ah, oh mm mm mm. hello, well it was a part united we stand divided the fall is may be one of the oldest and most popular loaners in human history is cited in a south fables in the harry port a saga in the new testament. and of course in multiple speeches of american presidents, and that's true on personal or national level. would that also apply to the world of to discuss that i'm now joined from beijing by a north tank and senior fellow at the time her institute italian. it's great to see

you're good to talk to you. thank you very much for time for you. now let me start with the idea that i mentioned in my introduction, that a house, and that's the biblical version. how that is divided against itself cannot stand. would it be fair to say that the world, as we know it today, is perilously divided, or has it always been that way? well, there are moments a division. i mean there is always division with you. but today what we place is on parallel unwinding of an international world order that the u. s. i put in place after world war 2. it created the cold war. bear with moment carrie euphoria during the term of long reagan when you asked why, again, that was quickly now all the good. well, with quick response in terms of going into afghanistan and fighting with to

rock allow you see say to just looking to play mothers work with working. you start looking at lower middle class, especially white american. they are on the market on one side. they are, you know, the charge that there's a problem society and the other hand, they see that they're not increase the last 40 years, i mean, going sideways. meanwhile, people on wall street are making more money to add to rich men in the united states. well, is greater than the entire nation. so when you start looking at these in all of these and what's happening within us, but that division has now shred. you mentioned the number of historical people starting in the 2nd world war. and perhaps even before that, then, you know, they won't have to have seen many challenges over the last century. and it yet are

1st you recently say that this would be one of the worst patches for humanity to go through in over a 100 years. that's a pretty dramatic assessment. what made you, we should well, that's what i was, meaning that you have political ones are concerned because along with us changing a global, retreating from them. you know, i think you have an economic transportation transformation where literally going through a paradigm shift and it's not going very well. china is rising economically, where jewelry and digital revolution, it's really going to have as much as an industrial revolution. let me start thinking about the number of this place. it will be truck drivers,

actually drivers, ash, cruise ships, things become more economist why, because that's why these things happen to people that. busy we know economically, money has its own logic and it was through today with the amount of money that china because they have a stable government in russia when russia said, okay, you want well payable back up now, so strong, weaker. so you know, they're unintended, constantly on the, on the logic. all the ideas were in the past. i no longer valid. there's a lot of change and racing that change is being very difficult or power. it's like a shock. i ask you something on the issue of russia just to narrow it

a little bit because you're already paying to get very broad and pretty complex picture for our audience. but if you look at the many of the western media, you'll get an idea that the current confrontation between russia and the west over your brain is one of the major reasons. if not the major reason for things falling apart. i think your partially answered my question, but i'm going to ask if any way to give you an opportunity to perhaps, to elaborate on that is it indeed the fact that you know the, the russian action into your brain, sad base scales in motion or was this were those the balancing ukraine in themselves, the consequence of something that was telling people about, you know, if you, if you look at a fusions stacy since

they all said that any action ukraine would bring with russia. and this is here, this is key. and we said that there was never any question, no one, not, not true or anything like that. so nato expansion was calculated to create a reaction intervention that came, that was not, excuse me, i'm not in favor, was i? and neither am i right away. and i don't think there are the issue is if i back you in order a new start coming out and other heard, i can't say we did. one thing, i mean, you asked is pushing russia into the situation, but that was not, excuse me, back. but you know, and unfortunately, you know, after iraq, which strategy were they use profit, one use other country like there was

a week and i was concerned about this one crane was shot interlining with your a case and re so really dangerous when countries to use other countries as proc me, call it kind of your estimation. it's probably not possible probable. you're starting to see that already. now mr. chung and in another interview, you're also called restriction. and ukraine war that was deliberately created for p r purposes. and that caught my attention because it's hard to imagine what kind of p r results would justify. i know the only the amount of suffering and loss, the ukrainians, and the russians are going through. but also the ripple effect throughout the world . that base price that is having and countries that have absolutely nothing to do

with either russia, ukraine or the united states for that reason. well, i mean, i'm not back. i'm not afraid of american exception exception. the idea that us can do whether it's necessary to bring the world into the state of democracy that america likes free markets liberal values. but we see that is that you should try to push the world working world direction, but it's using everything that everyone else is doing. i mean, starting war that's not liberal, it's working countries to changing regime that has nothing to do with the moxie open market. except the market itself is not dominated by in all its major

industries by 2 or 3 players who are pursuing their own economic agenda. ethics, their people, us, this is our situation where it's failing at home, but rather than the front that what they're doing is blaming others abroad. so when you start talking about ukraine, you have a situation in the us wants to minimize any country that it does not think which part of the national order in the way it was already know how many regime change. yeah, we want to get rid of i think the country that has more nuclear weapons than anybody else. what happens if you could stabilize it? it seems madness. yes, it's out there and why? the u. s. is trying to prove that it's like when everyone else is wrong, despite the fact that can lead by example. now you mentioned the so called

international order. and one of the things i said, hearing here in the russia, is that russia's actions in ukraine as hard to explain and hard to justify as they are. i may have been based not on some historical grievances on, not even on the threat perception, but rather on the whole beloved objective calculation of where the world is moving, how the balance of power in the world is shifting and the conclusion that even if the worst case scenario materialize this and all ties with the west that ca, that russia can survive and accomplish its development goal bowls by associating itself more closely with non west. and by doing that, you know, sort of strengthening this multi polar world that it wants to see. or what do you think about that? do you think that se utopian ideology thing that has some kernel of truth to?

okay, so let's look at a couple of issues. you know, president who laid out very clearly in his charity snitch. russia had spoken german at the end of the problem was looking forward to your home. and i clearly identified, rushing me and then your ration and then 7 years later he gets up and he says, you have like us to expand into areas. you said you would not, you will not allow us to have a home to. we are therefore no choice but to try to destroy the international order that you created that nation. you know, a, what the rush he expresses the thing. so no one will be surprised that you know,

we do not like this international lead ordered by us that goes along with because it is not fair. other countries, there is a multicultural. and that can be clearly illustrated by what's been happening on its own way. mexico on its way. right. you know, i mean, quite clearly things have shifted in that direction now. well, how, shaking the world economy arrives. how this is a rise from this? unfortunately, i, you know, it could be from the ash because right now we're talking about shortage power shortage. and these are going to affect washington countries talking about middle east africa. these are countries, any country setting not happen where with all the food at the prices that they're going to be, they do not have the wherewithal power. without food,

you cannot live without energy. you cannot run your economy. and without running your economy, you cannot pay your international. so this is why i have a very, really outlook on the situation. now, what the u. s. i all will power should be doing it. recognizing that this is the critical time in history. this is about the survival of the human race. well, mister turner, we are also at a very critical point in our conversation because we need to take a break now, but we will be back in just a few moments they are for me or i me.

oh lou needs to come to the russian state to narrative time on the most with within the 55 with speedy. when else with we will van in the european union the kremlin. yup. machine. the state on russia today, and ortiz food next. even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and extend

with mm hm. mm hm. welcome back to world the 4th with a there, a chicken senior fellow and they tie her institute, mr. king. and before the break, we were talking about the bit ripple effect that the ukrainian crisis is causing around the world. and obviously, the russia is bearing a lot of pain the most pain from it, because of the western attempts to cut it off completely from the rest of the global economy. and as challenging as it is both for the russian government and for

the russian people. i'm hearing a paradoxical idea here in moscow that you know this amount, if a cannot make and that your political suffering right now may actually inoculate russia against greater planes. a few years down the line of when the western lad, the western center is system will disintegrate. even further now over russia has a choice at this point of time, but do you think other countries may also think about it about perhaps flooring that dependence on the west or you know, trying to establish that own self sufficiency and survival ability. in the case, similar sanctions are applied to them or affected them for no reason of their own making. well, yeah, i mean, one of the major issues that people haven't really talked about in russia is able

to survive this. this will be another example how the world is truly like color and not the u. s. indicate catch everybody. and if you don't go along, i mean, look to the history of changes. years in iran, venezuela, you have cuba launching. it hasn't changed in right now. how, how russia deals with this is going to be very, very important about whether in the movement towards not only a multi whole one in which economic activities market and production are increasingly moving. as is rush, my not, not by choice. so in terms of how, how russia they do that, a lot of parents, one of the things that is most noticeable as we talked about with us was saying

that we crush your economy li by, you know, they dollars. and therefore, your precious paper are well, and we will as well it's actually above where it was. so, i mean, at this juncture, there's a certain independent. so what start looking at, if you're seeing ration you're seeing less of american info and that is going to be traumatic. don't want to celebrate that us. why percent of the people, julian, 20 percent of that demand goes away, there will be additional hardships. so right now, yes, it's very well place because it has energy who may not have all the extra luxuries . there might be problems be purchasing, but eventually those supply lines will be filled up media,

brazil from china, host the country right now. the international class trying to make it the only one who, you know, we're not on line right in this situation, but the fact is, majority in the world, not only one population. that is actually not interesting. it was that was that it was attractive. you start to turn in the makeup of this new world order certificate accessible depends on what kind of relationship the countries will pursue. and i think the example of russia and china over the last couple of decades is quite instructive here because both capital, like decide their relationship as a, as a model for other countries. they see di, twice the way they're structured as the as a container within which immediate challenges, hardships,

competing interest will be held. i've heard both the russians and the chinese, the just that, that's who'd be a good model to pursue. do you agree with that? do you think it could be extrapolated other countries? do your ultimately think that your politics has reached the point where various countries can strategic and shares concerns above? he needed one sided gain. i depends on the country and their situation. i mean, i do a lot of work on the unique. i was very well educated in the person who in ministry was talking about high ideal about the democracy, about liberalism, all of these things. now the next moment part is answer was all about what's in their career. so, i mean, you either have these ideals and you try to follow them. or you just say every,

now this is really the danger of this new emerging international or that with the whole world people start fracturing, they just say, well, with every, every country for themselves. and i do think that nations like russia, china, the us in europe as a major players is meters have to lead my example. and that means less wars, less selling of arms and things like that. and i don't mean just us. i mean, across the board. i don't know how it gone, has made life better for anybody. you look in the united states right now. the problem is we don't have enough. i would say the problem which we have to. you mentioned the couple of individuals who have benefited from it. maybe it's about them at the end of the day. yeah, well, right now, i mean, europe is awake, the us positioning yourself to be the bread basket of europe

and also the energy supplier. and that is not something that everybody quite comfortable with because they're very aware that the us have course, whenever a lot was necessary for the united states on other countries. and i'm talking about the terrace now we're, we're only one election away from going right back to where donald trump was. all right, and then you can after him, you can have another flip flop. how do you run a world country when you're constantly flip flopping back between medical i years and you know, i mean it's just, it's just not possible. and this will be undoing united inability to plan provide a predictable future business on it. you know, people have to know that they can plan if they can't do that. there's no way for

lation is matches. we should some 7 percent of people in the united states feel that the buyer is going to lose the house and probably the senate when that happens, if you haven't workable government, it's just as you just mentioned, the inflation is, is a problem not only for the united states, but very much for the rest of the world. and i think this is also what makes our seemingly abstract abstract discussion much less abstract. because this lofty concepts like a world order has a direct impact on the prize of a loaf of bread in their local supermarket, then many people around the world, they seeing it right now. but that wasn't today case. that wasn't the case even a decade ago. the united states was able to conduct many wars, but without its population ever feel filling effective. what do you think has changed in the world to bring that home to make the americans fill the

pinch of the actions that the government is initiating on their behalf? well, we didn't feel pain, i mean, not gonna stand with them last a failure. we've been playing wars where there's no strategy to win. ability to lose. we're all limited. joe never knew about it. i mean, he may have gotten some news on he lives wasn't about it because he was being financed with there. that was 4 trillion dollars between the rock not going to send more. you don't notice that because you don't pay that government. but right now the u. s, situation where it's overloaded with that, especially because more than that and they're not in the position where they can even have them. so i mean the graphic changing monetary policy in order to hit us, you have the fed, which is pushing the country into a recession. if not,

depression, doesn't need to build up in their mind at any mission to we inflate the economy after you know the worst was the fact is raising race at the fed level is great. tertiary economy. jobs the amount of the national tetra. but it does not make one read and it does not create one barrel of oil, and those are our chronic shorter hughes hall, my current situation, logistics, and also situation ukraine. they don't please understand that. and this is what is really bothersome when you have really smart people who are doing really dumb things and it just well, i think the question is still open of how smart they are. and i think that brings us to these long discussion about. 1 what constitutes good

governance, because from the chinese perspective, what is and effective governance is creating some basic conditions for good, productive human life and development rather than feeding people some ideological ideas. so why freedom is, is more beneficial than they. so polls talk prosy that americans are still framing that politics in the, in this way of freedom versus or liberal to versus a talk or say, do you think that's, that's an effective narrative in this day in age. do you think the other countries bias the lot in the united states? i mean you have people on opposite sides of the literally willing to engage in a civil war. that's what we had with the small people who literally wanted to tear down society area. many of the people were in the armed forces there

in the police. americans had heart medicine. america. so yeah, you know, if i had that, you know, everything is solved by a free market and free speech. it doesn't work. and you know, right down in china, if you ask people that's what they tell you. absolutely not. looking at the gun violence united states division, you know, people like you know, house. oh sure. i want to give you a vaccine on, on. i'm pretty, i feel like my, my disease to everybody. that's my right. where are the responsibility in china? you know, they go on the other side responses to responsibility ahead of nutri desires . and it's not about like there are right, the responsibility, the individual and grouping us it has become magnified and

how can i possibly have like, i have no responsibility. and you have politicians who were out there, lee, plains and these kind of nonsense. and all it is you need more to be sure they want power, but they have no idea what they're going to accept. christ tried to create mr . king and the parents. they didn't get any more than a stick in the 2nd part of our discussion, but we have to live up here. thank you very much for your insights today. and thank you for watching hope here again on was the part ah with . mm

lou and i forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is a conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to create trust rather than fit with various job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with obama protective phone existence with

i think will this fuss around next. rom supply. see, crepe has only one goal that is to drag out the military conflict as long as possible. in his 1st interview, since the start of the conflict vladimir takes aim out, the huge amounts of western arg was being shipped to ukraine, but claims russian defense is, are called cracking them like nuts. also ahead with 5 civilians are killed over the weekend of the done yet. people's republic comes under ukrainian shelling belts, according to local officials. we report from the c o l.