just a patient, we should be very careful about official intelligence at the point, obviously is to create trust rather than fear a various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with obama protect his own existence with a with

hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things considered. id labelle, western leaders have a habit of reminding us nothing about your grade without you. right. this is rather curious as ukraine has been a western client states since the co, against the democratically elected government in 2014. but there may be a copy out here, and it's called wag the dog. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess towards some u. l. e. in budapest, he is a podcast the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow having survey monroe, he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis, scrapple or a gentleman, cross type rules,

and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated. well, let's go to budapest, george. i need your infinite wisdom here to explain something to me because it's some of these things that are being said about ukraine coming from the west. just don't make any a coherent, logical meaning for me. so we have um, the biden ministrations again, flip flopping, sending advanced muscle systems to you, right. but they're given assurances so that you know, they're not going to be fired. russia. ok. i don't know how you enforce an in assurance like that when the ukraine under zalinski is doing everything as possible to why the war to get nato more involved. and then we have salt and berg. you know, this character that runs nato. nato is a defensive alliance. easily says, every other breath, he said, you know, nato's southern bird says ukraine should, shouldn't stop. oh, shouldn't drop rather go of driving russia out of crimea. so you're getting this

missile system from the united states. and the head of nature was saying, go ahead. crimea, if you want, because you know that you could, may consider it occupied territory. russia says it's sovereign territory and we know repeatedly from the kremlin, the sovereign territory of russia is under military assaults. they will use everything. everything is on the table as they say. so george, can you explain this to me? what are these assurances and is nato on the same page as the vitamin minister? well, i think her shoulder look does seem to be on the same page as the biden administration, because the united states, i think, really doesn't care about ukraine. i think it just simply wants to extend this war for as long as possible. however much death and destruction is wrong. as a consequence. they don't care. i mean, they, when lloyd austin, the defense secretary said, we want to weaken russia. that's obviously on the policy. it's even the biden. try

to deny it in his head last week. but that's what the united states is doing. now. the europeans, you know, the so called old euro, that defense secretary donald rumsfeld, talk about the france, germany. they get it, they want this and they say, this is just not, it's just destroying the continent of europe and the europe will not recover from this, but they don't have any way. because ultimately, ukraine, as long as is being fed, you know, infinite amount number of arms from the united states. it can just keep going. and i love that is i getting an alcoholic for free reign of the booze in the bar is getting like more gambler, you know, you have unlimited credit. and i, so the, by the administration is doing, you know, whatever you want, we'll give it to you. you know, one day they say, you know, going to send you this multiple large rocker systems, then they change their mind if they will,

will make sure that the missiles are short range, you know, they're going to change their mind on that as well as so, so level, but this tool can just simply continue no, no matter how awful in the periphery, the consequences or i suppose until they run out of ukrainians. there was one point where it in exactly a still simberg statement to the craniums was quite interesting to me because the nato in its leadership are just overwhelmed. they finally found a reason to exist and they wanted to go on on. this is a bureaucracy that has been searching for emission, and now they found upon it and they actually force the issue by ignoring russia. russia on diplomatic notes on december 17th. remember one to washington, 12, brussels. they ignored it. they wanted this to happen and they've gotten what they wanted. but, you know, the, at the end of the day with george was saying here, i mean, this is just, mission creep is not they want to keep going as long as possible without really,

really any kind of coherent thought about goal of this war. go ahead example, if you remember before the ukraine crisis, which started in 2014, the propose of nato was quite a strength, for instance, in 2013. the said that the men aims to protect again, pirates in the african coast and against the trafficking of human beings. so it's good, but though you don't need a having a military allowance like not to fight against that. so of course, the, your current crisis was a very, very great opportunity for nato to justify just to, to be, to be in place. and the problem no, is that if the lows in ukraine and they're losing, and you can actually today. so is a loser. what's the purpose of natural? because if you're quite cynical, for instance,

what will happen if russia decided to innovate, for instance, the baltic countries to protect the russian speaking population will not all wheel and get more money than they did with ukraine. i don't think so. i don't mean rush, i won't do it. ok. but just just to represent that they can do, they can't do more than that. they are doing no and i was just isn't letting me put in. you said regarding the i am us a weapon system that actually ukraine has already such a system and the name is it's a 990 kilometers a range and it's exactly the same and i am just but you have, i don't know maybe 16 a rockets, but 6 on her, i'm us. so it's every single question of sending messages, sending premises to try to keep, keep fighting in russia, even if everybody knows, know that the russia ones use the soap aeration one. these were, which started 8 years ago. interesting, george, you know, you hear this phrase,

nothing about ukraine without ukraine, but i mean, that's a very curious situation here. and i said in my introduction is that, you know, in many different forms. ukraine has been a client state of the, of the west of the european union and of the united states. so give me everything you want, let them know, you know, whatever you want to give it to him. well then, you know, it goes from a client state to kind of a very fuzzy wag the dog because the, the, by the administration bo joe. and they're all in on this here. i mean, this is a very dangerous situation because you're giving worth already to the, the most junior of junior partners in this equation. go ahead but i don't think they are giving you credit for a day. i think they're making a pretense of getting out of florida, but basically they just want to keep the war going because i don't know,

i'm just simply gives you something for not so any time the united states. and i said, well, you know, this is going with strings attached and we want to just sit down and negotiate seriously. well, they say, well, they give you anything more than, you know, you're done with americans. and on this many times in the past, i mean, they did this to the south vietnamese. i did this to afghanistan. oh, that one point. that's it. we got you are, i haven't done that, does it? because i was going home. and in fact, the, this way, because it seemed like some, some kind of an agreement was in the works. and i'm bo, bone, the united states and united, gave them just moved and said that i, you know, bring this thing to an end. and since then, since the is a symbol debacle, let me know, negotiations and you know biting again said recently that well and so you know, the reason why we're getting on so your brain is to strengthen your grains,

negotiating position while negotiating. but if you want to go here a 2nd place, i think you can expect it in a moment. the grady negotiate position was friends and then a more. so it's essentially just saying, you know what, what are some calling for a cease fire? and you know, and we know what that means, so they can regroup, and they can send in more arms and all that. it has nothing to do with the negotiated and hear me. i'm more kind of a bill, a soft goal level here must not be allowed to win. well, i mean that's rhetorical. you know, it's, i guess it sounds like maybe for some people, it's a listing. but that has nothing to do with politics. if they rationality their, their, their ability to reason his escape the minutes being overcome by an ideological position that has nothing to do with reality, we would all agree. our viewers agree,

the war is going very badly for ukraine. and so this is where the conflicts come, he must not be allowed to win, but there's no way that ukraine can win unless they want to start world war 3 and then everybody loses, go ahead. you know, i imagine i don't want to come for of good the worst was hitler. but i imagine this in the beginning of 2945. so we can over the west and the allies to win the war. so it's not a question. what you want to a lot, so what you can do, and if you observe what's up and on the shield during the last week, there is a such a many, a disparate cnn assault. i mean a, you know, a zalinski and the, and the west need just a small victory just taking a small village just to say that, ok, we are counter attacking. we are going to win. but the even which older, although the force is a sense that they couldn't achieve such a victory, it's

a complete collapse everywhere on the front line. but of course, as you say, justin on the irrational approach of this conflict and the will continue sending many for us is losing the last a huge, it's very, it's a, it's very dangerous for the, for the recurrent frontline. but the disparity want to win just just one village, just so i can say on the french channels on the us channels on the other with some channels that we can try taking. well, going to win just for just for what i can't explain because again, we are on a, an unusual approach of these conflicts. that is not right because this the sanction where gene that has been posed on russia is boomerang backfired. and it's the last with experiencing all of the, the, the pain of the sanction. so they have to have something to just by what they have

done it. yes. well, let's try and unfortunately on the west is basically ruled by the united states earlier because the house from we would expect something sensible. and i think that they probably do have some sensible, wasn't shown micro shows draggy. this is insane. we just don't like this, this is just destroying our economy. they don't really have any in anything because they've allowed themselves to be essentially stopping to lose more text of nato. and i brought in these new nato members who are absolutely demented. i'm in the bowl in the baltic space. you know, the, you know, the, you know, the check republican about garrett. they are actually, you know, running things as opposed to the, you know, the most sensible powers and therefore, is something, you know, my problem. they say things above the sense of what he said it the other day,

but he just simply is overwhelmed by other people who are really running the show. and obviously it makes them wait because their words have no impact whatsoever. so you talked to putney, you don't talk to the results of the say, i gentlemen that your company here, we're going to go to a short break. and after that your break will continue our discussion and stay with our ah ah, during the 2nd world war and nazi occupied poland valencia was a farming region to doing as part of ukraine between 19431945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by step on bendara, nasa could thousands of poles in valeria, in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the murders were particularly horrific and

brutal villages were burned and property looted of aline. a massacre is without doubt, one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. why are ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events? how to modern day ukraine and poland view this tragedy of the past? and why does the memory of aline, us to divide people ah, ah, ah ah ah, ah, i

ah ah, welcome back to process. we're all things considered. i'm futile. well, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah or is collect exactly a hearing? yes. so you know, there's all this talk about negotiation today. they go, she a, you know what? well, what should they accept the ukrainians? i mean, what's the best venue, the timing of the rest correlation of forces as the soviets used to say. and i found that to be just all of it to be nonsensical because the, the fact that the, the west would not interact in good faith with russia. but prior to this conflict,

and i'm looking at the again, december 17th, all the way to february 24th, they weren't good. faith actors did not take rushes concerns seriously. and the russians warned military technical response. we got it. ok, so, i mean, why would russia even care what ukraine has to say? well, it's, it's backers in the west have to say, you know, but usually i poll under the baltic, republics of rabid me. it's the way i look at it is that, and we've talked about this so many times the slow grind, you know, well that's how russians fight wars. ok. they do it methodically. and so my, my thoughts are the russians will say when the war is over, when they are ready, it will be their time table and they will dictate the results. there will not be maybe a minute chat a little bit here. and there might be some discussion, but basically as i thought, this is the outcome of the war. and you must live with it because there's nothing you can do about it unless you want to go to the new killer. you want,

you want the, you want to test the master shared destruction thesis, but basically it's because the russian saves the west as not having any good faith actors. they're going to have to make unilateral decisions and they have, they are in the position to do that. if you remember on the 21st of february, 2014, the french, the polish, and the german, us a minister to sign an agreement to go out to crisis. this agreement last less than 24 hours in 2015 to sign the agreement. there was a vote on the un, and so aris, every people who voted in, including the u. s. a, are supposed to guarantees this agreement, they didn't do anything. so of course, russia doesn't trust the west and a russia's rights. and, you know,

the problem is russia has already changed one time, is a war ems is a war targets. it was on the $22.00 of f will, before the target was a dumbass and cremate to be recognized by jeff as independent or the part of russia . and on the 22, on the 22nd of april, that they said i to change the target and also targets to control all the south coast of ukraine. so, wednesday we'll have a liquidated, do you current army in don bus? i mean, the men of their crime isn't dumbass actually. they are will be able to chant against the targets. why not? uh huh. why not check? i see the can they come to i to his origin that can take what they wants. so father for kiff and father west, it's an emergency to, to try to honestly negotiate with russia and to stop fighting,

not to cease fire, to stop fighting to the lens. he has to get the order to look or an army. ok, we are, we lost a war and it's time to, to negotiate on a good face. and without that, a rush i will window that the war ended and on bus. and maybe after that it will change again the ams and the next m's could be worse and worse for ukraine. of course, you know, church as a lint, k is not often said that he wants to negotiate one to one with, but i will, i will. well, imagine that from the russian side, the only phone call they want to get from zalinski is an unconditional surrender your thoughts? yeah, i think that's right. i think a very good point because the long list of those on the higher the price of russia will exact from ukraine and the wes, i mean, it just makes sense. i mean, you now sacrifice a great deal. you want to reward for last sacrifice. so raw, i get off the will to

a heavy beating a terrible devastation. now, you know, a lot of things for our security. and i think that this is a historic opportunity for russia to address various security vulnerabilities that a lot of the breakup of the soviet units. ok, you know, the, i think the, the back seat goes to go to control of the city of seacoast. they going to control, i think they're going to get the land bridge to transmit syria. so, you know, maybe even more, i mean, you know, that's, that's it. i mean, is this, you know, the live this historic opportunity just to pass them by. it's such a good point to things here. let's not forget russian public opinion will not allow anything less than an absolute victory. public opinion is important here, and just that you can expand upon this point. this is all about russia security.

this is not about rebuilding the soviet union. it's not just oracle a fight with you. read all the nonsense you hear? george is absolutely right. we stop this all started by russian demanding it's security guarantees in europe. and because it doesn't have honest interlocutors in the west, it will create those conditions all by itself w. yes, of course. and know that we can add that to put in belongs to the so i'm sorry, in, in community in the eighty's were thought that the soviet union was too big. and it was too expensive for the soviet republic of russia. so it's look the question of rebuilding a huge empire, which is a impossible to rule and possible to, to, to, to make wealthy because because too big. so for, for russia, the only thing to do is get a safety get security and protect russian people. because in the ukraine,

you have russian people and you are russian speaking people. so this people are closer to russia than to the west than even to move on to a today. so of course, there is no question to with the question of protecting people to protect the russian people and especially in the bus. and when you see precisely, that's all this a phonetic battalions. they hate people living in them, but they use it as a you use them as a human shield because the heads and it's not a problem to exterminate them. so yes, i agree. it's not the question of rebuilding a suggestion of security and of protecting people in the bus and in the russian speaking part of your grand dis, the back up of the said he makes what he said. it makes perfect sense because i would explain why russia didn't change, why there hasn't been a regime chain. all the other things when the u. s. is around the world all the

time. ok. but the russian, any of those things, i mean, how would you found it really curious that like nancy pelosi and chuck schumer can show up and walk around the center of given the middle of the war. they don't seem to be, feel any a security threat. and that he's absolutely right. it's about security interest in protecting people. and it's nothing to do with boys running, you know, showing up on the emmys or the grammys, you know, sitting in the presidential palace in campus in different it's immaterial. yes. i think that's right. it is about the russian people specifically and again, if both of them voted to inform speeches on february, the 21st of february, the 20. well, the february, the 21st stage was all about how the bolsheviks really just screwed over the russian people. right from the 917 all the way up to 991. they just go and, and that's obviously something you feel very strongly about. and he thinks of the

west is actually continuing to work a. so they are going to protect the russian people. you and i think at some point, i mean, it was obvious that the beginning the age of the baltic states is going to come up because i really wanted to put up for will away lisa, very substantial. russian population of being treated in. 1 particularly in last, the sonia again brings up, you know, the security issue, which is the basically, i access the brother on the list, a friend in the past. couple rushes, access, the billing. and so there are other issues that, you know, he's going to start raising about, you know, it's need to feel the russian people. well, i think george, you're absolutely right because maybe we don't have

a whole lot of time left on this program. but do you think you're additional sanctions that happen? why here? i mean exactly the sanction po box is empty now. ok, i mean other sanctioning relatives have relatives of relatives. ok. i mean it's, you know, it's really, it's a fanatical and now there's nothing more they can again, unless we want to go to a general mobilization a demo global war, which would be a craven choice on the side, on the part of the west. and to add to it here, what are they going to do exactly when it all does come crashing down on that? ok, because it's going to happen. going to happen sometime this summer. ok. what are they going to do then? the next step, if you look at the 2nd war, is a global society. i don't, i don't see. and it was a and use a idea. but to be most say it was a, i don't know if it's to be more sales,

but the deputy foreign minister of the european union with a polish one said does are preparing a sentence, a packet of sanctions. but i would like to know what the, what is talking about, because just a, the guess i actually have to suggest, but this is a change in supposed to include behavior. or, i mean, what's the point of sanctions if you're not influencing behavior? i mean, how long that if you have, you know, in back that so on anything russia is doing a dia with play for restrictions on the use of energy this winter as well, the food rationing on the table. so there's a point to other than what we've got to do something. so let's say he had another round of sanctions. i suppose a country friends could borrow some money from ukraine because they're swimming in

it right now. yeah, exactly. i'm going to let you finish off the program here. where does this all end? because a lot of people have invested a lot in this and gotten 0 return. 15 seconds, go ahead. there were no return and you know, the problem was a land lease. it's a, i don't know all the ukraine we get, we get back the money. we give the money back. i don't know, they can do that because ritual is taking all what interesting part of your credit? no it. what specifically is we on the, what part of ukraine is going to pay this back, who's added? and that's the point is going to be what's going to be the successor states that will help us at the ga bar. you know, it will be determined in moscow not in washington, writes all the time we have what i think my guess me here in moscow and in budapest where i think our viewers for watching this year. and i can see you next time remember ah

ah, ah, ah, need to come to the russian state. little, never. i've stayed on the northland scheme. devastation sunset for a coup in 55 when. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else with we will van in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state aunt, rush up to date, and c, r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on youtube. with

me. ah, 3 civilians are killed in that done yet. people's republic out of the area continues to come under intense artillery. dozens of missiles have reportedly been launched by ukrainian forces also ahead jim's enough with the more along that reaching the weapon systems. you'll be shipping to crate to further, we will push the line which follows the neo nazis from threatening our country. russia is foreign minister warns the west against a continuous flow of weapons to ukraine. with a conflict ryan's on a number of western media. politicians move away from their previous key as well when stamps to questioning whether they will be.