hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle. the conflict in ukraine continues to pace the situation on the battlefield for the camp. regime is going from bad to worse. none the less, the u. s. and it's nato allies continue to pour in massive amounts of age and weapons. diplomacy is still not on the agenda. ah. to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess when these and in our slow here is a professor at the university of se or norway as well as author of the new book usa, phobia propaganda in international politics and in russia. on done, we have a row, is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap. all right, gentlemen, cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciated chris and also the big news over the last few days. one is that

we had defense secretary lloyd austin, call his counterpart is russian county or are sort of a shy group. and it was at the behest of the us side requesting a cease fire. so can you explain to me something if you're following western media, your brain is winning rushes, losing. but the winning side wants to have a ceasefire isn't usually the other way around. thoughts, my friend? oh yes, usually when you go in for a cease fire or trying to start up diplomacy to war, it's not going your way. but of course, the idea of having a c, r and i was also very problematic because it is not followed up with diplomatic suggestion, like a solution to the conflict. if you just talk to a sci fi without a solution. well, it almost seems like it is just a way to stall in order to get your reference to the front front lines. you can't one week say you're going to push $50000000000.00 worth of revenue to your credit. and the next, they say less of a c,

feel this with life. but i guess i see some changes on reasoning behind it because the main war in ukraine is where half of ukraine's main forces are the best forces that is and, and they have out the very strong frontline again in the south on their southern front line for the ukrainians have had to build fortifications over the past 8 years. the trenches, which is a push it holds against artillery and they have the juggling against the armored vehicles have been trying to storm it. and in the north you have a forest. you have the serious the river, so there's a lot of natural boundaries about what we've seen over the past week or 2 as being all week. so listen on russia. peers, there are a lot of these front lines because for the 1st 2 months they were down the defenses in the last 2 weeks, you see that came down from if you, they came into the mom and i mean now the surround, it was on the top of my f l, which is very significant in both russian ukraine to me the other recognize of

devastating disease. now the russians come up behind their front lines and create lots of pockets in the western media. it's not mentioned or this is a tactical withdrawal, which is kind of interesting. i like to know that the crane is conventional how horrible this is about. we can't do it in our media and, and also you see further to the west, which is closer to a cutting off the entire region, a huge interest coming up. we're from, from russia. so there's a, there's a, it looks like the front lines are collapsing, which is good. and then you can have a snowball effect then, because for every collapse of ukraine and defensive fries, of thousands of russian, and the soldiers who can then just move on. so it does look like we're, we're the next 2 weeks, we will see the critical point of this war. turning your exam, you know, i looked at to read out the, the, the call between the ministers and again,

you know, can you explain to me, i mean, the americans on behalf of ukrainians like ukrainians, are not in play anymore. it's the u. s. make calling all the shots. why? why didn't i lloyd austin say a cease fire and you know, maybe we'll talk about those 6400 sanctions. so, i mean, it's kind of like nothing for nothing. i mean, what kind you gambit is, this is almost the point of being juvenile. go ahead, i think, in my opinion, they want to repeat what they did was means to it means talking, talking, using just fine to reinforce the army. and you know, actually is it ask for a ceasefire. 2 days after the beginning of the operation. if you remember, give us for negotiation and they get the 1st news session after 4 days. because in my opinion, there is some people in kiff and especially in washington or in london, that perfectly understood that on the operative point of view,

russia as want to work for after the 1st week of fight. because it's a book completely older, economic for pre beating a any possibility of a fancied, i mean a coordinate offensive on the, on the plan. so i said, is it what did it do is the last 7 years? it's a trying to get, this is for you to reinforce, but in my opinion, i was a big problem for them is, are you because the, during the last 2 months is the promise to the my opponent just fighting it in the other style that there will be a free from the russian army because sense to meet or a variations, things to i room a by the parisian, thanks to negotiation things to because the, you know, the 1st time in the story of war that people were using to, we're asking to be if i created, you know, sort country, but you know, it's very,

very, it's not just a joke is very important because the, what the plan of care is to is to organize my, your point everywhere in the grand territory in the, in this a chance. and soon in newport because it is a part of it, but it will work if people inside the fortress a believes that there will be a possibility to like you to retreat or to win the war. and then when russia will take all the equipment is dead or alive in the other style, it will be the evidence for every i think. also, it's very important to point out for our viewers is that there's a great deal of interest, particularly on the russian side is who are these people? what, what nationalities are they? what are they? are individuals in nature, uniforms, and other things that will be very, very curious to find out about this because mary overall was very important to the,

to the ukrainian slash nato side. because that was supposed to be the bastion that would keep us out. and that is not the case here, glen, i mean, that's another thing. you know, it's all these things in play here. we knew we've talked about it many times. so you have this massive, massive a package, you know, a 6 times the, the in the military budget of ukraine before the conflict started. almost the same size is a russian, russian annual military budget. so you have and then we have rand paul, thank goodness, basically getting some brakes on here. but i mean, i'm a massive of spending bill and then a cease fire. i mean it does the left hand know what the right hand is doing here. go ahead. no, right, so it doesn't seem compatible because again, only 2 weeks ago. so austin, as well as a british pound, are going out saying that the goal of this, this is not

a propeller. russian spot, you know, full victory take back old territories including crimea privately. and also break the back of russia weakening and significant place on the project. and of course, in the years to come, i mean this is, this is a very extreme objective to set. and then for the and to pumping all these weapons and then to call asking for a c spy. it does seem, it doesn't seem likely, but also i think that's a good reason why it doesn't seem very sincere. this proposal for us is far enough for an actual to in the war because again, it is not supplemented with some suggestion or how to end the work, then it doesn't work. and again, us also the training me their concerns, the british and americans, they, you know, they came in and convinced ukrainians to abandon negotiations with the russians in the, you know, they were making, you know, they were, they were still far apart, but they were making it moving towards some kind of a compromise,

we're expecting some concession to spend the war. but again, i think, you know, to understand a lot of this, i think it's important to realize that this is a large extent, a proxy or, i mean, even if ukraine is tomorrow, would say, listen, i will, will give everything between them. boston have a song that this is not acceptable to the americans again for 20 years now. america and its eyes on your credit is invested millions of dollars. this black sea coast is a key objective and you know, it doesn't matter. ukrainians wouldn't want it. this is this, i'm sometimes trying to compare, tell people that, you know, if it stays investing billions of dollars is not to promote democracy or human rights. they do have strategic objectives. mean this is not a conspiracy there. so this is not just us, but these are all states, behavioral states, how strategic objective they communicate them in the language or values that how to

get to work. it's just, it's, it's stronger. it's student is very into the, at the, in the negotiations and assemble have already been mentioned, you know, and it's very interesting exactly how you know, they have to maybe give, put in an off ramp. give him an out, you know, i mean they, they believe their own propaganda actually. ok. because the way i look at it, you've already brought up of the minsk accords here. why should rush it? leave any politician in the west when it comes to ukraine. it's been one, lie, one line after another. ok, and so on my siege, the way i assess it as it rushes, always been on its own timeline and it will do, it will decide when the conflict is over in conflict to be over on its terms. what do you say? i guess, i guess in washington in london, the perfectly understand that russia won't stop and actually put in change is a war and during the, on a 22 off approval. so it's no more question off the bus. and crew may,

it's question of controlling all the source of the coast, and in my opinion, the next step. as soon as the battle in don't bus will be finished or putting will already the ministry of defense will announce the new targets. and in my opinion, it would be more to read or you couldn't territory or the stuff for just saw in my opinion at this time the west is no, no, i can't understand what, what they can do to, to, to find, to find a solution in a request, it's just it's just i guess i should rush. oh, they've already done that day. yeah. because i, you know, there is, there is a blitzkrieg lost. i mean the west, the last, the economic with it's creed as their last strongly and each day it showed that

it's worse and worse than they can imagine. and in front of them, i mean the west. there is a crisis concerning foods in san antonio, the west, but all the world and russia is one of the actor that comes out of this crisis. so in front of the west, there is, they're going to lose a war. the doing to face a crisis. i, we, we never saw for a long time, and there is a, it's a no. so is asking for a $65.00. it's a. well, i mean, it seems very obvious to me. in retrospect, is that the russians had long play on this. they look at every single possible contingency because j. p. morgan came out with that desk know to its investors and then the russian economy is doing more or less. okay. you may have a sharper session, but it really cover from an in by 2024 back to the back to business as usual, or a gentleman. i'm going to jump in here. we're, we're going to go to a short break. and after lunch break will,

can you know our discussion on some real in stay ah ah ah ah, the 1st time in history, i mean time country's culture has been canceled to the very modern weapon. cancel culture. really desperate, wonderful language cecile mala. so when you get just me sitting there with the phrase now, particularly for us to counseling russian culture, yet them know what to create the fuel because it's convenient, my fuel, which will be all that is china, will fill out that the most of the separation of on them, e, them we what rushes created over the past 1500 years. there's no question

actually condemned, reviled and reject it. just sort of like you said, it's funny at the middle of brown. there's a lot closer. i want to hold college any time. i just had a little small list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now includes, does dance gauge sikowski shostakovich. get that? i need to hear those quick left. but yes, she says that with the www obama lee. you want to add a little bit more ah, with

ah, well, the magic cross stock were all things considered. i'm peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah, let's go back to also glen. look, let's talk about what nobody in western media wants to talk about either because they don't have the imagination or they don't have the guts to face reality. but this whole conflict is really all been about russia, security goals and demands, you know, where people can focus in on the battlefield. and i'm amazed with your knowledge of all the geography at about all. it's really quite impressive. but at the end of the day, because russia had put forth ideas about reworking european security architecture,

got completely blown off by washington and london in brussels. and then now rush is going through the process of making for the force of arms and its own arguments. and i would even say using international law to create its own conditions for european security. the west is not prepared for this at all. are they? no, no, no, not at all. and i think that this is the key problem ahead of us because that for this war conflict to really stop when they, we, we, we, we do need to have a settlement on european security because again, this all goes back to the, to the concept of the problem the european security and we delayed it and escalated the whole way. keep in mind that this whole began after we're in the west, withdrew from all this pan european security agreements and just said, is that removing the binding lines of europe, we're just going to move them to the east. the respective all academics,

politician and intelligence people said that this will probably to warrant. and again, this is what happened in your credit. and they had a government to commit themselves to the child, the other we always say a russian. but he said he went to law, not joining in the military alliance. i mean, it's either russian leg or american. but then when the rest back to toppling or you know, in the course of 2014, we removed the, then the neutrality. unless you know the cia director william burns, you're going to want in 2008 if this would ever happen. and need to membership would be a possibility. it will probably be a civil war. and you argue that the russians will feel compelled and hero, not me. so just make it clear that the russian would feel compelled to going there wouldn't want to embed, but they would feel compelled to do so to protect the people and on boss, but also to prevent me from coming to the border. this is not the normative argument. from my perspective saying, what is right, i'm just saying this is what even the americans talk and tell us people are

recognized. so. so my, my whole point is that we have to deal with the question of neutrality and european security. and again, this is what the russians also when they 1st didn't pay the storm towards q in leaving their supply lines are very open exposing them and they want to pressure your grant. they want to think about the issue. ready and coming from charlotte, and again, america is a good, a skip snowballing into a bigger, bigger or a, but at some point we do have to deal with this issue is going to the beginning. what are we going to do about european security? this idea we have in europe as long as we put a bigger gun, closer and closer to russia, said this is the recipe for security. i think we have to rethink some of this. doesn't mean we can still call them the russian or we can do other one. we do have to recognize the mental problems of all this. so i, i don't see it,

i don't see it. that's not the problem isn't rush, it's fine right now is fighting a, a military camp named the west is fighting some kind of ideological one. it has no room for bearing on what the reality whatsoever. let me i want to cite. we change the topic vinland and sweden joining the alliance. i mean, i'm completely dumbfounded by this sweden and then we have done very well with the trial. and now they want to stabilize their neighborhood by taking a side, by joining nato. they are recognizing rush. it is an enemy country. they, for decades, they couldn't, i don't know. we have no enemies, we're just, you know, projecting security was going on right now. that makes it definitively clear. those 2 countries they want to join nato, they deem russia is an enemy rush will have every right you no concerning a person is not the very original because it is basically known that the military

in the push for that during the last 70 years, we can say so at least as we get what they want and it won't change anything because actually trade on is not so close to russia. the finan. i'm quite to some point and by finally, because as you say, i'm not going to win. so in my opinion, is the question of the, of the current elite in this country. but i'm not sure that it will be so popular in the, in the finish population. and so let's see what happened. and let's see if we're going to will agree to let them know because he's of a surprising guy, actually a what we had before. we talked numerous times in december, january, and february for the conflict. and just need to relate. the russian side made it very clear that if their demands are not met, that they would re a reply with military technical response. they've already said that now when it

comes to sweden and finland, does anybody understand the, the causality here in the ukraine. dumbass thing cannot be resolved, there will be military technical reaction. they said this again now when it comes to sweden and finland, that should tell everybody everything about what's going on and they are not members of nato. at this point. i'm not sure that the fish and the finish population will be happy to know that know, since know the size will be in the direction of the country. and of course i just said glen. it's very important to rebuild, but not only for a security system in europe, but in the world. because actually the 2nd phase of the united is on the was it allied? it should look as well, have been in the us and they refuse to put to condemn the origin of variation in

the final acts of the meetings are just up and let me go to glen on this here, glen, russia and europe, their geographical location. so they're not going anywhere. ok, they are neighbors and not will never change. ok. so where do we move forward here? i mean, they, i mean, is it possible when this is when we have the end of this conflict here? russia presents it's ultimatums because it's in a position to do that. how do we move beyond that, or is, are we just going to be in this kind of frozen environment for our generation? go ahead on a discussion which you have and this is, this is my criticism. if, if this is our plan in europe or in, or just continue to push it closer to russian voters and say, just bring security at least have some discussions on it. but i don't see anything

based on going back to that in a swedish, sweden joining nato. it's, it's quite extraordinary that does not have any progress in 80 years. almost on has been a success story. i've been being neutral and now they're going to join them in my, my, my main question was why is the big rush this know the big debates being hacked or you know, no referendums, nothing like this. and obviously now during this conflict, emotions are running high. so there's a lot of paranoia about that hysteria. so, so right now, you know, you have a lot of people who want to join it and i think they just want ok, let's get this done. now we have on our side, why not discuss this what this is actually mean for security and, and wait for things to calm down before we rush before the russian. it's amazing because again, when you, when you see the media coverage as well, the need to cover some main line is a look if you want to keep it away. and the chief, the opposite. now we're going to come into the similar but, you know,

is the point of this alliance time security, or is it to robert into space? it just, it seems so self, self destructive or, and also the implicit aspect is if we recognize that russia went into ukraine to prevent paper expansionism. and then we're going to spend the winter in a very calm area during the entire cold war. exactly, because there wasn't any presence here in sweden were neutral norway, we didn't have any american troops on our soil. now we do have american troops for military bases, which can be used against the russians. and are you going to assume in sweden, i mean can name is going to be a key northern front line against russia. and again, this is good for power project. sure, so good for security. and i think we need to go and have these actual discussions, but we're not having them at the moment. and we're having this debates, whether or not we're running something in space, it's very, very dangerous. and, and,

and exactly what we've learned from this. i mean with finland in sweden, it's all, keep in mind that turkey does have a vote on and they, he has issues with video and enter d and they're supportive the kurds and you have another complicated layer there. so it's not a done deal knowing everyone, he wants something for something and everything is the bizarre for him. so we have to put that on the side here. but you know what, what this is finland and sweden in the alliance. it makes very clear that this isn't a ukraine problem. it's a rushing versus, you know, nato, nato versus russia, that it becomes very clear because you crane the way the u. s. in its allies are treating ukraine. they want this conflict to go on to the last ukranian, i mean with allies like that. ok, you neutrality could be the possible things to happen to you and the way things stand. now, if there is a neutral ukraine, it's going to be kind of small. don't you think?

go ahead. oh, yes, of course i would. you let me put in change on the 22 of april? no, we're talking about never actually. and in my opinion, again after the button and done bus, if, if, if this is a sponsor, don't understand the exact situation where they are. so we will, we will hear new claim, new requests from the russian part and, and what will stay as a grain. i'm not sure it will be so important to have them 12, not 12, because it will be very short if we were smaller and glen this last 30 seconds to you. and it looks to me that if there's some state of view crane, which is very much in the cards right now, that will just be kind of a ward of a. uh you do take, take care of, you know, like a kind of a cost of paying,

you know, just a, a very small, very poor place that they're going to have to my take on is their responsibility last 2015 so i can see it when i agree, and i think this has been the main cause. i'm on a suffering all this because they were, your parents been put in the middle. and we were trying to decide you dividing lines from europe and being torn from both sides and suffering greatly because of this. so hopefully that should be a point of departure and discussion. how can we, can we stabilize your for the benefit to be a great way to end this program in a positive note with a very tragic situation. that's all the time we have when i think my guess and i'll slow in ross of on down and i want to thank you for watching is here to see you next time. remember cross blue. oh, a 1st time in history,

an entire country's culture has been cancelled. the very modern weapon cancelled culture. really desert wonderful. i wish i feel my love. so when you get just me sitting there with the phrase now particularly refers to counseling russian culture yet them know what secret the few orders that i give to william, i was sure what will be your child will fill out that the most of the separate shawanda eat them, we what rushes created over the past 1500 years. now question, harshly condemned, reviled and rejected. his sort of like a funny at the will of bramble. there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. thank you said a little short list. joining total condemnation, gross daily, and now includes does dance gauge to cascade,

shostakovich get that i need to. yeah. cool, cool, left, but yeah, she says that with the time, will you do obama lee? you're not going to do that a little bit more. ah ah ah

ah what you will she is still a barracuda or a supposedly reco gracie you. but you will see i need to know i was here to was in douglas goodies for those to go get res issue and it's brought the global muscles. alicia menu me 0 is just the concern of what you do at the bull cheese to break things to store. but i want to show the biological experiment on allied soldiers employ beloget, human should use be of the american italian. your support is also dinah casteel, unique, combined with .