of his quote, very good friend valerie, give in his coal, which were nouns, question practices, though von and lexus were so i was the 1st to suspend russian artist 2, a closely associated with russian propaganda. and despite the fact that he is a very good friend of mine, my suspended the orchestra director, valerie good, yes. and this was despite the fact that we have known each other for 35 years that i knew i also suspended, not pressing on the tread co and some ballet dancers who are very close to the regime. this is outrageous. i think this has no place in culture whatsoever. exactly, because we can only book classical music. i know you talk about wedding marrow. it's the most non while and, you know, unlike it wouldn't seem tomorrow or theater or for instance it's, it's non while and we can express while it's word neutral. you know, music starts where he works, ends. and we cannot do much in, or we can say that we're pro piece where to give something,

but all we can do is play or sin. and where is the steam with director of water and or better serve up heat white people in groups according to what they see. and i also had the experience, i could live const conciliation, listen from what a europe 1st will also be in the european weeks. and after i perform it on for people with disburse and wrote to me unfortunately, because you perform with on such a day in my renewal, it means you actually support which is aggression just for both those who have fallen for the years on take that well, the chest federation director general meal, who told skis were billed to the to that he initiated the ban on russian ground. me also get honey. i can more on the story on the website. all the stuff comes me money. thank you for joining us here on the international will be back at the top of the related the

news . ah ah, ah ah ah ah ah ah

ah. hello and welcome to cross out. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, is the west sleep walking us all into world war 3. it sure looks like it continued nato expansion eastward, massive military aid for ukraine's and the drive to destroy russia's economy, all point to a direct military conflict with moscow that anyone vote for this cross stocking the european war, i'm joined by my guess ira flounders in jersey city, she is a co director of international action center in tasmania. we have had see he is a conflict consultant in a retired u. s. foreign service officer and in geneva we have alfred desires. he is

a former you an independent expert on international order and author of the upcoming book, countering mainstream narratives, fake news, fake law, and fake freedom or a crosswalk rules in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want and i always appreciate it. oh alfred, let me go to you 1st in in geneva. i everything i said in my introduction is true and i, i, and with the question, did anybody vote for this? because we seemed to be going in a direction that you, there's no stopping, no one's putting the foot on the brake. most a disturbing of all, um, nato seems to have no interest in ending the conflict in ukraine's actually just the reverse. one of the reasons why this conflict came about and i have come across a wide array of opinions about it, which is perfectly fine. i'm open to debate, but it is, was nato expansion was one of the reasons why russia acted the way did. and now nato expansion is again on the agenda here. i'd like to point out to our view, years before february 24th, russia said it would react with military technical re

a reaction that's still on the cards here. ok. the, the, the, the nest, the necessity to have security in europe is not being discussed. is matter fact it's being discarded as a long, long question from for me, go ahead. alfred. well, jordan cannon, the father of the marshall plan, henry kissinger, jack mack law, all warning about the dangers of expanding nato. now it is profoundly on bill craddick to have been merlin, sweden as for membership in may, without conducting a why consultation over population because it does have consequences. making sure that the population understands the implications and then having a referendum i am both a citizen and

a switch citizen. and here and we just had 4 different referenda last sunday. somebody 15 of may and i have not missed a single referendum since i'm a citizen. and back in 2002 even switched membership in the united nations curriculum was not a member of the united states. it was broke the rope and just made with somewhat more than a majority or something as important as joining a military organization, the military organization. that if you know the judgment of the number, you don't know if you know the actual of the number of article 9 or the longer an agreement of 8 august 945. there's

a concept over criminal organization and buddhist things. and the sweet realize that they are actually joining an organization that because of its history of aggression, war crimes, crimes against humanity in your law, the down is done and rock in the syria, et cetera, very easily could be classed in this special category of criminal. okay. let me, let me, let me go to sarah and jersey city. i mean, not only is a nato expansion in the card still within when in sweden, just in the last new cycle the american officials have said that ukraine does not even may not even have to go through a, a induction process. it could be just be made, a member of nato would be breaking all of nato's own rules. i mean, you know,

they call, they constantly talk about the rule of law and rules based order, but they break their own rules all the time. obviously ukraine has a territorial conflict with russia. ok, and so what they're doing is they're actually wanting be there. the in fact, they want the lines to go into all out with russia because ukraine and russia obviously have a military complex. but no one is talking about this in a logical fashion in the west. go ahead, sarah. well, 1st of all, ukraine already is a de facto member care of nick, a u. s. commandant military machine. that's really what it is, and nato ukraine for a long time. has it's for gates have been involved in the war in iraq, in afghanistan, in all kinds of military war maneuvers. and there were thousands of nato trainers advisors as they're called in the ukraine. there was a equipment just pouring ins really since 2014, i didn't just begin so as

a de facto member not, not voted anywhere even by the member countries. ukraine is very much in nato, and it's the whole purpose of nato was to expand to the very borders of russia to threaten russia. that's been its purpose from day one. and it was the reason that it expanded, ever since the war in yugoslavia through the balkans, through the countries of eastern europe right to the borders. and it's the reason to day without any vote, no democracy about it. the expansion of or the inclusion of finland. and sweden is being considered finland a country of a 5000000 people, right? pledge to neutrality since world war 2, who never pay the price for what they did in world war 2. if they pledged to remain neutral. and we see that that's just gone by the board. so every step of the way,

none of this is democratic for the countries involved. it's certainly not for here in the u. s. where the overwhelming with a majority of the people are against war, and biden hasn't delivered on any of the promises he made. no turn any of it. what are they unfortunately during the cold war? you know stephen cohen, god bless his soul. we left this too soon because he was such a great thinker in great person actually to and you know, he prophesies as he said, that the war was, would be inevitable. with them. we continued nato expansion. and one of the great things he said is that during the cold war, which he chronicled very well, he said, at least the western leadership put themselves in the shoes of the kremlin. you know, and so if let's put the artist or feet in the shoes of the kremlin right now, if there's a conflict, then ukraine, one of the antecedents was nato expansion. and now to other countries. ben went and sweden want to join. i mean, how the russians, obviously this is a, is a aggressive threat,

but no one gives that angle in western media. go ahead 10 peers. i can't recall a campaign of demon i'd ation as thorough knowing as the current one against russia in western media. and i want to, i want to take a minute and explain my position here. if i may, i was 26 years. the us diplomat. i spent more than half my career working with or at nato. so i'm intimately familiar with the institution and it's byways. and it's quirks. now add to a retired diplomat. i'm a great believer in winston churchill phrase that george saw as always, better than war war. and for that reason alone, i do not condone russia's operations in ukraine, but given the level of provocation, especially the hypocrisy that nato is displayed. i certainly understand them. first, zelinski goes the unit security conference in february and talks about rolling back ukraine decision to get rid of nuclear weapons. second,

despite the fact checks that period was your media, us funded by a labs in ukraine are a reality and have been since the nunn lugar cooperative threat reduction program went into effect 30 years ago. now. 30 years ago, it might have made sense for nato. the us and western countries to help former soviet states like ukraine, to do away with this w. m. d stockpile. but what those labs are still doing in operations 30 years later, beggars the imagination, you know, you know, what ukraine has done is they've had to ukraine the russia, the same exact excuse that the u. s. senate deadlines used to invade iraq in 2003, which is w. m d counterproliferation. now point 3, there's an ongoing military humanitarian crisis in the bass has been for years now . people are beginning. sheldon killed willy nilly without almost any reporting in

the western media. but this is also the same exact excuse that nato used in 1999 yet to conduct a world coast about humanitarian intervention. so if it's good enough for bill clinton and 99, and it's good enough for w in 2003. why isn't it's somehow good enough for president to exercise these same authorities in 2022? well, i mean, i'm glad to bring that up because alfred, i mean, we've, you know, with essentially, with these kind of low octane thinkers in the west. you know, i mean, they're all over the place, liz trust, you know, anthony blink and all of these people here, they would, they, they, they want to know they were on some kind of war footing. well, the russians might actually take the same attitude as well. i mean, how is it that nancy pelosi can waltz around the center of kev during a military conflict with russia. ok, because the russians are not targeting it. they're not interested in it at all. but at one point they might go ahead alfred. well,

you address the issue or rules based international order, you address blinkin and binding. now here it is, we have it the united nations charter and want has made on what has the united states done. we have not only violated articles $1.00 and $2.00 of the charter. we violated the spirit over the charter, not only the letter article 2 paragraph 3 of the tri requires that we negotiate in good faith right now has been negotiating, trying to reach some sort of a peaceful solution to redone by the problem. since the good cause against the democratically elected call, which annual cray, which we call finance. but we know from the glory i'm now a here she'll be roget, 88 years old,

seeing better or hankle and lindsey violate remains. agreement wanted to systematically. and then in december, last putting up puts on the table to moderate trees, which are then dismissed by oldenburg and biden. and i have to many are what we have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break will continue our discussion of the european war state was our team use the the ah,

with ah, ah ah,

welcome back across. like were all things considered on peter level to remind you were discussing the european war? ah ok, let's go back to sara. in jersey city, there seems to only be one gear in play here in this to move forward with a conflict. and what is i find so very peculiar is number one. what is winning mean in this conflict? i mean, i don't even wanna even go down that path. i mean, i think these people have no idea of the dangers that they're creating. number 2, the, even at this stage of the conflict that should have never happened in the 1st place . i'm western publics are and, and consumers are being affected. i like, you know, we've talked about on this program and the, the conflict in iraq and syria and libby and all that. well, that really didn't affect the western citizenry very, very much. this is beginning to really a bomb pinch,

a lot of people here and there seems to be no easing down and even willing to sit down to talk. i mean, we update the, we have the french, the, the italians and the germans are, you know, way we should talk about negotiations while pushing more war sanctions will. that's not how negotiations work. so as a sarah, i mean this is why i'm so depressed and worried is that they think something is winnable. i don't know what that means because that could entail in i elation of everyone. go ahead sir. well, what does winning mean to you as strategists and war planners? it really means candidate greg the relations the trade relations. he economic exchanges between the e u, specially germany and russia. could they do this through war and the demand for sanctions? we shouldn't forget that biden promised nuclear war if, if the sanctions weren't voted, said it's world war 3 or it's sanctions. so from the very beginning,

it's been how to break the economic relations and it has come back and hit with a vengeance on the countries of the e. u. here in the u. s. globally, in terms of famine, literally in africa, when you have spiraling inflation, raises an energy cost. it is a war that has already reduced ukraine from the most prosperous country at the time of the division of the soviet union. the most prosperous of the republics to today, the poorest country in europe. and the war is now making the e, you, they're really paying the price as they say, folks in britain have to choose between heating and eating. now, how has russia fought this war? they fought it very differently from the u. s. in the u. s. from day one, iraq afghanistan, anywhere in the world. they knock out the water,

the sanitation sewage, the food warehouses, the entrance, all the communication systems, day one, and they advertise it, they push it out. the hospitals, the medical center, that's what's destroyed. that's not what's happened in the ukraine. there. the bakeries were still open in kiev internet. that's how world politicians from pelosi, you folks are all able to visit. jeff, isn't that unusual in a war? but russia is fighting us in a very different way, very much against than not c. fascists forces that have been organized right within the don. it's so we should see the differences in how the wars fought, the aims in it and, and the u. s. aims are, which are to completely use ukraine as upon in order to ensnare russia in a war that they want to have you and it's in interest. and they are trying to reach

a negotiated solution to end this war with the end of the nazi domination and firing within east ukraine. it would take care what, you know, i guess the, you know, i agree with much of what sarah said, you mean the prize is actually had gemini in europe, this, it, because the ever since the end of the cold war will actually even during the cold war, and he kind of german soviet slash, russian reproach, mouths with something the washington always worried about. that's why they always have social democrats in germany, just like they have sergeant schultz now in germany. but you know, what, what is the price of europe? if there's productivity goes down, unemployment goes up, mean you, a social infrastructure is destroyed. i mean, it's kind of a cheap 3rd prize ribbon, isn't it? i mean, just to have had gemini and you punish russia. well, russia can look elsewhere. ok, it, right, rushes relate. existence doesn't,

isn't dependent on its relationship with europe. go ahead. ted. peter, you're being grossly unfair there and you're asking me to sort of explain by nomics and it's a mystery to me. i don't know if anyone's capable of explaining what, what that man is up to you other than printing money at lightspeed in the process. he can destroy europe's economy as well. and possibly, you know, from it maybe maybe his vision is, is smoking economic ruin from the atlantic to the urls? i'm not sure. but seriously, we've got a situation where sweden is looking at abandoning its traditional you know, it's a distance from any war stance like switzerland as a non line country, even in europe. and it's just, it's looking, it's throwing that away. finland has been neutral, aggressively neutral, ever since the end of world war 2, they're not stupid. they were right on the border with the soviet union. they

wanted peace. they didn't want to be any part of a political military alliance. it's a lot more military political and now in the current situation, because we've got this focus on, you know, the democratic pure haven of ukraine, and never mind that it's a sending criminal enterprise and has been for a long time. you know, we're all going don't hope for the war for no apparent reason, but for that matter native shouldn't exist. so yeah, you know, we're talking about expanding. that hasn't had a reason to exist since 991. yeah, i've always thought i found, you know, biden's policy. so a biden who ran the ukraine desk during the obama administration and where his son worked at barithium, the u. s. is sending money to people that paid people like his son. it's very kind of peculiar relationship. alford was obviously we were running out of time here is

that nato really kind of pushing to see if they can test article 5. it seems like a game of chicken here. ok. and but, you know, if they want to push article 5, so let's say something happens. you know, there's a missile system that the u. s. puts into finland. russia reacts, and then they have invoke article 5, and then they have their friend in turkey. air on says, i'm not involved in this. ok, then, the entire midst of article 5 of the nato treaty is blown up your thoughts? well, i think that i also said there is no reason for natal nato and its claim of the full spectrum domain. and it's a crime against humanity in itself. it is a right incompatible with the un trotter article to power for all the charter through him. it's not only the use of force what it prepares,

the correct over use of force. and as coke trenches very correctly said on the 3rd of may, may pose barking at the door of russian may don't actually provoke this tragedy. and that has been carried by the mainstream media name for media is complicit in this tragedy because they have been actually conducting propaganda for war and demonizing. the enemy, by the way, contrary to article 20 of the international covenant on civil and political rights that the united states and united kingdom and france and germany are all parties to okay, okay, let me, let me go to sarah here in jersey. see, sarah, i mean, on this program um from december 17th,

all the way up to the conflict on february 24th, almost every single program i made on those 2 proposals that the russians had at one to nato one to the united states. and of course, we all know the reaction. now, i mean, these are not good faith actors. i mean those were good faith. you can call them ultimatums if you want. look fine. ok. but there was a point of reference. i mean, i did, i, you know, in and then you know, when i look at, you know, the, the, the, the a, we have a call for a, a ceasefire by a def ed secretary law lloyd austin. i mean, well, i wouldn't believe any. i wouldn't believe i wouldn't, but i would probably believe a used car salesman more than i would believe the defense secretary right now. i mean, this is really, it's almost impossible. even the wind is conflict out because you don't know who is you who to talk to. and though the people that you might talk to aren't good faith actors. this was on by the west. go ahead. this is about money, about super profits and everything else has flown out the window including bill back better in the us, 40000000000 dollars in the last,

the congressional appropriation along with all the money. it was already flowing in 1000000000 here, 3000000000 there. so much of it goes missing, as we well know in every us war. literally, it's delivered on the tarmac and it's no longer there. now, what was the war meant to do along with the super profits that come from war? because the u. s. economy is 1st and foremost, based on war, on endless war, on super profits to the military industries. but it was also because german investment in russia was 10 times the u. s. investment in russia. their trade with russia. 10 times what us trade was, their german trade with the u. s. so how does c u. s. break this? turn it around, smash and they are willing to smash the e, you absolutely. who is both a competitor and an ally,

and use the nato military machine to do it. so there, sir, let me, let me jump in here. i want to give to the last word here that i'm, that the cynic in me says. the pentagon and the military industrial complex, they need a replacement for the afghan griffith and, and the ukraine is the substitute for the griff, they lost in afghanistan, 40 seconds, go ahead. i absolutely agree, but i want to make one quick point about nato peter, which is that it does operate by consensus. and it may seem like bob just lip service. but it is a fact that if on korea wants to break consensus on, for example, sweden and finland joining the alliance, they can do so and no one can stop ebay. ted. wow, wow, we have the time, ted. well, i have the time. hang on by that. why was it we are they don't you think that everyone is just wants to make a deal? that's what he always does. that's it. yeah, of course. let's make a deal and he's going to do one of the most favorite terms. you can the most

favorable terms he can buy extorting the whole alliance. ok, well, you know, extortion black veil. all these things are associated with nato. here as all the time we have our, i want to thank my guest in jersey city, geneva, an intense media, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. remember cross top roles. ah, ah, a wrong one, i just don't you have to fill out the theme because the applicant and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves willing to part, we choose to look for common ground. ah

ah, turkey has reportedly blogs, finland, and sweden from joining nato after the nordic countries handed in that official applications. concord demands the handover. what 8 calls terrorist groups have that hosted by helsinki and thought code. almost a 1000 ukrainian troops have surrendered at the as of stone factory in the dorm by city of mario pope with captured neo nazis from the eyes of battalion due to stand trial for war cries ah, the u. s. e. there is some of it. sanctions against venezuela's energy sector as washington seeks to secure additional oil imports despite its long run and differences with caracas.