on those items with the stock and just look up, some of natalie, a muscle is running noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on acknowledged to me as priscilla. mamma cooked as gosh sit suddenly tim cut the rope to his ashley of dc. wanted to buy 50 bits of pieces, gross dancing company. if the bubbles wonder, no, please. it's said of course jason did. did he but not, not looking for the chima bryanston that were only the ride subsidy, mika mika, that voice is how i feel a little favor resident here. so l great. lisa have that ah, ah ah

hello and welcome to cross that were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle is the west sleep walking us all into world war 3. it sure looks like it continued nato expansion eastward, massive military aid for ukraine's and the drive to destroy russia's economy all point to a direct military conflict with moscow. did any one vote for this? ah, cross stocking the european war, i'm joined by my guess, ira flounders and jersey city. she is a co director of international action center in tasmania. we have had see he is a conflict consultant any retired u. s. foreign service officer and in geneva we have alfred desires. he is a former you an independent expert on international order, an author of the upcoming book, countering mainstream narratives, fake news, fake law, and fake freedom,

or across up rules in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want and i always appreciate it. alfred let me go to you 1st in geneva. i everything i said in my introduction is true and i and i, and with a question, did anybody vote for this? because we seem to be going in a direction that you, there's no stopping, no one's putting the foot on the brake. most a disturbing of all, um, nato seems to have no interest in ending the conflict in ukraine. actually just the reverse. one of the reasons why this conflict came about and i have come across a wide array of opinions about it, which is perfectly fine. i'm open to debate, but it is, was nato expansion was one of the reasons why russia acted the way did. and now nato expansion is again on the agenda here. i'd like to point out to our viewers before february 24th. russia said it would react with military technical reaction that still i on the card sir. okay. the, the, the, the nest, the necessity to have security in europe is not being discussed as matter fact.

it's being discarded. that's a long, long question from for me. go ahead. alfred. well, jordan cannon, the father of the marshall plan, henry kissinger, jack mac's law, all warn about the dangers of expanding nato. now it is profoundly on bill craddick to have been merlin, sweden as for membership in nato, without conducting a wide consultation of population because it does have consequences. making sure that the population understands the implications and then having a referendum i am both a citizen and a switch citizen. and here in switzerland we just had 4 different referenda last sunday, some 15 of may. and i have not missed the single referendum

since i'm a citizen. and back in 2002 even switched membership in the united nations. richmond was not a member. we was put the rope and a just made with somewhat more than a majority. but something as important as joining a military organization, the military organization. that if you know the judgment of the number, you don't know if you know the actual of the number of article 9 or the longer an agreement of 8 august 945. there's the concept over criminal organization. and buddha, themes and the swedes realize that they are actually joining an organization that

because of its history of aggression, war crimes, crimes against humanity in your bus law, the dawn is done and rock in libya in syria, et cetera. very easily could be classed in this special category of criminal. okay, let me, let me, let me, let me go to sarah and jersey city. i mean, not only is nato expansion and the card still with been when in sweden, just in the last new cycle. the american officials have said that ukraine does not even may not even have to go through a, a induction process. it could be just, we made a member of nato, would be breaking all of nato's own rules. i mean, you know, they come, they constantly talk about the rule of law and rules based order, but they break their own rules all the time. obviously ukraine has a territorial conflict with russia. ok. and so what they're doing is they're

actually wanting, be there, the, in fact, they want the lines to go into all out with russia because ukraine and russia obviously have a military conflict. but no one is talking about this in a logical fashion in the west. go ahead, sarah. well, 1st of all, ukraine already is a de facto member care of nick, a u. s. command and military machine. that's really what it is, and nato ukraine for a long time. has it's for gates have been involved in the war in iraq, in afghanistan, in all kinds of military war maneuvers and the, with thousands of nato trainers advisors as they're called in the ukraine. there was a equipment just pouring ins really since 2014, i didn't just begin so as a de facto member not, not voted anywhere even by the member countries. ukraine is very much in nato,

and it's the whole purpose of nato was to expand to the very borders of russia to threaten russia. that's been its purpose from day one. and it was the reason that it expanded, ever since the war in yugoslavia through the balkans, through the countries of eastern europe right to the borders. and it's the reason today without any vote, no democracy about it. the expansion of or the inclusion of finland and sweden is being considered finland a country of a 5000000 people. write a pledge to neutrality since world war 2 who never pay the price for what they did in world war $2.00. if they pledged to remain neutral and we see that that's just gone by the board. so every step of the way, none of this is democratic for the countries involved. it's certainly not for here in the u. s. where the overwhelming or the majority of the people are against war, and biden hasn't delivered on any of the promises he made. don't heard any of it.

what are they unfortunately during the cold war, you know, stephen cohen, god bless the soul and left this too soon because he was such a great thinker in great person actually to and you know, he prophesies that he said that the war was, would be inevitable with theirs, we continued nato expansion. and one of the great things he said is that during the cold war, which he chronicled very well, he said, at least the western leadership put themselves in the shoes of the kremlin. you know, and so if, let's put our feet in the shoes of the kremlin right now, there's a conflict in ukraine. one of the antecedents was nato expansion. and now to other countries been when in sweden want to join. i mean, how the russians, obviously this is a, is a aggressive threat, but no one gives that angle in western media. go ahead 10 peers. i can't recall a campaign of demon i'd ation as thorough knowing as the current one against russia

in western media. and i want to, i want to take a minute and explain my position here. if i may, i was 26 years. the us diplomat. i spent more than half my career working with or at nato. so i'm intimately familiar with the institution and it's byways. and it's quirks. now add a retired diplomat. i'm a great believer in winston churchill phrase that georgia is always better than war war. and for that reason alone, i do not condone rushes operations in ukraine, but given the level of provocation, especially the hypocrisy that nato is displayed. i certainly understand them. first, zelinski goes to the unit security conference in february and talks about rolling back ukraine's decision to get rid of nuclear weapons. second, despite the fact checks it appeared, western media us funded by a labs in ukraine are a reality and have been since the nunn lugar cooperative threat reduction program

went into effect 30 years ago. you know, 30 years ago, it might have made sense for nato. the us and western countries to help former soviet states like ukraine, to do away with this w. m. d stockpile. but what those labs are still doing in operation 30 years later, beggars the imagination, you know, what ukraine has done is they've had to ukraine the russia, the same exact excuse that the u. s. senate deadlines used to invade iraq in 2003, which is w. m d counterproliferation. now point 3, there's not going military. humanitarian crisis in the bass has been for years now . people have been getting sheldon killed willy nilly without almost any reporting in the western media. but this is also the same exact excuse that nato used in 1999 yet to conduct over kosovo humanitarian intervention. so if

it's good enough for bill clinton in 99, and it's good enough for w in 2003. why isn't it somehow good enough for president couldn't exercise these same authorities in 2022? well, i mean, i'm glad you bring that up because alfred, i mean, we've, you know, with essentially, with these kind of low octane thinkers in the west. you know, i mean, they're all over the place, liz trust, you know, anthony blink and all of these people here, they would, they want to know that were on some kind of war footing. well, the russians might actually take the same attitude as well. i mean, how is it that nancy pelosi can waltz around the center of care during a military conflict with russia. ok, because the russians are not targeting it. they're not interested in it at all. but at one point they might go ahead alfred. well, you address the issue of a rules based international order you address blinkin and binding. now, here it is. we have the united nations charter and one has made those on what has

the united states done. we have not only violated articles warren, on 2 of the charter we m, i, late at the spirit of the charter, not only the letter article, 2 paragraphs, 3 of the charter requires that we negotiate in good faith right now. but it has been negotiating, try to reach some sort of a peaceful solution to the dumbass problem since the coded car against the democratically elected young coach in ukraine, which we called finance that we know from victoria moreland. now, 8 years old negotiating, 8 years old, seeing better hankle and zalinski violate the immense agreement, wanted to systematically, and then in december last hooting up. what's on the table to moderate

our treaties, which are then dismissed by silicon, bergen biden. and i have to tell many, or will we have to go to a hard break and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion of the european war state with look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except when such orders at conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about on personal intelligence. and the point obviously is to place trust rather than a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with

obama protective own existence with a ah, [000:00:00;00] a

full ah, welcome back across like were all things considered on peter level to remind you were discussing the european war. ah ok, let's go back to sara. in jersey city. there seems only be one gear in play here in this to move forward with a conflict. and what is i find so very peculiar is number one. what is winning mean in this conflict? i mean, i don't even wanna even go down that path. i mean, i think these people have no idea the dangers that they're creating. number 2, even at this stage of the conflict that should have never happened in the 1st place . i'm western publics are and, and consumers are being affected. i like, you know, we've talked about on this program,

really the conflict in iraq and syria and libby and all that. well, that really didn't affect the western citizenry very, very much. this is beginning to really a bomb pinch, a lot of people here. and there seems to be no easing down and even willing to sit down to talk. i mean, we have that we have the french, the, the italians and the germans are, you know, way we should talk about negotiations while pushing more war sanctions will. that's not how negotiations work. so as a sarah, i mean this is why i'm so depressed and worried is that they think something is winnable. i don't know what that means because that could entail in iowa ation of everyone. go ahead, sir. well, what is winning mean to you as strategists and war planners? it really means candidate greg the relations, the trade relations. he economic exchanges between the e u, specially germany and russia. could they do this through war and the demand

for sanctions? we shouldn't forget that biden promised nuclear war if, if the sanctions weren't voted, said it's world war 3 or it's sanctions. so from the very beginning, it's been how to break the economic relations and it has come back and hit with a vengeance on the countries of the e. u. here in the u. s. globally, in terms of famine, literally in africa, when you have spiraling inflation, raises an energy cost. it is a war that has already reduced ukraine from the most prosperous country at the time of the division of the soviet union. the most prosperous of the republics to today, the poorest country in europe. and the war is now making the e u. there really paying the price as they say, folks in britain have to choose between heating and eating. now, how has russia fought this war?

they fought it very differently from the u. s. and the u. s. from day one, iraq afghanistan, anywhere in the world. they knock out the water, the sanitation, sewage, the food warehouses, the intern, all the communication systems, day one and they advertise it, they push it out the. * hospitals, the medical center, that's what's destroyed. that's not what's happened in the ukraine. there. the bakeries were still open in kiev internet. that's how world politicians from pelosi, you folks are all able to visit jeff, isn't that unusual in a war? but russia is fighting this in a very different way, very much against, than not c, fascist forces that have been organized right within the don, etc. so we should see the differences in how the wars fought, the aims in it and, and the u. s. aims are,

which are to completely use ukraine as upon in order to ensnare russia in a war that they want to have you and it's an interest and they are trying to reach a negotiated solution to end this war with the end of the nazi domination and firing within east ukraine, you know, take care what, you know, i guess the, you know, i agree with much of what sarah said, you mean the prize is actually had gemini in europe, this, it, because the ever since the end of the cold war, well actually even during the cold war, and he kind of german soviet slash, russian reproach. miles was something the washington always worried about. that's why they always have social democrats in germany, just like they have sergeant filter now in germany. but you know, what, what is the price of europe? if there's productivity goes down, unemployment goes up. i mean, you,

a social infrastructure is destroyed. i mean, it's kind of a cheap 3rd prize ribbon, isn't it? i mean, just to have had gemini and to punish russia. well, russia can look elsewhere. ok, it, right, rushes relate. existence doesn't, isn't dependent on its relationship with europe. go ahead. ted. peter, you're being grossly unfair there. and you're asking me to sort of explain by nomics and mystery to me, i don't know if anyone's capable of explaining what, what that man is up to other than printing money at lightspeed. if in the process he can destroy europe's economy as well. and possibly, you know, from it maybe maybe his vision is, is a smoking economic ruin from the atlantic to the urls. i'm not sure. but seriously, we've got a situation where sweeten is looking at abandoning its traditional you know, it's a distance from any war stance like switzerland as an online country, even in europe. and it's just, it's looking,

it's throwing that away. finland has been neutral, aggressively neutral. ever since the end of world war 2, they're not stupid. they're right on the border with the soviet union. they wanted peace. they didn't want to be any part of a political military alliance. it's a lot more military, the political. and now in the current situation, because we've got this focus on, you know, the democratic pure haven of ukraine, and never mind that it's a semi criminal enterprise and has been for a long time. you know, we're all going gung ho toward war for no apparent reason, but for that matter, nato shouldn't exist. so yeah, you know, we're talking about the expanding that hasn't had a reason to exist since 991. yeah, i've always thought i found, you know, biden's, policy so abiding, who ran the ukraine desk during the obama administration and where his son

worked at barithium. the u. s. is sending money to people that paid people like his son. it's very kind of peculiar relationship. alford was obviously we were running out of time here is that nato really kind of pushing to see if they can test article 5. i mean, it seems like a game of chicken here. ok. and but, you know, if they want to push article 5, so let's say something happens. you know, there's a missile system that the u. s. puts into finland. russia reacts, and then they have invoke article 5, and then they have their friend in turkey. air on says, i'm not involved in this. ok then, the entire midst of article 5 of the nato treaty is blown up your thoughts? well, i think that i also said there is no racial battle for natal nato. and its claim of full spectrum dominance is a crime against humanity in itself. it is

a right incompatible with you when trotter article to power for all the charter prohibits not only the use of force what it prohibited the correct of the use of force. and as coke premises, very correctly said on the 3rd of may, may pose barking at the door of russian may actually provoke this tragedy. and that has been carried by the mainstream media. main for media is complicit in this tragedy because they have been actually conducting propaganda for war and demonizing. the enemy, by the way, contrary to article 20 of the international covenant on civil and political rights that the united states and united kingdom and france and germany are all parties to

ok. let me, let me go to sarah here and jersey. see, sir, i mean, on this program from december 17th all the way up to the conflict on february 24th, almost every single program i made on those 2 proposals that the russians and at one to nato went to the united states. and of course, we all know the reaction. now, i mean, these are not good faith actors. i mean, those were a good thing. you can call them ultimatums if you want all fine. okay, but that was a point of reference. i mean, i did, i, you know, and then you know, when i look at, you know, the, the, the, the, we have a call for a, a cease fire by defense secretary law lloyd austin. i mean, well, i wouldn't believe any. i wouldn't believe i would. i would probably believe a used car salesman more than i would believe the defense secretary right now. i mean, this is really, it's almost impossible. even the wind is conflict out because you don't know who is you, who to talk to, and the people that you might talk to are in good faith actors. this was run by the west. go ahead. this is about money,

about super profits and everything else has flown out the window including bill back better in the us, 40000000000 dollars in the last a congressional appropriation along with all the money. it was already flowing in 1000000000 here, 3000000000 there. so much of it goes missing, as we well know in every us war. literally, it's delivered on the tarmac and it's no longer there. now, what was the war meant to do along with the super profits that come from war? because the u. s. economy is 1st and foremost, based on war, on endless war, on super profits to the military industries. but it was also because german investment in russia was 10 times the u. s. investment in russia. their trade with russia. 10 times what us trade was,

their german trade with the u. s. so how does the u. s. brake this, turn it around, smash and they are willing to smash the e, you absolutely. who was both a competitor and, and ally, and use the nato military machine to do it. so there, sir, let me, let me jump in here. i want to give to the last word here that i did. the cynic in me says the pentagon in the military industrial complex, they need a replacement for the afghan griffith. and the ukraine is the substitute for the griff they lost in afghanistan, 40 seconds, go ahead. i absolutely agree, but i want to make one quick point about nato peter, which is that it does operate by consensus that may seem like just lip service. but it is a fact that if on korea wants to break consensus on, for example, sweden and finland joining the alliance, they can do so and no one can stop ebay. ted. wow, wow, we have the time, ted. well, i have the time. hang on by that. why will we other,

don't you think that everyone is just wants to make a deal? that's what he always does. that's it. yeah, of course. let's make a deal and he's going to do one of the most favorite terms. he can the most favorable terms. he can buy extorting the whole alliance. ok, well, you know, extortion, blackmail it. all these things are associated with nato. here, as all the time we have out. i want to thank my guess in jersey city, geneva, an intense media, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. remember crosstalk rules ah ah, with just look up from literally a muscle on noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on at nash to me,

but i still mamma cascoo sit it suddenly tim got that. i put a his ashley of a d. c. wanted to what to do because pieces because nancy company wanted new thesis instead of cool. jason did not put the key chain of times in the pro phones or something like that. and then we got at that point with that with 30 i spoke earlier with her. what are your thousands of people still live in small towns and villages that have become the new front line, which i think what they call this area. the greys a

really early founder of course, pretty me what i was only about a used vehicle with a dog so it won't go away with that. similarly with him, demos a she'll be able to do. i still wonder if his daughter lennox on roku or blue shield that shows that she made a fee of a before he boy prove here, scott replied throwing up at last time. i didn't look like a. can you go to jen? and i got other than you should be had

with turkey and croatia block and attempt to buy the nordic countries at finland and sweden to join nato, saying their security concerns have not been adequately address the almost a 1000 ukrainian troops and surrender and marbles as a star field factory with captured near, not these from the as of battalion due to stand trial for alleged war crimes, macos lambs, the west for blaming russia for provoking a world hunger crisis as the un calls on russia to restore food supplies to global