charges at this point obviously is to grace trust or rather than fear, a very char with artificial intelligence, real, somebody with obama protective phone existence with ah, ah hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle writing for the pages of the new york times. joe biden says he does not want a nato russia war in the same article. he was unclear how the conflict in ukraine

should end negotiations, do not appear to be a high priority. in the meantime, the e you agree to a 6th round of sanctions, all the while ukraine is losing on the battlefield. ah, cross sucking the threats of escalation. i'm joined by my guess, charles or tell in new york. he's an invested writer, as well as host of sunday with charles podcast in north florida. we have tom logo, he is a pup. he is publisher of gold, goats and guns, blog and newsletter. and in paris, we casa pepe escobar. he's an independent geopolitical analyst, the author specializing in eurasia high gentleman cross sack rules, and the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate peppy. let me go to you 1st. i mentioned the president, the united states, a my introduction. what i glean from it, i didn't make it did make a whole lot of sense to me. i don't know who wrote it for him. it looked like a group of a low octane lawyers that rhoda, because very legalistic was very,

it was very legalistic right. but he said here in the, the article, we're not encouraging or enabling ukraine to strike beyond its borders. we do not want to prolong the war just to inflict pain on russia. but everything this administration is do, has done and everything the european union has done. and nato is exactly what he said he wants to avoid pepe. well, 1st of all, there is no president of the united states. we have what i call crash test dummy. we have a near piece, a teleprompter, and the combo behind them, issuing orders, that he may or may not be able to read. and certainly not able to interpret that. what his reading don't forget until this new york times off at peace. the, the main idea was an infinite war, like a replay of the 198 is jihad in afghanistan. but now we know now the mercenaries or new knowledge is already encrusted in the system. lasting years, if not decades,

to boggle down russia. and in the words of light rate, the on off thing we commit. and now no, not anymore. we know we want to stay on mate and diplomacy, which was exactly what they were having diplomacy and see a few weeks ago in this book when i was just a few weeks ago, that famous a meeting organized by eric again, even sort of gave up rob was saying ops, now we have some agreement with the ukraine, and so let's get the ball rolling the next day it was and of any problems. so now it's back to diplomacy and a stay away. you cannot have us that way when you are losing badly. as you mentioned, your introduction and in don't boss, this is going to happen. maybe until the end of this month of june, it will be over in the boss or max mid july. so diplomacy would be best for the measure from an administration that is being contested inside the u. s

. according to our latest information by the real masters of the universe, the guys so re pull the lever, so the east coast restock or c and some cielo inside the deep state. they are not part of the new york on when he started imperialist gumble. so obvious, this administration knows they are on a bind, knows that they are going to lose badly in the terms desperate because most americans, now they're saying you're a bunch of incorporate the fools inflation i gallon of gas in california for 8 books. you know, the interesting thing for me, if i go to charles here right now is that, you know, you know, as well as i do, very rarely is foreign policy part on the agenda in any election. ok. it's sometimes been very, very rarely. and if the bio ministration thinks they can use ukraine and democracy in ukraine, there are fools. ok. because if at the same time you have this problem with baby

formula and then up to $53000000000.00 being sent to ukraine, when it's obvious, when you craning officials themselves admit they are doing very badly on the battlefield. go ahead charles. yeah, i mean this, this is an administration 17 months in that has proven beyond doubt that it is led by fools, yet barely led by fools at every important post in the executive branch of government . then you turn over to the legislative branch. that's a disaster. if politicize the courts and the people who are, who are doing well out of all this, as you say, are the people behind the scenes who profit from volatility. people like george soros, other sophisticated investors, the people they pay off will get paid off as result of their activities. the people who are really in horrific shape are in the inner cities. the very constituents that the left, the oppressors claim to represent are the ones who are being butchered in the

streets with savage violence who are out of hope of get of paying, you know, for their daily cost of living, given this raging inflation. and it's not just 8 percent, it's a lot higher than our educational system. it is succeeding in turning for kids who ought to have hope for the future into walkers who have little clue of understanding what's really going on in the world. there are mere ponds, in this effort to, i think, destroyed what we know, what we used to know as united states of america, and who benefits from all this. i don't think russia benefits from all this. i suspect it's china. and are we going to have a serious inquiry into how china has paid off the bible family and other leading politicians, including mich mccollugh, we ever going to have a serious investigation of that? well, i, tara, maybe on the upside. is that what it took like 15 months to for them to recognize that that hunter, my laptop was real. so maybe there is hope here somewhere. ok,

let me, let me go to tom. tom, you know, this all this bluster that's going on must not, when you grade must not lose. i mean, that is not a very articulate way of looking at geo politics. okay. because really, what do they end up looking like a group of clowns, and it's already been pointed out. they are and, and we can go all, you know, liz trust, you know, bo, joe, i mean, we don't even have to count joe joe biden, blinkin, victoria newland over for the last 2 is unfinished business. but that's not good for the country. it's not good for europe, it's not good for ukraine and certainly not good for russia. go ahead. no, no, no, it's not good for anybody. actually. this is the thing that i think everybody needs to wrap their head around the, by the ministration or an incompetent. they know exactly what they're doing, they're vandals, and they're not letting any crisis go away. i think this is a very dangerous situation that we have where we have a i agree with ebay, we don't have a president elect where he was selected to destroy the in us. it's also carlson's

point as well. and once we start to wrap our head around the idea that that's what's going on here. then all of their policy makes sense, like the destruction of the middle class in europe and the united states hip are, are clear here. the idea that we're going to fight russia in a proxy war in ukraine is being done in order to, in the long run, to undermine the idea that the american military can actually fight a real war. right? there's, there's a, there's a much deeper, i think, agenda happening here. that is, i think, very, very, very dangerous, which is the wholesale undermining of the legitimacy of the united states as any kind of political, rational, political, or, or a geopolitical actor. and, you know, and, and the brits are happily, you know, pushing us along into this. so it has this nightmare and it's, it's just, it's crazy to watch it play out. and the sad truth is that by doing this, we,

that we picked this warren ukraine, and now we're angry with the russians with the way that they're prosecuting, which is to not have given ukraine the war that, that, that we prep them for, which was an air war and there to join our till retrench we have been tom, tom or amory with them about it's, it's really interesting that the, i hear all of the, you know, that the quote smart people, the grown ups, you know, talk about how this can be settled. but those ideas were before the conflict started and the west was completely indifferent. do it ok, peppy. you know, one of the, that there's this issue of escalation here, and i remember very clearly. so do you, i did programs all to december, january and february on it is what the russians said that they were willing to do what they weren't listen to. and now they're saying it again about these new missile systems. i mean, are they so tone deaf in washington in london? because this is where this is coming from. you know, they're a warning has come and they're, they're pretending not to know. it's like, it's not real. he's bluffing. what kind?

this is dangerous behavior pepe it is extremely dangerous and their inability to ok, they never read live is course, but there will be too, too high brow for these people. but that's these trying to understand the other very, very simple terms, philosophical terms, they can't, they are completely insulated belief in the bubble and dialogue in terms of international relations and diplomacy that sanctions, by definition, are a hysterical reaction for a political problem. they don't qualify as diplomacy at all and not even as a means of fresh look at sanctions did with cuba in iran, cuba and he'd run, learn how to live with sanctions, just like russia learn how to live and thanks for the past 8 years. i think something that's up for our american audience in a minute to look at those yourself, everybody else's. you have no idea if you are in the states, how much worse is the norm dialogue situation here in europe?

yeah, i've never seen anything like that in my life time. i've lived in at least 5 different european nations for the past 4050 years since i was a teenager in fact. and if you want to have a high level conversation about the need to russia war and the influence of united states on what's happening, ukraine with academics and so called strategic analysts hearing friends, you need to any jeremy. it's absolutely right. so be, let me jump in here, let me go to charles. before we go to the break here, pepe brings up a really interesting point because if you descend from the, the normative narrative, you are really, really gone after i be 17 years of my work. when it was deleted on youtube, ok, they are terrified of information, not just information. go ahead before we go to the break. sure, i mean it's, we're the little bit ironic in america, the people who are leading this charge cut their teeth in the sixty's. many of them

were hippies begging for the mainstream establishment to give them a chance to have their ideas heard. they get, they get power. what do they do? they crush anybody who might criticize with the disinformation governance board being one a tent. and i suspect that attempt began long before nina jack, what's got wrong and is continuing during this broadcast. it will excel right after . yes. and they will if that i want to reiterate they're there, they're not going out there. not fighting disinformation misinformation. they don't want people to speak, speak truth to power. that's what this is all about here, right gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the thread of escalation. a many times with with

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ah, welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. to remind you we're discussing the threat of escalation. ah, let's go back to tom. i tom. one of the things that i find very, very peculiar during all of this, is that we all know in this program that the middle class working middle class and working class people over the last 40 years have been just bludgeoned. i mean, terribly so by this neo liberal ideology where it is a unit party and the benefits from it. but you know, this is destroying working people and their hopes for the future on steroids right now. because as peppy and i have talked about it earlier, ah, you know, inflation is something that, you know, was somebody else's problem. it was in the global south that with the people that don't know how to run things. and now we're seeing a galloping, and that is very,

very serious for working people all across the western world. you have to use your car, you need energy. and that is being sacrificed right now. they're creating social tensions that i don't think they have a clue on how to handle. go ahead tom. i would agree with you completely. peter. actually been writing about this for a long time saying that i, i believe when i called daveille shrine, i really do believe that we're, we're dealing with that in that kind of intellectually bankrupt classes. oligarch said just men davos. are the ones driving so much of this? and they really do believe that if they have to tear the world down in order to rebuild it and you know, every good, i think they'd say it every good communist takeover source with a toilet paper shortage. right. so they, they're, they're doing this all across the west, especially in, in, in, in europe and to, unless we're sending united states, i believe that it's going to be able to take hold miss. we still have some vestiges of a decentralized governmental system here. we still have places like where i live in florida, where we have a strong se government that can resist the federal government. but it's,

it is gutting to every body across the, the middle class. but this is their goal. this is their stated goal. they've made, made o bones about it, so they're just running there. so that's how i tom, it's very scary. tell it to it is very scary here and do you, i mean, as anybody checked it, maybe i missed something. but as anybody checked in in europe and in the united states that they want to see their lives, their lifestyle. and so they standard of living to, to decrease because of ukraine. has anybody been asked that peppy, why don't you answer that? is anybody is, is it, is it worth it is a sacrifice because this sacrifices are being made by poor people, including ukrainians, including russians, including the global south. you're absolutely right. speaker, and that this is something that so it's a kind of conversation that's along these lines. you can have them in a cafe hearing, paris, who's issuing the orders. and everybody more or less knows that there are not the capitals of europe and national government governments. it's the europe and

commission in brussels via food or, or vulgar logan, as i call him, logan press the in german. she's not on the light and brand that it was or grand bed. it was a nice thing was going to look at. so this is very, very serious because in terms of real non the democracy, they are one step ahead already and the average citizen in not so much in germany. but i would say here in italy, in spain and greece, they know exactly what's going on. and it's all about brussels, sha, michelle, this ill real, correct june, got elected people who briefly disconnected from real life and special real life by average european citizens. i'm not even talking about the eastern europe, which from the point of view of loans and barriers, and rome is in the middle of nowhere. i'm talking about paris about geneva, about milan. know about rome. what about barcelona,

where people are streaming the pinch, and they know that who we speaking these decisions to fight still the last one as ukrainian over there. and you'll have to turn off a hot water and fries in winter so you can defend democracy. this come straight from brussels. yeah, i mean, you know, the, i don't refer to him as chancellor shields. i referred to him is sergeant schultz on this program. ok. because that's essentially what he is. he takes orders. ok, i mean, you know, can, if you look at the entire lineage of chancellor, since the 2nd world war, this is it in barest meant. okay, a real embarrassment. charles, the nazis had been mentioned a couple of times in this program. i'm really think it's important to talk more about it. the department of homeland security is quite concerned over nazis returning to the u. s. after fighting in ukraine. well, i mean why we sending money to ukraine there, but you're not see there. i mean,

this is completely inexplicable to me here and it, it, i have to give a call out to the gray zone. they've had some wonderful articles on here. but you know, it's in plain sight if you want to know something about this, but no, it's not. it's another example of always citing with the worst elements of another country. go ahead charles. it's disgraceful. i mean, you don't even need to bring up the open southern border. we're so concerned about people streaming back. maybe we should close our southern border at tense, the cost of sending all the money over to you. great. beyond that though, i think in the united states, i went to decent schools and we never really studied it back in the seventy's and eighty's, at least i did the, the, the ukraine or the constituent elements of the soviet states. and we certainly don't have a clear education over here in my view as to what really happened because the end of world war 2 in europe, which nation bore the heaviest price. and i think it was the former soviet union in

terms of the dead and gravely injured and economic damage and all that. and why now, 75 years or 77 years later, why does the united states still need to have all these military bases in western europe, which to pose threats to russia in states that are very rich now, when, why, why are we doing? why does it make sense for americans, sons and daughters to put our lives at risk in these flashpoints 77 years later, this going to be the case. so a 107 years when i turn charles for me it's, it's this the griffin. it's just a grift. ok, it, it is. do you know it keep nato in lloyd with a nice budget. i mean, nato is really a propaganda operation. it's not even a military alliance. i mean, it's the united states. the french can throw a little bit in the british, can throw a little bit in and turkey, and nobody trusts the turks. ok. the rest of it is a propaganda machine. okay? and that's where it's really difficult to explain to the public because it will,

you know, there's a military conflict going on in ukraine and in western europe as they destroy their own lifestyle and economies. it's a propaganda war. this is, it's a symmetrical and everything go away. you know, tom, one of the things, one of the most important issues that is always discussed here is energy, energy and energy. ok. and the europeans are doing everything they can to get away from russian energy, which is fine with the russians because the rest of the world wants it. these people are foolish. ok, but the copy is europe's great friends. america is going to cash in on it. ok, that's what you america does to its friends. ok, it's nato allies. ok, destroy their economy. they make sure they are not competitive. and the way i look at it is having had gemini over europe. well, it's a pirate victory for the us because it's a worthless the asset at the end of the day. go ahead tom. well, it's, it's funny. you saw the, i just saw some recent headlines to the fact that, that we're shipping or exporting more oil and more natural gas to europe than we

have the forum we're looking ever have before, and prices here in the united states or off the charts. so all that's happening here is that we're seeing, you know, everybody suffer, i guess not just europe, europe is getting more expensive. the energy from the united states and americans domestically are paying more for energy because the marginal flows that we would normally go to to fill our refineries. and so our pipelines aren't, aren't, aren't there. they're all going. they're all going exported by 10 years. you know, elegy terminal down in louisiana and shipped over to, to, to finland in germany and the rest and poland. and it's insane. so everybody is losing peter. and again, i reiterate this point, this is done on purpose. the goal is clear from these people. they want to take the world off of hydrocarbons and their think that at the same time they can then also split russia off from opec bigger safe. i guess they believe that the, that the arab states are so dom is to not realize that these people are hostile

hydrocarbons and that, you know, gold gladly take up the slack of the market share like you got silica pack is refusing to, to, to, to, to back down here and even take biden's phone calls and i, i watched this play out of my, i mean, i know you guys are vandals, but at least could you be competent at it? i mean, i mean, i can do this better. i'm not the i would but i mean they're not just vandals, they're in comp, they, i guess they're incompetent vandals. it's even, well, i mean, i mean, to, unbelievable. but tom only go to pepe right now. at the end of the day, they believe that they know every decision they make doesn't affect them personally . okay. i mean all these people making the decisions in europe in the u. s. do you think they even know what a leader of gasoline cost? i doubt it, i doubt it. you know, i mean, when's the last i may been in a grocery store, their food has brought to them. i mean that they have no idea of willie what they're doing and it's all ideology. i agree with, with tom saying, this is, this is, is intentional, but it's, it being done intentionally by incompetence. go ahead, pepe yes,

incompetence and also by design i don't come raised the very important points. it is by design and implemented by it beyond the incompetent. so it's absolutely appalling to, in terms of not a non leadership politically. and julie economist, a deal on the ball on the subject nomics at all. they don't understand eurasia, none of, if you have a conversation with people behind these governments in england, here in germany, any natalie as, as well, at my academic friends who know about eurasia, who travel back and forth, all this, if the have absolutely no clue what's really going on in russia, china enjoy because i've done practiced on turkey, iran, it's cetera. and there are some very that just one of the things that i do it in my job. i track these movements. it's slowly, but surely they are getting their act together. for instance, try to explain in brussels, that the razor comic unit is working on alternative monetary economic system. they

have no clue about that. try to explain to them that india and russia and russia in the run are 3 the more and more by electric, within their own currencies, and they're planning to interact their payment systems as well. for instance, the russians are going to do this with the iranians. they couldn't do it yet with the chinese because you know, pay is afraid. the american sanctions. yep. so and chinese banks are absolutely desperate of being caught in the sanctions made. but trying to have this conversation here at high levels of power with the national governments in europe is absolutely impossible because they are also hosted just of brussel. yes, but in a peppy. they also think that the world still revolves around that was really extraordinary. i mean, we agree, rapidly changing so fast and they, we like, they still think that they're at the center of everything that everybody's thinking

about them. know they're becoming a realm event because they're making themselves irrelevant. and they're certainly not serious people. that's why the global south, you want to fight over you great, buy. we don't want to get involved. you made that problem. you fix it. that's their attitude. i gentlemen, this was a wonderful, pleasurable conversation, but we have run out of time on i think my get to new york, florida and in paris i think our viewers for watching us here are the see you next time. remember, crossed up with ah, ah, the 1st time in history, an entire country's culture has been cancelled. the very modern weapon cancelled culture. really desert wonderful language, sheffield, milan luther and william frog yet just me sitting there with the phrase now

particularly 1st to canceling russian culture. yet them know what to create the fuel because it's convenient. my fuel, which will view that is charlie mozilla that the most of the separate yolanda m e them we what rushes created over the past 1500 years now questions partially condemned, reviled and rejected. just to remind you that it was funny at the will of bramble, there's a lot closer on a whole bunch. thank you said a little sure. the list joining total condemnation gross daily. and now includes just a asking to cascade shostakovich that i need to hear a yes, it says that what the time will you do? obama lee? you that would up a,

a completely new industry normally stock and just look up for a muscle with new g doesn't being in the green shield on a nice to me as possible. mom with his ashley of a dc. wanted to work with you, but he has not got the key chain of times to not work for phones or something like that. and then we go at that with

a with a cruise and reuters a shelled by ukrainian forces while traveling in civilian cars. little guns republic, it's the reuters journalist, injured and their driver killed in the u. s. officials from both parties shared growing concerns about where the financial militia aid ukraine is actually ending up in defense against keep track of the weapon shipment. under majority of greeks and opposition government politicians opposed nato's weapons deliveries to ukraine . they could pose a risk of.