ah, ah ah, the me, the me i hello and welcome which was the part united with them divided the fall. this may be one of the oldest and most popular motorists in human history is cited

in a fable. and they have reported saga in the new testament and of course, in multiple speeches of american presidents that's true on personal or national level that's also apply to the world. to discuss that, i'm now joined from basing by a north tank and senior fellow at the time her institute. this is how can it's great to see you to talk to you. thank you very much for time. now let me start the diarrhea that i mentioned in my introduction, that house and that's the biblical version. how that is divided against itself cannot stand, wouldn't be fair to say that the world as we know it today, is perilously divided or has it always been that way? well, there are moments a division. i mean, there's always division within society. tells me you can have, but today what we face is unparalleled. we see unwinding of an international world order that the u. s. put in place after world war 2. it created the cold war. there

was this momentary euphoria during the term of rom reagan when it seems like us a while, but then that was quickly. now, all the good, well, was quickly spent. the charges going into afghanistan and more asian rock. now you see say to just looking to play mothers worth working. you start looking at lower middle class, especially white american. they're on the by margaret on one side. they are charged that they're the problem of society. and the other hand, they see that they're not increased the last 40 years, i mean, going sideways. meanwhile, people on wall street are making more money to to rich men in the united states. well, is greater than the entire nation. so when you start looking at these,

all these and what's happening within us, but that division has now shred. you mentioned the number of historical people starting in the 2nd world war and perhaps even before that then, you know, they won't have to have seen many challenges over the last century. and yet i heard you recently say that this could be one of the worst patches for humanity to go through in over a 100 years. that's a pretty dramatic assessment. what made you reaches well, is this what i was, meaning that you have political once or nomic, i'm long with us changing a global, retreating from them. you know, i think you have an economic transportation transformation where literally going through a paradigm shift and it's not going very well. china is rising

economically where jewelry and digital revolution, it's really going to have as much as the industrial revolution. i mean, we started thinking about the number of this place, it will be truck drivers, drivers, ash, cruise ships, things become more economist why, because that's why these things will happen to people that. busy we know economically, money has its own logic and it was through see that today with the amount of money that china because they have a stable government in russia when russia said, okay, you want well payable back up now, so strong,

weaker. so, you know, they're only kind of constantly going on the, all the logic, all the ideas that were in the past, i no longer valid. there's a lot of cation racing. that change is being very difficult or power. it's like a shock. i ask you something on the issue of russia just to narrow it a little bit because you're already paying to get very broad and pretty complex picture for our audience. but if you look at the many of the western media, you'll get an idea that the current confrontation between russia and the west over your brain is one of the major reasons. if not the major reason for things falling apart. i think your partially answered my question, but i'm going to ask it anyway to give you an opportunity to perhaps, to elaborate on that. is it indeed the fact that you know, the, the russian action into your brain, saturday scales in motion of was this,

were those the balance in ukraine in themselves, the consequence of something that was people, i don't know if you, if you look at a fusions stacy, since they all said that any action ukraine would bring more with this is kitchen here, this is key and we are safe. there is no, never any question. no one's not, not true. or nato expansion is calculated to create a reaction actually came. that is not, excuse me, i'm not in paper was i and neither am i right away and i don't think there are the issue is if i back you order a new start coming out clean and other people get hurt. i can't say we did one

thing. i mean, you asked me a couple question russia into the situation with that was not, excuse me back, but you know, and unfortunately, you know, after iraq, which strategy will they use? probably want to use other country like there was the week and the enemy concerned about this and why one crane was shot interlining with your a cake and grain. so really dangerous when countries to use other countries as proc me call. i mean, it's kind of your estimation, it's probably not possible probable chart to see that already know mr. chang and in another interview, you're also called the situation and ukraine. a boy that was deliberately created

for p r purposes. and that caught my attention because it's hard to imagine what kind of p r results would justify know the only the amount of suffering and loss, the ukrainians, and the russians are going through. but also the ripple effect throughout the world . that base price that is having and countries that have absolutely nothing to do with either russia, ukraine or the united states for that reason. well, i mean, i'm not, i'm not a favor of american inception exception. the idea that you asked him to do whether you ever necessary to bring the world into a state of democracy that america likes free markets liberal values, but the proxy that is the us trying to push the world working world direction. but it's using everything that they use,

everyone else is doing. i mean, starting war that's not liberal, it's working countries to changing regime that has nothing to do with moxie open market survey except the market itself is not dominated by in all its major industries by 2 or 3 players who are pursuing their own economic agenda. f expenses their people. so us is our situation where it's failing at home, but rather than what they're doing, blaming others abroad. so when you start talking about ukraine, you have a situation where the u. s. wants to minimize a country that it does not thing which part of the national water in the way it was already know how many regime change. yeah, we want to get a little i think it's a country that has more nuclear weapons than anybody else. what happens if you

could stabilize it? hey, it's madness. yes, it's out there. and one of us is trying to prove that it's like when everyone else is wrong, despite the fact that can lead by example. now you mentioned the so called international order, and one of the things i said hearing here in the russia is that russia actions in ukraine as hard to explain and hard to justify as they are. i may have been based not on some historical grievances on, not even on the threat perception, but rather on the cold blooded objective calculation of where the world is moving, how the balance of power in the world is shifting and the conclusion that even if the worst case scenario materialize this and all ties with the west that ca, that russia can survive and accomplish its development goal goals by associating

itself more closely with non west. and by doing that, you know, sort of strengthening this multi polar world that it wants to see, ah, what do you think about that? do you think that se utopian ideology thing that has some kernel of truth to? okay, so let's, let's update a couple of issues. you know, president who laid out very clearly and each cup lasha had said, i mean we've spoken german over at the end of the law. and so we're looking forward to europe, new home. and i clearly identified russian senior and then your ration and then 7 years later he gets up and he says, you have like us to expand into areas. you said you

would not, you will not allow us to have a home to. we are therefore no choice with the try to destroy the international order that you created. that is a nation, you know, a, what the rush or he expresses it. so no one would be surprised that you know, we do not like this international lead ordered by us, but you goes along with that because it is not fair. other countries, there is a multicultural, and that can be clearly illustrated by what's been happening on its own way, mexico, on its own way. right. you know, i mean, quite clearly things have shifted in that direction now. well, how shaking the world economy arrives. this is ally from this on. fortunately, i, you know, it could be from the ash because right now we're talking about shorter and power

shorter. and these are going to affect the country. i'm talking about the middle east africa. these are countries in asia. countries not have wherewithal eat food at the prices that they're going to be. they do not have to wear it all out. without food, you cannot live without energy. you cannot run your economy. and without it running your economy, you cannot pay your international. this is why i have a very good outlook on the situation. now what the u. s. i o power should be doing it. recognizing that the critical timing issue, this is about the survival of the human race. well mr. chang, and we are also at a very critical point in our conversation because we need to take a break now. but then we'll be back in just a few moments. ah

ah, ah . so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy foundation, let it be in arms is often very dramatic development. only personally, i'm going to disease. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully,

very critical time. time to sit down and talk ah hey, welcome back to want to part with either a chicken senior feller at they tie her institute, mr. king. and before the break, we were talking about the bit of ripple effect that the ukrainian crisis is causing around a well in the office. the russia is bearing a lot of pain. the most pain from it, because of the western attempts to cut it off completely from the rest of the global economy. and as challenging as it is both for the russian government and for the russian people. i'm hearing a paradoxical idea here in moscow that you know this amount, if

a can nomic and that your political suffering right now may actually inoculate russia against greater please. if you years down the line of when the western lat, western center, it says system will disintegrate. even further, now, obviously russia hasn't if a choice at this point of time, but do you think other countries may also think about it about perhaps lowering diet dependence on the west or you know, trying to establish our own self sufficiency and survival ability. in the case, similar sanctions are applied to them or i fag them for no reason of their own making. well yeah, one of the major issues that people haven't really talked about, and if i'm able to partners this will be another example how the will is truly more like polar not to be us than dictate catch everybody. and if you don't go

along, i mean, let's look at the history of change in your years. in iran, venezuela, you have cuba launching. it hasn't changed in right now how, how russia deals is going to be very, very important about whether in the movement towards not only a multi whole one in which economic activities market and production are increasingly moving. as is rush, my not, not my choice. so in terms of how we submitted russia, they didn't do that. a lot of it depends. one of the things that is most small, as we talked about with us, was saying that we crush your economy. lead by, you know, say, dollars. and therefore, you can pay for our oil and well, it's actually

a month. so, i mean, at this juncture, there's a certain independence. so when you start looking at your ration, you're seeing less of american info, and that is going to be traumatic. don't want to celebrate that us. why percent of the people, julian, 20 percent of that demand goes away, there will be additional hardships. so right now, yes, it's very well placed because it has energy who may not have all the extra mushrooms there might be problems be purchasing. but eventually the supply lines will be filled up media, brazil from china. right now the national class tries to make it the only one who know what meaning, not on line in this situation,

but the fact is majority in the world, not only one, but also population. that is actually not interesting. it was that was it that it's attractive. so mr. turn in the makeup of this new world order to significant example depends on what kind of relationship the countries will pursue. and i think the example of russia and china over the last couple of decades is quite instructive here because both capital, like decide their relationship as a, as a model for other countries. they see di tries the way they're structured as of the container within which immediate challenges, hardships, competing interests will be held. i've heard both the russians and the chinese suggested that could be a good model to proceed. you agree with that?

do you think it could be extrapolated to other countries? do you ultimately think that joe politics has reached the point where various countries can put the strategic shares concerns above the immediate one sided gain? i think it depends on the country and their situation. i mean, i do a lot of work on the unique i sample very well educated in the person who in ministry was talking about high ideal about the democracy, about liberalism, all of these things. and that the next moment or this answer was all about what's in a crate. and so, i mean, you either have these ideals and you try to follow them or to say every now this is really the danger of this new emerging international or that multi whole

world people start fracturing. they just say, well, with every, every country for themselves. and i do think that nation is like russia, china nationally, us in europe as a major players, leaders have to lead by example. and that means less wars, less selling of arms and things like that. and i don't mean just us. i mean, across the board. i don't know how it gone, has made life better for anybody. you look in the united states right now, going to problem which we don't have enough. i would say the problem was we have to, you mentioned a couple of individuals who have benefited from it. maybe it's about them at the end of the day. yeah, well, right now, i mean, europe is awake, the us positioning out to be the bread basket of europe and also the energy supplier. and that is not something that everybody you're comfortable with because they're very aware that the u. s. has course whenever

a lot was necessary for the united states on other countries. and i'm talking about the terrace now where we're only one election away from going right back to where donald trump was. all right, and then you can after him and you can have another flip flop. how do you run a world country when you're constantly blocking back between medical ideas and you know, it's just, it's just not possible. and this will be the undoing of united inability to plan provide a predictable future business on it. you know, people have to know that they can, if they can't do that, there's no way for lation. it matches, we should some people in the united states feel that the buyer is going to lose the house and probably the sell it when that happens,

you haven't workable government. and as he just mentioned, the inflation is, is a problem, not only for the united states, but very much for the rest of the world. and i think this is also what makes our seemingly abstract apps or discussion much less abstract because this lofty concepts like our world order has a direct impact on the prize of a loaf of bread and the local supermarket. and many people around the world, they seeing it right now, but that wasn't a day case. that wasn't the case even a decade ago, the united states was able to conduct many wars, but without its population ever feel filling effective. what do you think has changed in the world to bring that home to make the americans fill the pinch of the actions that their government is initiating on their behalf? well, we did feel pain. i'm not gonna sandwich. last failure. we've

been playing wars. there's no strategy to win an ability to lose roll and joe never knew about it. i mean, he may have gotten some news on the he's last wasn't about it because he was being financed with that was for trillion dollars between the war. you don't notice it because you don't pay that government. but right now the u. s. situation where it's overloaded with that, especially because they covered that and they're not in the position where they can even pay them. so i mean this graphic changing monetary policy in order to hear that you have the fed, which is pushing the country into a recession, if not, depression, doesn't meet up in their mind at any mission to we inflate the economy after

the worst was passed back is raising race at the fed level is great, tertiary economy, jobs the amount of nations et cetera. but it does not make one little read and it does not create one barrel of oil. and those are our chronic shorter hughes call ration, logistics, and also the tuition and ukraine. they don't understand that. and this is what is really bothersome when you have a really smart people who are doing really dumb things and it just feel, well, i think the question is still open, how smart they are. and i think that brings us to these long discussion about. 1 what constitutes good governance, because from the chinese perspective, what is and effective governance is a craving, some basic conditions for, you know, good, productive human life and development. rather than feeding people are some on ideological

ideas of why freedom is, is more beneficial than the so called the talk or see, the americans are still framing on that politics in the, in this way of freedom versus, or liberty versus a talker. so do you think that's, that's an effective narrative in this day in age? do you think the other countries by the modern united states, i mean you have people on the opposite sides of the fence literally willing to engage in a civil war. that's what we had with the small people who literally wanted to tear down society area. and many of the people were in the courses they are in the police now contact heart medicine america. so yeah, you know, nice idea that you know, everything is solved by

a free market and free speech. it doesn't work right down in china. if you ask people, that's what they tell you. absolutely not. looking at the gun violence, united states division, you know, people why dance? you know how so? sure. i want to give you a vaccine on, i'm sorry, my bad my, my disease to everybody. that's my right. where are the responsibility in china? you know, they go on the other side responses, society responsibility ahead of the individual desires. and it's not about like there are right responsibilities, the individual. and if you ask, it has become magnified and how can i possibly have like i have the ability and you have politicians who are out there. let me explain to these kind of

nonsense and all it is more that they want power when they have no idea what they're going to cry, trying to claim. now, mr. king and the parents, they didn't get any more to stick in the 2nd part of our discussion, but we have to leave it here. thank you very much for your insights today. and thank you for watching hope to here again on was the part ah with mm. blue

i was trying to remember jackson philadelphia got in the movement at age 13, going on 14 to we were violent towards those people because we believed that we're in this race were here 1st. and this is our country being part of that movement. i got a sense of power when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i felt a level life after hey, is an organization that was founded by for a skinhead the on on the white supremacists in the u. s. in canada and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out. there's 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremist. the 1st part is disengagement, which is where you leave the social group. and then the next part is de radicalization where belief systems audiology are removed. it was very impactful when someone finally came along with no fear, no judgement,

you heard my story did nothing to challenge it. validate, i think will this fuss around next. rom supplies. the crate has only one goal. that is to drag out the military conflict as long as possible. in his 1st interview, since the start of the conflict vladimir takes aim out, the huge amounts of western arms being shipped to ukraine, but claims russian defense is our quote. correcting them like nuts, also ahead. ah 5 civilians are killed over the weekend of the done yet. people's republic comes under ukrainian shelling belts, according to local officials. we report from the scene all around the you can see this is a residential area very heavily populated. this is one of those around.