he, you, one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry when it says it's united over the issue of ukraine. it is not, it says it doesn't want to fight russia, but in fact, is a coat belligerent on the side of ukraine is determined to deeply damage rush his economy. but in doing so, damages itself with cross talking the you, i'm joined by my guess, marco gas in london. he's an international affairs commentator in prague. we have brad blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter for sion law, as well as a rti contributor and a mirror cash we custom roster. martin j. he's an award winning journalist, an commentator. all right, gentlemen, crossed out girls and affect that much. i mean, you can jump in any time you want. now it's appreciate a martin. i start out by saying, i don't know if i should laugh or cry when it comes to the e. u. i think that should be familiar to you because that was a title of an article you wrote a few days ago. why did you write it? go ahead. because we were just saying,

i think of the you and foreign policy. i think a ship in the middle, the ocean without of caps and just going round around those. you know, we're going into uncharted waters here that he was taking huge, huge steps into both very risky policies, which it has no track record doing it for me. most people who watch the show didn't realize that you doesn't actually have a policy. that's what it has. is number of people and committees and buildings which all together collectively, keep a sense of some sort going and search for them to go ahead with this policy. you know, i'm wondering how much research and how much was i got. she's on a contingency plan. so i'm looking at property. that doesn't seem to be very well sorts out. i'm some process myself 11 years. i think i know how to you works. i think can i believe that they think that putting a ban on russian oil wouldn't need some loss for a long it may need loss a few months. they sink and then that's the thinking behind it because i don't see

how germany and italy could last. i'm how you could actually survive about on the gas imports and also to look at so that you know, the area and check republic and of course hungry them all kicked out a little resistance to some of this. so we don't actually disagree to our economy. so they haven't really thought is true. we need to know is that he's very good looking at single market regulation like the size of your windscreen wipers or health and safety in the office. but it just doesn't do big stuff like this, and it's really bitten off more minutes. it can chew. so i, i really have to wonder whether this is the same for just really starting to dark. well, if you, that's a very good point. if i go to marco and london, i mean, let's go back to february 2014, and the, you negotiated a, i, a, a, a political reform process and ukraine unit. cobit stupidly trusted them, and they, the document that they all signed the

e u that the documents signatures weren't even dry before they reneged on it. this is this, this is the quality of the people that we're dealing with here. also a mark of hiking, you know, we have the german foreign minister burbock. she says, germany is responsible for the defense of ukraine in all of europe. what is she talking about? i mean, dish, i understand the, the historical implications of that. i mean the, and i, i don't know why anyone in europe would feel that they're responsible for what's going on in ukraine. i would say the leadership of the e. u at the time in 2014, there's a lot of responsibility. go ahead, marco is sunny. does i mean it went in there with a lot of lost the rather as it did in the previous duplex, grew crisis in yugoslavia video lat one as well. promising to it's good offices in the service of peace. and in both cases we got wall and conflicts, and i think the, you just traditionally punch is above its way to these terms. it has no real power . it has a lot of bluster and he listens to itself. it's in its little echoed bubbles. but

at the moment it seems determined to drive its own interests in its mercedes in all alleys of big solid cliff over over policy really coming out full the populations, all the e u. it doesn't. you just want to through us. martin said, we're not going anywhere good anywhere fast. and i don't see that changing as long as the e u. a in system of buying the american lead on this because the american legal is obviously is designed to feed american interests. not the you was. it may be that someone in the u wants its population to see just what happens when you do follow the americans to the cliff. and i look over and maybe hoping that a freezing population of come this winter, my actually abandoned a long entrenched support for the american lead, which has done so much damage to european interests and indeed interests world wide . i think it's high time people did actually look at their own interest. robin hero worship, kind of american advice. very can spin the plans and promises as they seem to be

doing so far. yeah. well, you know, marco, when you, when you, when you think about it, what in fact has all of these sanctions against russia help to create, let me throw that to brad in prague. i mean, at the end of the day, you know, how is your benefit in any way, sanctioning russia when it has no security interest in ukraine whatsoever. i mean, this is just bewildering to me. go ahead. brad. well, we're already thing here. and through the whole, you block that bed life is just becoming unbearably expensive. the average person, this all has directly to do, not only with the sanctions against russia, but also the prolongation of the war in ukraine. we have to understand that militarized and ukraine is going to prolong the war. it is going to damage ukraine . it is going to drop that countries to be. it's going to destroy more infrastructure by continuing to artificially prolong it this week. the united

states congress who we've all established is pretty much running to showing in europe, began negotiating on a $40000000000.00 appropriations bill for ukraine. and that if you do the math and that that amounts to about a $100000000.00 per day, which is if you blow up to the whole year is 6 times the military budget of ukraine . so we're giving them capabilities that they would never be able to have to fight a war. that realistically, we all understand. they can't win in for 12 week in russia. and this is going to blow back. another thing that i think people have to talk about honestly it's not as is pressing is the outright militarization ukraine. and then the military base of brushes, border, for example, it's been decided to join nato, but the potential for blow back, because i think that ukraine is going to become a hot spot for radical because we've already established western countries that, that bar right malicious, are the leading terrorist organizations in these countries, and they're fighting right now and ukraine, and they're going to come back to the united states place like united states,

france, great britain, and start trouble there. so we are really shooting ourselves in the foot by military at the ukraine sanctioning russia. and i don't see that there is any contemplation of the future girl. yeah, i'm let me go to martin. i'm really glad. brad brought brought that out because essentially in all of these appropriations, a lot of it's going to be stolen. it's going to be end up on the black market. and it's going to go into the corrupt, politic pop pockets of oligarchy and ukraine. i mean, this is all well documented. i mean, this is nothing new. everybody knows anything, but anyone knows anything about ukraine knows this is the case, but they keep doing it anyway. i mean, this is, this is a mindless and it's really dangerous. go ahead martin. yeah, i think but yet, so amount of bill she kit heading there. now, isn't me documented it so it isn't being audited and i just wonder how long it will take for people to join the dots. you know, when we look at increase taxes,

price hikes on utilities and food and gasoline. um, so i wonder when people are going to start saying shouldn't we are looking more accurately whether the or this kid is really getting the being use for the purposes that it was intended for? you know, people are very nice in the west and they're getting more naive than realizing was zones. corruption takes over people, steam needs to skim off the top, you know, all you gotta still need to take the cut. but i think the answer, previous question, yours, you use in the wilderness, baffled by what the objectives are here. i think the objectives for the you are quite clear. i mean, for a long, long time the european union in particular, the federalist corps of the you and i'm talking about france here, particular as dreamt of being a supervisor. you know, when i was in brussels i, i lost count him and didn't part. as i went to where, you know, senior year issues, waterford glasses, wine would start talking about competing, you've got to come up with america creating the united states and europe. and this

is the federalist superpower dream. the people like macro have and to be honest, the e u and my home, i think i looked at ukraine as, as almost a gift or something given. because i wanted very, very long time to justify scrapping the veto role, the, you know, i'm a c on voting on pick decisions and brussels, which is prevented this russian sanction soil planned going through should remember . and i also wanted the opportunity to present you on the, i think a micron is finally realized that the french to be more relevant for him to be more powerful and run the way he'd like to. well, i'm israel, i think martin, i think that's a very valid point. but as a crown or anyone else of these, these kind of, um, super staters have they ever, ever considered maybe asking the people of europe? that's what they want. i mean, again, this is this neo liberalism, it is so anti democratic, go ahead, respond to that. no, the lines, thousands of people live, but some, perhaps getting the support of the shows

a number of member states to correct the to speed europe, which is what microns been doing, what he's been go to the same last few days in the press and he wants to create a new europe now, which runs at a different speed to the conventional 27 brock which would ideally be run by france and would be a member, a group of member states and non you members like ukraine, possibly possibly like turkey as well. you could sign up as part of the defense part of the secure security pack. this i did not noon sit around me to unplug it and 89, or you just got the same thing on your in 2000 belongs to speed europe. well, this is about getting more power to france to allow the french and macro correct. let me, let me go to america before we go to the breaker. i mean, it's very interesting, get more power, but if, if the entire block is economically diminished, what's it worth? it's a pirate victory. go ahead. america. love somebody. when it comes to power, when america cools the, you will blink. so lisa, dinner, party conversations,

which are very interesting as a guide as to what people really feel are in practice unable to convert that you into what it wishes to be all that e cabal at the top in to what they wish that you to be. so it's unlike that chaise . i'm so that it's funny that they seem to require lee annihilation ineffectual russia in order to further their aim. which isn't going to happen any time soon either. i mean, it is in essence that you is driving, as i said, it's so into a cliff because we have a germany is going to be within a decade, an industrial back water. yeah. these policies go through if oil and gas and energy co put steel, if all the things up and, and what am i going to go to? we're going to go to for a break here. but remember, right before the 2nd world war ended, everything about the morgenthau plan, about di duster lies in germany, who knew it back? it would come back in 2022 gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after much our break, we'll continue our discussion on the each state with our team

ah ah ah, need to come to the russian state total narrative as tight as i phone and the nurse i'm seeing with 55 with okay, so mine is 25, i'm speaking with ben in the european union, the kremlin, yup, machine, the state on russia for date and r t spoke now, given our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and

with, ah, a doubles are going to put forward talking with the school. i hope that i see a gift with a

ford edge that also choice issue somebody over there, both of those with a video, please look out to me you up for you, but use positives. ivonya a is raising either way. i don't like ah

ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle. remind you were discussing the e you. ah, it's go back to brad in praga on wednesday of this week. ukraine. stop the, the, the flow of some of the, of the russian, or i'm sorry, gas to europe. this means this is gas is already been purchased. it is the of the maybe, but it is, it has an end destination and we have the perennial problem of, of transit here and the ukrainians. get paid for it by the way,

to okay. all during this last you know, 10 weeks if they're getting paid for the transit remarkable for a war, but the ukrainians have decided to turn off the spigot. so brad is the, is the ukraine running he or the eas energy policy? now i've been given that as well well, you know, their perspective, they said that, that it's because of the russian special operation there. but i mean, you know, when i read this, my 1st thought was, yeah, i mean, it wouldn't be logical to assume that, that it would, that it's actually them doing this because their every move that ukraine has done so far has been to dr. europe, deeper and deeper into the ward. i mean, it kinda makes sense. they're doing this to show. yeah. okay. here's what happens if you don't intervene because europe, as germany said, oh, what our responsibility to handle the situation. yeah. well, that's really true. wyatt or german soldiers and ukraine. and i think, you know, i'm not saying that that's what i want to happen. and i don't want to escalation of

anything in ukraine, but it is critical when all they're doing is sending weapons, literally fighting the war to the last ukrainian. i mean, and i think if you look at it, and i mean it's, it's actually pretty sense there because that will just the story that country. and that's why we need to be, you know, doing anything to foster a diplomatic feasible solution to what's going on there. which, by the way, it could have also happened before it broke out to begin with the course. but the, the policy that the superstate that you guys mentioned are pursuing to, you know, kind of consolidate the european security architecture by, you know, getting finland suite into joining nato. this is absolutely ridiculous. yeah. i mean, this is, this is a policy that is that a goal to human life on this planet? and i think that reasonable people really should be standing up and thing that's very loud. well, brad, you know, so on hang on. but on, on december 17th of last year, russia sent 2 notes, one to nato,

and went to the united states. and from that point on, i've been saying negotiate negotiate, negotiate, and we saw none of it, no good faith at all, coming from the west. ok. you, i recommend our viewers to see it, but they were all taken off of you tube. okay. go to the rti site, go to my program and you can see it here. ok martin, let me go to you also. i mean, again, i mean it's like wagging the dog, wagging the tail. i mean that this is the, that the, what's going on here. i mean, no one in brussels is taking control. they say they're all unify unit and then the ukrainians can turn off to speak. it unilaterally and the u. e. u doesn't know what to do. you know, it's lost and then the point that market was making about these preposterous new coalitions or security deals that britain is making with send them and sweden that also undermines hugely on it. it makes you look as though it's almost a sort of peripheral player. if you like, you know, parents just to the whole plan. very interesting though. just

a few days ago you transform minister was talking in terms of the possibly cheating you praying about a next session deal. when you're going at some point. did that follow because of macro comments a few days, or to say that it might take a decade for ukraine to join? you know, i think there's tension between ukraine on union, on the one side, you know, the european union might know scenario where you crime it signs a piece to russia to soon before that you actually have this objective new object as i believe, are to use the projects of the war with russia in frame to create this new to speed europe, which michael run, the french will run. he's preparing shop now for a very, very long game in 2028. he will be the prime candidate to be the new european commission president and brussels at $200.00 on that. i'm pretty sure that's going to happen. so he's preparing the french and the you for the long plan here. you know, but there are dangers that things don't quite go to plan and the plane is, don't go along with this surreptitious to which the europeans are pushing at the

moment. so there's a lot to play for a lot of high stakes and we don't really have any certain outlook of which way this can turn. you know, the, you doesn't really seem to have much control. what's going on at the moment is just banking on the cloud. more money into it and keeping the sanctions going, that it will somehow we can putin and that will put the even a strong negotiated position on behalf of ukraine at some point. but, and that's going to happen. well, i wouldn't bet the farm on there. i it, it, it, let's go back to marco and london here. i want to read a cloud, quote that web with boris john. so i think he was talking with her. i think that's a sweeter sure finisher of foreign minister relations with putin could not be normalized. so i mean what, what is the game plan here? i mean that the e will have no longer any relations at all with rushes. it's what he's trying to say here. ok,

because that will play into rushes calculation and how it will end this conflict in ukraine. it's russia's time table and it's rushes objectives and nothing coming from the west means anything to the kremlin. at this point. go ahead, marco the, the kremlin understands that was the u. s. lang, and the u. k. a warnesha, boris and biden wants, is a big, fat, long, exhausting war which loss for as long as possible and leave the russians are as exhausted as possible. and really the ukrainians, as i don't want to say, debt as possible, but really what, what suits the u. s. washington. uh, grouping is full russians to look absolutely as bad as possible. and so therefore there's a contradiction actually in the interests of the ukrainians themselves. of care and a washington but give doesn't seem to be understanding that certainly the ukrainian people should understand that they have no interest in the long wall that the u. s . would lay out happen by market mccarty. hope i can move

a wall if i could jump in here. okay, well, let's do a little bit of math right now. ok, i mean, there are, i don't know what percentage of the ukrainian population is already left ukraine and gone to europe. okay. then we can take a look at, there's probably a lot of elderly people, you know, all these european countries have large, elderly communities, young people don't want to fight this. we're so going back to brad's point, so all of this money, all this hardware is going to go to not cease as that julian and, and that's going to be the use ally in our partitioned ukraine. wow, talk about bow use. continue marco. when it's true, the neo nazis in the ukraine are relatively small in number, but hugely significant on the streets where they hold the discipline. they keep the population and all that noise have done, since they were allowed into power by the you and the u. s. and others in 2014. so they're, they're on the streets keeping order that they're in the army, making sure that things are done as they won't, they be there. the main shell as

a murderer is a dumbass, as it were for that period of years. and they're also there in politics, making sure that the people like lindsay don't actually live out with promises they originally made. and one which basis they were elected, which was of a peaceful ukraine, not the one we have now. so they are hugely born. and you, it is true that you can have peace without the knots vacation because the, the nazis on the extremist right in ukraine seemed to be running too much of the show in cahoots. unfortunately with people in washington and those in brussels in berlin. who should know better? you know, brad, they know because you brought it up 1st on the program here. i mean, this is a very unsavory alliance because as things get worse and worse for ukrainian armed forces, the you in the u. s. in the u. k. are going to depend more on these nefarious groups more than ever well, you know, somebody who's lived roughly in the post communist world for a few years, i can say that that alliance is not as unholy is you might wish it was.

i think that there is quite a large market for that for those kind of ideas. certainly when the check are public right live, i mean we have like city officials in problem building neo nazi or i'm sorry, nazi collaborator, money money, and then tearing down soviet war hero memorials. essentially rewriting the history of the 2nd world war. and i find all of that extremely disturbing and disgusting. and it's like if, if, if this happens in ukraine, that these various courses, the only one that are going to be willing to fight this nato. russia proxy conflict, i think that it will drive radicalization year and you and certainly in the united states because we already know that there are far right groups like the bug, a little boys fighting in ukraine right now. in fact, there's a guy from the roughly where i lived was born in ohio who was found there and he made some tick tock, videos saying that they were being forced to fight their they can't leave that.

yeah. yeah it's, it's a martin, it's really amazing. and these are these groups, it's a magnet for the, these unsavory characters and western media discuss it, want to cover it, i mean, but the, it's, if you have any slight interest whatsoever and finding out about these things, you can, it's very easy but the, we have a complete shut down of any kind of conversation about this. you know, the lens keys. i do so must mean all of this what, what we're saying doesn't make any sense. well, they're not mutually exclusive. logically speaking, go ahead and listening little so i don't either its, as i said earlier, people are going to leave. and what we're seeing, i think, is this wholesale approach. just a mr. aging springs from western media of nuclear war war and getting the blessing of brushing people. and do you know, using this as a great pretext for journals to not look at other areas of domestic res failing? i think brian is doing some of the things that you know,

but some to answer one of your points earlier that you might, i think we are looking at a human collateral deficit on the credit inside. and that is going to be the new crisis and will it be filled by more youngsters from some of these near, near, near policy groups around the region local haven't in syria, you know, people today in britain don't leave me. and i tell them that obama actually funded al qaeda terrorist or something. yes, i see like you like, you know, and it's a fact. we know it happens, you know. and is it so and look, look at britain did, when, during the leading up to the full of death, we allows libya, terrorists, we were living in britain to get on the plane. heathrow airport fly out to live, you know, pick up the machine, go and fight with al qaeda and then come back and with nothing more than a week from my 6 offices, the let them come back into the country is

a so far fetched to mention in a few weeks time or few months time leaders like restaurants and give them the wink jeremiah 6 or 5. and you can say safe them. you need to find some of these nazi's. now, in these poor countries in these poor communities and not living there, you need to find hundreds of these not students who can be try well and they would say might be well armed as well. who knows? ok, i mean it's a very porous they will be because there's no use a certificate. so a lot of these weaponry that's going in there, so you don't know where enough it's going to end and nobody has any obligation. we're on the word and we must end here. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in prague, london, and america. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here, are the see you next time. remember cross ah, for

a, with edison both, both the models you need to deal with for a form of a, a with

her phone number here that we're talking with when i was a shape out becomes the advocate and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. a

year ago has expressed serious doubts about k of the membership aspirations, the russian foreign minister slums, the blocks are becoming naked express. all right. what you have here is a ukrainian snipers nest. it has been set up on a roof of one of the military bases, and it has been abandoned. well, along with the rest of the base correspond the reports from ukrainian military bases in mario po, which they abandoned this, russian forces advanced as russian. i'm doing it. so just continue to find the adult feel plan on the outskirts of with they were able, they've been named the best performing currency of the year by bloom. but that's just fine to russia facing unprecedented economic sanctions.