ah, hello, and welcome to worlds apart. the old of live in maryland is maxime, show me your friends and i'll tell you who you are. the more relevant today, especially in the context of the war torn ukraine, not only politics, but an entire world view can be deducted from where one sounds on the conflict. how much do these 4 lines influence of fraud blind? well, to discuss that i'm now joined by emanuel gets her born italian author and political consultant. mr. p. one is good to talk to. thank you very much for your time. thank you very much for an individual. now i know that for you, the conflict in ukraine is not just about ukraine now, or it's territory. you wrote recently that it's a battlefield where the west, russia and other big players are fighting over diversions of and you world order. i'm, i wonder if these transition to a new world order is inevitable. i do think it can actually be averted if one of

the sides specifically the west, prevails in my you being young. ah, the transition to people i repeat is inevitable. and the event will defeat russia, could only slow down the line of the western medium overdue war. the reasons are several of them have to do with the west. and not only speaking about the loss, so they show credibility, the loss of economic influence over dork. i'm or eyes of china, for instance. i'm speaking about the west and speak to the concert talk. and speaking about the demographic crisis, the birth of the economy, crisis within the west. for the more and more level,

the increased level of for the call is age children's fragmentation, west side. so the reason in simple reason and all these reasons have to do with the west, which in my opinion, and not only in my opinion, but also the opinion of several political scientists will inevitably lead to the decline of western and medium over to ward. i think some of the west, especially in the liberal camp, they're also hoping for a transition to your brand new will that it is sort of a transition back to the future. for example, francis will be, i'm a prominent american political scientist who was a frequent guess and, you know, very influential figure in here over the last couple of years, he wrote recently that a russian defeat will make possible a new birth of freedom and that it will allow to renew this period of 1989. putting

aside for ability. why do you think that period of 1989, the falling berlin wall, the collapsing soviet union? this emerging american unit, larry, why do you think it was so shortly? the spirit of 89 was so short believe, because as you said, it was led by the collapse of the soviet union. so it wasn't truly generally, it was a dollar drive and let's say, so i'm not saying that it was a manufactory because it was and um, but it was a man led by the rise of the polar moment. and as soon as the war experience it on fair, so the many more that it is the unipolar moment in particular to what they are,

the bomb being on the ground on by grant ward started turning the little overnight. so it wasn't about russia because russia at that time was a week, was a plenty of time, no problem. it wasn't about china, which was focused on our internal growth. it was for other reasons. so i can, i can't agree with the spirit of 89 because i really as they said that the spirit was mainly alert drive them. and the, and the very short, regardless of the outcome of this battle for, you know, a brand new world, the united states will remain a very influential country. whatever they do, they will still be a major player supreme player. why do you think they are going to such

a great life? and frankly, such risks. now, in openly confronting russia when they, you know, to get something that they already have an abandoned. why, what it, what is it exactly the day after? the thing is that the european and american joe politics has a lot to do with russia. so they read the states. it's already the 1st measure power of the war. but in order to keep it being a global empire, the u. s. busy is a, let's say like, there are some kind of divider rule over asia because as of cl, florida mccain, there's said, and you know, mac and there is the funding father of politics. rules are rules over door. so for the us is not meant there of mentally confronting russia is matter

of keeps being on the measure power over asia, because the mean over erasure gives the united states the lead over. do you also mentioned in the, one of your recent articles that might an administration in the, in this, in their policy via crane and their sounds on the ukrainian conflict is trying to kill 2 birds with one stone undermine russia, as you said. but also we can, the berlin paris acts is that is to reduce the influence of those political forces in europe, who are in favor of europe's larger autonomy, strategic autonomy from the united states. how advanced is washington at this point in accomplishing these 2 goals? i think the by them, administration,

achieve the goal because the, the european power steel, strategical, donnie as has been put to sleep. nobody is talking about the distinction the damp with the rush. there are only speaking about this is for the best and the end of the coupling, which was very, very important. i was on the economy, the link between the european market and russia market has been gone for the energy, the coupling. it will be a matter of months of years, but it will take place. and as you know, the stream to is that, and then we have not to which some years ago was the fine the brain that by mach wrong, but now is more alive than ever before. and it seems like it is even

going to be a large with the entry of sweden and finland. so from my point of view by them administration has already achieved the goal. it's sure that americans are moving very fast in, in terms of that strategic objectives that i think it's only starting to join on the european how much they will have to pay for that in, you know, literal terms. you know, every single european citizen and, you know, add supermarket or at a gas station, but also in strategic and tactical terms. as the cost of these policies become more clear to the european people g think you know, those results that the americans have achieved for now? do you think they could be sustain? let's start from these. nothing left forever. so when a speaker about the by the administration and shipping the goal and speaking about

the short or the best of the mean that, that as for the show or to meet them, there can be no peace, no growth between noon on and the rush. this is more than sure about the cost of the long term sustainability. and this is very interesting. actually the mighty states hoped for, for lead bounce big 3 and the rest of the financial actions because of macaroni is a seen as an obstacle between the american agenda for europe and the european agenda for europe. because mac chrome is the mastermind of digital tongue micron. is the one ones right now, the only one apart from francis and all of them is the only one wants to dialogue with russia. so you know,

micron will be the measure obstacle in the years to come. even because micron closely tied to germany and also germany are in the shoals and the angle america, they hoped for a micron selection. because micro selection, we give life to the but he's battling axes and from the bet, but it's better. the next is the bands, the future fewer and of course, the future of europe, russia relations. can i ask a specifically about the economic sanctions? because you wrote the reason that these economic sanctions against moscow are both unprecedented and planned in advance. but i'm seeing more and more western analysts suggesting that the scale of the sections and specifically the effect on 3rd countries, how painful it is to the rest of the world. and maybe the biggest achilles heel.

and that it may actually come back to her in the united states. do you think that there are indeed so well plan, do you think the united states are calculated accurately the rest of the world's ability and willingness to carry the burden of the american decision? i did right, that they were very long, black and unprecedented. but i also did something they were mainly they were acted against the were being union. and only the 2nd level they were and they are aimed at the weakening rush. why? because the united states is a well aware of one fact, no one can expel russia from the global markets. you simply can't because russia is not the north korea rush, no rush, i is the major. do, sir,

and explore that of energy goes all over door. and secondly, as i said, the, the main goal, the main target was to, we can do european union. why? because the work union for the united states is a yes, a military ally, but the is also an economic rival. so the sink show regime was long planned, and the carefully started to weaken the european union. and indeed, the 1st target of the sanctions regime, as you know, was the norm to stream to so by then the, the war to bomb up with them. for many years, american political scientists criticized russia for using cruise power and extolled the american ability to exercise self or smart power. and when other players back to americans will not because they are forced to but

because they genuinely one till finally special for themselves. getting these images that are of fun of the global common good as an author or an advocate of universal. busy rules and values, it will change as a result of this whole ukrainian affair. in my opinion, doesn't matter. we do crane war because they're, if they show a crisis of the united states and not to be sold. i mean, not now, not in the years to come because they might, the states administration may the too many mistakes in the recent years. the 1st for firstly am i made sure that the water, you know, the world are an incredible impact not only in the rest of the world, but also on the west. for instance, i can't really get in,

but on the a huge there was a growth, an incredible growth of americans in the wake of the water because of the deaf office that i'm saying, because of the death of more monica, which was one of the best allies you know, and it was wildly killed. ok. so i think the image of the many states is undermine. they and their mind them south was undermined by themselves. and the outcome of this war, of the peace of the 3rd world warring pieces will not impact significantly on the image of the united states. on the contrary, if we look forward to all our eyes, the war in blocks. ok, well mr. pierre, wonder,

we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments with mm. in, 0, one main thing is important or not as an internationally speaking to that is that nations allowed to do anything. all the mazda races, the reason us, hey jim, it is so dangerous. is it done by the sovereignty of all the country? or as business and business is good, and that is the reality of what we are facing, which is fashion.

ah ah ah, well the negative was a 4th with emanuel pierre born and italian author and political consulting. mister p one before the break, we talked about this transition to a new world order. and russia gibbons is with the current system of american dominance are well known. i think that they're almost into logical in nature,

but you suggested that much of the global south also has a stake in this transition. what are the potential benefits in just roaming out? washington for the rest of the globe. excluding ration may benefits. let's only think about one thing, many of washington. so most trusted allies, historical ice like india. so your area in brazil and brazil is that it will light of its position because it did in america just as they have the side to side with russia. they need time to work to buy downs, call to arms against russia. why did so? because the warranty is also elite for them,

for they global aspiration. so they are citing with russia because we are here before the west against the rest and the west. although all the sign scenes, the end of the cold war, ignored the interest of the rest of the ward. this is why by them was surprised by their refusal. the refusal of their refusals coming from countries like sold your abbey and brazil. but many political, at least like me, when and surprise, the rest of the war is a watch these war. and these are saving with russia because the event while defeat the western not on military terms, but on diplomatic terms. and also on economic terms. because if you, if you,

if you don't join the sanctions regime against russia, you are fighting with russia implicitly. so the rest of the war deciding with russia hopefully to capitalize them when people are transition. you also suggested that ukraine is both and battlefield and any go shaping table for the already ongoing 3rd world war in peace is. that's a very interesting phrase. what exactly do you mean, and how's it different from the previous world wars when they speak about the war, the war in these, i'm using the concept which was popularized by frances, in the wake of the war. and it is what political scientists used to call great power competition. what the press as are name called 2 or 2. and it is different. ok, compare the to the previous war war because it is

a formal, the great powers are to war. but this war is called there and they are fighting across the globe by noon. so sometimes the color shows even worse. the reason there is a lot of 30 asthma and the new kind of weapons like cyber attacks and the cognitive wars. so it's much more different than in the past. i think you also mentioned that there is a, in one of the articles that there is a shift towards the periphery. is that the many of the facilities start at the very 1st and that got me and thinking about tolkien books in which protagonist 1st 5 for their own land. and then they come together to fly for the so called middle earth. and to some extent, ukraine has a son of gannon cherokee,

syria. they're all sort of middle lands, they are positioned arrive between, you know, other big players and potentially they have a lot to gain, but also a lot to lose. i think the case of again is done. it is a very good one. it's a very rich country in terms of mineral resources, it's allocated geographically in a very advantageous position, but for decades it's been ravaged by conflict. what do you think is this my strategy in this day and age for such middle earth powers? how should they get, conduct that policy to maximize the benefit and minimize the chances of conflict? well, the best strategy could be the following dialogue with everyone alignment with no one, but we are in the mean of the war war in peace.

so, no, great, we're not the russia will accept from the as far worse. a full non alignment. if i were to keep a, we're a because that's them. i would suggest a you won't be missing my counseling. okay, you are welcome. you want to use that money to put it. you're going to ask me, your money is not welcome, but it will be very r on the do train war as being the work or should moment of fall era out. it will war some the position or follow both just surgically position and countries like as you said, because i found tour kiosk down some, but not only them and it would be very hard, much hard. they're done today to be non aligned to the next truck. now we mentioned

a frances a couple of times and he's an interesting figure he's been involved in the ukranian conflict, diplomatically since it's very beginning of the site. some of that involvement was quite controversial. for example, a couple weeks ago he posed with a nationalistic credit nationalist. i would have been saying, you know, not a banner, but a few days ago, he made some very bold. and i would say politically incorrect statements about this war. saying that it was caused by, quote, need to barking at russia's door, which is that cause the kremlin to quote, react badly and then release the conflict. what's the significance of this statement like this coming from one of the worlds and one of the west, most prominent spiritual leaders. i cannot think about any other leader of the so called western world to say something along those lines. well,

i wasn't surprised at all. when they read the book statements, because the book now let's say is putting fun book francis, just like his predecessor, he's a fan of the movie. people are transition and they gave it to way for a normalization of the holy see russia relations. why need so just because they are no lead to the fact that the west can not be are increased again. the west is lost to the west and throughout the post christian era. and the holy sea is both a political and the spiritual power. i think it is the only purely spiritual power of the ward. and so the vatican thinks about politics economics,

but also about spirituality and francis, just like his predecessor. so in russia, the so called biblical catholic on a gas. the civilizational decline in favor of stand is a short traditional this is why the policy has tried in the recent years to approach to russia. and that has the spouse itself, from the west. for instance, the holy c back the russia operation in syria. the only c private lies relation with them. and it's where the holy c. uh huh. and the play. they're all doing the obama era, the signing of the nuclear deal. and this is why the holy see right now is trying to escalate the cry between the west and russia. and by means of those very strong declaration,

because they are very strong or francis center site to go to europe. the united states and russia, the holy see, wants peace and would like to be part of the, of the disagreement. you said that the you weren't so surprised by po francis's statement, but as i was reading american accounts of it and then how is it? i think there was a lot of this, me, a lot of anger sound questioning of the pope's cognitive ability and he's with them . do you think, washington, how i should use sanctions against the whole thing? because clearly what the pope is saying goes very vividly against what the biden administration and the rest of the west is. a trying to push as the as the truth. well, sanctions are the best, the tool of the mighty states foreign policy. so they could try to sanction the

book. i think the united states some are magically will for their why the distance with a policy that will not do it to openly. but they will the with, for the pro, this optimization agenda in the rest of the war. because against the background of the war, warning he's against the background of the west, russia confrontation of the seen american confrontation. there is another war taking place across the globe. and the is a the war inside the christianity. there is capitalism against to protest on sharks. the growth, the global growth of protestant sharps is mainly driven by the mighty states. so

the wreckage states might well or apply to the pulps a strong position if they were in russia, by for their funding and accelerating. sometimes a shop several countries. when mister pitt, they're gone, this is a very interesting conversation. unfortunately, we are out of time. but the only thing i would say is that regardless of which confession christian confessions they belong to, or even which religion would belong to. because many abrahamic religions have a very similar themes, as the bible says lasted the peacemakers, because they will be called children of god. let's hold both francis or whoever wants to make a contribution to resolving this conflict will succeed. but the time being thank you very much. for sharing your thoughts with us fully agree with you and thank you very much again for the invitation. and thank you for watching hope to syria again

on well, the part ah with mm ah, to what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race. his on offense. very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i those 3 how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk

with her headline stories. finland at 9 says it's formal decision to join nate, so i think the altered security lay out in europe, perhaps despite decades of military neutrality. and moscow was warnings of possible retaliatory measures to threads near its quarters. also ahead with these shelters, were used by the cranium military during the battles had the zodiac plat, as you can see, there are various medicines. here are t reports from a key bothell zone in the ukraine conflicts rebate neu forces from the la guns people's republic take control of a major chemical production facility. and.