ah ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the west drive to weaken in isolate russia is not working out all about well. russia, the most sanctioned country in the world, has an economy that is now stable and resilient. the west can't say the same for its economies. in fact, the west is weakening and isolating it self. ah

cross sucking economic blow back. i'm joined by my guess. philip jer all the in percival, he is the executive director of the council for the national interest and a former cia counter terrorism specialist in minneapolis, we have stephen e berg. he is a political analyst, and in paris we cross to john rick mall. he is a political commentator. all right, gentlemen, cross sack rose in effect. that means he can jump in any time you want. i always appreciate phil. let me go to you 1st here. that big, $40000000000.00 aid bill is about to go through congress. i and that's it, that's not even i think we've, we, if we all added up with the $40000000000.00, it's like $53000000000.00. but at the same time, i don't have a whole lot of respect for politicians, particularly in the west. but congressman chip roy said he kind of asked the, the, the most obvious question, i'm wondering when we voted to go to war. so, i mean, what is the objective here? i mean, what, you print all this money, which us certainly could use as a border,

for example. um, so what is the objective of congress is so determined to help ukraine towards what end do you now go ahead? well, i don't know. to me, i'm mystified as to what is really going through the heads of our elected leaders in terms of what the net gain for the united states is from all of this our suffering. by virtue of the fact that this $40000000.00, this $50000000000.00 does not really exist, and it's just point be printed up. we're suffering from inflation, we're suffers shortages of critical goods. the economy is in bad shape. i think everyone agrees on that. and also the europeans are taking a beating in terms of energy ha, itself and also in terms of a number of products that are vital further economy. so it's a, it's a lose lose kind of situation for those who are going after russian. i think the

simple answer is what lloyd austin said was, this was, this is all about weakening russia. i'm not sure what that means, but that's what he said. and that must be what their thinking was on. they were a europe has been mentioned here. i mean, it seems to me with the, the u. s. in the u. k. a poise to do everything they can as a lloyd austin said we can russia, does i mean destroying the european economy in the process? because it certainly looks that way to me. i am absolutely bewildered that european leaders are making the choices that they are, the productivity of europe is going to be smothered, and then what is the value of the, of the european economy if it isn't allowed to run at full speed, particularly coming out of this pandemic go ahead in paris. yes, yes, a company gig hey, would you have gus? and since i had an idea on the, on the you have been. busy here i am wondering what we,

you hobbins are doing in dismiss. you see one way to put that is that there is this moral. busy impacted, we have to defend a bully chain again. the bad russians have invaded them with no, for no reason whatsoever. well, 1st of all, if the sovereignty indian did, he just became sacrosanct. why was the sovereignty of serbia over kosovo? for garb in 1999 and ish goes over the race of say the germination all kane has that height weight on the population, least on the cane of that fight. so that the moral argument already collapses. the other he's and he collapses that we are taking sanctions against russia that we never ever consider taking against the united states for a hack. and of course, even more of our have ganesh than india, where we actually collaborated and for example, even my counsellor, belgium and hoops in, in those countries are very important. well, of course,

so the moral argument, i mean, even now we could take sanction against saudi arabia because of your man, you could take sanction, again, israel, because of palestine. it's a presser. so there is no moral argument, whatsoever. it, or you could say, mainshine. let me, let me stay with you here. you have a very valid points. i mean, in all of the conflicts that you've mentioned with this conflict, now that the european to become a co belligerent in it, is affecting consumers and voters. all those other complex that you mentioned, you're absolutely right. there was no moral basis more, but there's a real, practical, pragmatic, physical financial impact on europeans. i won't. i mean, how does that, how does that apply in europe? i mean, it's against their own self interest. explain that to be there. i was going to come to that. they say you could say that they said practically. he's on to have all the sanctions against russia because russia tried to us. but that's not true. i mean

the whole trajectory since 91, of course, has been trying to be friendly with the western indian. they have been shot and the now we are going to make them even more at the, in the did by trying to cancel or, and go jones. what are the nonsense we are doing now? the russians are convinced that we want to destroy them. we're just not completely tube, they can understand way they believe that. and then we. busy as you say, your says we are shifting, assessing the food service, economic sanctions are not working, they're working against us. so the practical argument perhaps is also so they have more argument whatsoever. but how does it work? she goes, i said why, what they just say now, and any of it was, and i wouldn't be invited to start with. and then you have in general there would be a whole blur about me being able to put it over, put things are still in german. some of you understand booking, i mean it's just impossible to discuss well with them i'm. i'm very happy that i still have my program even though you tube is removed 17 years of my work, but i'm still going added here. stephen, let me go to you. what,

what does ukraine mean to the average american? because, you know, i do say in contact with a small group of people that went through graduate school with and they're pretty smart people in their academics. they don't know squat about ukraine. they have no knowledge of the context whatsoever, and i have to admit, they think i'm a bit of a nut case because i talk about all of these details like the legal, coo and 2014 in the, the war on the don bass for 8 years the minsk agreement, they have no idea what i'm talking about, steven? yeah, so i'm, i think peter were saying, you know what we saw in 2014, which when asked, you know, where's the ukraine or crimea on a map? i'd, you know, nobody could find it in reality. indeed, americans know nothing that that's, that's a fact for the most part a, i would say at least 80 percent, if not a bit more on the,

the sad thing as i am, you know, blogging on facebook sort of speak is so that same percent is buying hook, line, and sinker, every single report. and that's a failure. western media, you may recall at the very beginning of the conflict when the, the 2 republic seceded. there were a couple of western journalists on the other side, a couple, b, b, c, cnn. and they had some reporting that was not very favorable to the ukraine. and as i understand it, within a day, all their reporting was they were video and that was taken down. and at this point in the west, the only the only exception to that peter is the right wang and fox news and tucker carlson. but to be very honest that that is not true. russian. no,

it is actually, it's actually pro american the way i see it. ok. and then we are national interest . hey, let me go to let me go to philip philip that the european union is proposing to pay 9500000000 euros to pay the ukraine government's bills, budget salaries, and all of that. and it's open ended. they can do whatever they want with it. i mean, those of us that know something about you, great, that is a, it's almost comical. i mean, that money is, is going to simply disappear. and so why would zelinski in his orbit want this conflict ever to? and if their bills are going to be paid by the west, go ahead philip. well, for one thing, good zalinski, i can't let this go on forever cuz he'll run out of soldiers. but the fact is that what you say is actually correct. ukraine is by general consensus, the most corrupt country in your and also has the worst economy. this is why ran paul centered around fall has been holding up the money in the u. s

. senate because he says basically there's no oversight, chris, this money is going to disappear, got a deep will go into a whole bunch of pockets, both the ukraine and in the united states. and of course he, the equivalency will be taking place in europe and the benefit that comes out of this is ural. it's, this is the most astonishing thing. i think any of us have seen 60 enormous pop propaganda, victory and catastrophic foreign policy decision made when we invaded iraq. this is a, this is an incredible event. i think that every morning when i pick up of the newspapers as an informer intelligence, all right. i tend to look for sourcing for these stories, and it's very often there's no source thing. it indicated. and in some cases, the source is the ukrainian government, which is being advised, of course,

by us, neil con advisors and military personnel out of uniforms. so it's a, you know, this is a disaster. this is a catastrophe in making. well, philip, if i can stay with you, i mean, when we're looking at this $40000000000.00, again, if you all added up, it's like $53000000000.00 it with all of the. so quote aid, i mean i, i suppose there's, it's going to be bird. good brigade, i after brigade, after brigade of hunter biden's are going to show up in ukraine now. okay. because that's, it isn't, it's, it's a form of money laundering is what it is. okay, so i'm sure other, other for children of the beliefs will be signing up for the same kind of gig because it's very interesting. it seems like replacing of the grip about dentist and it's now going to ukraine. we philip, how do you feel about that? yeah, yeah, no, actually that's, that's absolutely. and, and you better believe the 100 by you're already there. when we reinstated the embassy a couple weeks ago that they were the 1st wave. i mean,

they were the marines landing on the, on the shore. so they're ready and they know they know how to do it, done it before. this is all a con job. the money's going to go to defense contractors in the u. s. is going to go to politicians and it's going to be stolen by the ukranian. well that's, that's a prognosis i haven't any about that it know you crate and i've been there over a dozen times. that's exactly how it works. ok. i unfortunately, members of congress don't have any idea about them, or maybe they do, maybe they do, maybe that's the joke on us. all right, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that your break, we'll continue our discussion on economic blowback state with ah

ah ah ah, ah,

i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're said shorter is it conflict with the 1st law? show your identification. we should be very careful about official intelligence at that point, obviously is to place trust rather than fear. i would like to take on various charlene with artificial intelligence, real summoning with obama protect its own existence with ah, welcome back to crossfire. were all things are considered on peter level to remind you we're discussing economic blow back with

. okay, go back to shannon in paris, john, i, you, in your 1st answer, you talked about the moral imperative of western leads to do something, let's say iraq, afghanistan, all that. and we were fed all the propaganda here, but isn't there in a moral imperative for the european leadership to its own people? i mean, i look at, you know, i look at this going, gone through all every single country inflation. then you have some countries that have all this huge and immigration of ukrainians, which it's like today. it's all rosy for the beginning. but after a while it's being ends up being very, very expensive. a disruption of society in the u. k. they have food banks that are being pressured here. i mean, where's the moral imperative to take care of your own people? because i, for the life of me, i cannot understand this retake economic political value of ukraine to the european union. go ahead. neither do i. that's what i say. there is no practical reason

either, but the moral imperative, good, i mean, is complete. the one sided and you know whether you want. but there is this pressure from the media. you see, you speak of the for power with the 4th power is not democratic at all. it just keeps all democratic control. and i think politicians, even if they think otherwise, it's very hard for them to oppose. but i wanted to make a comment about this money laundering scheme that the korean has become. there's one person in congress who say that is marjorie taylor. kane ok, and i don't know very well, but i know that the liberal in that against are considered as in that case, it's a time and they will, the less she said that exactly that against the 40000000000 and she was high. and what did the squire that the left of the democratic party vote for the vote for the 40000000000? so we have in version of values at these, from my point of view, from people like my age, remember the vietnam war, that the so called left us become more, more won like, whoa, who than,

than some of the right, not the whole right of course. but some of the right in europe, for example, in germany in particular. well, the more hopeful the greens agree found is movement. the greens may have to move into just the 4th sanction that we've described to germany. we didn't care about the german economy. i mean, that's unbelievable, but that's the way we are. you see, i have only one of those is that this is again, this abeline, this decline of the west. i mean, this new, i mean, this is a book which i know from spangler, which i'm not supposed to put it on, but like, but you see, this is a situation and he's not infection. there's no way to criticize it's only to disperse. let me finish with one of them out. you know, everybody has been making fun of the sleep of the tongue of george w bush when he's say that one of these, this one man who to decides unilaterally the invasion of iraq, i mean a chain. but what did he say before that is it in the heart of the new checks and balance in the us and in the now supposedly chicken balance was the efficiency of

the checks and balance was the efficiency of our request. nothing, nothing that hurt at such a good point because they say they're doing it all in the name of democracy as they rode democracy in their own countries. it's, you're absolutely right on that is steven. as i said, in my introduction, the russian economy is recovered. i watched the roller coaster ride of the rouble. it's stable, it's actually more valuable now than it was before this sort of the conflict, obviously. and apparently they were prepared for all of these sanctions here. so when you have the, you know, lindsey grams of the world, you know, that they know pollutant must be taken out and all of this other rhetoric here it's not working. so if it's not working, are they going to up the ante? i mean, i mean they're, they're looking very, very full. going to go to steve in minneapolis on that. go ahead stephen. yeah, i think certainly to me this, this is more about history than hunter biden. and, and read a lot of history. and this is just classic for centuries west against russia. and

if we throw in their bismark, russia without the ukraine, that, that kind of says a lot at this point, at least economically, the u. s. and the, and the rest of the e. u. in any event seemed to be going as a russian to tray would save a bunk there, they're going all in doubling down. i'm. i'm not quite so sure. be in the state of the russian economy. i certainly roubles doing well, well, i'm a j. j. p. morgan came out with a desk note at the beginning of this week here, and i and i will use the word resilient because they used the word brazilian. so i'm not an economist. i go to, i referred to people who are okay. obviously there are dislocations here. i'm not painting a rosy picture, keep going. yeah. yeah. yeah. so i, yeah, and i'm not, i'm not arguing it's good shape. i think there's been

a tragic now miscalculation right at when we remember obama saying we've ripped the russian economy to shreds. and you know, i am over quite frequently. i'm shut down lately, but it's funny because i get a snapshot a couple times a year, way back then and, and the stores, you know, that the shells in the stores were fine restaurants, everything. absolutely fine. so from that perspective, i think they underestimated the whole movement in russia to insulate itself, you know, shutting down swift. it's a big deal. it's a big deal, but they plan expecting that for years now. so however, i mean, it was even live. i'll have to tell you that, i mean, inflation is an issue that a lot of russians are having to deal with as well as everyone else in the world there. let me go to philip right now, philip, i'm, you're an old hand. i remember during the cold war keep the german keep the germans down the russians out in the americans in. i guess it had nothing to do with

fighting communism because it's as exactly what these neocons the unit party is doing in washington. the thing is, the caveat is that was supposed to be good for europe. it's not good for europe and it's actually bad for the west in general. go ahead philip. yeah, this is one of the great mysteries. and this is, as i said before, i mean the most incredible con job because this whole thing is being sold on the basis of, of the, to a crunch word, you know, freedom and democracy. once you get below that level, you see that there is absolutely no reason for any of this happening. taken place and all that. this was a negotiable issue over a number of years. yes. that the west and the not pushed by the united states was, was not interested in negotiating. and does so, we have had this situation where it will be the american people, the europeans, will suffer more than the russians and her russia will not to go through regime

change. so it's going to be an endless, endless conflict. as i said in the beginning to weaken russia, whatever that is supposed to mean as a competitor, as a, as a force for a non american perspective of what the world isn't should be. i don't really know. i talked to a lot of people on the left is are worse on this issue than our conservative say has the people who are supposed to believe in. well, these abstractions are actually the ones who are pushing for stronger measures. i suppose they think that if there's a warrant, they or their children or grandchildren won't have to fight it or get nuked during it. but you know, that's a, that's a false perception, a couple of wrong steps. and all of this could go beyond the economy and into

something to so much more horrific. well, in place because philip, because you were a ukraine, is important to russia, but ukraine has no meaningful value to europe or the united states. this is what is mystifying by all that, and you're absolutely right that it could have easily been avoid very easily avoided after the december 17th when the 2 ultimatum to set out at all. i talked about for 3 months and i kept saying it's going to happen. it's going to happen. we have to avoid this. and you know, i was unfortunately, right. john, let me go to you in paris. i mean, at what future historians are going to wonder why the european sold themselves out to the americans. because sir, i mean, the energy issues are global, hurts the united states. but it, it, it, it damages europe beyond repair. in many ways, i mean, how do you explain that this is the total edge that europe is playing along with? it's mystifying to me go ahead in paris and that's tool that you see going back to the u. s. and canada, there isn't an intense,

irrational element which i actually do with berkeley to descendants of any grades from the ocean. and by his true sense, you know, your question of their accounts or the go down further, whatever. oh, great can parents? i mean they can be people talking about the countries from poland, from the cane and jews. it's not avoid saying that to be honest in training cannot . busy for example, the kings are very important as you can and love be pushing canada, christina, know? yeah. they're there, deputy prime minister. yes. and of course in the years i don't need to explain anything fig. if it knows that better than i do, and in your hope, we have the same situation. and then because of the more on the mutation that these people exert by, say, are, you know, put in books, fair? i mean, it's no, it's impossible to collect in it. she said, i think that everything is actually got hurried to the left with some companies.

and in fact, they're, you know, losing the hulu, for example, as lost a lot of money. the french banks have lots of money and they don't, they can't do anything because of the media. a holler, don't know, you know, against the russians. but you see, i think also one should say that ever since 2014, it has been completely of use that the only way to solve this problem in a can, would be to negotiate the ease of a chain demanded a dollar me and they were hide and they should have gotten it, they didn't get it now they just don't want to hear about you chain after. now you kind of lost the east. there's lost the premier there to last year, so that's a plan they'd be there. we use more, the position of the king and government is still that they want to get back everything including train year. but to get back that year, been shouting within bridge on a daily basis here. right? you're right. but where does that come from? because a month ago in this them bull that looked like there was some kind of movement here

. and then it was boris johnson, the american administration said, no, it would, you, if you do not negotiate. and that is the problem here. because the other say was young here, the problem is, is that the west doesn't want a negotiated end here. and that is what's really troubling because the only alternative is more conflict last 30 seconds. go to you. just go ahead in paris, where fresh from there if you didn't have gandy stand there. yes. things are going doing against russia to do chain. that's good. i am steven. i'll give you a last 20 seconds. here are the american people prepared for war with russia? i don't believe they're prepared for war, but i, i do believe that, you know, yes, we have inflation. we had some shortages that kind of stuff, but on this financial stuff, i mean, you know that they're down for it. unfortunately, i bet. and it's gonna keep going. and at this point, it,

we're not talking 40 billing, we're talking peter. well, over a trillion over the last 68 years. well, i'll, i'll, and on this, the, the word on capital hill is they 3 trillion. and that's really amazing. besides just replacing the afghan grip, it's no coincidence in my mind gentlemen, that's all the time we have many thanks to my guests in purcellville, minneapolis and in paris. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here in our t c. and next time, remember crosslegged ah ah

oh, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied, poland, virginia was a farming region today. it's part of ukraine. between 19431945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by step on bendara. nasa could thousands of poles and valeria in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the murderers were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted. aline, a massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past? and why does the memory of belinda still divide people ah,

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much more month of good us going for several weeks successful russian entrepreneur, you are eva gunner has been moving humanitarian cargo to the people who don't boss from moscow. and he's been doing it at his own expense. he, in a group of like minded volunteers, deliver it to where it's most needed in the region. a lot with focused on you would've gotten them to just look forward to mr. don boss. our deal is free . if the deal is dealing with all the commercial break, but it's just about, you know, what, i see the senior buses don't rule q. nation says this not to do.