ah, a you know, there was no program when i left i kind of and all of us at life, esther hate kind of stumbled our way through it. and then we can take the lessons that we've learned from that and shrink the time frame down. so there's less was less wandering in the wilderness, so to speak. when i was in the move in the last 2 years, before i left, i was struggling with do i want to leave? i like, pardon me, want to leave another part in it has been battle with us. if i leave, i have nothing to fall back on. i have that deposit to do. i have nobody to go to, you know me and lived around last 7 years. i have nothing sometimes it's hard if they've got a swastika tattooed on their neck, it's hard for them, but just to say,

i don't do that anymore. it's kind of a long process. it's not like you just leave it one day and you're like, well, i'm glad that's over. i had been out of that movement before i got connected with these guys, but i was on my own and didn't talk about it and had a lot of buried shame and guilt. and then i met these guys and i saw, you know, frankly talking arnold talk, it helped me get past that barrier of feeling like i had to hide this from world that opening up has really just taken my, my healing process and my evolution to a whole level really, you've gotta find a way to find an affirmation that every discussion, no matter how bad it feels, it is going. you've just got to be able to acknowledge like takes guts to do that. try to help them discover the abilities that they have. this is why we don't want to foster dependency. this is why the intervention can't rely on my christmas. they go from being untrusting hateful, spiteful, distant, to begging for more interaction another phone call. another meeting in

a tell me poor and don't be surprised when they say that's the best conversation i've had in a long time. that is something that's very routine that comes out of the people just want to be listened to. and we're trying to teach you how to listen to them while we hold a mirror up. so the person can see their humanity reflected back at them through our eyes. but when we treat them as human beings treat them for the suffering person that they are. and they, on the receiving end of that, they get to see that, hey there's, there is a human insights. and lastly, i think the incredible power of passion, it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, she heard my story did nothing to challenge it but validated the soon as i started talking about, my mother tears came out. i just spilled my guts about everything she had done to me. letting her brother raised me and my sister denying the rape half and making us

go back around. how many times she she tried to kill me, broken bones, bruises the starvation, the sleep deprivation, the humiliation making me swallow my own. my brothers and sisters watching is turning my brother against me. keep my sister away from me like i had never had a chance to just unleash all. and i probably went on like an hour of just the stuff she did to me. and he says what i want to ask another question. have you ever done this to anyone else? just in that moment it was like i'm just like my mother me. what really

changed me was receiving compassion from the people that i least deserved from when i least deserved. people knew who i was, it was a small town, they knew what i was capable of and what i'd been doing for years and they didn't attack me. they didn't break the windows of my star, then argue ideologically with me. they came in and they were empathetic towards me, and they treated me with compassion despite the horrible person that i was at the time. the buddy might offer me a job carrying in antique furniture at cherry hall, new jersey mall for weekend 3 days, 100 bucks a day. and i told him, i said, i think the job, he was going to tell you, before you say yes, the guy who owns this company is do. and i said,

i don't care and i've talked to him, do i want to work for his name? that's 6 months. i still think it was in the nazi shift would fit every jewish stereotyping or religious where you like me. i don't bring them right or you know say where i broke the marble top table and i was like, i'm so stupid. i'm so sorry. 7 bears for him. so i so hours a day rate for the customer, but he spot it off of very drove me home. i was waiting for him to fire me. so actually, you know, and i remember him not too much on that day, and i've kept my boots on this little seat of his trunk that you couldn't really put them any further than they were. and i know my knees were hurting so bad because it's trying to hold him up there. so for the whole ride home swastikas

looks at him every day like it is a nominee or nazi. and i just wanted to see my boots. i knew him and what he did for me. they dropped me off and they were full pay. take anything i pay. monday. i walked home and i just can wait. just pretend things on my feet. everyone back. i'm not scared. i wanted him. i'm done with it, i'm fluid if it was 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremist group, the 1st part is disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. you leave the behavior you leave, but you probably still have the ideology. you've been given this nice recipe for how the world works and you take that away from somebody and then what do they have, right? they, they were looking for an analysis and you've taken away their analysis. so,

you know, what's left drugs, i mean there all kinds of things that they can just sort of fall into. so you have to be very careful about it. and when you're bringing them out, you will learn them to the risks. this isn't going to be easy and they're going to be people that are angry that do this because they've lost someone, they've been better at the time and energy and we do debriefing. you know, if you're going to be on the outside, we need to know everything you know about how it works on the inside cuz you're not going back in. so we're, since we're going to burn those help you burn those bridges. so you can't go back and take everything away that was associated with that world. we take away your white laces. we take away your nazi fly because it's too easy to go back into. the next part is d. radicalization where the belief systems in the audiology are removed or you can go to go get an anti metabolic cobra for a couple weeks. may get your rates at the same time as snake that big. that's how they do it. we're at the anti vent on demand because we have, we had that many in our so we not as spirit and we know how to also make it an anti

mental and we had the answer. so i do believe the secret sauce is coming from a loving place. you can't hate this person and expect to communicate any of that. you can't judge this person and expect to calmer, that with empathy before you got out what was what was pushing you to want to get up. jackson, you know, before and after present, you know, muslim best friends, but it's like ok in prison. you know, like, you know, you have to be so you pretend to be it. and after a while, before you realize it in a scary is you actually become that image. you were just training. i had myself every day for getting myself locked up. so when i looked at it, what made anybody else more special than me? so i have of them. where did that shift come from? how come you? you went from not thinking about that to really saying i need to start making some changes. is watching to see what's most under up and heart wrenched and every time

watching the family, you know, saying live on the, on the family because i can be out there. the brothers didn't like that when they found because they could just let me alone. and it's been a big deal, said they, you know, try to kill, why now? i get shot. i go off the road and i'm, you know, i'm going to come to the car, breaks the brakes. and i remember slicing south car up, right. like i said, yes, good. you need just mad right across. and then we inside school and open this, i get out and just to get on time if there was one thing, then someone stuck in that it was someone in that life who may not be aware that

there is a way out. what would you say go all the have that have ruins . you poisoned your very soul, man. i don't a lot of human since really during the summer in 2016, we started to see a significant consistent increase in the number of incidents reported to our office . we saw between 20152016. the number of anti muslim hate groups tripled. tonight the f. b, i walking into whether have crime charges will be filed against an alleged white supremacists, accused of stabbing to good samaritans to death on a commuter train. in portland. the guy who did that was someone who had been in the fringes of the all right, movement america play the country are great on there that

we hear that all the time go back to where you came from. and he just amped up that rhetoric that he wants to take his country back. and so that's that, that's the theme that runs through that. and we're not going to let people come into our country. troy. i saw this guy running for president doing the exact same thing and i couldn't believe that i was hearing it, but i knew that it would work. and that was the frightening thing because i've seen it work on klan rally and stone mountain georgia. i saw that kind of rhetoric where people are yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. what do we do about their culture? i don't want to know about their culture. if you want your body, you could just go back to much, much bucket of gasoline was kicked over and lit up all those little sparks and already existed

into a large forest buyer. part of donald trump's huge appeal was that although he does not think in terms of race, the way i do, he at least thinks in terms of nation, he recognized that the united states is a nation with a particular people. and that not everybody belongs. this is a great relief to millions of people who have seen their nation transformed in the name of diversity diversity that always comes at the expense of white people. he spoke to some of the things that, that angry white male wants to hear. we're going to put a wall on the border. we're going to make the mexicans pay forward. we're going to bring manufacturing jobs backs as a kind of populous message. white males combined with racism that was found to be very attractive and everyone's promises like that idea. well, there's not insur tens of thousands this hundreds of thousands of them that have an intellectual curiosity in the understanding of national socialism that the skin had

ever had. there was a price you paid if you were public with your big tree or anti semitism. it didn't serve you well in your career. your friends in your neighborhood really weren't excited to hang out with you. your kids might be embarrassed of you. your parents would be really upsetting you and people learned that those attitudes were not going to be beneficial to their life. i think what we're concerned about now is that blanket in that we put over it is being pulled back. that it's going to be really hard to put that back where it was with ah

ah it less than 3 months the west ukraine narrative has been turned on its head. ukraine is not waiting. it's steadily losing. the west is not unified. in fact, divisions are widening. the rushing economy is weathering, massive sanctions. western economies are in trouble. who will blame 1st? with ah, there was a state of emergency in florida. it's

a white nationalist, was about to take stage in the 3 hour day. university of florida is breaking for potential violence today of a speech by white nationalist later richard spencer, who do the protesters gathering out? so i decided the only reason i say, but i will say that back to you all right. and read the notion that they really were that way to find a spencer trying to speak to the noise with

that. so you know how to check with these guy guy's gonna get killed that here. so i got, i got this guy coming to hey, people who say,

oh is all love we hey, hey hey hey, love please. same people said a message, a hate when i post randy, you know, i came home. i don't want to talk to you, you know, understand you. he will cool. no problem the whole time. we couldn't really have a discussion because these camera, you know, you people question i get done with what was it was go find more really intimate said neil, i don't know if i'm talking to you can be like really and i guess our intimate said was force known as we were both keep out. so we encountered some police officers, they were treating randy how they would treat me on a regular day, you know, just are for what they perceive by his, our parents and in the end of one arrest in. yeah, i right,

this made you got beat on spin. all you see the sped on the back is it usually is, mom was what is he doing wrong? why he hasn't been sit on the ground, do this type of stuff. so we actually started walking and talking and we found out we have things in common. you know, i some his views about certain bay. it was certain stuff girl and both. yeah. he was telling me he got involved in his teenage years in the area nation. and i said a lot of my friends and different people get involved in a blow to cripps in different games they joined. that's what's around you. so what i was around you and your friends, maybe involved whatever happens your, my state is going to be on that. so for me, i just saw the similarities of what my culture would deal with just in a little different way. there's no, there's nothing new up on it. a son. his was just a different route. they angry white man, angry by 2 different people. the angry black man is angry because he has no home, has no vision, no way to provide angry white people, especially in

a low income cause they have so many mental enrollment of that. you can just turn on the tv and see success. i mean, now i would be proud to have down at the bottom with black people when they got a reason to be you know, i'm white. what am i know? it is a diesel. you'll see the thing around. and you know, when your doctor, the doctor, any better way to focus on it or that they don't nice people is a different color, i guess a white man because he's angry because he doesn't really understand was personally know that america. he doesn't even say i got the way out for the blessed waiting to hear the 1st is back. i mean, everybody. that's why it in america has benefited on give me answer that color or response davis or miss, you know, busy right now,

giving me or help me. i got somebody to understand that just tell me what my culture as a whole and look it differently just because of my individual encounter. we talk to every week or 23 times. we lease that lease due to time phone calls, you know, hours of phone calls, you know, we've broward me. i mean, when you think about what you've done just in the last month, the turn around the correction the what you've abandoned and what you would opted. it's most people can't even use 10 pounds, they want to lose much less make an entire mental, emotional lifestyle change to humanize town, which allows them to humanize your like that, that's not rocket science, but yeah,

it's, it's evading. the majority of the country right now. there's a lot, i could, i could never look at anybody and eric eric umbrella, who nation, anybody who got a lot of on the same lack of i got free and that that was part of his narrative and changes his narrative. not that we agree with anything that comes out of the far right is that we don't ever forget that there are people inside of those people. you know that there's a human being inside of this person, right. and we just choose not to forget that you don't really see x not seen the batman, you know, have a lot of dialogue as we do. but i mean, i can consider him a friend. i was glad that i could have that effect on randy to open his eyes up to see then you know something a c. whatever may have been introduced to him or told him

was proven to be a last day in madison. but i think we often think about this and terms of the ways in which they are failing us. they are bad men, they are floating away from us. they are deviant. and i think we need to ask the other question. also, we need to ask the question and how we are failing them. what kind of ways can we keep them in the center? and part of my answer to that is we have to find ways to keep them validated as men . it's really amazing. when people feel more whole quickly and how easily ideology of hate both way and if you can reconnect them to the people that they thought they hated. helps build that in these when they realize that they're actually

a part of the solution rather than contributing to the problem. the 1st time i've ever felt accepted any shape or form from anybody is actually with y after have another p 5 med just recently. i feel as if those 2 grades, so i want everybody to know the human being here instead of like missing touches. but i have person to be able to have their different cultures and different people here. it really is good to be able to cause it to be able to interact because it teaches me that, you know, we're all in this together. this is a part of our solution and farmers are evolving into a powerful force and justice quality from love, peace, compassion. we are operating as human beings from one of 2 places here

or laugh. i mean, get to choose which one that is still happening in the days following boston happened. it was such a turn out and deem that a mortgage support for countering that narrative of white supremacy. it really flooded me with hope. i am proud that i can be a voice against what i used to stamps or i feel like i have i have something to bring to the table among the bigger and better things. while i'm still mindful of what i owe to society. but no one's better served by my guilt or shane at this point, including me. me who in

our turn in our system, in a lock at this time, one suspects wrong about molly and you need to die. what he told me to get with him and he's got an automatic weapon, is running fine. every available unit is anything in there now. logging in on a primary a

a for ah, since the break away of the people's republic was been ranging and dunbar, ukrainian artillery has been shelling civilian towns in mining villages that more.

very lovely deal. a lot with one of your company a little above them all with global. give us one a today i'm authorizing the additional strong sanctions. foreign companies quitting russia, design 21. thank you. this glycine. so atm card. so blantan, banks disconnected from the international payments system. functional puppy

juvenile donna and euro exchange rates. follow up when i travel up our nickel, go more stuff so we don't know what the committee met that evoke the bill from this then is the current. can you say, i don't know what you're seeing with almost volume and russian business overcome this song? see me and i bought it to the nazi to handle huge, tremendously just me don't pres, voice bullshit. national productive. not just 0 dash a miracle. what i see a quickbook on cell when you go, when you with, before you go to the annual of your mind for the student, but actually scope of id book, no cost to the group. when you, when you've been with new person who is a school. so a delusion gets a little bit loose, will close with

hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle in less than 3 months. the west ukraine narrative has been turned on its head. ukraine is not winning its steadily losing. the west is not unified impact. divisions are widening. the russian economy is weathering. massive actions. western economies are in trouble. who will blink 1st? ah cross sucking sanction regimes. i'm joined by my guess. matthew eric in montreal. he is a senior fellow at the american university of moscow and director of the rising tide foundation of canada in new york. we are richard wolf. he is professor emeritus of economics at the university, massachusetts, amorous, and author of the sickness is the system and an art.