in over a 100 years, that's a pretty dramatic assessment. what made you, we should well, this what i was meaning that you have political once or nomic. i'm long with us changing the global, retreating from them. you know, i think you have an economic transportation relation where literally going through a paradigm shift and it's not going very well. china is rising economically as opposed to jewelry and digital revolution. it's really going to have as much as an industrial. let me start thinking about the number of displace it'll be truck drivers, actually drivers, ash, cruise or ship things become more economist why? because that's why these things happen to people that. busy we know,

economically, money has its own. logic follows through today with the amount of money that china, because they have a stable government in russia. when russia simply said, okay, you want, well, what back up now, so strong, weaker. so you know, they're unintended, constantly on the, on the logic. all the ideas were in the past. i no longer valid. there's a lot of change in racing that changes being very difficult or power. it's like a shock when i ask you something on the issue of russia just to narrow it a little bit because you're already paying to get very broad and pretty complex picture for our audience. but if you look at the many of the western media,

you'll get an idea that the current confrontation between russia and the west over your brain is one of the major reasons. if not the major reason for things falling apart. i think your partially answered my question, but i'm going to ask if any way to give you an opportunity to perhaps to elaborate on that is it indeed the fact that you know the, the russian action into your brain, saturday scales in motion or was this were those, the balancing ukraine in themselves, the consequence of something that was people, i don't know if you, if you look at a fusions stacy, since they all said that any action ukraine would bring more with this is kitchen here. this is,

can we say that there is no question? no one's not, not true or anything like that. so nato expansion is calculated to create a reaction. it is actually not, excuse me, i'm not in favor was neither am i right away and i don't think there are the issue is if i back you order a new start coming out clean and other people get hurt. i can't say we did one thing. i mean, you asked me a couple pushing russia into the situation that was not, excuse bakley, you know, and unfortunately, you know, after iraq, which strategy where they use probably want to use other country like there was a week and the enemy. i was concerned about this new train, you know, the shock interlining when you're, when you're a k,

i n grain so really dangerous when countries use other countries as proc me, call it kind of your estimation. it's probably not possible probable chart to see that already. now mr. chang and in another interview, you're also called the situation ukraine. a boy that was deliberately created for p r purposes. and that caught my attention because it's hard to imagine what kind of p r, results would justify and only the amount of suffering and loss the ukrainians, and the russians are going through. but also the ripple effect throughout the world . that base price it is having and countries that have absolutely nothing to do with either russia, ukraine or the united states for that reason. well, i mean, i'm not back. i'm not

a favor of american inception and exception. the idea that you asked to do whether you ever necessary bring the world to the state of democracy that america likes free markets, legal values. but we see that is the us trying to push the world working world direction, but it's using everything that they use. everyone else is doing, i mean, starting war, that's not living with me. it's working countries to changing regime that has nothing to do with moxie open markets or re, except the market itself is not dominated by in all its major industries. my 2 or 3 players who are pursuing their own economic agenda, f expenses their people. so the u. s. is in this situation where it's

failing at home, but rather than the front that what they're doing is blaming others abroad. so when you start talking about ukraine, you have a situation in the us wants to minimize any country that it does not thing which part of national are in the way it was already know how many regime change. yeah, you want to get a little, i mean, if a country that has more weapons than anybody else, what happens if you could save life? it, it seems madness. yes, it's out there and why us is trying to prove that it's like everyone else is wrong despite the fact that can lead by example. now you mentioned the so called international order, and one of the things i said hearing here in the russia is that russia's actions in ukraine as hard to explain and hard to justify as they are. i

may have been based not on some historical grievances on, not even on the threat perception, but rather on the cold blooded objective calculation of where the world is moving. how'd the balance of power in the world is shifting and the conclusion that even if the worst case scenario materialize this and all ties with the west, that ca, that russia can survive and accomplish its development goals? goals by associating itself more closely with non west and by doing that, you know, sort of strengthening this multi polar world that it wants to see. or what do you think about that? do you think that se utopian ideology thing that has some kernel of truth to? okay, so let's look at a couple of issues. you know, president who laid out very clearly in is just hearing russia

had said, i mean we've spoken german at the end of the wall. and so we're looking forward to our home and i clearly identified russian senior and then your ration. and then 7 years later he gets up and he says, you have like us to expand into areas. you said you would not, you will not allow us to happen to. we are therefore no choice with the try to destroy the international order that you created that nation. you know, a, what the rush he expresses. so no one will be surprised that we do not like this international lead ordered by us that goes along with

not fair other countries. there is a multi whole and that can be clearly illustrated by what's been happening on its own way. mexico, on its way. right. in asia, i mean quite clearly things have shifted in that direction now. well, how shape the world economy arrives? how this is a rise from this? unfortunately, i, you know, it could be from the ash because right now we're talking about shortage power shortage. and these are going to affect countries talking about middle east africa. these are countries in the country setting, not where we compete, food at the prices that they're going to be. they do not have the wherewithal power . without food, you cannot live without energy. you cannot run your economy, and without your economy, you cannot pay your international. so this is why i haven't very,

really outlook on the situation. now. what is the u. s. i overall power should be doing it. recognizing that this is the critical issue. this is about the survival of the human race. well, mister turner, we are also at a very critical point in our conversation because we need to take a break now. but we will be back in just a few moments. and ah, me i ah ah

ah, a talking with a with a does she somebody over there both of those with

you up on video when you look at them you up boils up with the idea is you know that way. i don't mind. oh was recently munoz carter to magna if you speak russian, keep your voice down while out and about a couple don't put your human symbols on display a little space each night. all right, so you guys don't talk to strangers.

7 i avoid noisy gatherings with your colleagues and perhaps also your friends think you're guilty because you'll russian a allowed to with being a specific social timing. mm hm. mm hm. welcome back to one of the forth with a senior fellow and they try her institute. mr. chang,

and before the break we were talking about the a fact that the ukrainian crisis is causing around a well then obviously the russia is bearing a lot of pain. the most pain from it, because of the western attempts to cut it off completely from the rest of the global economy and as challenging as it is both for the russian government and for the russian people. i'm hearing a paradox. so idea, sure. in moscow that you know, this amount that i cannot make, and geopolitical suffering right now, may actually inoculate russia against greater pains, a few years down the line. when the western lat wessel center, its system will disintegrate. even further. now over russia has a choice at this point of time, but do you think other countries may also think about it about perhaps flooring that dependence on, on the west or you know,

trying to establish our own self sufficiency and survival ability. in the case, similar sanctions are applies to them or i fax them for no reason of their own making. well, yeah, i mean, one of the major issues that people haven't really talked about in russia is able to survive this. this will be another example of how the world is truly like color, not the us and dictate everybody. and if you don't go along, i mean look, look at the history of sanctions, your years in iran, venezuela, you have cuba long. it hasn't changed right now. how, how russia deals with this is going to be very, very important about whether in the movement towards not only a multi whole one in which economic activities market in production are

increasingly moving. as is rush, my not, not by choice. so in terms of how all this work is how they do that, a lot of these parents, one of the things that is most noticeable as we talked about with us, was thinking that we crush your economy by dollars. and therefore, your brushes said paper are well, and we will be very well, it's actually a bug where a month. so i mean this juncture is certainly independent. so when you start looking at your integration, you're seeing less of american info, and that is going to be traumatic. i don't know if you celebrate that us. why percent of the people? julian 20 percent of that demand goes away. there will be additional hardships.

so right now, yes, russia is very well placed because we have energy who may not have all the extra luxuries. there might be problems be purchasing, but eventually the supply lines will be filled up media, brazil, china host approaches, right now, the national class strikes to make it the only one who know we're not on line in this situation, but the fact is majority in the world not only one, but also population that is actually not interest war that was attracted to mr. king and the makeup of this new world order, for example, depend on what kind of relationship the countries will pursue. and i think the

example of russia and china over the last couple of decades is quite instructive here because both capital, like decide their relationship as the, as a model for other countries. they see, you know, di trying the way they are structured as a container within the which immediate challenges, hardships, competing interest will be held. i've heard both the russians and the chinese just that, that's who be i would model to proceed. you agree with that? do you think it could be extrapolated to other countries? do you ultimately think the joe politics has reached the point where various countries can put the strategic shares, concerns above the immediate one side of gain? i depends on the country and their situation. i mean, i do a lot of work on the i was very well educated in the

person who in ministry was talking about high ideal democracy, about liberalism, all of these things. and that the next moment part is answer was all about what you know. so i mean, you either have these ideals and you try to follow them or you just say every now, this is really the danger of emerging international or that where most of all the world's people start fracturing, they just say, well, with every, every country for themselves and i do think that nations like russia, china, initially usa, europe, as a major players, is leaders have to lead my example. and that means less wars, less selling of arms and things like that. and i don't mean just us. i mean, across the board. i don't know how it gone, has made life better for anybody. you look in the united states right now. i don't

problem which we don't have to knock on. i would say the problem was we have to, you mentioned a couple of individuals who have benefit from it. maybe it's about them at the end of the day. yeah, well, right now, i mean, europe is awake. the us positioning yourself to be the bread basket of europe and also the energy supplier. and that is not something that everybody you're comfortable with because they're very aware that the u. s. has course, whenever a lot was necessary for the united states on other countries and i'm talking about the terrace now where we are only one election away from going right back to where donald trump was. right. and then you can after him, you can have another flip flop. how do you run of a world country when you're constantly flip flopping back between

medical ideas and you know, it's just, it's just not possible. and this will be undoing united inability to plan provide a predictable future business on it. you know, people have to know that they can, if they can't do that, there's no way for lation is matches. we should some 7 percent of people in the united states feel that the buyer is going to lose the house and probably the senate when that happens, if you haven't workable government and as he just mentioned, the inflation is, is a problem not only for the united states but very much for the rest of the world. and i think this is also what makes our seemingly abstract apps are discussion much less abstract because this lofty concepts like our world order has a direct impact on the prize of a loaf of bread in the local supermarket. then many people around the world,

they seeing it right now, but that wasn't today case, it wasn't the case even a decade ago, the united states was able to conduct many wars without its population ever filling effective. what do you think has changed in the world to bring that home to make the americans fill the pinch of the actions that their government is initiating on their behalf? well, we did feel a pain, i mean not dennis downwards. last year we've been playing wars. there's no strategy to win an ability to lose roll. joe never knew about it. i mean, he may have gotten some news on his life. wasn't about it because he was being financed with that was for trillion dollars between the war. you don't notice it because you don't pay that the government. but right now the u

. s. situation where it's overloaded with that, especially because these lawyers and then come with that. and they're not in the position where they can even have them drastic change in monetary policy. in order to hear that you have the fed, which is pushing the country into a recession, if not, depression, doesn't meet up in their mind at any mission to we inflate the economy after you know the worst was back is raising race at the fed level is great, tertiary economy, jobs, the amount of the national, et cetera, but it does not make one little read and it does not create one barrel of oil. those are our chronic shorter hughes because my current situation and also situation ukraine. they don't need to understand that. and this is what is really

bothersome when you have really smart people who are doing really dumb things and it just feel, well, i think the question is still open, how smart they are. and i think that that brings us to these long discussion about . 1 what constitutes good governors, because from the chinese perspective, what is and effective governance is a craving some basic conditions for, you know, good, productive human life and development. rather than feeding people are some on ideological ideas of why freedom is it, is more beneficial than the so called the talk prosy. the americans are still framing on that politics in the, in this way of freedom versus, or liberty versus a talker. so do you think that's, that's an effective narrative in this day in age? do you think the other countries by the modern united states,

i mean you have people on opposite sides of the mentally willing to engage in a civil war. that's what we had with the small people who literally wanted to tear down society area. many of the people were in the armed forces. they are in the police now compared to the medicine america. so yeah, you know, it's ideal that you know, everything is solved by a free market and free speech. it doesn't work. and you know, right down in china, if you ask people that's what they tell you. absolutely not. looking at the gun, the violence in united states division, you know, people like, you know, health insurance. i want to give you a vaccine on, on. i'm pretty my to everybody. that's my right. where are the

responsibility in china? you know, they go on the other side response of society responsibility ahead of the, in the nutri desires. and it's not about like there are right responsibility. the individual and us is become magnified and how can i possibly have like i have the ability and you have politicians who are out there li claim to be kind of nonsense. and all it is you need more than they want power, but they have no idea what they're going to accept. christ tried to create more natural. well, mr. king and the parents, they didn't get any more than a stick in the 2nd part of our discussion. but we have to leave it here. thank you very much for your insights today. and thank you for watching hope to here again on

was the part ah with mm ah, ah, during the 2nd world war in nazi occupied, poland, virginia was a farming region. today is part of ukraine between 943 or 945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army, led by step on bendara, occurred thousands of holes in valeria, in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process, the murders were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted the valinda massacre is without doubt one of the bloodiest episodes in

polish ukrainian history. why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past? and why does the memory of belinda still divide people and i did a news and tax on other countries economic sanctions are, are often just beginning. another thing you like to do is place some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about here. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that country. ah, we have

a responsibility for the whole world and we need to make rules for the rest. because without out there, we can do a, a with that with a

with i think will this fuss around next. rom supply. she crane. there's only one goal that isn't going to drag out the military conflict as long as possible and its 1st interview. since the start of the conflict study, may putin criticizes the huge amount of weapons being then ukraine. the mission forces are cracking them like not. this comes as more voices from the us colon. you have to make concessions to moscow as retired. the u. s. general says ukraine likes the military capability to defeat russia. there is no way that the brain and will ever have enough combat power to keep the russians out of ukraine as well. and so what does that look like in the, in game? as incense fighting continues in ukraine, r t follows that russian forces using drugs to locate an attack. you create new position right now. they're anticipating a come.