united over the issue of ukraine, it is not, it says it doesn't want to fight russia, but in fact, is a co belligerent on the side of ukraine is determined to deeply damage rush his economy. but in doing so, damage is itself ah, cross stocking the e u, i'm joined by my guess, marco gas in london. he's an international affairs commentator in prague. we have brad blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter for sion law. as well as a rti contributor and a mirror cash we custom roster. martin j. he's an award winning journalist, an commentator. i gentleman cross stock rules and the fact that most a means you can jump in any time you want. now is appreciate a martin. i start out by saying, i don't know if i should laugh or cry when it comes to the e. u. i think that should be familiar to you because i was a title of an article you wrote a few days ago. why did you write it? go ahead because we were just saying, i think of the you and foreign policy. i think

a ship in the middle of the ocean without of caps and just going round around us. you know, we're going into uncharted waters here that he was taking huge, huge steps into both very risky policies, which it has no track record doing it. probably most people who watch the show don't realize that you doesn't actually have a song policy. what it has is number of people and committees and buildings, which will together collectively keep a sense of some sort going. and so for them to go ahead with this policy, you know, i'm wondering how much research and how much was i got. she's on a contingency plan, so i'm looking at property. that doesn't seem to be very well. so child, i'm some process myself 11 years. i think i know how it works. i think can i believe that they think that putting it back on russian oil wouldn't need some loss for a long. it may need loss a few months. they sink and then that's the thinking behind it because i don't see how jim initially could last. i'm how he could actually survive about or,

or you just import. and also to look at that, you know, the area and check republic and of course hungry them all kicked out a little resistance to some of us. so we don't actually disagree to our economy and so they haven't really thought is true. we need to know is that he's very good looking at single market regulation like the size of your windscreen wipers or health and safety in the office. but it just doesn't do big stuff like this, and it's really bitten off more minutes. it can chew. so i, i really have to wonder whether this is the same for just really starting to dark. well, if you, that's a very good point. if i go to marco and london, i mean, let's go back to february 2014, and the, you negotiated a, i, a, a, a political reform process and ukraine unit. cobit stupidly trusted them, and they the document that they all signed the e u that the documents signatures weren't even dry before they reneged on it. this

is this, this is the quality of the people that we're dealing with here. also a mark of viking, you know, we have the german foreign minister burbock. she says germany is responsible for the defense of ukraine in all of europe. what is she talking about? i mean, does she understand the, the historical implications of that? i mean the, and i, i don't know why anyone in europe would feel that they're responsible for what's going on in ukraine. i would say the leadership of the e. u at the time in 2014, there's a lot of responsibility. go ahead, marco said he does, i mean, it went in there with a lot of lost the rather as it did in the previous duplex, grew crisis in yugoslavia, beating lac one as well, promising to it's good offices in the service of peace. and in both cases we got wall and conflicts, and i think the, you just traditionally punch is above its way to these terms. it has no real power . it has a lot of bluster and he listens to itself. it's in its little echo bubbles. but at the moment it seems determined to drive its own interests in its mercedes,

in all our meetings of big solid cliff over over policy really coming out for the populations of the e u. it doesn't. you just walk through us. martin said, we're not going anywhere good anywhere fast. and i don't see that changing as long as that you insist on obeying the american lead on this. because the american legal is obviously is designed to feed american interests. not the you was. it may be that someone in the you wants its population to see just what happens when you do follow the americans to the cliff. and i look over and maybe hoping that a freezing population of come this winter, my actually abandoned a long entrenched support for the american lead, which has done so much damage to european interests and indeed interests worldwide . i think it's high time people did actually look at their own interest. robin hero worship, kind of american advice, american spin the plans and promises as they seem to be doing so far. yeah. well,

you know, marco, when you, when you, when you think about it, what in fact has all of these sanctions against russia help to create, let me throw that to brad in prague. i mean, at the end of the day, you know, how is your benefit in any way, sanctioning russia when it has no security interest in ukraine whatsoever. i mean, this is just bewildering to me. go ahead, brad. well, we're already thing here and do the whole you block that life is just becoming unbearably expensive or the average person this all has directly to do, not only with the sanctions against russia, but also the prolongation of the war and ukraine. we have to understand that militarize in ukraine is going to prolong the war. it is going to damage ukraine. it is going to drop that countries to be. it's going to destroy more infrastructure by continuing to artificially prolong it this week. the united states congress who we've all established is pretty much running to showing in europe,

began negotiating on a $40000000000.00 appropriations bill for ukraine. and that if you do the math and that that amounts to about a $100000000.00 per day, which is if you blow up to the whole year is 6 times the military budget of ukraine . so we're giving them capabilities that they would never be able to have to fight a war. that realistically, we all understand, they can't win in for what to weaken russia. and this is going to blow back. another thing that i think people have to talk about honestly it's not as is pressing is the outright militarization ukraine. and then the military base of brushes, border, for example, it's been lyn decides to join nato, but the potential for blow back because i think that ukraine is going to become a hot spot for radical. it's because we've already established western countries that, that bar, right, militias are the leading terrorist organizations in these countries. and they're fighting right now and ukraine, and they're going to come back to the united states place. but united states, france, great britain,

and start trouble there. so we are really shooting ourselves in the foot by military ukraine sanctioning russia. and i don't see that there is any contemplation of the future here at all. yeah, i'm let me go to martin. i'm really glad. brad brought brought that out because essentially, all of these appropriations, a lot of it's going to be stole and it's going to be end up on the black market. and it's going to go into the corrupt, politic pop pockets of oligarchy and ukraine. i mean, this is all well documented. i mean, this is nothing new. everybody knows anything, but anyone that knows anything about ukraine knows this is the case, but they keep doing it anyway. i mean, this is, this is a mindless and it's really dangerous. go ahead, martin. yeah, i don't, but yet, so amount of bill, she kid heading there now isn't being documented it. so it isn't being audited. and i just wonder how long it will take for people to join the dots. you know, when we look at increased taxes, price hikes on utilities and food and gasoline. the i'm so i wonder when people are

going to start saying shouldn't we're looking more accurately whether the oldest kid is really getting the being use for the purposes that it was intended for, you know, people are very nice in the west and they're getting more naive than realizing was zones, corruption takes over people, steam needs to skim off the top, you know, all you gotta still need to take that cut. but i think the answer, previous question, yours, you using them, but we'll do it and baffled by what the objectives are here. i think the objectives for the you are quite clear. i mean, for a long, long time the european union in particular, the federalist corps of the you and i'm talking about france here, particular as dreamt of being a supervisor. you know, when i was in brussels i, i lost count him and didn't part is i went to where, you know, seeing that you have issues for glosses. ryan would start talking about competing, got to come up with america, creating the united states and europe. and this is the federalist superpower dream . the people like macro have and to be honest, the e. u and my home, i think,

and looked at ukraine as, as almost a gift or something called given. because i wanted a very, very long time to justify scrapping the veto room, the unit and see on voting on pick decisions and brussels, which is prevented this russian sanction soil planned going through should remember . and i also wanted the opportunity to present you on the i think a micron is finally realized that so for the french to be more relevant for him to be more powerful and run the way he'd like to. well, i'm israel, i think martin, i think that's a very valid point. but as a crown or anyone else of these, these kind of, um, super staters have they ever, ever considered maybe asking the people of europe? that's what they want. i mean, again, this is this neo liberalism, it is so anti democratic, go ahead, respond to that. no, they launched thousands of people live, but some, perhaps getting the support of the shows a number of member states to correct the to speed europe,

which is what my call has been doing. what he's been quoted as saying the last few days and the president wants to create a new europe now, which runs at a different speed to the conventional $27.00 brock, which would ideally be run by france and would be a member, a group of member states and non you members like ukraine, possibly possibly like chucky as well. we could sign up as part of the defense package. this is q security pack this i did not noon sit around me on floods in 89, or you just got the samples about the same thing on your in 2000 belongs to speak to europe. well, this is about giving more power to france to allow the french and macro correct. well, let me, let me go to america before we go to the breaker. i mean, it's very interesting, get more power, but if, if the entire block is economically diminished, what's it worth? it is a pirate victory. go ahead. america. love somebody. when it comes to paula, when america calls the you will blink. so lisa, dinner, party conversations,

which are very interesting as a died as to what people really feel are in practice unable to convert that a you into what it wishes to be. all that e cabal at the top in to what they wish, the e u. b. so it's unlike that chaise. i'm so that it's funny that may seem to require a li annihilation ineffectual russia in order to further their aim, which isn't going to happen any time soon either. i mean, it is in essence that a you a is driving, as i said, it's so into a cliff because we have a germany, it is gonna be within a decade, an industrial backwater. yeah. these policies go through if oil and gas had energy co put steel, if all the things abandoned or em marvelle margot, we're going to go, we're going to go to break here. but remember, i'll write before the 2nd world war ended. everything about the morgenthau plan about di duster lies in germany, who knew it back to would come back in 2022 gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that your break, we'll continue our discussion on the each state with rp

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oh let's say is a booting farm for both francis just like his predecessor is a fun of the moon to color transition and they they have to wait for a normalization on the only see russia relations. why did it so? because they acknowledge the fact that the west can not to be or increased your my eyes again, the west is lost to the west and throughout the post christian era. ah

ah, welcome back to cross stock were all things are considered on peter labelle remind you were discussing the e you? ah, it's go back to brad in praga on wednesday of this week. ukraine. stop the, the, the flow of our, some of the, of the russian, or i'm sorry, gas to europe. this means this is gas is already been purchased. it is the of the maybe, but it is, it has an end destination and we have the perennial problem of, of, of transit here and the ukrainians. get paid for it by the way, to ok all during this last you know, 10 weeks they're still getting paid for the transit remarkable for a war, but the ukrainians have decided to turn off the spick it so. brad is the, is the ukraine running the or the eas energy policy? now, i've been given that as well. well, you know, their perspective,

they said that, that it's because of the russian special operation there. but i mean, you know, when i read this, my 1st thought was, yeah, i mean, it wouldn't be logical to assume that, that it would, that it's actually them doing this because their every move that ukraine has done so far has been to dr. europe, deeper and deeper into the war. i mean, it kind of makes sense. they're doing this to show it. yeah. okay. here's what happens if you don't intervene because europe, as germany said, oh, what our responsibility to handle the situation. yeah. well, that's really true. wyatt or german soldiers and ukraine. and i think, you know, i'm not saying that that's what i want to happen. of course, i don't want to escalation of anything in ukraine, but it should be critical when all they're doing is sending weapons, literally fighting the war at the last ukrainian. i mean, and i think if you look at it, and i mean it's, it's actually pretty stance there because that will just the story that country. and that's why we need to be, you know, doing anything to foster

a diplomatic feasible solution to what's going on there. which, by the way, it could have also happened before it broke out to begin with the course. but the policy that the superstate or that you guys mentioned are pursuing to you know, kind of consolidate the european security architecture by, you know, getting finland suite into joining nato. this is absolutely ridiculous. yeah. i mean, this is, this is a policy that is and you get a goal, the human life on this planet. and i think that reasonable people. ready should be standing up in thing that's very well, brad, you know, want to hang out on december 17th of last year, russia sent 2 notes, one to nato and went to the united states. and from that point on, i've been saying negotiate negotiate, negotiate, and we saw none of it, no good faith at all. coming from the west. ok, you, i recommend our viewers to see it, but they were all taken off of you tube. ok, go to the r t side, go to my program and you can see it here. ok martin,

let me go to you also. i mean again, i mean it's like wagging the dog, wagging the tail. i mean that this is the, that the, what's going on here, i mean, no one in brussels is taking control. they say they're all unify unit, and then the ukrainians can turn off to speak. it unilaterally and the u. e. u doesn't know what to do. you know, it's lost and then the point that market was making about these preposterous new coalitions or security deals that britain is making when sending and sweden that also undermines usually, you know, it makes you look as though it's almost a sort of peripheral player. if you like, you know, parents just to the whole plan. very interesting though. just a few days ago, you, french foreign minister was talking in terms of the, you possibly teaching you praying about a next session deal. when you're going at some point. did that follow? because of macros comments a few days or to say that it might take a decade for ukraine to join. you know,

i think there's tension between ukraine on union, on the one side, you know, the european union might know scenario you crime it signs a piece to russia to soon before that you actually have this objective new object is i believe, to use the projects of the war with russian frame to create this new to speak europe, which michael will run, the french will run. he's preparing shop now for a very, very long game. 2028. he will be the prime candidate to be the new european commission president and brussels. i put 100 bucks on that. i'm pretty sure that's going to happen. so he's preparing the french and the you for the long plan here. you know, but there are dangers that things don't quite go to plan and the plane is, don't go along with this surreptitious to which the europeans are pushing at the moment. so there's a lot to play for a lot of high stakes and we don't really have any certain outlook of which way this can turn. you know, the, you doesn't really seem to have much control. what's going on at the moment is just

banking on the cloud. more money into it and keeping the sanctions going, that it will somehow we compute and, and that will put the even a strong negotiated position on behalf of ukraine at some point. but, and that's going to happen. well, i wouldn't bet the farm on there. i it, it, let's go back to marco and london here. i want to read a cloud quote that web with boris john. so i think he was talking with her. i think that's a sweeter sure finish. a foreign minister relations with putin could not be normalized . so, i mean what, what is the game plan here? i mean that the, you will have no longer any relations at all with rushes. it's what he's trying to say here. ok, because that will play into rushes calculation and how it will end this conflict in ukraine. it's russia's time table and it's rushes objectives and nothing coming from the west means anything to the kremlin at this point. go ahead, marco, think the kremlin understands that was the u. s. lang, and the u. k. a wants

a boris and bite and wants is a big, fat, long, exhausting war, which loss for as long as possible and leaves the russians are as exhausted as possible. and really the ukrainians, as i don't want to say dead as possible, but really what, what suits the u. s. washington. uh, grouping is full russians to look absolutely as bad as possible. and so therefore there's a contradiction actually in the interests of the ukrainians themselves. of care and a washington but give doesn't seem to be understanding that certainly the ukrainian people should understand that they have no interest in the long wall that the u. s . would lay open by market mccarty. my grandmother was if i could jump in here. okay, let's, let's do a little bit of math right now. ok, i mean, there are, i don't know what percentage of the ukrainian population is already left ukraine and gone to europe. okay. then we can take a look at, there's probably a lot of elderly people, you know, all these european countries have large, elderly communities,

young people don't want to fight this were so going back to brad's point, so all of this money, all this hardware is going to go to not cease as that julian and, and that's going to be the use ally in a partitioned ukraine. wow. talk about bow use, continue, marco. what is true, the neo nazis in the ukraine are relatively small in number, but hugely significant on the streets where they hold the discipline, the keep the population and all that noise have been since they were allowed in to power by the you and the u. s. and others in 2014. so they're, they're on the streets keeping older. they're, they're in the army making sure that things are down as they won't they be there the main shell as a murderers of dumbass as it were for that period of years. and they're also there in politics make you show that for people like lindsay don't actually live opposite promises they originally made. and on which basis they were elected, which was of a peaceful ukraine, not the one we have now. so they are hugely born and you,

it is true that you can have peace, but i'll be not vacation because that the nazis and the extremist right in ukraine seem to be running too much of the show in cahoots. unfortunately, with people in washington and those in brussels and berlin, who should know better? you know, brad, you know, because you brought it up 1st on the program here. i mean, this is a very unsavory alliance because as things get worse and worse for in the ukrainian armed forces, the you in the u. s. and the u. k. are going to depend more on these nefarious groups more than ever. well, you know, somebody who's lived roughly in the post communist world for a few years, i can say that that alliance is not as unholy is you might wish it was. i think that there is quite a large market for that for those kind of ideas. certainly when the check are public right live, i mean we have like city officials in problem building neo nazi or i'm sorry,

nazi collaborator, money money, and then tearing down soviet war hero memorials. essentially rewriting the history of the 2nd world war. and i find all of that extremely disturbing and disgusting. and it's like if, if, if this happens in ukraine that these various forces, the only one that are going to be willing to fight this nato. russia proxy conflict, i think that it will drive radicalization year in the year and certainly in the united states because we already know that there are far right groups like the bug, a little boys fighting in ukraine right now and back. there is a guy from the roughly where i lived, where i was born in ohio, who was found there and he made some tick tock, videos saying that they were being forced to fight their they can't leave that. yeah. yeah it's, it's a market, it's really amazing. and these are these groups, it's a magnet for the, these unsavory characters and western media just doesn't want to cover it. i mean, but the, it's, if you have any slight interest whatsoever and finding out about these things,

you can, it's very easy but the, we have a complete shut down of any kind of conversation about this. you know, the lens keys. i do. so i must mean all of this what, what we're saying doesn't make any sense. well, they're not mutually exclusive. logically speaking, go ahead and limiting your little so i don't, i don't, and it's only a people going to be naive. and what we're seeing, i think, is this whole sales approach. i'm just a mr. aging springs from western media of nuclear war war and getting the blessing of brushing. and do you know, using this as a great pretext for journalists to not look at other areas of domestic grades failing? i think biden's doing some of the things that we know the term to answer one of your points earlier that you might, i think we are looking at human collateral deficits on the credit inside. and that is going to be the new crisis. and will it be filled by more youngsters from some of these near, near, near policy groups around the region local haven't in syria,

you know, people today in britain don't leave me. and i tell them that obama actually funded al qaeda terrorist and it, yes, i see like you like, you know, and it's a fact. we know it happens, you know. and is it so and look, look at britain did. when, during the leading up to the full of daffy, we allows libya, terrorists, we were living in britain to get on the plane. heathrow airport fly out to live, you know, pick up the machine, go and fight with al qaeda and then come back and with nothing more than a week from my 6 offices at the airport, we let them come back into the country. is it so far fetched to mention in a few weeks time, or few months time leaders like restaurants and give them the wink jeremiah 6 or 5? and you can say safe them. you need to find some of these nazi's. now in these poor countries in these poor communities and also include the need to find hundreds of these, not students who can be trained well and they would say might be well armed as well

. who knows? ok, i mean it's a very porous they will be because there's no use a certificate. so a lot of these weaponry that's going in there. so you don't know where on earth is going to end a week and on the word and we must end here. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in prague, london, and america, and thank up to our viewers for watching us here to see you next time. remember crossing i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order does that conflict with the 1st law show your

identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to great trust, rather than a very job with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with a fidelity talking about a

week with i don't know what to go on because i love us. we are with somebody over there or so she replied, 0 if you will just got it. is one of them you like with poverty over you look at them, you up with the and i do so as you know that way you, i don't mind a

so called enhanced interrogation techniques used by the u. s. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind. if you force a human being to stay in a certain position doesn't take very long to the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating, but nobody's lean finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. we started adopting those techniques when i was station and mosul among them were stress, possession, sleep deprivation, and type of therm. yeah. there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used on immigrant children. whatever you do in war comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the

past. the moral authority, the made america awarded sacrifice. but the shimmer of effective interrogation ah, the city will finish. okay, with the letters that brought both the moms in the do both nelson's new with grain already a lot of them, bob put him on board, been bought a year, the wallet.