millions or is business businesses good and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion. with ah, hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, the drive to sanction russia in any one who does business with russia is wrecking havoc on the global economy. the goal is to punish russia so far the russian economy remain stable. this cannot be said for other economies around the world. in fact,

those who sanction are feeling enormous pain and suffering ah cross sucking sanctions. i'm joined by my guess, michael hudson in new york. he is a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts. in las vegas, we have taught horowitz, he is the chief market strategist at bobbie crating. and in london, we cross into a ewing. he is a managing director of concord risk capital or a gentleman cross sack rules in effect. that means he can jump in any time he want . and i always appreciate, let me go to michael 1st thing in new york here in the conflict started about 3 months ago. and one of the things that i've been fascinated with michael is the ricochet effect of all of these sanctions. i mean, every single day, there's another layer, another unexpected consequence. and in it, there seems to be no reverse of this for the time being as matter,

the west wants to double down and where todd is in las vegas may experience a brown outs. i read this morning that france is handing out food stamps. but you know, definitely downs got to work somehow. i guess. go ahead michael. well, one of the problems of trying to be a futurist is you always assume that countries are going to act in their own self interest. and that's not what's happening now on the european countries. and i shouldn't say countries, the european politicians have been backed by. so much american meddling in europe selections for the last few years. they hide their whole future to the back in the united states. and they really feel that because the united states is sort of running the world. they are representing us interest more than european interests. and the question is now that oil prices are going up now that all of a sudden europe is essentially being squeezed out of its chemical industry. it's

fertilizer industry, it's a car industry. and at what point are they going to make a radical change? it can't be done under the current social democrats and the christian democrats and the other politicians there. it's an inherently unstable situation, but it looks like you're just going to be squeezed and squeezed by and in a way that's the effect of the nato war against russia. it's really more and more of the united states locked in control over europe in japan as satellites. and by locking it in, it's made a kind of a berlin wall, not keeping russia and out, but keeping its own allies, nato allies and dependencies and satellites in their own expenses to depend on

american oil. american gaston basically american exports and that's why the year was going down. the n is going down toward the end of the british of sterling, they're both going down to a dollar per euro, a dollar for cert, sterling and the american dollars soaring against that satellites. and you, you can just see where this is leading, yell todd, i mean id for when, when speaking of europe, a mean their productivity is going to, it's going to crash. i mean, if you don't have a stable energy relations and, you know, you know, getting off of russian oil and gas. okay. we'll go ahead do your best. but i mean, i don't think anybody voted for it. your consumer certainly aren't happy with it here. i mean, the interesting thing for me is that there's a lot of virtue signaling, but there's not much serious thinking here. i mean, like maybe and the conflict and ukraine, but maybe i get ahead of myself. you know, what europe is doing is self inflicted. what the u. s. is doing is self inflicted go head caught in las vegas. i agree. a 100 percent. i mean, you know, listen,

we just heard about talking about oil. you know, the united states stopped rolling oil on the, on the flip of a coin, and immediately after president biden took office, we were no longer an export. in fact, we can even get it, which is why inflation is going to pluto in united states of america and around the world. but again, you, you hear about the currencies, what's going on, the current caesar or fraudulent current thing to begin with, the fayette currency system is central banks are wrong, the globe basically stealing money or giving us taxation without representation, no matter where you live. yes, the dollar is much stronger against the other currency. however, the dollar doesn't buy anywhere near what it should be by. i mean, we're paying here which is cheaper compared to your were bank $5.00 a gallon for gasoline? this is a problem. it is mean self created in self promoted with the idea of bringing in

energy, which is ridiculous because it couldn't be done if they want to get it done tomorrow . and when we have a, a, the talk of rolling brown house throughout the summer, our power grid couldn't handle a green energy. i have power grid anyways. so, you know, you should have stayed and continue to produce oil. and you should have been a net exporter, which would help the u. k, which would help germany, which had helped united states and bring the price down. and that would really put pressure on russia. but yet russia is now actually driving. just take a look at the rubel, what it is dawn and it's now at about 3 or 4 year highs from or was. so there's a lot of issues you're that are all self created as you shut, you know, tony and live in london who are the biggest mom who suffers the most from the sanctions here. and again, these are not voted upon. there's not any that apparently the west is protecting the so called democracy in ukraine, but with it in the west, people are being,

are suffering because of decisions made by leaders that there they never consulted anyone with about and. and so the question is, who suffers the most from this? and there, is there any turning back? because the 2nd one is part of the program, want to talk about this, this great breached it's going on in the global economy? go ahead. tony and london. yeah, thanks a lot. in my opinion, i guess i probably have a bit of a country and you, you know, i was in russia when this happened in february and, you know, i think like like most russians, i was in shock. but then i started thinking about things and if you look at the russian economy, it, it has, it is, it is done well, but it's, it's come back in many ways to, in certain indicators where it was about 20 years ago. and from my point of view, and i'm speaking from a, from a chest playing point of view, from my point of view, the move that the president putting made in, in terms of moving in the ukraine was, was, was thoughtful,

i think. and i'm not altogether convinced that the american did not anticipate that move. and then i think on, on the parts of both the russians and american there's, and i'm talking about big business. there is a thought about all the natural resources that russia has, has that have been, that are not being exploited. and that that economy is it. technically, it could be the largest economy in the world by far. it has 3 times the amount of resources that even the state has. and yet we see an economy that is not done what it could. and so when you talk about those that are being heard in my theory about this, the idea was, was to allow the u. s. and the europeans to do the heavy lifting by 1st cutting off a lot of the oligarchs who've been choking the economy and retarding it for the last 20 years. the people that, that have owned a lot of the assets, but have stashed a lot of the money that they've, they've taken from russia and stashed abroad. and 2nd, to, to create

a level playing field. that is, when business does resume back in a rush and it will resume when, when companies do come back from the west into russia because they will be forced to. i mean, mercedes will need to, they need to have the largest market for their cars back on track. then it will not happen. they're going to come back under different terms. and i think, you know, in a, in a similar way that we saw china do this to everyone during the w t o. when, when they came to w t o. and they said, look, they're going to be new terms, new, new playing. they got rid of a large number of, of their, you know, sort of would be oligarchs, and we're able to neutralize them and to allow foreign companies to come in and do, to operate on new terms of the chinese that were favorable for china. i think, i think that's the goal here in russia, and i don't think that it's it's, it's the villain that of let me put in alone. i think this is there, a lot of people involved and i think the u. s. has been shocking for that. i think

we saw we saw some of our own politicians and their relatives doing that in ukraine so, well, i think there's, yeah, what, i've got a really good point here. i mean, it's another drift here. michael, i mean, you know, talking about coding. we're going after oligarchy, where they're not really called that anymore. that's kind of nineties term. and as far as confiscating people's property russians property in the west, i mean that is a complete breach of law and no due process. and that's going to come back and haunt the west. ok, because people are not going to trust their bank. so trust their real estate. they're not going to trust their law. ok, this is another unintended consequences shouldn't be done here. but michael, i mean, since we're talking about russia, i live here they, it's a country that is under sanction, but out, other than being able to participate in the global financial system, more or less, everything's okay. so far, michael? well, i think it's doing a favor to russia. it's a habit,

rely on its own money creation. most of russia's money and investment is domestic not born. there is no need for russia or other countries to borrow dollars to great money in their own currency, to build their own factories, more housing and more real estate to build up our economy. so by cutting russia off from dollars, it's obliged russia. so just create all of its own money that keeps all of the interest charges and the depth service within russia itself. and actually fries russia from this drain, or russia had been convinced that it somehow needed dollar credits that it doesn't need at all. so again, russia comes out of the net gainer on this. i taught it the strength of the rubel. i've really surprised a lot of people including myself, actually. i mean, it's just because it's more commodity based now because instead of just printing it,

it's based on something. it's based on something that people want, you know, oil, gas, grain, things like that, real things, not this imaginary stuff in the west. go ahead. well, i mean, again the, the, the rubel is a win win. russian forced people that they want to buy rushes natural gas. you had to pay an roubles, you couldn't pay in any other currency. so they dictated the terms to the rest of the rural. if you want our goods and, and the, the sanctions that are imaginary leads, there are really not there. and, but i know we're still doing business with russian rushes. got i key partners all deal, which is china. jain is, you know, they've been trading back in burger china and will continue to do so. and this is, and china's somewhere involved in all these things are. but the biggest problem is going to be the famine and the lack of food. and i want to, i want a grain, i want to get to that point after we go to our break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on sanctions staying with

long when alex seemed, oh, just a sheep out the same because the african and engagement it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground with a,

[000:00:00;00] with a lawyer, issue somebody over there or go with you up with it.

and i do so as you know that way. i don't mind ah, welcome back to cross stock where all things are considered on payroll about remind you were discussing sanctions. ah. okay, let's go back to tanya in las vegas right before when did the break you? he started mentioning about the issue of a food insecurity in the world. i really would like to point out when there's no shortage of food. it's sanctions and it's so supply chain issues here. okay. i think a lot of the media has been very, very dishonest and talking about this issue and it's fear mongering, but sanctions to play a role. and so the supply issues here, so to todd, to take it from there because this is an issue i asked earlier in the program, who suffers the most?

what's got was going to be the poorest that's going to some of the most in the, in the building world and in the developed world. go ahead, todd. i think the, the biggest sufferers are going to be, i was you said the poor a lot of africa and of course the middle east, which is, is desperate for, for russian week and for ukrainian weight. and the atlas and they supply 30 percent of the world's crops. and you know, we say everything's okay. however you have, you had a bad year in australia, which is a big producer. you had a bad year in brazil. and if united states doesn't produce, it's going to create a lot more of a real shortage of food products as you're in, you're going to do there is a good chance you will see united states $10.00 for a low for bread next year. wow. already running into trouble with these high commodity prices and the inability plus a bag that russia control some key components for fertilizer, which is also short. so you're seeing a lot of things driven for no reason, except for that we have a,

a war in ukraine and russia. and we have the outside world trying to dictate terms of our russia analyst, which is not going to work unless you, if you only weaken, hurt them is 3rd them financially. right? that is to produce oil and noted states, then you could actually hurt russia and urban financially. but the way we're going about things is really just making more problems for the rest of the world, including us itself. and it's michael, you erase your finger there, you want to say something. go ahead. yes, you mentioned on north africa and the poor, the squeeze on oil prices and on food prices is going to cause and balance and payments prices for latin america for africa. and for much of asia, and this is coming at a time when their foreign debts are falling due. and there is no way that these countries didn't pay their dollar eyes deaths and also afford to import the energy and the food to keep them going. so what united states is doing is planted

a time bomb that will be exploding by september when the foreign debt service is coming due. and you're about to see a lot of defaults. and at this point, russia and china can come in and say, we will provide you with not with the oil, the food around the sanctions, and you're having the chance of the whole world splitting into 2 block. yes, an american ain't no block. and russia, china and your asia and the southern hemisphere all together. i'm glad you mentioned that tony. let's, let's interested in go ahead and jump in. go ahead tony. i just because it doesn't seem to be the goal. i mean, you know, to me, since, since the cold war ended, and i, i remember when, when, you know, when i was in graduate school and people that were getting physics ph. she's, we're talking about what are they going to do now, because, you know, there's, there's no more enemy for them due to, they can't get high salary going into 2 government offices because the, you know, there's, there's no more enemy for us to fight. then, you know, since that time we've been,

we've been having little wars in the middle east little words here. i think the goal was to get another cold war, isn't it? and to divide the world into, into 2 halves, where we're in effect, we still would have. busy control over over some domain and everyone would, would need to, to rely upon the u. s. suit for permission to do whatever they need to do. and we really didn't want globalization. so i, i kind of feel like this is done on purpose and that this is that, you know, isolating. russia was, was part of that plan. it was, it was, it was never the acceptance of the fact that perhaps we could actually be allies at some point after, after, on the ronald reagan years. we, we kind of thought, well, let's, let's continue and see if we can still get profitable. you know, profitable deals for our defense contractors. they're shooting off those, those javelins that are 250000 pop in ukraine, all 24 hours a day. now, you know, those are things that people are benefiting from. so when you talk about the losers, you also get to talk about the winners in the winter seem to be pushing for this,

this sort of 2nd cold for cold war, away in that on time. because i mean, i, if, whether it was the intent or not, what i see is that we are going to have to globalization 2 separate ones. they're not going to have a whole lot of contact with each other. because well, i'm, i'm, i'm very cynical the, the u. s. wants to gemini, they don't like challenger's ok and if you, if you challenge them either you know, isolate them or destroy them, that may be the best option. and here is just not talk to each other. go ahead, taught in las vegas. i think the united states is driving along with other partners at ross a globe on identify at the moment, but probably china and others is to bring it into total globalization and ignore and, and break out all the metal classes across the globe and make this an i socialistic world where we don't have any more small business, you have no more competition for the big vendors, the big, the big dealers. you know, whether to be from the defense side of the world, or from the facebook and google's of the world who will no longer have competition

. if you break out all the middle of last year, bust everybody out. and you have just one big socialized world. you have no more competition, you have no more real desire to go to work and cree 8. you've destroy an entire class of people and that's what it looks like is happening to me throughout. and that is very much in, on par with what goes on and russia and china all the time. and i think this is where the united states is headed under their current regime and current policy. michael way in on that about this, this, the, these 2 blocks of globalization, do you see it that way? i, and is it, is it, is it inherently stable or unstable? go ahead. michael is not simply a group of one countries, nato and the u. s. against others, it's a conflict of economic systems in the united states system is a financial i system that's not written. capitalism is finance capitalism. and it's, it's a push the united states into a depression,

a death deflation. the united states is the industrialized because it's so high cost because it's financial ised in russia, china, and eurasia. they can create finance not to increase stock and bond braces or the wealth of the one percent. they can create actual means of production for the 99 percent. so it's a conflict of system a g a. what candidates are tony? what is the fate of the dollar in all of this here? because i, over the years i've done a number of programs about dollarization, that was more in theory. now it seems like in reality, as i pointed out here, if you're seizing people's assets and things like that, you know, venezuela were russia, iraq. and they did, the thought is, you know, why should i get involved in their financial system? if you're going to steal it from me, ok. people don't want to do that. ok. and they're working now in their own currencies. there is something that started about 20 years ago. it's certainly accelerated. go ahead tony. i think the dollars under serious threat. i mean, i think the, you know, you,

you wouldn't even need to go as far as overseas. if you could look at what's happening domestically. i mean, our colleagues are on the show, pointed out that we've got we're, we're, we're facing hyperinflation. we're facing a situation where in effect, the dollar, regardless of what the, the, the quoted parodies are abroad. it, it simply does it by what it used to, whether that's domestic or, or foreign. i think when you do look abroad and you and you, you, you also think about the concept of crypto currency. for example. i mean, we had, the administration come out, you know, a month or so ago talking about a dollar crypto or crypto dollar. but you know, years ago when, when several of us were talking about the need for crypto currency to be embraced, perhaps by the united states. by other countries, no one wanted it, no one had interest in it. now that the dollars under threat to me, i see that that crypto dollar is really just, you know, grasping at straws. and i think there there's, there's desperation there to somehow stabilize the dollar. and for the reasons that

my colleagues here have said, you know, we, we have, we have a world where there's an energy crisis that's coming. we have a food crisis that's coming, both of which are artificial. you're busy. yeah. trying to tony tony, they're artificial. okay. that this is what really gets to me. okay. they are artificial. they're, they're, it's because of her politics. politics is creating the shortage. ok, that number up and running out of time. let me go to tell them, go to tell her. israel is of production. we know most of the press is full of crap and creates fear in their fear miger. however, in this particular case, there is a real shortage and in the united states doesn't have a big crop production. with the lack of russia there is going to be a shortage. and and again, it's been a mean that people are going to pay a lot more to eat. and that's going to really hurt the, the middle east and some of the small poor countries. and, and the, the, the overall and overwhelming manipulation, fraudulent behavior by the central banks around the world, which really get into destruct currencies, which is trying to get to

a digital coin versus a crypto coin. i think there's a big difference there. crypt, those are real because they cannot be interfered with with the by a central banking system. that is whole theory behind crypto currencies. what the, what the world wants, and certainly they'd cedrin as a digital coin, which they can all still it will, did the value and make word last, make your spending power were last and make you live, work harder to live the same life you live before and this is, these are the bigger problems yet, or been created by these high dollars and high kurt low currencies across the globe because they're all, no matter what number they're sure boring are worth less today than they were yesterday. okay, let me go to michael. michael todd sat in the program that we could face a $10.00 her loaf of bread. what are the social and political implications of that in what we saw we think of is the prosperous west. michael were in a death deflation,

were not in an inflation. there may be for the 3rd world countries in the global so their current season will go down against the dollar because of their balance of payments deficits. the paper, food, and oil. for the a global sentence, there will be a currency depreciation. but in the united states, it's written, it's such heavy debt. that's not the case and other parts of the world and the v, as you pointed out, it doesn't have to be this way. there's no real shortage. it is an artificial shortage created by american policy. and the world does not have to suffer. there's a way for it to get by and it looks to me like the way to get by is to throw in with the countries that are growing with your asia, with russia, china, iran, india. that is going to be the new center of the world, essentially just leaving the united states and europe to, to shrink. well, i mean, my call i, i essentially agree with you and i don't think there's any turning back. i don't

think there's going to be a return to what we had before before a february 24th of this year. i think it is a breach in a very serious one, and it's going to we can rely upon people like my panel here to help us navigate the future. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in new york, las vegas and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c next time. remember cross talk with ah ah, ah ah, ah,

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