ah, hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the west drive to weaken in isolate russia is not working out all that well. russia, the most sanctioned country in the world, has an economy that is now stable and resilient. the west can't say the same for it's economies. in fact, the west is weakening and isolating it self. ah cross sucking economic blowback. i'm joined by my guess, philip geraldine percival. he is the executive director of the council for the national interest and a former cia counter terrorism specialist in minneapolis. we have stephen e barb. he is a political analyst, and in paris we cross to john rick mall. he is a political commentator. all right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules and effect, that means you can jump in any time you want. i always appreciate phil. let me go

to you 1st here. ah, that big $40000000000.00 aid bill was about to go through congress. i and that's it . that's not even, i think we've, we, if we all added up with the $40000000000.00, it's like $53000000000.00. but at the same time, i don't have a whole lot of respect for politicians, particularly in the west. but congressman chip roy said he kind of asked the, the, the most obvious question, i'm wondering when we voted to go to war. so, i mean, what is the objective here? i mean, but, but you print all this money, which us certainly could use a border, for example. um, so what is the objective of congress is so determined to help ukraine towards what end do you now go ahead? well, i don't know. to me, i'm mystified as to what is really going through the heads of our elected leaders in terms of what the net gain for the united states is from rural of this our

suffering by virtue of the fact that it is 40. but in this $50000000000.00 that is not really exist and it's just point being printed up, we're suffering from inflation, we're suffering pers, shortages of critical goods. and the economy is in bad shape. i think everyone agrees on that. and also the europeans are taking a beating in terms of energy law itself and also in terms of a number of products that are vital for their economy. so it took it to lose lose kind of situation for those who are going after russian. i think the simple answer is what lloyd austin said was, this was, this is all about weakening russia. i'm not sure what that means, but that's what he said. and that must be what they're thinking was on. they were europe has been mentioned here. i mean, it seems to me with the, the u. s. in the u. k. are poised to do everything they can as

a lawyer. dawson said, we can russia, does i mean, destroying the european economy in the process? because it certainly looks that way to me. i am absolutely bewildered that european leaders are making the choices that they are, the productivity of europe is going to be smothered. and then what is the value of the, the european economy if it isn't allowed to run it full speed, particularly coming out of this pandemic go ahead in paris. yes, yes. a company gig, hey, would you have gus? and since had an idea on the, on the you have been here. busy i am wondering what we, you, hobbyists are doing in dismiss. you see one way to put it is that there is this moral imperative. we have to defend a bullet chain again, the bad russians have invaded them with no, for no reason whatsoever. well, 1st of all, if the sovereignty indian did, he just became the circle st. why was the serenity of serbia over kosovo at prague

harbor? 1999 ish goes over to high so. so the donation on kane has that height weight on the population, least on the cane of that fight. so that the moral argument already collapses. the other he's in, collapse is that we are taking sanctions against russia that we never ever consider taking against the united states for a hack. and of course, even more of our, of ganesh than india, where we actually collaborated and for example, even like counseling belgium's, and troops in those conflicts. not very important. well, of course, so the moral argument, i mean, even now we could take sanction against saudi arabia because of your man, you could take sanction, again, israel, because of palestine. it's a plaza. so there is no moral argument whatsoever. it may sound, let me, let me stay with you here. you have a very valid point. i mean, in all of the conflicts that you've mentioned with this conflict. now that the,

the europeans have become a co belligerent and it is affecting consumers and voters, all those other conflicts that you mentioned, you're absolutely right. there was no moral basis board, but there's a real, practical, pragmatic, physical financial impact on europeans. i won't. i mean, how does that, how does that a fly in europe? i mean, it's against their own self interest. explain that to be there. i was going to come to that. they say you could say that there is a practical reason to have all the sanctions against russia because russia tend to us. but that's not to, i mean, the whole project are 1890. 1, of course, as being trained to be friendly with the western indian, they have been shot. and now we are going to make them even more at the, in the did by trying to cancel or, and go, jones, what are the nonsense we are doing now? the hutchins are convinced that we want to destroy them, which is not completely tube if they can understand why they believe that. and we

should say your says we are shooting, assessing the food surgical them. exemptions are not working. there were hangings does. so the practical argument collapse is also so the argument whatsoever, but how does it work? she bl, as i said, my, what i just seen now, and any of those are, i wouldn't be invited to start with. and then you have in general there would be a whole blur about me being able to put didn't over versed in german. some of you understand booking. i mean, it's just impossible to discuss well with them i'm, i'm very happy that i still have my program even though you tube is removed 17 years of my work. but i'm still going at it here. stephen, let me go to you. what. what does ukraine mean to the average american? because, you know, i do say in contact with a small group of people that went through graduate school with. and they're pretty smart people in their academics. they don't know squat about ukraine. they have no knowledge of the context whatsoever, and i have to admit, they think i'm a bit of a nut case because i talk about all of these details like the illegal who in 2014

and the, the war on the don bass for 8 years the minsk agreement, they have no idea what i'm talking about, steven? yeah, so i'm, i think peter were saying, you know what we saw in 2014, which when asked, you know, where's the ukraine or crimea on a map? i'd, you know, nobody could find it in reality. indeed, americans know nothing that, that's, that's a fact for the most part a, i would say at least 80 percent, if not a bit more on the, the sad thing as i am, you know, blogging on facebook. so to speak is so that same percent is buying, hook, line, and sinker. every single report. and that's a failure. western media, you may recall at the very beginning of the conflict when the, the 2 republic seceded. there were

a couple of western journalists on the other side, a couple, b, b, c, cnn. and they had some reporting that was not very favorable to the ukraine and as i understand it within a day, all their reporting was they were video. and that was taken down and at this point in the west, the only the only exception to that peter is the right wang and fox news and tucker carlson by to to be very honest that that is not true. russian. no, it is actually, it's actually pro american the way i see it. ok. and then we are national interests . hey, let me go to let me go to philip here. philip, that the european union is proposing to pay $9500000000.00 euros to pay the ukraine government's bills, budget, salaries, and all of that. and it's open ended. they can do whatever they want with it. i mean, those of us know something about your grade. that is a,

it's almost comical. i mean, that money is, it's going to simply disappear. and so why would zelinski in his orbit want this conflict ever to? and if their bills are going to be paid by the west, go ahead philip. well, for one thing, good zalinski, i can't let this go on forever cuz he'll run out of soldiers. but the fact is that what you say is actually correct. ukraine is by general consensus, the most corrupt country in europe, and also has the worst economy. this is why rand paul centered around fall, has been holding up the money in the u. s. senate because he says basically there's no oversight, chris, this money is going to disappear, got a depo, go into a whole bunch of pockets, both the ukraine and in the united states. and of course he, the equivalency will be taking place in europe and the benefit that comes out of

this is ural. if this is the most astonishing thing, i think any of us have seen 60 a enormous pop propaganda, victory and catastrophic foreign policy decision made when we invaded iraq. this is a, this is an incredible event. i think that every morning when i pick up of the newspapers as an informer intelligence, all right, i tend to look for sourcing for these stories. and it's very often there's no source thing. it indicated. and in some cases, the source is the ukrainian government, which is being advised, of course, by us, neil con advisors and military personnel out of uniform. so it's a, you know, this is a disaster. this is a catastrophe in making. well, philip, if i can stay with you, i mean, when we're looking at this $40000000000.00, again, if you all added up, it's like $53000000000.00 it with all of a. so quote aid,

i mean i, i suppose there's, it's going to be brew good brigade, i after brigade, after brigade of hunter biden's are going to show up in ukraine now. okay, because that's it. this and it's going to form of money laundering is what it is. okay, so i'm sure other, other for children of the beliefs will be signing up for the same kind of dig. because it's very interesting. it seems like replacing of the grip of afghanistan is now going to ukraine. philip, how do you feel about that? yeah, yeah, no, i should. that's. that's absolutely. and, and you better believe the hunter bide, you're already there. when we reinstated the embassy a couple weeks ago, they were the 1st wave. i mean, they were the marines landing on the, on the shore. so they're ready and there are no, they know how to do their stuff done before. this is all a con job. the, the money's going to go to defense contractors in the us. it's going to go to politicians and it's going to be stolen. i've ukrainians. well that, that's

a prognosis i haven't any about that it know you crate and i've been there over a dozen times. that's exactly how it works. okay. i unfortunately, members of congress don't have any idea about that. or maybe they do, maybe they do, maybe that's the joke on us. all right, i'm gonna jump in here. we're getting on to what you're breaking up to that your break. we'll continue our discussion on economic blowback state with ah ah ah, ah ah

ah ah, need to come to the russian state little narrative. i've stayed as i'm turning the no santini, devastation, american house house up and up for a coup in the city battle defeat. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else with we will ban in the european union the kremlin jeff machine. the state aren't russia

for date and split our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube with chris with ah

ah, welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you we're discussing economic blowback. ah. okay, go back to sheldon in paris. john i you, in your 1st answer you talked about the moral imperative of western leads. the do something like i back afghan, us and all that. and we were fed all the propaganda here. but isn't there in a moral imperative for the european leadership to its own people? i mean, i look at, you know, i look at just going on through all every single country inflation. then you have some countries that have this huge immigration of ukrainians, which it's like a, it's all rosy for the beginning. but after a while it ends up being very, very expensive. a disruption of society in the u. k. they have food banks that are being pressured here. i mean,

where's the moral imperative to take care of your own people? because i, for the life of me, i cannot understand the strategic economic, political value of ukraine to the european union. go ahead. neither do i. that's what i say. there is no particular reason either, but the more imperative, good, i mean is complete. the one say didn't know what the new one, but there is pressure from the media is you speak of the full power with the full power is not democrat to get this keeps all democratic control and i think politicians, even if they think otherwise, that is very hard for them to oppose, but i wanted to make a comment about this money laundering scheme that ukraine has become. there's one person in congress who said that is marjorie again. ok, and i don't know very well, but they know that the liberal in that against are considered a nevertheless, she said that exactly that against the 40000000000 and she was high. and what did the squad left of the democratic party vote for the vote for the 40000000000?

so we have, you know, version of values of these, for my point of view, from people like my age, you remember the vietnam war, that the so called left us become more wanna walk than some of the right not the whole right, of course. but some of the right in europe, for example, in germany in particular. well, the more hopeful the gains agree found as is movement. the genes may have to move into just the, for ancient that we've decided jellicoe who get less of all the germany. good. i mean, i mean that's unbelievable, but that's the way we are. you see, i have only one of those is that this is when you're getting this up and then this, the gang of the west. i mean, this new, i mean, this is a book which are from spangler, which i'm not supposed to with today. but you see, this is a situation where he's not infection. least one way to criticize is all to disperse . let me finish with one of them out. you know, everybody has been making fun of the sleep of the dung of george w bush when he's say that on this one man put in,

who decides you new actor leading vision of how can they change or day? but what did he say before that the city hush of their new checks and balance in the us and in europe, there are supposedly chicken balance was the efficiency of the checks and balance was the efficiency of our request. nothing, nothing. that it, that it's such a good point because they say they're doing it all in the name of democracy as they wrote democracy in their own countries. it's, you're absolutely right on that stephen. as i said in my introduction, the russian economy is recovered. i why watch the roller coaster ride of the rouble? it stable. it's actually more valuable now than it was before the sort of the conflict, obviously. and apparently they were prepared for all of the sanctions here. so when you have the, you know, lindsey grams of the world, you know that they know pollutant must be well, take it out and all of this other rhetoric here, it's not working. so if it's not working, are they going to up the ante? i mean, i mean they're, they're looking very,

very poor going to it's got to stephen in minneapolis on that. go ahead stephen. yeah, i think certainly to me this, this is more about history than hunter biden. and, and read a lot of history and this is just classic for centuries west against russia. and if we throw in there bismark, russia without the ukraine, that, that kind of says a lot at this point, at least economically, the u. s. and the, and the rest of the e u, in any event seemed to be going as a russian to tray would save a bunk or they're going all in doubling down. ah, i'm not quite so sure. be in the state of the russian economy. i, i certainly to roubles doing well, well, i'm on a j. p. morgan came out with a desk note at the beginning of this week here, and i, and i will use to word resilient because they used the word resilience. so i'm not

an economist. i go to i referred to people who, who are okay. obviously there are dislocations here. i'm not painting a rosy picture, keep going. yeah. yeah. yeah. so i, yeah, i'm not, i'm not arguing it's good shape. i think there's been a tragic now miscalculation right at when we remember obama saying we've ripped the russian economy to shreds. and you know, i am over quite frequently. i'm shut down lately, but it's funny because i get a snapshot a couple times a year, way back then and, and the stores, you know, that the shells in the stores were fine restaurants, everything. absolutely fine. so from that perspective, i think they underestimated the whole movement in russia to insulate itself, you know, shutting down swift. it's a big deal. it's a big deal, but they've been expecting that for years now. so however, i mean, it was even like, i'll have to tell you that, i mean, inflation is an issue that

a lot of russians are having to deal with as well as everyone else in the world there. let me go to philip right now. philip, i'm, you're an old hand. i remember during the cold war, keep the ger, keep the germans down the russians out in the americans in. i guess it had nothing to do with fighting communism because it's as exactly what these neocons the unit party is doing in washington. the thing is, the caveat is that was supposed to be good for europe. it's not good for europe and it's actually bad for the west in general. go ahead philip. yeah, this is one of the great mysteries. and this is, as i said before, i mean the most incredible con job because this whole thing is being sold on the basis of, of the, to a crunch word, you know, freedom and democracy. once you get below that level, you see that there is absolutely no reason for any of this happening. taken place and all that. this was a negotiable issue over

a number of years. yes. that the west and the united pushed by the united states was, was not interested in negotiating. and does so, we have had this situation where it will be the american people, the europeans, will suffer more than the russians and her russia will not to go through regime change. so it's going to be an endless, endless conflict. as i said in the beginning to weaken russia, whatever that is supposed to mean as a competitor, as a, as a force for a non american perspective of what the world is and should be. i don't really know . i talked to a lot of people, of the leftist or worse on this issue than are conservative say, has the people who are supposed to believe in all these abstractions are actually the ones who are pushing for stronger measures. i suppose they think that if there's a warrant, they or their children or grandchildren won't have to fight it or get nuked during

it. but you know, that's a, that's a false perception, a couple of wrong steps. and all of this could go beyond the economy and into something to so much more horrific. well, in place because philip, because you were a ukraine, is important to russia, but ukraine has no meaningful value to europe or the united states. this is what is mystifying by all this and you're absolutely right that it could have easily been avoid very easily avoided after the december 17th when the 2 ultimatum to set out at all. i talked about for 3 months and i kept saying it's going to happen. it's going to happen. we have to avoid this. and you know, i was unfortunately, right. john, let me go to you in paris. i me, at what future stories are going to wonder why the european sold themselves out to the americans? because sir, i mean, the energy issues are global, hurts the united states, but it damages europe beyond repair. in many ways, i mean,

how do you explain that this is the total edge that europe is playing along with? it's mystifying to me go ahead in paris and that's tool that you see going back to the u. s. and canada, there is an, an intense, irrational element which i actually do with berkeley to descendants of any grades from the ocean. empire is true and sent. you know, your question of their accounts or the great grandfather, whatever. oh, great campaigns. i mean, they can be people talking about the countries from poland on mccain and juice. it's not avoid saying that to be honest, in a crate in canada for example, the kings are very important. and the king and love be pushing canada. christina, know? yeah. they're there, deputy prime minister. yes. and of course in the years i don't need to explain anything figure if it knows that better than i do. and in your hope we have the same situation. and then because of the more on the mutation that these people

exert by say, or yup, would invoke fair. i mean it's no, it's impossible to collect. and she said, she said, i think that everything is actually got married to the left with no interest in 6 or my companies. and in fact, they're, you know, losing. i mean, the whole new, for example, has lost a lot of money. the fringe banks have lost money and they don't, they can't do anything because of the media. a holler good, you know, against the russians. but you see, i think also one should say that ever since 2014, it has been completely of use. that the only way to solve this problem in a can, would be to negotiate the ease of a chain, demanded a done on me and they were hides and they should have gotten it. they didn't get it now they just don't want to hear about you. chain after now trained as lost the easter, there's lost the premier there last year, so that's a plan they'd be there. we lose more,

the position of the king and government is still that they want to get back everything including train year. but to get back that year, been shouting within bridge on a daily basis here. right? you're right. but where does that come from? because a month ago and asked them bowl that looked like there was some kind of movement here. and then it was boris johnson. the american administration said no, it would, you do not negotiate. and that is the problem here because the other say was young here. the problem is, is that the west doesn't want a negotiated end here. and that is what's really troubling because the only alternative is more conflict last 30 seconds. go to you. just go ahead in paris. where fresh from there the feet enough. ganley's down there. yes, things are going doing against russia to do chain as good luck. i am steven, i'll give you a last 20 seconds. here. are the american people prepared for war with russia? i don't believe they're prepared for war. but i, i do believe that, you know, yes, we have inflation. we have some shortages that kind of stuff,

but this financial stuff you know, that they're down for it. unfortunately a bit and it's going to keep going. and at this point, we're not talking 40000000000, we're talking peter. well, over a trillion over the last 68 years. well, and on this the, the word on capital hill is the 3 trillion. and that's really amazing because that's just replacing the afghan grip. it's no coincidence in my mind, gentlemen. that's all the time we have many thanks to my guess in personnel, minneapolis and in paris. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember, cross like with for ah,

although she had them with the military restoring you to look up from room. i'm not sure where your muscle is runyan noon. she kitty doesn't beating train show on a nurse to me as possible. mamma cook girls goose creek somewhere tamika. barbara has ashley, uh this morning to work with girls balance to come here from one to 3. if this sort of cool position it needs to be bringing out. and i put the key for the chino bronze medal for furnished, arrive something like that. and then we got that. was it, that was the more a li say residential for l grey. lisa. oh, when i was showing wrong one, i just don't know. i mean, you world, yes,

to shape out disdain becomes the african and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, [000:00:00;00] a magic you pretty much listen, look and you live muscles. if you look on the initial, be one of them not to get a new one or 2, but you also still listed on those

a . but i see the teeny bus is the little gear motivation, says diesel, you gumbo sub ah, the la guns for public is about to come on to full control of russia and its regional allies. according to the russian defense minister. his dress is that moscow is doing everything it can to protect civilians from over here, it's less than 500 meters to the positions of the ukrainian forces. respondent reports from the don't boss fund line. why don't? yes, 4th is a defending that positions from the ukranian army and preparing to advance from the french army. so just who's been volunteering given medical work when you train