military ukraine, sanctioning russia. and i don't see that there is any contemplation of the future girl. yeah, i'm let me go to martin. i'm really glad. brad brought brought that out. because essentially, in all of these appropriations, a lot of it's going to be stole and it's going to be end up on the black market. and it's going to go into the corrupt, politic pop pockets of oligarchy and ukraine. i mean, this is all well documented. i mean, this is nothing new, everybody knows anything, but anyone that knows anything about ukraine knows this is the case, but they keep doing it anyway. i mean, this is, this is a mindless and it's really dangerous. go ahead martin. yeah, i but yes. so amounts of bill, she kid heading there, now isn't me documented it? so it isn't being audited and i just wonder how long it will take for people to join the dots. you know, when we look at increased taxes, price hikes on utilities and food and gasoline the pumps. i wonder when people are

going to start saying shouldn't we're looking more accurately whether the oldest kid is really getting there being use for the purposes that it was intended for. you know, people are very nice in the west and they're getting more naive than realizing was, owns corruption takes over people. steve needs to skim off the top, you know, all you gotta still need to take that cut. but i think the answer, previous question, yours using a we'll do it and baffled by what the objectives are here. i think the objectives for the you are quite clear. i mean, for a long, long time the european union in particular, the federalist corps of the you and i'm talking about france here, particular as dreamt of being a super, you know, when i was in brussels like i lost count him again as i went to where you know, seeing that you have issues for glosses, wine would start talking about competing, going to come up with america. creating the united states and europe. and this is

the federalist superpower dream. the people like macro have and to be honest, the e. u and my home, i think i looked at ukraine as, as almost a gift or something going on because i wanted very, very long time to justify scrapping the v to rule the you know, i'm a c on voting on big decisions and brussels, which is prevented this russian sanctions, oil plan going through should remember. and they've also wanted the opportunity to present you on the, i think a micron is finally realized that the french to be more relevant for him to be more powerful and run the way he'd like to. well, i'm a real like martin. i think that's a very valid point. but as a crown or anyone else of these, these kind of, um, super staters, have they ever, ever considered maybe asking the people of europe? that's what they want me again, this is this neo liberalism. it is so anti democratic, go ahead, respond to that. no, they launched thousands of people live, but some,

perhaps getting the support of the shows a number of member states to correct the to speed europe, which is what microns been doing, what he's been go to the same last few days. and the president wants to create a new europe now, which runs at a different speed to the conventional $27.00 brock, which would ideally be run by france and would be a member, a group of member states and no new members like ukraine, possibly possibly like talk to you as well, you could sign up as part of a defense. i guess it's a secure security pack this i did not noon sit around metroplex in 89, or you just got the samples about the same thing on your in to 1000 belongs to speed europe. well, this is about giving more power to france to allow the french and macro correct. let me, let me go to america before we go to the breaker. i mean, it's very interesting, get more power, but if, if the entire block is economically diminished, what's it worth? it's a pirate victory. go ahead. america. longevity when it comes to paula, when america calls the you will blink. so lisa, dinner, party conversations,

which are very interesting as a guide as to what people really feel in practice unable to come up that you into what it wishes to be. all that you could buy at the top in to what they wish you to be. so it's unlikely chaise i'm so that it's funny that they seem to require lee annihilation ineffectual russia in order to further their aim, which isn't going to happen anytime soon either. i mean, it is, in essence, the e u is driving, as i said, is so into a cliff, because we have a germany, it is gonna be within a decade, an industrial by water. yeah. these policies go through if oil and gas and energy co, from steel. if all these things are banned and i'm are going to go, we're going to go to a break here. but remember, right before the 2nd world war ended, everything about the morgenthau plant about di dust realizing germany, who knew it back to would come back in 2022 gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the state with arky.

ah, ah, ah, a russian state little, never. i've side on the no san scheme, davis with 55 when he's on any of the final speaking with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine. the state aren't russia today, and c r t spoke neck, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube. a with

a with, with both both the models you need to do. you both got nelson's news with a form already. a lot of a they need a,

with a personal number given that we're to with when i was showing wrong, when i was just a shape out, this becomes the advocate and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we used to look for common ground.

ah, welcome back to cross hawk where all things are considered on peter labelle. remind you were discussing the e you ah! it go back to brad in praga on wednesday of this week. ukraine, stop the, the, the flow of our, some of the, of the russian, or i'm sorry, gas to europe. this means this is gas is already been purchased. it is the out the may, but it is, it has an end destination and we have the perennial problem of, of, of transit here, and the ukrainians. get paid for it by the way, to ok all during this last you know, 10 weeks they're still getting paid for the transit that remarkable for a war, but the ukrainians have decided to turn off the spick it so. brad is the,

is the ukraine running? he or the eas energy policy now. oh, and they been given that as well. well, you know, their perspective, they said that, that it's because of the russian special operation there. but i mean, you know, when i read this, my 1st thought was, yeah, i mean, it wouldn't be logical to assume that, that it would, that it's actually them doing this because their every move that ukraine has done so far has been to drive europe deeper and deeper into the ward. i mean, it kind of makes sense. they're doing this to show it. yeah. okay. here's what happens if you don't intervene because europe, as germany said, oh, was our responsibility to handle the situation. yeah. well, that's really true. wyatt or german soldiers and ukraine. and i think, you know, i'm not saying that that's what i want to happen. of course, i don't want to escalation of anything in ukraine, but it's a critical when all they're doing is sending weapons, literally fighting the war in the last ukrainian mean. and i think if you look at it, and i mean it's, it's actually pretty sense there because that will just the story that country. and

that's why we need to be doing anything to foster a diplomatic feasible solution to what's going on there. which by the way, could have also happened before it broke out to begin with the course. but the, the policy that the superstate are that you guys mentioned are pursuing to, you know, kind of consolidate the european security architecture by, you know, getting finland suite into joining nato. this is absolutely ridiculous. yeah. i mean, this is, this is a policy that is that a goal to human life on this planet and i think that reasonable people. ready really should be standing up in thing that's very loud. well brag, you know, hang out. on december 17th of last year, russia sent 2 notes, one to nato, and one to be united states. and from that point on, i been saying negotiate negotiate, negotiate, and we saw none of it. no good faith at all. coming from the west. ok, you, i recommend our viewers to see it, but they were all taken off of you tube. ok,

go to the rti site, go to my program and you can see it here. ok martin, let me go to you also. i mean again, i mean it's like wagging the dog, wagging the tail. i mean that this is the, that the, what's going on here, i mean, no one in brussels is taking control. they say they're all unify unit, and then the ukrainians can turn off to speak at unilaterally. and the u. e. u doesn't know what to do. you know, it's lost and you know, the point that market was making about these preposterous new coalitions or security deals that britain is making when sending and sweet. and that also undermines hugely on it. it makes you look as though it's almost a sort of peripheral player, like, you know, parents just to the whole plan. very interesting though. just a few days ago you transform minister was talking in terms of the possibly cheating you praying about a next session deal. when you're going at some point, did that follow because of macros, comments,

if you decided to say that it might take a decade for ukraine to join, you know, i think there's tension between ukrainian union on the one side, you know, the european union might know scenario when you crime it signs a piece to russia to soon before that you actually have this objective new object, as i believe, are to use the projects of the war with russia and frame to create this new to speak europe, which michael will run. the french will run, he's preparing shop now for a very, very long game in 2028. he will be the prime candidate to be the new european commission president and brussels at $200.00 on that. i'm pretty sure that's going to happen. so he's preparing the french and the you for the long plan here, you know, but there are dangers that things don't quite get to plan and the plane is, don't go along with this sort of dishes to which the europeans are pushing at the moment. so there's lots of play for a lot of high stakes and we don't really have any certain outlook of which way this can turn. you know, the,

you doesn't really seem to have much control. what's going on at the moment is just banking on the cloud. more money into it and keeping the sanctions going, that it will somehow we compute in and that will put the even a strong negotiated position on behalf of ukraine at some point. but, and that's going to happen. well, i wouldn't bet the farm on there. i it, it, it, let's go back to uh, to marco and london here. i wanna read a cloud quote that up with boris john. so i think he was talking with her. i think there's a sweeter sure finisher of foreign minister relations with putin could not be normalized. so i mean, what, what is the game plan here? i mean that the, you will have no longer any relations at all with rushes. it's what he's trying to say here. ok, because that will play into rush it's calculation and how it will end this conflict in ukraine. it's russia's time table and it's rushes objectives and nothing coming from the west means anything to the kremlin at this point. go ahead, marco,

think the kremlin understands that was the u. s. lang, and the u. k. a won't morrison biden wants is a big, fat, long, exhausting war, which loss for as long as possible and leave the russians are as exhausted as possible and really the ukrainians, as i don't want to say, debt as possible. but really what, what suits the u. s. washington uh, grouping is full russians to look absolutely as bad as possible. and so therefore there's a contradiction actually in the interests of the ukrainians themselves of care. and a washington bo gave doesn't seem to be understanding that certainly ukrainian people should understand that they have no interest in the long wall that the u. s . would lay open when marco, mit hardy, hope i came of a wool. if i could jump in here. okay, well let's do a little bit of math right now. ok, i mean there are, i don't know what percentage of the ukrainian population is already left ukraine and gone to europe. okay. then we can take a look at, there's probably a lot of elderly people, you know, all these european countries have large,

elderly communities, young people don't want to fight this war. so going back to brad's point, so all of this money, all this hardware is going to go to knock, sees as at julian and, and that's going to be the use ally in our partitioned ukraine. wow, talk about values. continue marco, what is true, the neo nazis in the ukraine are relatively small in number, but hugely significant on the streets where they hold the discipline. they keep the population and all that noise have been since they were allowed into power by the you and the u. s and others in 2014. so they're, they're on the streets keeping order that they're in the army, making sure that things are down as they will they be there. the main shell as a murder is a dumbass, as it were for that period of years. and they're also there in politics make you show that for people like lindsay don't actually live out with promises they originally made. and one which basis they were elected, which was of

a peaceful or ukraine, not the one we have now. so they are hugely important. and you, it is true that you can have peace, but i'll be not vacation because that the nazis on the extremist right in ukraine seem to be running too much of the show in cahoots. unfortunately, with people in washington and those in brussels and berlin, who should know better? you know, brad, you know, because you brought it up 1st on the program here. i mean, this is a very unsavory alliance because as things get worse and worse for ukrainian armed forces, the you in the u. s. in the u. k. are going to depend more on these nefarious groups more than ever. well, you know, somebody who's lived roughly in the post communist world for a few years, i can say that that alliance is not as unholy is you might wish it was. i think that there is quite a large market for that for those kind of ideas. certainly when the check or public

riley's, i mean we have like city officials in problem building neo nazi or i'm sorry, nazi collaborator, money money, and then tearing down soviet war hero memorials. essentially rewriting history of the 2nd world war. and i find all of this extremely disturbing and disgusting, and it's like if, if, if this happens in ukraine, that these various courses, the only one that are going to be willing to fight this nato. russia proxy conflict, i think that it will drive radicalization here and you and certainly in the united states because we already know that there are far right groups like the bungalow boys fighting in ukraine right now. in fact, there's a guy from the roughly where i lived was born in ohio who was found there and he made some tick tock, videos saying that they were being forced to fight their they can't leave that. yeah. yeah it's, it's a market, it's really amazing. and these are these groups, it's a magnet per the, these unsavory characters. and western media just doesn't want to cover it. i mean,

but the, it's, if you have any slight interest whatsoever and finding out about these things, you can, it's very easy but the, we have a complete shut down of any kind of conversation about this. it, you know, the lens keys. i do so must mean all of this what, what we're saying doesn't make any sense. well, they're not mutually exclusive. logically speaking, go ahead and we're looking. yeah. little so i don't, i don't and it's only a people going to leave and what we're seeing. i think is this wholesale approach just mr. aging springs from western media of nuclear war war and getting the blessing of brushing people that are since and do you know, using this as a great pretext for journalists to not look at other areas of domestic grades failing? i think biden's doing some of the things that the term to answer one of your points earlier that you might, i think we are looking at human lateral deficits on the credit inside. and that is going to be the new crisis. and will it be filled by more youngsters from some of

these near, near, near policy groups around the region local haven't in syria, you know, people today in britain don't leave me. and i tell them that obama actually funded al qaeda terrorist or something. yes, i see like you like, you know, and it's a fact. we know it happens, you know, and is it so, and look, look at britain, when, during the leading up to the full of death, we allows libya, terrorists, we were living in britain to get on the plane. heathrow airport fly out to live, you know, pick up the machine, go and fight with our cade, and then come back and with nothing more than a week from my 6 offices at the airport, let them come back into the country. is a so far fetched to mention in a few weeks time, or few months time leaders like restaurants and give them the wink jeremiah 6 or 5 . and you can say safe them. you need to find some of these nazi's. now, in these poor countries in these poor communities and not really need to find

hundreds of these, not students who can be trained well and they would say might be well armed as well . who knows? ok, i mean it's a very porous they will be because there's no use a certificate. so lot of these weapon, right? that's going in there. so you don't know where on earth is going to end. nobody has any obligation. we know the word and we must end here, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in prague, london, and america, and thank up to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time, remember cross up ah ah, with doubles are going to put well, talk to let you with the school. i hope that i see

a week with a ford edge that also produces choice. issue somebody over there, both of those with a lot of video when you look on them, you up pulls up ideas with

an idea of where they don't mind. ah, with

ah, republican senate served logs, a $40000000000.00 usa package for ukraine, saying the american economy will be doomed. if washington continues to spend more money than what you have here is a ukranian snipers nest. it has been set up on a roof of one of the military bases, and it has been abandoned. well along with the rest of the base. all corresponded reports from ukrainian military base. as a matter you pull which they abandoned, as russian forces, advanced russian under near soldiers continue to fight the as of theo plan on the alt go to the city and latvia, paved the way to demolish a soviet spare a memorial, unload just.