ah, if anybody's been trapped in elevators, 20 minutes could be pretty long time right and the load trapped in an elevator for 20 minutes. not knowing what's going to happen, not knowing where he wore a sense of sensory deprivation. i think that is your life. plenty visits about an hour. not at all. yeah. the intercom is nothing i was trying to get you out. i was keeping you in. is your communication? oh thats existence ah ah

a lot more of the building. mm . no more on turn begins with alca, but it does not in there. it will not. and until every terrorist group of global reach has been found stopped and defeated. ah . i think in last more in the warranty. so you know, a comparison decline, resort to torture, and i think it gives them the illusion of mastery and dominance and control by

torturing essentially we blind ourselves. but we could in fact, create a democratic society which actually has consistently valuable and effective techniques to fight terror. the fact that we don't is more an expression of our own anxieties and fears. mm. mm. so, so it has interrogation techniques used by us. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind and therefore also the body because they are very connected and leave no physical traces. it's an extremely destructive practice. torture on, of course, on those who receive this pain and suffering. but also on the sidey that becomes

a society of cruelty. what we've done is we've not so much lost the war on torture as we've won the war on democracy. and that through terrorizing a population over a period of decades. so that there's nobody in this country who didn't grow up with some booky man, some danger. first, it was communism. then it was terrorism. ah, we are obviously engaged in many facets of what is generally called the cold war. rich, a communist policy is force and no doubt as the engage in any political activity or any intelligence there was not approved

at the highest level. ah, there was a concern that emerged in the 1st article in the late notice that the soviets had cracked the code of human consciousness. that they knew how to apply pressure upon the human mind and break the my mind. and it was that, that set off this whole pursuit that laid ultimately to the creation of the she eyes, doctrine of psychological torture. this was a time of the brain washing scare. there were show trials in eastern europe, in hungary and poland, which aroused a lot of concern in the west because people seem to be confessing to crimes that they hadn't committed or

mm. most importantly was the trial of cardinal months in ski and hungry. and jessica was already in an actual war to quite famous because she was known for having resisted the nazis and their occupation of hunger. and then after the war, he became the cardinal in the primary church. they arrested him. they can find him was choose of being nervous to price. it became a kind of target of that regime. and then he was put on trial, were publicly he confessed to the charges against him. and there was this fear in washington, the prince of the church. a man known for his church under nazi pressure that if he could be broken clearly, the soviets were possession of techniques. mm.

the c i s reaction was primarily around what they thought was brainwashing the concerns with communist brainwashing. what they never seemed to realize was that these communist techniques were actually borrowed originally from earlier american techniques in the 1920s in 1000 ten's, using sleep deprivation, exhaustion exercises. all these other techniques were standard domestic policing tortures. but they were also driven by 2nd concern. there was a moral panic in the 1950s that a american p o w is in korea. they confessed to things that were completely untrue and it didn't look like they had been tortured. during the korean more, what happened was that there were chapter down american aviators. and there were around 30 pilots, a testimonies. there were 4 pilots,

the broadcast on radio bear june, alleging that the united states was using bacteriological warfare against the korean people. after the armistice, one, these pilots were released or brought back and they were put through court martials . and they realized that they had been put through what was then called brain wash . could you describe the method used by the communist, the cherokee? oh yes, i would put these methods into to categorize physical torture, all the start and mental torture. it consisted mainly of standing at attention, having my face flap once in awhile and i did fail to respond as they wanted me to it consistent of being confined in a very close area. the mental treatment which they gave was a start day designed to try to wear down

my resistance to their interrogation to break my willpower to force me in some manner to confess. a mind control project starts in 50. this was a project that involved a $1000000000.00 a year. there was a, a formal creation, a british finance american operation at the highest levels in order to mobilize behavioral scientists. so these 3 countries are to kind of crack the code of human consciousness of medical doctors or cornell university medical school in new york city. they got access to some other more classified material on people that escaped from the soviet union and had been tortured in the service in wolf was a very well known neurologist. he had

a personal relationship with alan dallas, the head of the cia and with the human ecology of son was offered to who does ca, essentially a friends in order to study questions of brainwashing what they discovered was $11.00 of the 2 foundational techniques and the cia doctrine of psychological torture. they discovered a self inflicted pain. what they described in that, in their, in their co author article was that the most devastating technique that the k g b, n, k, v d practice was not crude physical beatings. but simply making subjects stand immobile for hours and days at a time. if you force a human being to stay in a certain position, especially a position that puts a little stress on ligaments or muscles or bones,

joints. it doesn't take very long for the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating. but nobody's lane figure finger on you. you are doing it to yourself. ah, that was one of the techniques. the other technique they discovered was from the the by medical research. there was dr. haves work, it was the chair of the psychology department at mcgill university in canada. students volunteered to participate in the study of human behavior under extreme and prolong monogamy. their hands and arms were softly covered to muffle a sense of touch, all harsh lights subdued by a mass comfortable bell choir. and yet it was impossible for most of these students

to take it for more than $24.00 or 48 hours. center deprivation really is way of producing 3 monotony. it's of horrible experience getting worse and worse. somebody, somebody talked about cruelty. what they said was that the degree of board of became intolerable and was once i'd been said as bad as anything you had to hitler had ever done to any of his son due to his victims. as we know from almost any basic medical understanding human contact is what makes us human and alert enables a person to have a sense of normalcy in their lives. and when they are completely isolated from any human contact and often kept in this sensory isolation, you will literally easily become severely, mentally impaired or have then they came up

a consult with the cia continued to work for them. is really the progenitor, modern psychological torture on this project funded another guy, mcgill named dr. ellen cameron. what you and cameron did at elmore island city was, was close to monstrous. ah, i came in psychotherapy, i was just crying, crying cry. melissa, hopeless. i didn't know what to expect. they said i was going to the psychiatric ward. ah, you meant that that, that cameron, that's you and cameron? yes, i met him. that we were all was terrified of him. why? we also fear we all had a fear of him and we didn't want him to notice us because whatever he did,

whenever there was a patient with them, the patient was always screaming ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point, obviously is to create truck rather than fit with like take on various china with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with

with only one main thing is important for knox ism internationally speaking, that is, that nation's allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the minor nations who are the slaves. americans, brock, obama, and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism. international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this. danger is, boy, man, that wants to take over the world. that was a culture strategy. so some of it on your own. i know she leashed off to move on and tablet block nato's. it. it's ours, we move east. the reason i address his image is so dangerous, is it? the law is the sovereignty of all the countries. the exceptionalism that america

uses in its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nature, what is founded, shareholders, united states and elsewhere in large obs companies would lose millions and millions wars business and businesses. good. and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion. and these are the days and hours. oh, the occasion professor, you and cameron was a very famous psychiatrist. he was head of the american psychiatric association and the world psychiatric association. he was the top of the field. at the same time, he seemed pretty much willing to do anything. and the for the cia to find a doctor who didn't have limits in a nearby cap, but oh,

with lots of patients to work with last is subs that subjects was somebody they were interested in supporting patients would come in, ah, with ordinary psychological emotional problems. they sign their waivers and then they would be subjected to this czar urchin of xtreme sensory deprivation isolation for, for up to a month. one of his favorite things was he had a sort of a football helmet with a tape recorder. and that would play a tape and look up to 500000 times, say things like my mother hates me and he would blit the brim with ropes answered deprivation and kind of psychological emotional assault. well, what's working? i mean it's garbage blue.

ah, what he did was he would put people under massive electro shock and he would give it to the banner prolong basis along with what he could sleep therapy. his idea was, once you wipe the brain clean, you could wipe out the site a buried behavior. the bad ideas, the ideas they were messing up people's minds. and you could program in other ideas better convulsive therapy picked up and was widely used in germany before went anywhere else as a way of returning soldiers to war. the german army was not going to spend tons of money on psychotherapy for regular soldiers, so they were looking for cheap and effective ways to send soldiers back to war. it then moves into the united states in the clinical note of march 23rd 1962 confirmed a 129, e. c. t 's cameron's clinical,

known as september 12th recommend patterning and sleep. the clinical notes of october, 19th, november, 1st november, 3rd, november 8th, december 15, all confirmed the patterning and various stages myself to those that was falsely acting strange, right? my mother decided to have, i decided to have the bill to the and find out what was wrong. so i went to the on a couple of months later, and bathroom has shocked on me. i was in now on for 6 months, and this would repeat. yeah, over days and days and weeks and yeah, it's what you feel you have been through being the patent. yes, i guess and i say you in mariah and are different worlder

a race somehow could be yeah, well. 1 they didn't finish the treatments with me. so when i came out, i was still active and so on. but they did. you went through 3 sessions of di patterning treatments. and when i asked you about things before you don't, you don't remember like i say, if i ask you what were you? what's that for you typing for the national defense, for instance. oh, on that now, are there certain things in your memory that you just don't remember? oh, this 1st hospital life i was about 1616 and a half. the doctors pushed me into a sleep therapy. and that was it for about 3 weeks in this sort of a deep sleep. but i don't remember getting up to go to the washroom. i don't, i just remember that the doctor came in occasionally to feed me,

and that was it. and then shortly after a while there was another patient that came in and she was an older one and she slept in the other bed. when i started to wake up, i saw these patients and these patients were in tube, some of them they had earphones and headphones. i dont know if they did any of that to me because when i with the 1st 3 weeks, i don't know what happened. but this was d patterning. ah, this yes, doctrine of psychological torture that they develop, of through research in the decade, the 1950s. and was codified in the bar counterintelligence interrogation manual. oh hm. mm mm. mm. as to

basic techniques on which all the rest of the procedures to run one is sensory deprivation and the other is self inflicted pain. ah, the cia trained allied agencies in the techniques. so in effect, you know, knowing about dissemination about if use, send these techniques to other armies. could you take an ordinary individual, lighter resty, or recruit and make a person become an effective interrogate? and it seems that mill gms experiment was like in part of his project when i learned of incidents such as the destruction of millions of men, women and children, perpetrated by the nazis in world war 2. how is it possible i ask myself that ordinary people were courteous and decent in everyday life?

can i callously in you mainly without any limitations of conscience? under what conditions, when a person obey authority, who commanded actions and went against conscience? these are exactly the questions that i wanted to investigate at your university. the marines permit very simply was assimilated torture. this was one, not all the research we've been describing is the impact of interrogation upon the subject. milgar had another agenda, the impact of interrogation upon the interrogator. if he were to indicate the wrong answer, you would say wrong. then tell him the number of rolls you're going to give him. then give him the punishment and read the correct word pair. once he got an ordinary people who fit by all the regular scales, very normal americans. and then he subjected them under false color to just to doing what he called an educational experiment. in try to encourage people to apply

ever higher voltages. as a false patient kept on getting, making mistakes. in fact, milgar was able to encourage, at least in his 1st experiments, i think close to 70 percent, to go on to apply highly dangerous and sometimes fatal shocks. i'm not going to get that man. i mean, there, i mean, i mean i learned lice in a not we must go on until you're done with all the time to refuse to take the responsibility and get hurt. that means under all right, let me, it's absolutely essential. as you continue teacher, there are still many left here. i'm eager to get wrong good as to when i left. i mean i'm going to take the responsibility. apparently i was it. i don't, i'm responsible for anything that happens here. continue with i natural slow. wow,

damage truck. music answer plays wrong. ah 95 volts dance. i did this simply with a very simple thing. putting the person behind the wall and having a person with a white lab coat, telling them that they needed to continue. very ordinary people can be influenced by situations and it's one of the implications of both the milligram experiment is embargo. the stanford prison experiment was i think, a unique attempt to answer that question of what makes some people

behave in good way. but what makes some people behave in a bad way? and so the idea was let's, let's find an evil place and prisons everywhere in the world are evil places. and less phil, this evil place was only good people to get the students involved. i had convinced the palo alto police department to make mach arrest of all the students who got a president. and then they came down to the basement of at stanford psychology department. the place where the prison study was done. the idea is prison is made to feel inferior, insignificant, worthless. the most important thing is you take away the name, they become a number. and of course, given they have smocks it with no underpants that behind is showing

like my 1st hour in there. it was humiliating, lose also. abrupt was quick. it was just, you know, take him off, put this on. and then i got dusted with baking soda, which was supposed to be the d. lauser. and i was led by the cell. what is embargo did was a very cheap knock off of the kind of thing that milligram was doing. not always embargo, but i think, you know, the guard called john wayne believed that ethics don't matter if the environment is artificial and that's not true. all life is real life we needed to get tougher with the prisoners and it could well be that we were

instructed by the experimenters to get to. in fact, i don't think we considered ourselves to be a subject of the experiment. were merely a tool of the researchers to get the results they wanted from the real subjects, which we thought were the prisoners. and i decided to become the nastiest prison guard that i could make myself back. and i was responsible for coming up with all of these routines that i would put the prisoners through where i'd have them stand and align, recite their numbers, do push up to do jumping jacks. i had never once stop to think that these prisoners were suffering any harm or any damage. we're not, we're not beating anybody. we're just sort of applying psychological pressure on them. oh wow. yeah.

a yeah, harms me. how did how does it hard? just to claim that people can be like yeah, it, let me in on some knowledge that, that i've never experienced firsthand. i read about it. i read a lot about it, but i've never experienced it for i've never seen someone turn that way and i know you're a nice guy. you know, well, you and potential, i would you of that. i don't know. ah, a with,

or a boutique firm booked for us is just like his predecessor is a funnel for the more people are in transition and they have to wait for a holy c rochelle relations why they need. so because the acknowledge the fact that the with the west, these walls to the west and right as opposed to christian era situational

forces can overwhelm, can dominate even the best of us. ordinary people put in a bad evil environment can become transformed to become part of that negative environment. and it's any of us, or in fact, most of us the office of naval intelligence, it was a pretty consistent cut out front for cia. they funded much of this research and i don't know if there was a yield that they, they produce a yield for this cruel science. i don't, i, let's, it's maybe i'm wrong. i just don't think they do it might play out spectacularly in the military. so the connections would be much further down the road. it would be particularly in the iraq war and in the.