moral authority, the made america with the shimmer most effective inter ah, [000:00:00;00] with me. hello and welcome to worlds apart, the old lady, mary lynn, is maxime show me your friends, and i'll tell you who you are. the more relevant today, especially in the context of the war torn ukraine, not only politics, but an entire worldview can be deducted from where one sounds on the conflict. how much do these for blinds influence fraud blinds while to discuss it?

i'm now joined by emanuel gets her born italian author and political consultant. mr . peters, her one is good to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you very much for an individual. now i know that for you, the conflict in ukraine is not just about ukraine now, or it's territory. you wrote recently that it's a battlefield where the west, russia and other big players are fighting over diversions of and you world daughter . i wonder if these transition to a new world order is inevitable. i do think it can actually be averted if one of the sides is specifically the west. prevails in my, you being, you'll know, ah, the transition to want to polarity is inevitable. and the event will defeat russia, could only slow down the line of the western, the medium over war. the reasons are,

several of them are to do with the west. not only speaking about the loss, so they show credibility, the loss of economic interests over dork. i'm or eyes of china, for instance. i'm speaking about the west. i speak to the concert called to and speaking about the demographic crisis, the birth of the economy comprises within the west. for the more and more level, the increased level of the call is a children's fragmentation western side. so the reason in simple reason the all these reasons have to do with the west, which in my opinion, and not only in my opinion, but also the opinion of several political scientists will inevitably lead to the

decline of wester or medium overdue. or i think some of the west, especially in the liberal camp, they're also hoping for a transition to your brand new will that it is sort of a transition back to the future. for example, francis will be, i'm a prominent american political scientist who was a frequent guess. i'm a very influential figure in here. over the last couple of years, he rode recently that a russian defeat will make possible a new birth of freedom. 2 and that it will allow to renew this period of 1989. putting aside the ability, why do you think that period of 1989, the falling berlin wall, the collapsing soviet union, this emerging american uniformity? why do you think it was so shortly? the spirit of 89 was so short believe because as you said,

it was led by the call ups of the soviet union. so it wasn't truly generally, it was a dollar drive and let's say, so i'm not saying that it was the money factor because it was and um, but it was a man led by the rise of the polar moment. and as soon as the war experiences the unfairness and the many were buried, this of the unit for a moment in particular of the war on terror, the bomb being on the ground on the ground. the war started turning the little overnight. so it wasn't about russia because russia at that time was a week, was a plenty of time, no problem. it wasn't about china,

which was focused on our internal growth. it was for other reasons. so i can, i can't agree with the spirit of 89 because i fully as a said that the spirit was mainly bullard drive them. and the very short, regardless of the outcome of this battle for a new world, the united states will remain a very influential country. whatever they do, they will still be a major player supreme player. why do you think they are going to such great lengths and frankly, such risks. now, in openly confronting russia when they, you know, to get something that they already have an abandoned. why, what it, what is it exactly the day after? the thing is, the european and american joe politics as

a lot to do with russia. so the right, the states is already the 1st measure power of the war. but in order to keep being a global empire, the u. s. is a, let's say, like works. there are some kind of divider rule over asia because as of 0 for the mccain, there's said and you know mac and there is the funding father, joe politics, rules are rules over door. so for the us is not meant there of memory confronting russia. is matter of keeps being the measure power over arrays because the medium over russia gives the united states the lead over the warrant. you also mentioned them the, one of your recent articles that divide an administration in the,

in the policy via crane. and they're not on the ukrainian conflict. is trying to kill 2 birds with one stone undermine russia, as you said. but also we can, the berlin paris acts is that is to reduce the influence of those political forces in europe, who are in favor of europe's larger autonomy, strategic autonomy from the united states. how advanced is washington at this point in accomplishing these 2 goals? well, if the by them, administration achieve the goal because the european power steal, strategical autonomy as has been put to sleep. nobody is talking about the distinction, the damp with the rush. they are only speaking about the system at the best. and

the end of the coupling, which was very, very important that was on the economy, the link between the european market and russian market has been gone for the energy, the coupling. it will be a matter of months of years, but it will take place. and as you know, the stream to is that, and then we have not to which some years ago was the fine the brain that by mach wrong, but now is more alive than ever before. and it seems like it is even going to be a large with the entry of sweden and finland. so from my point of view by the administration has already achieved the goal. it's sure that americans are moving very fast in, in terms of that strategic objectives that i think it's only starting to join on the european how much they will have to pay for that in, you know,

literal terms. you know, every single european citizen and you know, supermarket or at a gas station, but also in strategic and tactical terms. as the cost of these policies become more clear to the european people, you think, you know, those results the americans have achieved for now, do you think they could be sustain? let's start from these. nothing left forever. so when a speaker about to buy them, administration and shipping the goal and speaking about the short or the best of the mean that, that and the, for the show needs down there can be no peace, no brought to me between noon on the rush. this is more than a bulk of the cost of the long term sustainability. and this is very

interesting. actually the mighty states hoped for, for lead bounce big 3 and the rest of the french elections because a mac wrong is a seen as an obstacle between the american agenda for europe and the european agenda for europe. because mac wrong is the mastermind of this for digital tongue. micron is the one ones right now, the only one for francis and all of them is the only one wants to dialogue with russia. so, you know, micro will be the measure obstacle in the years to come, even because micron rosalie died to germany and also germany or in they live shoals and the angle america. they hoped for a micron selection. because micro selection will give life

to the but he's battling axes and from the bet, but it's better the next is the bands, the future fewer and of course, the future of europe, russia relations. can i ask a specifically about the economic sanctions? because you wrote the reason that these economic sanctions, against most are both unprecedented and planned in advance. but i'm seeing more and more western analysts suggesting that the scale of the sections and specifically that effect on 3rd countries, how painful it is to the rest of the world. maybe the biggest achilles heel. and that it may actually come back to her, the united states. do you think that there are indeed so well plan, do you think the united states are calculated accurately the rest of the world's ability and you know, willingness to carry the burden of the american decision?

i did right. that they were very long and unprecedented. but i also, i did something they were mainly they were acted against the were in union and the only at the 2nd level they were and they are aimed at the weakening rush. why? because the united states is a well aware of one fact. no one can expel russia from the global markets. you simply can't, because russia is not to north korea, russia, russia is the major producer and explore that of energy goes all over to war. and secondly, as they said, the, the main goal of the main target was to, we can do european union. why? because the work union for the united states is a yes, a military ally, but the is also an economic rival. so the sink show regime was

a long planned and carefully studied to we can do, you know, and indeed the 1st target of the sanctions regime as you know, was the norm to stream to so by then the, the work to bomb up with them. now for many years, american political scientists criticized russia for using crude power and extolled the american ability to exercise self. busy or smart power and when other players back to america will not because they are forced to but because they genuinely one till finally, special for themselves. getting these images that are of fun of the global common good as an author or an advocate of universal. busy rules and values, it will change as a result of this whole ukrainian affair. in my opinion,

doesn't matter who we do crane war, because they show a crisis of the united states and not to be sold. i mean, not now, not in the years to come because they might, the states administration on may the too many mistakes in the recent years. the 1st for sleep am i make sure that the water you know, the world that are an incredible impact not only in the rest of the world, but also on the west. for instance, my country, the impact on the public opinion was very huge. there was a growth, an incredible growth of american. he's in the wake of the water because of the death office that i'm saying because of the death of more monica, which was one of the very best allies, you know,

and he was wildly killed. ok. so i think the image of the united states is and their mind they and their mind themselves was undermined by themselves. and the outcome of this war, of the peace of the 3rd world war in pieces will not impact significantly on the image of the united states. on the contrary, it do we look for there all our eyes do warm the blocks. ok, well mr. pierre, one, we have to take a very short break right now, but we will get back in just a few moments in ah for

ah, ah ah, need to come to the russian state will never be tied as i'm phoning most. i'm seeing with 55 with

will ban in the european union. the kremlin. yup. machine. the state aunt, rush up to date and our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube with ah, a political mister p one before the break. we talked about this transition to a new world order. rush is given says with the current system of american dominance

are well known. i think they're almost and to logical in nature, but you suggested that much of the global south also has a stake in this transition. what are the potential benefits in just throwing out washington for the rest of the globe, excluding russia? made benefits. let's only think about working a many of washington. so most trusted allies, historical ice like india. so your b, r, m, brazil is that it will light. it's was the show because you didn't america as the side to side with russia. they need to talk to by don't call to arms against russia. why did so? because the warranty is also elite for them,

for they have a global s p ration. so they are citing with russia because we are here before the west against the breast. and the west, although all the sty since the end of the cold war, ignored the interest of the rest of the ward. this is why by them was surprised by their refusal. the refusal of their refusals coming from countries like saudi arabia and brazil. but many political analysts like me when in surprise, the rest of the war is a watch in these war. and these are citing with russia because the event while defeat of the west and not on the military terms, but on diplomatic terms. and also on economic terms, because if you, if you,

if you don't join the sanctions regime against russia, you are fighting with russia implicitly. so the rest of the war deciding with russia hopefully to catalyze the multiple are, can see you also suggested that your brain is both and battlefield and any go shaping table for the already ongoing 3rd world war in peace is. that's a very interesting phrase. what exactly do you mean, and how is it different from the previous world wars when they speak about the war, the war in these, i'm using the concept which was popularized by of frances in the wake of the war. and it is what political scientist used to call great power competition. what the press as are name called war 2. and it is different

than compared to the previous war war, because it is a formal, the great powers are not war, but this war is called there. and they are fighting across the globe by means. sometimes the color shows us even worse. deborah is the result of 31 and the new kind of weapons like 5 bucks and the company was. so it's much more different than in the past. i think you also mentioned that there is a, in one of your articles that there is a shift towards the periphery. is that the many of the facilities started that the prefers. and that got me and thinking about tolkien books in which protagonist 1st 5 for their own land. and then they come together to fly for the so called middle earth. and to some extent ukraine has a turkey,

syria. they're all sort of middle lens, their position right between, you know, other big players and potentially they have a lot to gain, but also a lot to lose. i think the case of afghanistan is, is a very good one. it's a very rich country in terms of mineral resources, it's allocated geographically in a very advantageous position, but for decades it's been ravaged by conflict. what do you think is this my strategy in this day and age for such middle earth powers? how should they get, conduct that policy to maximize the benefit and minimize the chances for conflict? well, the best strategy could be the following dialogue with every one alignment with no one. but we are in the mean of the war

war in peace. so no, great or not the russia will accept from the as far worse, a full non alignment. if i were to keep a were a because that's them. i would suggest a, you won't be missing my country. okay, you are welcome. you want to use that money to put it. you're going to ask me, your money is not welcome, but it will be very, are on the do train war as being the work or should moment of our era for it when war some the position or follow the just surgically position and countries like as you said because i asked them to come back to not only them and it would be very hard, much harder than today to be non aligned to be now from now we mentioned

a frances a couple of times and he's an interesting figure he's been involved in the ukrainian conflict diplomatically since it's very beginning of the site. some of that involvement was quite controversial. for example, a couple weeks ago he post with a nationalist, ukrainian nationalist. i would have been saying, you know, not a banner, but a few days ago, he made some very bold. and i would say politically incorrect statements about this war, saying that it was caused by, quote, need to barking at russia's door, which he said to cause the kremlin to quote, react badly and unleash the conflict. but what's the significance of this statement like this coming from one of the worlds and one of the west, most prominent spiritual leaders, i cannot think about any other leader of the so called western world to say

something along those lines. well, i wasn't surprised at all when i read the book statements, because the book now let's say, is the fun book francis, just like his predecessor is a fun of the more people are transition. and they have to way for an organization or the holy see russia relations. why need so just because they acknowledge the fact that the west cannot be or increased again, the west is lost to the west and throughout the post christian era. and the holy sea is both a political and the spirit, while power, i think it is the only purely spiritual power of the ward. and so the vatican thinks about politics, economics,

but also about spirituality and francis just like his predecessor. so in russia, the so called to be called catacomb gas, the civilizational decline in favor of for stan, he's a show on traditional beds. this is why the holy scene has tried in the recent years to approach to russia. and that has the spouse itself, from the west. for instance, the holy c back, the russia operation in syria, the only c private life relation we live in as well, the holy see all the play. they're all doing the obama era. you know, the signing of the nuclear deal, and this is why the holy see right now is trying to

escalate the cry between the west and russia. and by means of those very strong the corporation because they are very strong or francis center site to go to europe, the united states and russia, the holy see, wants peace. and i would like to be part of the peace agreement. you said that the you weren't so surprised by po francis, this statement, but as i was reading american accounts of it and then how is it? i think there was a lot of this, me, a lot of anger, some questioning of the pope's cognitive ability and his wisdom. do you think washington downtown should use sanctions against the whole thing? because clearly what the pope is saying goes very vividly against what the, by the administration and the rest of the west is trying to push as the as the truth. well, you know, sanctions are the best,

the tool of the might the states foreign policy. so they could try to sanction the book, i think the united states some are magically will for their, why the distance with a policy that will not do it optimally. but they will the, with, for the wrote this optimization agenda in the rest of the war. because against the background of the war, war in peace against the background of the west, russia confrontation of the seen american confrontation, there is another war taking place across the globe. and in the war inside the christianity, there is capitalism against the protestant charts. the growth,

the global growth of protestant sharps is mainly driven by the united states. so the united states might well or apply to the pulps a strong position if they were in russia, by for their funding and accelerating. sometimes a shop several countries. when mister pitt, they're gone, this is a very interesting conversation. unfortunately, we are out of time. but the only thing i would say is that regardless of which confessional christian concussion, we belong to, or even which religion we belong to. because many abrahamic religions have a very similar themes, as the bible says lasted the peacemakers, because they will be called children of god. let's hold both francis or whoever wants to make a contribution to resolving this conflict will succeed, but the time being thank you very much. for sharing your thoughts with fully agree with you and thank you very much again for the invitation and thank you for

watching hope to syria again on well the part ah with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time. time to sit down and talk