the me i hello and welcome, which was the part united we divided the fall. this may be one of the oldest and most popular motorists in human history is cited in a fable in the harry saga in the new testament. and of course, in multiple speeches of american presidents, and that's true on the personal or national level could that also apply to the world? to discuss that i'm now joined by a north tank and in your fellow at the time her institute is tongue. and it's great to see you, would you talk to thank you very much for time. now let me start that. the idea that i mentioned in my introduction, that a house, and that's the biblical version. how that is divided against itself cannot stand, wouldn't be fair to say that the world as we know it today, is perilously divided,

or has it always been that way? well, there are moments a division. i mean, there's always division within society. and sometimes it tells you can happen, but today what we faced is unparalleled. unwinding of an international world order that the u. s. put in place after world war 2 created the cold war. there was this momentary euphoria during the term of rom, greg, anyone like us? why? but then that was quickly all the good. well, was quickly so i was just going into afghanistan and fighting with many invasion of iraq. and now you say you're just looking to play mothers work with working right. you start looking at lower middle class, especially white american. they are on the market on one side that they are charged

that there's a problem of society. and the other hand, they see that they're not increase the last 40 years of going sideways. meanwhile, you know, people on wall street are making more money to add to rich men in the united states well is greater than the entire nation. so when you start reading all of these and what's happening within us, but that division has you mentioned the number of historical people starting in the 2nd world war and perhaps even before that and, you know, they won't have to have seen many challenges over the last century and yet i've heard few recently say that this could be one of the worse patches for humanity to go through in over a 100 years. that's a pretty dramatic assessment. what made you, we should well, that's what i was,

meaning that you have political concern long with us changing a global, retreating from them. you know, i think you have an economic transportation transformation where literally going through a paradigm shift and it's not going very well. china is rising economically, west jewelry and digital revolution. it's really going to have as much as an industrial revolution. i mean, we started thinking about the number of people who are gonna place it will be truck drivers, taxi drivers, ash, cruise ships, things become more economist why? because that's why these things will happen to people that. busy we know economically, money has its own logic and it was through see that today with the amount of money

that china because they have a stable government in russia when russia said, okay, you want well payable back up now, so strong, weaker. so, you know, they're only kind of constantly going on the, all the logic, all the ideas that were in the past. i no longer valid. i, there's a lot of cation racing. that change is being very difficult or power. it's like a shock. i ask you something on the issue of russia just to narrow it a little bit because you're already paying to get very broad and pretty complex picture for our audience. but if you look at many of the western media, you get an idea that the current confrontation between russia and the west over your brain is one of the major reasons. if not the major reason for things falling

apart. i think you personally answered my question, but i'm going to ask it anyway to give you an opportunity to perhaps to elaborate on that. is it indeed the fact that you know, the, the russian action into your brain, sad base, chaos in motion of was this, were those the balancing ukraine in themselves, the consequence of something that was people, i don't know if you, if you look at a fusions stacy, since they all said that any action ukraine would bring more with this is kitchen here, this is we are safe. there is no, never any question, no one, not, not true or anything like that. so nato expansion is calculated to create

a reaction. it is actually a king that does not excuse me, i'm not in favor, was neither am i right away and i don't think there are the issue is if i back you order a new start coming out clean and other her i can't say we did one thing, i mean, you asked me a couple question russia into the situation with that was not, excuse me back, but you know, and unfortunately, you know, after iraq which strategy where they use profit, want to use other country like there was the week and the enemy, i was concerned about this. one crane was shot interlining with your a k i n grain. so really dangerous when countries

to use other countries. as proc me, all kinds of your estimation is probably not possible probable. you're starting to see that already. now mr. chang, and in another interview, you're also called the situation ukraine. a boy that was deliberately created for p r purposes. and that caught my attention because it's hard to imagine what kind of p r results would justify know the only the amount of suffering and loss, the ukrainians, and the russians are going through. but also the ripple effect throughout the world . that base price that is having and countries that have absolutely nothing to do with either russia, ukraine or the united states for that reason. well, i mean, i'm not i'm not a favor of american instruction, american exception. the idea that you asked to do whether you ever necessary to

bring the world into the state of democracy. that america likes free markets, legal values, but the proxy that is, that you're trying to push the world working world direction, but it's using everything that they use. everyone else is doing. i mean, starting war that's not liberal, it's working countries to changing regime that has nothing to do with moxie open markets or, except the market itself is not dominated by in all its major industries by 2 or 3 players who are pursuing their own economic agenda. epic sensors, their people, so us is a live odd situation where it's failing at home, but rather than the front that what they're doing is the blaming others abroad. so

when you start talking about ukraine, you have a situation in the u. s. wants to minimize a country that it does not thing which part of the national water in the way it was already know how many regime change. yeah, we want to get a little i think it's a country that has more nuclear weapons than anybody else. what happens if you could stabilize it? hey, it seems we madness. yes, it's out there. and one of us is trying to prove that it's like when everyone else is wrong, despite the fact that can lead by example. now you mentioned the so called international order, and one of the things i said hearing here in the russia is that russia's actions in ukraine as hard to explain and hard to justify as they are. i may have been based on some historical grievances on,

not even on the threat perception, but rather on the cold blooded objective calculation of where the world is moving. how'd the balance of power in the world is shifting and the conclusion that even if the worst case scenario materialize this and all ties with the west, that ca, that russia can survive and accomplish its development goals? goals by associating itself more closely with non west and by doing that, you know, sort of strengthening this multi polar world that it wants to see, ah, what do you think about that? do you think that se utopian ideology thing that has some kernel of truth to? okay, so let's, let's upgrade a couple of issues. you know, president who laid out very clearly in his chair. russia had spoken german at the end of the

problem was looking forward to your home and i clearly identified rushing out and then you ration and then you know, 7 years later he gets up and he says, you have like you to expand into areas. you said you would not, you will not allow us to have a home to we are therefore no choice with the try to go again, international order that you created. that is a nation, a rush, or he expresses it. so no one would be surprised that you know, we do not like this international lead ordered by us, but you goes along with that because it is not fair. other countries, there is a multi whole and that can be clearly illustrated by what's been happening on its

own way, mexico, on its own way. right. you know, i mean, quite clearly things have shifted in that direction now. well, how shaking the world economy arrives. how does it lie from this? i'm fortunately, i, you know, it could be from the ash because right now we're talking about shorter and power shorter. and these are going to affect a country. we're talking about the middle east africa. these are countries in asia not happen, where with all the complete food at the prices that they're going to be, they do not have to wear it all. without food, you cannot live without energy. you cannot run your economy. and without it your economy, you cannot pay your h national, that this is why i have a very good outlook on the situation. now, what the u. s. over will power should be doing it this way. recognizing that the

critical timing is about the survival of the human race. well mr. chang and we are also at a very critical point in our conversation because we need to take a break now. but then we'll be back in just a few moments. ah . okay. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to create trust rather than fear with artificial intelligence. real,

somebody with most protective phone existence with a i'm, my name is frank from origin, philadelphia got in the movement in age 13 going on 14. we were violent towards those people because we believed that were this race. we were here 1st and this is our country being part of that movement. i got your sense of power . when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i felt level of life after hey, is an organization that was founded by for a nazi white supremacists in the u. s. in canada. and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out. is 2 parts to

getting out of a violent extreme was the 1st part of disengagement which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is d. radicalization work belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful. when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement, you heard my story did nothing to challenge it validate with . mm hm. welcome back to the point with either a chicken senior fellow at they try her institute, mr. chang. and before the break, we were talking about the people a fact that the ukrainian crisis is causing around a well then obviously russia is bearing a lot of pain. bmo, spain, from it because of the western attempts to cut it off completely from the rest of

the global economy. and as challenging as it is both for the russian government and for the russian people. i'm hearing impaired obstacle ideas. you're in moscow that you know this amount of a cannot make a job political suffering right now, and may actually inoculate russia against greater pains, a few years down the line when the western lat wessel center is system will disintegrate. even further. now, over the russia has a choice at this point of time, but do you think other countries may also think about it about perhaps flooring that dependence on the west or you know, trying to establish our own self sufficiency and survival ability. in the case, similar sanctions are applied to them or affected them for no reason

of their own making. well, yeah, i mean, one of the major issues that people haven't really talked about in russia is able to spot this. this will be another example how the, what is truly more like polar not the us than dictate catch everybody. and if you don't go along crush, i mean, let's look at the history of change in your years. in iran, venezuela, you have cuba long. it hasn't changed in right now how, how russia deals with this is going to be very, very important about whether in the movement towards not only a multi whole one in which economic activities market and production are increasingly moving. as is rush, my not, not by choice. so in terms of how we can

do that, a lot of parents, one of the things that is most noticeable as we talked about with us, was saying that we crush your economy by dollars. and therefore, you can pay for our, well, we will. well, it's actually a month. so, i mean, at this juncture, there's a certain independence. so when you start looking at, if you ration, you're seeing less of american info and that is going to be traumatic. don't want to celebrate that us. why percent of the people, julian 20 percent of that demand goes away, there will be additional hardships. so right now, yes, russia is very well placed because it has energy who may not have all but extra emotionally. there might be problems be purchasing,

but eventually those supply lines will be filled up media, brazil from china host right now, the national class trying to make it the only one who know we're not on line in this situation, but the fact is majority in the world not only one, but also population. that is actually not interest war. that was us attractive. so mr. turn in the makeup of this new world order to significant accessible depend on what kind of relationship the countries will pursue. and i think the example of russia and china over the last couple of decades is quite instructive here because both capital, like decide their relationship as a, as a model for other countries. they see di tries,

they the way they are structured as the, as a container within the which immediate challenges, hardships, competing interests will be held. i've heard both the russians, and the me said, just that, that's who'd be, i would mortal to proceed. you agree with that? do you think it could be extrapolated to other countries? do you ultimately think the geopolitics has reached the point where various countries can towards the strategic share is concerns above the immediate one sided gain? i depends on the country and their situation. i mean, i do a lot of work on the unique i was very well educated in the person who in ministry was talking about high ideal about the democracy, about liberalism, all of these things. and that the next moment or this answer was all about what in

a crate. and so, i mean, you either have these ideals and you try to follow them. or you just say every, now this is really the danger of emerging international or that with multi whole worlds. people start fracturing, they just say, well, with every, every country for themselves. and i do think that nation is like russia, china, nationally, us in europe as a major players is leaders have to leave my example. and that means less wars, less selling of arms and things like that. and i don't just us, i mean, across the board. i don't know how a gun has made life better for anybody. you look in the united states right now, going to problem was we don't have not gone. i would say the problem was we have to, you mentioned a couple of individuals who have benefited from it. maybe it's about them at the end of the day. yeah, well, right now,

i mean europe is awakening us positioning out to be the bread basket of europe and also the energy supplier. and that is not something that everybody you're comfortable with because they're very aware that the u. s. has course, whenever a lot was necessary for the united states on other countries and i'm talking about the terrace now we're, we're only one election away from going right back to where donald trump was. right . and then you can after him and you can have another flip flop. how do you run a world other country when you're constantly blocking back between medical ideas and, you know, it's just, it's just not possible. and this media, undoing united inability to plan, provide a predictable future business on it. you know,

people have to know that they can plan if they can't do that. there's no way for lation is matches. we should some people in the united states feel that the buyer is going to lose the house and probably sell it when that happens. you haven't workable government. and as he just mentioned, the inflation is, is a problem, not only for the united states, but very much for the rest of the world. and i think this is also what makes our seemingly abstract apps are discussion much less abstract because this lofty concepts like our world order has a direct impact on the prize of a loaf of bread in the local supermarket. then many people around the world, they seeing it right now, but that wasn't today case. that wasn't the case even a decade ago, the united states was able to conduct many wars, but without its population ever filling effective. what do you think has changed in

the world to bring that home to make the americans fill the pinch of the actions that their government is initiating on their behalf? well, we did feel pain. i'm not gonna stand with them last a failure. we've been playing wars, there's no strategy to win. an ability to lose. we're all going to have her job. never knew about it. i mean, he may have gotten some news on the he's last wasn't about it because he was being financed with that was 4 trillion dollars between right and more. you don't notice that because you don't pay that government. but right now the u. s . situation where it's overloaded with that, especially because more than that and they're not in the position where they can even have them. i mean, graphic changing monetary policy. in order to do that,

you have the fed, which is pushing the country into a recession, if not, depression, doesn't meet up in their mind at any mission to we inflate the economy after you know the worst was the fact is raising race at the fed level. is great, tertiary economy, jobs the amount of nations, et cetera, but it does not make one read and it does not create one barrel of oil, and those are our chronic shorter hughes call, my current situation, logistics and also the tuition in ukraine. they don't understand that, and this is what is really bothersome when you have a really smart people who are doing really dumb things and it just feel, well, i think the question is still open of how smart they are. and i think that brings

us to these long discussion about. 1 what constitutes good governance, because from the chinese perspective, what is and effective governance is a craving, some basic conditions for, you know, good, productive human life and development. rather than feeding people are some on ideological ideas of why freedom is, is more beneficial than this so called photography. the americans are still framing on that politics in this way of freedom versus, or liberty versus a talker. so do you think that's, that's an effective narrative in this day in age? do you think other countries, by the lot in the united states, i mean you have people on opposite sides of the fence literally willing to engage in a civil war. that's what we had with the small people who literally wanted

to tear down the society area. maybe people were in the armed forces there in the police. americans had heart medicine america. so yeah, you know, if i had that, you know, everything is solved by a valid remark and free speech, it doesn't work. and you know, right down in china, if you ask people if that's what they tell you, absolutely not. looking at the gun violence, united states division, you know, people like you know, house. oh sure. i want to give you a vaccine on, on. i'm pretty, i feel like my, my disease to everybody. that's my right. where are the responsibility in china? you know, they go on the other side responses, society responsibility ahead of the individual desires. it's not about like

there are right, the responsibility, the individual and the us. it has become magnified and how can i possibly have like if i hadn't and you have politicians who were out there. li planes are these kind of nonsense. and all it is you need more to be sure they want power, but they have no idea what they're going to accept. christ tried to play with mr. king and the parents. they didn't get any more to pick in the 2nd part of our discussion. but we have to leave it here. thank you very much for your insights today. and thank you for watching hope to here again on the was the part ah with

mm. what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, even foundation let it be in arms. race is on often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very critical of time to sit down and talk with becky, unless you with

that you for that i think will this fuss around extra supply c crate has only one goal. that is to drag out the military conflict as long as possible. in his 1st interview, since the start of the conflict vladimir potent tech, same up, the huge amounts of western arms being shipped to ukraine, but claims russian defenses are quote, cracking them like ah, 5 civilians are killed this weekend. does that then? yes, people's republic comes under ukrainian shelling notes according to local officials . we report from.