supplier, i mean it, but it is in john mitch indebted to disappear west and tunnels with us a route for now. my name's peter scott, i'll be back again at the top of the hour with the latest news on views here on arts international. thank you for watching. ah ah

ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . when thinking about the e. u. one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry when it says it's united over the issue of ukraine. it is not, it says it doesn't want to fight russia, but in fact, is a co belligerent on the side of ukraine is determined to deeply damage rushes economy . but in doing so, damage is itself, ah, cross stocking the e u, i'm joined by my guess, marco gassett in london. he's an international affairs commentator in prague. we have brad blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n,

a freelance reporter push in law as well as a r t contributor and a mirror cash we custom roster. martin j. he's an award winning journalist, an commentator. all right, gentlemen, cross stock rolls in fact that much. i mean, you can jump in any time you want. now is appreciate a martin. i start out by saying, i don't know if i should laugh or cry when it comes to the e. u. i think that should be familiar to you because that was a title of an article you wrote a few days ago. why did you write it? go ahead. because we were just saying, i think of the u. s. foreign policy. i think of a ship in the middle of the ocean without of caps and just going round around those . you know, we're going into uncharted waters here that he was taking huge, huge steps into both very risky policies, which it has no track record doing. it probably most people who watch the show don't realize that you doesn't actually have a song policy. what it has is number of people and committees and buildings which will together collectively keep a sense of some sort going. and so for them to go ahead with this policy, you know,

i'm wondering how much research and how much was i've actually done a contingency plan. so i'm looking at property. that doesn't seem to be very well sorts out. i'm some process myself 11 years. i think i know how to do the works, i think can i believe that they think that putting it back on russian oil wouldn't need some loss for a long. it may need loss a few months. they sink and then that's the thinking behind it because i don't see how germany initially because last about you could actually survive about or, or you just import and also to look at so that you know, the area and check republic and of course hungry them all kicked out a little resistance to some of us so we don't actually disagree to our economy. and so they haven't really thought is true. we need to know is that he's very good looking at single market regulation like the size of your windscreen wipers or health and safety in the office. but it just doesn't do big stuff like this and it's really been of movement. it can choose. so i,

i really have to wonder whether this is the same for just really a start in the dark. well, if you, that's a very good point. if i go to marco and london, i mean, let's go back to february 2014. and the, you negotiated a, i, a, a, a political reform process and ukraine unit. cobit stupidly trusted them, and they, the document that they all signed the e u that the documents signatures weren't even dry before they reneged on it. this is this, this is the quality of the people that we're dealing with here. also a mark of i can, you know, we have the, the german foreign minister burbock. she says, germany is responsible for the defense of ukraine in all of europe. what is she talking about? i mean, does she understand the, the historical implications of that? i mean, and i don't know why anyone in europe would feel that they're responsible for what's going on in ukraine. i would say the leadership of the e. u at the time in 2014, there's a lot of responsibility. go ahead. marco certainly does. i mean,

it went in there with a little lost the wrong date in the previous geopolitical crisis in the lobby video of that one as well. promising to it's good offices in the service piece, and in both cases we got wall and complex. and i think that you just traditionally punches above its way to these terms. it has no real power, has a lot of last up and, and he listens to itself. is this little echoed bubbles? but at the moment it seems determined to drive its own interests in its most ladies in or out of big solid cliff over all the policy really coming out for the populations all the you through us. martin said we're not going anywhere good anywhere fast. and i don't see that changing as long as you insist on buying the american lead on this because the american legal, they always lead designs are. so you american interests, not the you ones. and maybe the, someone in the you want,

it's population to see just what happens when you do follow the americans to the cliff and look over and maybe that would be the freezing population. come this winter, my actually abandoned a long entrenched support for the american lead, which is them so much damage to european interests and in the interest worldwide, i think it's high time people did actually look at their own interest. robin hero worship kind of america advice and american spin the plans and promises as they seem to be doing so far. yeah, well, you know, marco and when you, when you think about it, what in fact has all of these sanctions against russia helped to create? let me throw that to brad in prague. i mean, at the end of the day, you know, how is your benefit in any way, sanctioning russia when it has no security interest in ukraine whatsoever. i mean, this is just bewildering to me. go ahead, brad. well, we're already thing here. and through the whole, you block that bed life is just becoming unbearably expensive for the average

person. this all has directly to do, not only with the sanctions against russia, but also the prolongation of the war in ukraine. we have to understand that militarize in ukraine is going to prolong the war. it is going to damage ukraine. it is going to drop that countries to be. it's going to destroy more infrastructure by continuing to artificially prolong it this week. the united states congress who we've all established is pretty much running to showing in europe, began negotiating on a $40000000000.00 appropriations bill for ukraine in that if you do the math and that that amounts to about a $100000000.00 per day, which is if you brought up to the whole year is 6 times the military budget of ukraine. so we're giving them capabilities that they would never be able to have to fight a war. that realistically, we all understand, they can't win in for what to weaken russia. and this is going to blow back. another thing that i think people have to talk about honestly it's not as is

pressing is the outright militarization ukraine. and then the military base of brushes, border for example, it's been lyn decides to join nato. but the potential for blow back, because i think that ukraine is going to become a hot spot for radical. it's because we've already established in western countries that that bar right militias are the leading terrorist organizations in these countries. and they're fighting right now and ukraine, and they're going to come back to the united states place. but united states, france, great britain, and start trouble there. so we are really shooting ourselves in the foot by military at the ukraine, sanctioning russia. and i don't see that there is any contemplation of the future girl. i'm let me go to martin. i'm really glad. brad brought brought that out because essentially, all of these appropriations, a lot of it's going to be stole and it's going to be end up on the black market. and it's good to go into the corrupt, politic pop pockets of oligarchy and ukraine. i mean, this is all well documented. i mean, this is nothing new. everybody knows anything,

but anyone that knows anything about ukraine knows this is the case, but they keep doing it anyway. i mean, this is, this is a mindless and it's really dangerous. go ahead, martin. yeah, i don't, but yet, so amount of bill, she kit heading there. now isn't me documented it? so it isn't being audited and i just wonder how long it will take for people to join the dots. you know, when we look at increased taxes, price hikes on utilities and food and gasoline. the i'm so i wonder when people are going to start saying, shouldn't we go looking more accurately whether the oldest kid is really getting them being use for the purposes that it was intended for? you know, people are very nice in the west and they're getting more naive than realizing was, owns corruption, takes over people, steam needs to skim off the top, you know, all you gotta still need to take that cut. but i think the answer, previous question, yours using a wilderness, baffled by what the objectives are here. i think the objectives for the you are

quite clear. i mean, for a long, long time the european union in particular, the federalist corps of the you and i'm talking about france here, particular as dreamt of being a supervisor. you know, when i was in brussels, i, i lost count him and didn't part is i went to where, you know, seeing that you have issues for glosses. wine would start talking about competing, and you've got to come up with america creating the united states of europe. and this is the federalist superpower dream. the people like macro have and to be honest, the e, u and macro i think, and looked at ukraine as, as almost a gift or something called given. because i wanted a very, very long time to justify scrapping the veto room, the unit and see on voting on big decisions and brussels, which is prevented this russian sanction soil planned going through should remember . and i also wanted the opportunity to present you on the, i think a micron is finally realized that the french to be more relevant for him to be more powerful and run the way he'd like to. well, i'm israel, i think martin,

i think that's a very valid point. but as a crown or anyone else of these, these kind of, um, super staters, have they ever, ever considered maybe asking the people of europe? that's what they want. i mean, again, this is neo liberalism, it is so anti democratic, go ahead, respond to that. no, they launched thousands of people alive. but some, perhaps getting the support of the shows a number of member states to correct the to speed europe, which is what microns been doing, what he's been go to the same last few days. and the president wants to create a new europe now, which runs at a different speed to the conventional $27.00 brock, which would ideally be run by france and would be a member, a group of member states and non you members like ukraine, possibly possibly like talk to you as well, you could sign up as part of the defense package to secure security pack this i did not news it around me on flips in 89. or you just got the samples about the same

thing on your in 2000 belongs to the, to speed europe. well, this is about giving more power to france to allow the french and macro correct. well, let me, let me go to america before we go to the breaker. i mean, that's very interesting. get more power. but if, if the entire block is economically diminished, what's it worth? it is a pirate victory. go ahead. america. ultimately when it comes to paula, when america calls the you will blink. so lisa, dinner, party conversations, which are very interesting as a guide as to what people really feel are in practice unable to come up that a you into what it wishes to be. all that you compile at the top in to what they wish you to be. so it's unlike that chaise. i'm so that it's funny that they seem to require lee annihilation ineffectual russia in order to further their aim. which isn't going to happen any time soon. either, i mean, it is in essence that you is driving, as i said, it's so into a cliff because we have a germany. it is gonna be within a decade,

an industrial backwater. yeah. these policies go through if oil and gas and energy co, from steel. if all the things are banned and are going to go, we're going to go to break a. but remember, right before the 2nd world war ended, everything about the morgenthau plan about di dusty, realizing germany who knew it back. it would come back in 2022 gentlemen. i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the state with our ah ah, with ah,

a talking with you the most likely it is a good with a, with a lawyer. issue somebody over there, both those with

you up with it. and i do so as you know that way. i don't mind ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on peter labelle. remind you were discussing the e u. i go back to brad in praga on wednesday of this week. ukraine. stop the, the, the flow of our, some of the, of the russian, or i'm sorry, gas to europe. this means this is gas is already been purchased. it is the of the maybe it is, it has an end destination and we have the perennial problem of, of,

of transit here and the ukrainians. get paid for it by the way, to ok all during this last you know, 10 weeks they're still getting paid for the transit remarkable for a war, but the ukrainians have decided to turn off the spick it so. brad is the, is the ukraine running he or the eas energy policy? now, i've been given that as well. well, you know, their perspective, they said that that it's because of the russian special operation there. but i mean, when i read this, my 1st thought was, yeah, i mean, it wouldn't be logical, do assume that, that it would, that it's actually them doing this because their every move that ukraine has done so far has been to dr. europe, deeper and deeper into the war. i mean, it kind of makes sense. they're doing this to show it. yeah. okay. here's what happens if you don't intervene because europe, as germany said, oh, what our responsibility to handle the situation ukraine. well,

that's really true. wyatt or german soldiers and ukraine. and i think, you know, i'm not saying that that's what i want to happen. of course, i don't want to escalation of anything in ukraine, but it should be critical when all they're doing is sending weapons, literally fighting the war in the last ukrainian. i mean, and i think if you look at it, and i mean it's, it's actually pretty sense there because that will just the story that country. and that's why we need to be, you know, doing anything to foster a diplomatic feasible solution to what's going on there. which, by the way, it could have also happened before it broke out to begin with the course. but the, the policy that the superstate or that you guys mentioned are pursuing to, you know, kind of consolidate the european security architecture by, you know, getting finland suite into joining nato. this is absolutely ridiculous. yeah, i mean, this is, this is a policy that is antibiotic or the human life on this planet. and i think that reasonable people. ready should be standing up in thing that's very well, brad, you know, want to hang out on december 17th of last year, russia sent 2 notes,

one to nato and went to the united states. and from that point on, i've been saying negotiate negotiate, negotiate, and we saw none of it. no good faith at all. coming from the west. ok, you, i recommend our viewers to see it, but they were all taken off of you tube. okay. go to the rti site, go to my program and you can see it here. ok martin, let me go to you also. i mean again, i mean it's like wagging the dog, wagging the tail. i mean that this is the, that the, what's going on here. i mean, no one in brussels is taking control, they say they're all unify unit and then the ukrainians can turn off to speak. it unilaterally. and the u. e. u doesn't know what to do. you know, it's lost and been to the point that market was making about these preposterous new coalitions or security deals that britain is making with send in sweden. that also undermines hugely, you know, it makes you look as though it's almost a sort of peripheral player. if you like, you know,

parents just to the whole plan. very interesting though. just a few days ago, you transform minister was talking in terms of the, you possibly teaching you praying an next session deal. when you're going at some point. did that follow because of macros? comments a few days or to just say that it might take a decade for ukraine to join. you know, i think there's tension between ukraine, on your opinion. on the one side, you know, the european union might know scenario when you try and it finds a piece to russia to soon before the, you actually have this objective new object is i believe, to use the projects of the war with russia in frame to create this new to speed europe, which michael run the french around. he's preparing shop now for a very, very long game. 2028. it will be the prime candidate to be the new european commission presidents in brussels. i put 100 bucks on that. i'm pretty sure that's going to happen. so he's preparing the french and the you for the long plan here. you know, but there are dangers that things don't quite go to plan and the plan is don't go

along with this surreptitious to which the europeans are pushing at the moment. so . ready lots of play for a lot of high stakes and we don't really have any certain outlook of which way this can turn. you know, the, you doesn't really seem to have much control. what's going on at the moment is just banking on the plan carrying more money into it and keeping the sanctions going. but it will somehow we compute in and that will put even a strong negotiated position on behalf of ukraine at some point. but then that's going to happen. well, i wouldn't bet the farm on there. i it, it, let's go back to uh, to marco and london here. i wanna read a quote, quote that up with boris jones, i think he was talking with a, i think that's a swedish finisher. of foreign minister relations with putin could not be normalized. so i mean what, what is the game plan here? i mean that the,

you will have no longer any relations at all with rushes. it's what he's trying to say here. ok, because that will play into rush. it's calculation and how it will end this conflict in ukraine. it's russia's time table and it's rushes objectives. and nothing coming from the west means anything to the kremlin at this point. go ahead marco, think the kremlin understands that was the u. s. lang and the u. k. a won't morrison biden won't. is a big, fat, long, exhausting war. which loss for as long as possible and leave the russians are as exhausted as possible and really the ukrainians, as i don't want to say dead as possible. but really what, what suits the u. s. washington. uh, grouping is full russians to look absolutely as bad as possible. and so therefore, there's a contradiction actually in the interests of the ukrainians themselves of care. and a washington bo gave doesn't seem to be understanding that certainly the ukrainian people should understand that they have no interest in the long wall that the u. s

. would lay open when marco mccarty, i came of a wool. if i could jump in here. okay, what, let's do a little bit of math right now. ok, i mean, there are, i don't know what percentage of the ukrainian population is already left ukraine in gone to europe. okay. then we can take a look at, there's probably a lot of elderly people in all these european countries have large, elderly communities. young people don't want to fight this war. so going back to brad's point, so all of this money, all this hardware is going to go to nazis as that julian and, and that's going to be the use ally in our partitioned ukraine. wow, talk about values, continue, marco, what it is true that the neo nazis in ukraine are relatively small number, but hugely significant on the streets where they hold the discipline population in order to have them since they were allowed into power by the you and the u. s and, and others in 2014. so they're,

they're on the streets keeping order that they're in the army, making sure that things are done as they will. they be their main shallows, motors of don't buy as it were for that period of years. and there was a there in politics making sure that people live. lindsay don't actually live up to the problems that they originally made. and on which basis they were elected, which was of a peaceful ukraine, not the one we have now. so they are hugely born and you, it is true that you can a piece without the modification because the nazis and the extreme is right in ukraine seem to be running too much of the show in cahoots. unfortunately, with people in washington and those in, in brussels, in berlin, who should know better. you know, brad, you know, because you brought it up 1st on the program here. i mean, this is a very unsavory alliance because as things get worse and worse for ukrainian armed forces, the you in the us in the u. k. are going to depend more on these in the various groups more than ever. well, you know,

somebody who's lived roughly in the post communist world for a few years, i can say that that alliance is not as unholy is you might wish it was. i think that there is quite a large market for that for those kind of ideas. certainly when the check are public right live, i mean we have like city officials in problem building neo nazi or i'm sorry, nazi collaborator, money money, and then tearing down soviet war hero memorials. essentially rewriting the history of the 2nd world war. and i find all of that extremely disturbing and disgusting. and it's like if, if, if this happens in ukraine, that these various courses, the only one that are going to be willing to fight this nato. russia proxy conflict, i think that it will drive radicalization here in the you and certainly in the united states because we already know that there are far right groups like the bug, a little boys fighting in ukraine right now. in fact, there's a guy from the roughly where i lived, where i was born in ohio,

who was found there and he made some tick tock, videos saying that they were being forced to fight their they can't leave that. yeah. yeah, yeah it's, it's a martin, it's really amazing. and these are these groups, it's a magnet for the these unsavory characters and western media just doesn't want to cover it. i mean, but if you have any slight interest whatsoever and finding out about these things, you can, it's very easy but the, we have a complete shut down of any kind of conversation about this. you know, the lens keys that you so must mean all of this what, what we're saying doesn't make any sense. well, they're not mutually exclusive. logically speaking, go ahead and limiting your little so i don't either and it's only a few going to leave. and what we're seeing, i think, is this wholesale approach. just a mr. aging springs from western media of nuclear war war and getting the blessing of brushing people. and do you know, using this as

a great pretext for journalists to not look at other areas of domestic policy ways failing? i think brian is doing some of the things that you know the term to answer one of your points earlier that you might, i think we are looking at human collateral deficits on the inside and that is going to be the new crisis. and will it be filled by more youngsters from some of these near, near, near policy groups around the region local haven't in syria, you know, people today in britain don't leave me. and i tell them that obama actually funded al qaeda terrorist. and i see like you like, you know, and this is a fact, we know it happens, you know, and is it so, and look, look at britain, when, during the leading up to the full of death, we allows libya, terrorists, we were living in britain to get on the plane, heathrow airport, fly out to live, you know, pick up the machine, go and fight with al qaeda and then come back and with nothing more than

a week from my 6 offices at the airport, we let them come back into the country. is it so far fetched to mention in a few weeks time or a few months time leaders like restaurants and give them the wink jeremiah 6 or 5 and you can say safe them. you need to find some of these nazi's. now in these poor country is 14 inches and north of it. you need to find hundreds of these not students who can be true well and they would say might be well armed as well. who knows? ok, i mean it's a very porous they will be because there's no use a certificate. so a lot of these weaponry that's going in there, so you don't know where enough is going to end and nobody has any obligation. we're not in the end on the word and we must end here. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in prague, london, and america, and thank up to our viewers for watching us here are key. see you next time. remember crossing a

so called enhanced interrogation techniques used by the u. s. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind. if you force a human being to stay in a certain position doesn't take very long to the pain involved, to become absolutely excruciating. but nobody's clean finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. we started adopting those techniques when i was station and mosul among them were stress position, sleep deprivation. a hyper thermo is already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used on immigrants and children, whatever you do or more comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the

torture that happened in the past. the moral authority, the made america will later sacrifice the shimmer of effective interrogation. ah, the blue let's say, is a booting firm. both francis, just like his predecessor, he's a fan of the moon on transition and they may have to weigh a only see russia relations. why the need so being cause acknowledge the fact that the west can not to be or increased again, the west is lost to the west and drive to the post christian era. ah

ah, with an art the crew shelled in the den? yes, the public with 2 common wounded and taken off the bill they're working on the mining and essentially the general plan is to bring back to power the power plant over there and bring back the so much needed electricity supply to the city of mario pope or correspondent witnesses, the de mining operation in amount of you pull as if it still goes to return to normal. and then the ongoing fighting the out of steel plants and every piece detained is a protest against demolition of a soviet era memorial in the countries capital. she since been released ah on the way to

believe.