ah ah ah ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to crosstalk, were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle, the drive to sanction russia in any one who does business with russia is wrecking havoc on the global economy. the goal is to punish russia so far the russian economy remain stable. this cannot be said for other economies around the world. in fact, those who sanction are feeling enormous pain and suffering. ah

cross sucking sanctions. i'm joined by my guess, michael hudson in new york. he is a professor of economics at the university, missouri, kansas city, as well as author of forgive them their debts. in las vegas, we have taught horowitz, he is the chief market strategist at baba crating. and in london, we cross into a ewing. he is a managing director of concord risk capital or a gentleman cross sock rules and effect. that means he can jump in any time he want . and i always appreciate, let me go to michael 1st thing in new york here in the conflict started about 3 months ago. and one of the things that i've been fascinated with michael is the ricochet effect of all of the sanctions. i mean, every single day there's another layer, another unexpected consequence and, and in it, there seems to be no reverse of this for the time being. as matter of fact, on the west wants to double down. as i'm aware,

todd is in las vegas may experience a brown outs. i read this morning that france is handing out food stamps. um, but you know, doubling downs. got to work somehow. i guess go ahead, michael. well, one of the problems of trying to be a futurist is you always assume that countries are going to act in their own self interest. and that's not what's happening now, the european countries, and i shouldn't say countries, the european politicians have been back by so much american meddling in europe selections for the last few years. they hide their whole future to the back in the united states. and they really feel that was the united states and sort of running the world. they are representing us interest more than european interest. and the question is now that oil prices are going up, now that all of a sudden europe is essentially being we just out of its chemical industry,

fertilizer industry. it's a car industry. and at what point are they going to make a radical change? it can be done under the current social democrats and the christian democrats and the other politicians. there is an inherently unstable situation, but it looks like you're going to be squeezed and squeezed by and in a way that's the effect of the nato war against russia. it's really more and more of the united states locking in control over europe in japan as satellites. and by locking it in, it's made a kind of a berlin wall, not keeping russia and out, but keeping its own allies, nato allies and dependencies and satellites in their own expense to depend on

american oil, american gas, and basically american exports. and that's why the year was going down, the n is going down toward the british of sterling, they're both going down to a dollar per year, or dollar sterling and ah, the american dollars soaring against the satellites. and you, you can just see where this is leading, yell todd, i mean, i the pretty it, when, when speaking of europe, a mean there productivity is going to, it's going to crash. i mean, if you don't have a stable energy relations and, you know, you know, getting off of russian oil and gas, okay. will you go ahead do your best, but i mean, i don't think anybody voted for it. your consumer certainly aren't happy with it. here. i mean, the interesting thing for me is that there's a lot of virtue signaling, but there's not much serious thinking here. i mean, like maybe end the conflict in ukraine, but maybe i get ahead of myself. you know, what europe is doing is self inflicted. what the us is doing is self inflicted go, had taught in las vegas, mom. i agree, a 100 percent. i mean, you know, listen,

we just heard about talking about oil. you know, the united states stopped rolling oil on the, on the flip of a coin, and immediately after president biden took office, we were no longer an export. in fact, we can even get it, which is why inflation is going to pluto in united states of america and around the world. but again, do you hear about the currencies? what's going on? the currencies are fraudulent. current thing to begin with, the fayette currency system is central banks are wrong. the globe basically stealing money or giving us taxation without representation, no matter where you live. yes, the dollar is much stronger against the other currency. however, the dollar doesn't buy anywhere near what it should be by. i mean we're paying here, which is cheaper compared to your, but we're bank by dollars a gallon for gasoline. this is a problem. it is mean self created in self promoted with the idea of bringing in green energy, which is ridiculous because it couldn't be done if they want to get it done

tomorrow. and when we have a, the talk of rolling brown house throughout the summer, our power grid couldn't handle a green and of power. good anyways. so you know, you should have save and continue to produce oil. and you should have been a net exporter, which would help the u. k, which would help germany, which would help united states and bring the price down. and that would really put pressure on russia. but yet russia is now actually driving. just take a look at the rubel, what it is dawn and it's now at about 3 or 4 year highs from or was so there's a lot of issues you're that are all self created as you shut. you know, tony in line and who are the biggest, who suffers the most from the sanctions here. and again, these are not voted upon. there's not any that. apparently the west is protecting the so called democracy in ukraine. but with in the west, people are being, are suffering because of decisions made by leaders that there they never consulted

anyone with about and, and so the question is, who suffers the most from this? and there, is there any turning back? because the 2nd one part of the program want to talk about this, this great breached it's going on in the global economy. go ahead. tony in london. yeah, thanks a lot. in my opinion, i guess i probably have a bit of a country and you know, i was in russia when this happened in february and, you know, i think like like most russians, i was in shock. but then i started thinking about things. and if you look at the russian economy, it, it has, it is, it is done well, but it's, it's come back in many ways to, in certain indicators where it was about 20 years ago. and from my point of view, and i'm speaking from a, from a chest playing point of view, from my point of view, the move that the president putting made in, in terms of moving in the ukraine was, was, was thoughtful. i think i'm not altogether convinced that the american did not anticipate

that move. and then i think on, on the parts of both the russians and americans there's, and i'm talking about big business. there is a thought about all the natural resources that russia has, has that have been, that are not being exploited. and that that economy is it. technically, it could be the largest economy in the world by far. it has 3 times the amount of resources that even the state has. and yet we see an economy that has not done what it could. and so when you talk about those that are being hurt in my, my theory about this, the idea was, was to allow the u. s. and the europeans to, to do the heavy lifting by 1st cutting off a lot of the oligarchs who've been choking the economy and retarding it for the last 20 years. the people that, that have owned a lot of the assets, but have stashed a lot of the money that they've, they've taken from russia and stashed abroad. and 2nd, to, to create a level playing field. that is, when business does resume back in

a rush and it will resume when, when companies do come back from the west into russia because they will be forced to. i mean, mercedes will need to, they need to have the largest market for their cars back on track. then in when that happens, they're going to come back under different terms. and i think, you know, in a, in a similar way that we saw china do this to everyone during w t o. when, when they came to w t o and they said, look, they're going to be new terms, new, new playing. they got rid of a large number of, of their, you know, sort of would be oligarchs, and were able to neutralize them and to allow foreign companies to come in and do, to operate on new terms of the chinese that were favorable for china. i think, i think that's the goal here in russia, and i don't think that it's if it's the villain that of let me alone. i think this is there. a lot of people involved and i think the u. s. has been shocking for that

. i think we saw we saw some of our own politicians and their relatives doing that in ukraine so, well, i think there's, yeah, well, i've got a really good point here. i mean, it's another griff here, michael, i mean, you know, talking about coding. we're going after all ago, so they're not really called out anymore. that's kind of a ninety's term. and as far as confiscating people's property russians property in the west, i mean that is a complete breach of law and no due process. and that's going to come back and haunt the west. ok, because people are not going to trust their banks and touch their real estate. they're not going to trust their law. ok, this is another unintended consequence. it shouldn't be done here. but michael, i mean, since we're talking about russia, i live here they, it's a country that is under sanction, but out, other than being able to participate in the global financial system, more or less, everything's okay. so far, michael? well, i think it's doing a favor to russia. it's a habit, rely on its own money creation. most of the rushes,

money and investment is domestic not born. there is no need for russia or other countries to borrow dollars to create money in their own currency, to build their own factories, more housing and more real estate. so to build up our economy. so, by cutting russia off from dollars, it's obliged russia to just create all of its own money that keeps all of the interest charges. and the depth service within russia itself. and actually fries russia from this drain or russia had been convinced that it somehow needed dollar credits that it doesn't need at all. so again, russia comes out of the net gainer on this. i taught it the strength of the rubel. i've really surprised a lot of people including myself, actually. i mean it's, it's because it's more commodity based now because instead of just printing it, it's based on something. it's based on something that people want, you know, oil,

gas, grain, things like that, real things, not this imaginary stuff in the west. go ahead. well, i mean again the, the, the rubel is a win win. russian forced people that they want to buy rushes natural gas. you had to pay in roubles, you couldn't pay in any other currency. so they dictated the terms to the rest of the rule. if you want are goods and, and the sanctions that are imaginary, these, there are really not there. and, but i know we're still doing business with russian. russia got a key partners all deal, which is china. jain is, you know, they've been trading back in burger china and will continue to do so. and this is in china somewhere involved in all these things are. but the biggest problem is going to be the famine and the lack of food. and i want to, i want to great, i want to get to that point after we go to our break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on sanctions state with

ah ah, lisa hunter, russian state will never. i've stayed on the most. i'm keen with eclipse in 55 with speaking with ben in the european union. the kremlin jeff machine estate aunt rush up to date and school r t spoke that given our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube. with

me. oh, he's just tried tale. this alliance between the marcos isn't that the dirt is somehow gets reflected throughout the next 6 years. this i would even called promiscuous power sharing would even mean that perhaps it would be sirens and tara did that. we had run in 2028 with another mark was as a running mate, and then they will just switch. and this will happen for years in years simply because the dynasty part dale will solidify ah a

minute thought at home. you, i mean, you a merge, we keep pretty much like a, do you live muscles do california initial be? well, of course, not again, had you post on zillow be else can use the put value, a new one who did origin, but he also still listed on the lewis green. he did mostly, i didn't know so much of that. going to put that on the building just to do what i see, the student bosses though group you motivation, says dc, a gumbo sub i look forward to talking to you on that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings,

except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously, is to create trust rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect his own existence with ah, welcome back to craft stock where all things are considered on people about remind you we're discussing sanctions. ah, okay, let's go back to tanya in las vegas right before when did the break. you started mentioning about the issue of

a food insecurity in the world. i really would like to point out when there's no shortage of food. it's sanctions and it's so supply chain issues here. ok. i do a lot of the media has been very, very dishonest and talking about this issue and it's fear mom ring but sanctions to play a role and suff supply issues here. so to todd, to take it from there because this is an issue i asked earlier in the program, who suffers the most? what's always going to be the poorest that's going to some of the most in the, in the building world and in the developed world. go ahead, todd. i think the, the biggest sufferers are going to be, i was you said the poor a lot of africa and of course the middle east, which is, is desperate for, for russian week and for ukrainian weight. and the atlas and they supply 30 percent of the world's crops. and you know, we say everything's okay. however you have, you had a bad here in australia, which is a big producer. you had a bad your brazil. and if united states doesn't produced, it's going to create

a lot more of a real shortage of food products this year. and you're going to do, there's a good chance you will see united states $10.00 for a loaf of bread next year. wow. already running into trouble with these high commodity prices and the inability plus a bag that russia control some key components for fertilizer, which is also short. so you're seeing a lot of things driven for no reason, except for that we have a, a war in ukraine and russia. and we have the outside world trying to dictate terms of our russia analyst, which is not going to work unless you, if you only weaken, hurt them is 3rd them financially. the only way to that is to produce oil and i had states, then you could actually hurt russia and urban financially. but the way we're going about things is really just making more problems for the rest of the world, including us itself. and is michael, you erased your finger that you want to say something? go ahead. yes, you mentioned on north africa and either or the, a squeeze on oil prices and on food prices is going to cause and balance and

payments prices for latin america, for africa. and for much of asia, and this is coming at a time when their foreign debts are falling due. and there's no way that these countries didn't pay their dollar eyes deaths and also afford to, or the energy and the food keep them going. so what united states is doing is planning a time bomb that will be exploding by september when the foreign debt service is coming due. and you're about to see a lot of defaults. and at this point, russia and china come in and say, we will provide you with not with the oil, the food around the sanctions, and you're having the chance of the whole world splitting into to block has no block and russia, china and eurasia. and the southern hemisphere all together. i'm glad you mentioned that tony. let's, let's address we didn't want to go ahead and jump in. go ahead tony. but i was,

it doesn't seem to be the goal. i mean, you know, to me, since, since the cold war ended, i remember when, when, you know, when i was in graduate school and people that were getting physics, ph. d, 's were talking about, what are they going to do now? because, you know, there's, there's no more enemy for them do to, they can't get high salaries going into to government offices because the, you know, there's no more enemy for us to fight. then, you know, since that time we've been, we've been having little wars in the middle east little words here. i think the goal was to get another cold war, isn't it? and to divide the world into, into 2 halves where we're in effect we still would have some. busy control over over some domain and everyone would, would need to rely upon the u. s. for permission to do whatever they need to do. and we really didn't want globalization. so i kind of feel like this is done on purpose and that this is this, but, you know, isolating. russia was, was part of that plan. it was, it was, it was never the acceptance of the fact that perhaps we could actually be allies at some point after, after, on the ronald reagan years, we kind of thought, well,

let's, let's continue and see if we can still get profitable. you know, profitable deals for our defense contractors. they're shooting off those, those javelin that are 250000 pop in ukraine, all 24 hours a day. now those are things that people are benefiting from. so when you talk about the losers, you also get to talk about the winter in the winter, seem to be pushing for this, this sort of 2nd cold for cold war away in that on time. because i mean, i, if, whether it was the intent or not, what i see is that we're going to have to globalization 2 separate ones. they're not going to have a whole lot of contact with each other. because, well, i'm, i'm, i'm very cynical. the, the u. s. wants to gemini, they don't like challenger's ok and if you, if you challenge them either you know, isolate them or destroy them, that maybe the best option here is just not talk to each other. go ahead, taught in las vegas. i think the united states is driving along with other partners across the globe on identify at the moment,

but probably china and others is to bring it into total globalization and ignore and break out all the middle classes across the globe and make this and i socialistic world where we don't have any more small business, you have no more competition for the big vendors, the big, the big dealers. you know, whether to be from the defense side of the world, or from the facebook and google's of the world, who will no longer have competition. if you break out all the middle of last year, bust everybody out. and you have just one big socialized world. you have no more competition, you have no more real desire to go to work and create you've, you've destroyed an entire class of people and that's what it looks like of having a me throughout. and that is very much in, on par with what goes on in russia and china all the time. and i think this is where the united states is headed under the current regime and current policy. michael way in on that about this, this is the, these 2 blocks of globalization. do you see it that way?

i, and is it, is it, is it inherently stable or unstable? go ahead. michael is not simply a group of one countryside, nato and the u. s. against others, it's a conflict of economic systems in the united states system is of financial ice system that's not written. capitalism is finance capitalism. and it's, it's a push the united states into a depression, a depth deflation. the united states as d industrialized, because it's so high cost because it's financial ised in russia, china and eurasia. they can create finance not to increase stock and bond braces or the wealth of the one percent. they can create actual means of production for the 99 percent. so it's a conflict of system that much more than g. a. what candidates are tony? what is the fate of the dollar in all of this here? because i, over the years i've done a number of programs about who dollarization that was more in theory. now it seems

like in reality, as i pointed out here, if you're seizing people's assets and things like that, you know, venezuela were russia, iran, and they did, the thought is, you know, why should i get involved in their financial system? if you're going to steal it from me, ok. people don't want to do that. ok. and they're working now in their own currencies. there is something that started about 20 years ago. it's certainly accelerated. go ahead, tony. i think the dollars under serious threat. i mean, i think the, you know, you, you wouldn't even know need to go as far as overseas. i mean, you could look at what's happening domestically. i mean, our colleagues are on the show, pointed out that we've got we're, we're, we're facing hyperinflation, where we're facing a situation where in effect, the dollar, regardless of what the, the quoted parodies are abroad. it, it simply does it by what it used to, whether that's domestic or, or foreign. i think when you do look abroad and you and you, you, you also think about the concept of crypto currency. for example. i mean, we had, the administration come out, you know, a month or so ago talking about

a dollar crypto or crypto dollar. but you know, years ago when, when several of us were talking about the need for crypto currency to be embraced, perhaps by the united states. by other countries, no one wanted to, no one had interest in it. now that the dollars under threat to me, i see that that crypto dollar is really just a grasping at straws them. and i think they're there there's, there's desperation there to somehow stabilize the dollar. and for the reasons that my colleagues here of said, you know, we, we have, we have a world where there's an energy crisis that's coming. we have a food crisis that's coming both of which are artificial here by the yeah. trying to tony tony, they're artificial. okay. that this is what really gets to me. okay. they are artificial. they're there. it's because of her politics. politics is creating a shortage. ok. that number up and running out of time, let me go to let me go to charge israel as a production. we know most of the press is full of crap and creates fear in there for minor. however, in this particular case, there is a real shortage and,

and in the united states doesn't have a big crop production with the lack of russia there is going to be a shortage. and, and again, it's been a mean that people are gonna pay a lot more to eat, and that's going to really hurt the, the middle east, and some of the small poor countries. and, and the, the, the overall and overwhelming manipulation. fraudulent behavior by the central banks around the world, which really can enter destruct the currencies, which is trying to get to a digital coin versus a crypto coin. i think there's a big difference there. crypt, those are real because they cannot be interfered with with the by a central banking system. that is the whole theory behind crypto currencies. what the, what the world wants and certainly thy vedrine. i was a digital coin, which they can all still it will, did the value and make more last, make your spending power worth less and make you live, work harder to live the same life you live before. and this is, these are the bigger problems yet. are being created by these high dollars and high

kurt low currencies across the globe because they're all, no matter what number they're sure quoting are worth less today than they were yesterday. okay, let me go to michael. michael todd said in the program that we could face, i $10.00 her loaf of bread. what are the social and political implications of that in what we saw? we think of is the prosperous west. michael, we're in a dead deflation. we're not in an inflation. there may be a 3rd world countries in the global so their current season will go down against the dollar because of their balance and payments deficits, the paper, food, and oil. for the global south, there will be a currency depreciation. but in the united states, it's written as such heavy debt that's not the case and other parts of the world and the view is you've just pointed out it doesn't have to be this way. there's no real shortage. it is an artificial shortage created by american policy and the

world does not have to suffer. there's a way for it to get by and it looks to me like the way to get by is to throw in with the countries that are growing with eurasia, with russia, china, iran, india, that is going to be the new center of the world, essentially just leaving the united states and europe to, to shrink. well, i mean, michael, i, i essentially agree with you and i don't think there's any turning back. i don't think there's going to be a return to what we had before before a february 24th of this year. i think it is a breach in a very serious one, and it's good. we can rely upon people like my panel here to help us navigate the future. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in new york, las vegas and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are key. see you next time. remember cross talk with ah,

a ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on, often very dramatic. development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with

people's republic says they have gained control of 220 localities from ukrainian forces in the war up to 3 months ago. and russia doubled down on terrorism accusations against clear troops in the dawn, but you have protests or up to in reaction to a deadly school shooting as texas police admit, they made the crucial mistakes when responding to the emergency and political tensions and pakistan clear up as the new government increases fuel prices and supporters of the recently outed prime minister in con, believe that he would have prevented that from happening. the ministers are inside air conditioned rules, enjoying air condition, car.