electric government in 2014, but there may be a copy out here in it's called, wag the dog. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess towards some u. l. e. in budapest, he is a podcast, the goggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow we have at seve morrow he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis strap all or a gentleman, cross type rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciated. well, let's go to budapest, george, i need your infinite wisdom here to explain something to me because it's some of these things that are being said about ukraine coming from the west. just don't make any, a coherent, logical meaning for me. so we have um, the bite administration again, flip flopping, sending advanced missile systems to you, correct? but they're given assurances so that there's, you know,

they're not going to be fired. russia. ok. i don't know how you enforce in, in assurance like that when the ukraine under zalinski is doing everything as possible to why the war to get nature more involved. and then we have start and burke, you know, this character that runs nato. nato is a defensive alliance. easily says, every other breath, he said, you know, nato's southern burke says ukraine should, shouldn't stop. i shouldn't drop rather go of driving russia, adams, crimea. so you're getting this missile system from the united states. and the head of nature was saying, go ahead. crimea, if you want, because, you know, they knew could they consider it occupied territory. russia says it's sovereign territory and we know repeatedly from the kremlin a sovereign territory of russia is under military assaults. they will use everything. everything is on the table as they say. so church, can you explain this to me?

what are these assurances and is nato on the same page as the vitamin minister? well, i think her shoulder like does seem to be on the same page as the bygone ministration . because the united states, i think i really doesn't care about ukraine. i think it just simply wants to extend this war for as long as possible. however much death and destruction is wrong. as a consequence, they don't care. i mean, they, when lloyd austin, the defense secretary said, we want to weaken russia. that's obviously not the policy. it's even the biden try to deny it in his head last week. but that's what the united states is doing. now. the europeans, you know, the so old euro defense secretary donald rumsfeld talked about the france, germany, they did it, they want this and they think this is just not, it's just destroying the continent of europe and the europe just will not recover

from this. but they don't have any way, because ultimately, ukraine, as long as is being fed, you know, an infinite amount number of arms from the united states. it can just keep going. and i love that it's like giving an alcoholic, a free reign of the booze in the bar is getting like, or gamma, you know, you have unlimited credit. and i, so the, by the administration is doing, you know, whatever you want, we'll give it to you. you know, one day they say, you know, going to send you this multiple large rocket systems, then they change their mind if they will, will make sure that the missiles are short range, you know, they're going to change their mind on that as well as so. so therefore, but this tool can just simply continue no, no matter how often the periphery, the consequences or i suppose until they run out of ukrainians. there was one point where it, in exactly a stolen burg statement to the claims was quite interesting to me because the nato in its leadership are just overwhelmed. they finally found

a reason to exist and they wanted to go on on and on screen. this is a bureaucracy that has been searching for a mission, and now they found upon it and they actually force the issue by ignoring russia. russia on diplomatic notes of december 17th, remember one to washington, 12, brussels. they ignored it. they wanted this to happen. and they've gotten what they wanted, but you know, the, at the end of the day when george was saying here, i mean, this is just mission creep is. and they want to keep going as long as possible without really, really any kind of coherent thought about a goal of this war. go ahead. example. if you remember before, the ukraine crisis, which started in 2014, the propose of nato was quite a strain. for instance, in 2013, they said that the men aims to protect again pirates in the african

coast and against the trafficking of human beings. so it's good, but though you don't need a having a military allianz like not to fight against that. so of course, the, you can in crisis was a very, very great opportunity for nato to justify just to, to be, to be in place. and the problem know is that if the lows in ukraine and they're losing and you can actually today. so is a loser. what's the purpose of natural? because, or if you're quite cynical, for instance, what will happen if russia decided to innovate, for instance, the baltic countries to protect the russian speaking population will not all wheel and get more than they did with ukraine. i don't think so. i mean, rush, i want to, it's ok, but just just to represent that they can do is they can't do model that they are doing know, and i was just listening, reading a put in a set of regarding the i am us

a weapon system that actually ukraine has already such a system and the name is it's a 990 kilometers a range and it's exactly the same and i am just but you have, i don't know, maybe 16 a rockets but 6 on or i am us. so it's, everything is question of sending messages, sending promises to try to keep, keep fighting in russia, even if everybody knows, know that the russia ones use the soap aeration one these were, which started 8 years ago. interesting, george, you know, you hear this phrase. nothing about ukraine without ukraine, but i mean, that's a very curious situation here. and i said in my introduction, is that, you know, in many different forms. ukraine has been a client state of the, of the west of the european union and of the united states. so give me everything you want, let them know, you know, whatever you want to give it to him. well then, you know, it goes from

a client state to kind of a very fuzzy wag the dog because the, the, by the administration bo joe. and they're all in on this here. i mean, this is a very dangerous situation because you're giving worth story to the, the most junior of junior partners in this equation. go ahead, but i don't think they are giving you credit for it. i think a pretense of getting it all florida, but basically they just want to keep the war going because i don't know, i'm just simply gives you something for not so any time the united states. and i said, well, you know, this is going with strings attached. we want you to sit down and negotiate seriously. well, basically want to give you anything that you know, you're done with americans and on this many times in the past, i mean, they did this to the south vietnamese. i did this to afghanistan. oh that one point . that's it. we got, you are, i haven't done that, does it? what's going on?

and in fact, it's done the this way because it seemed like some, some kind of an agreement was in the works, and some bo bone, the united states and united, gave them just moved. and said that i, you know, bring this thing to an end. and since then, since the is a symbol debacle. let me know, negotiations and you know biting again, said recently that well and so you know, the reason why we're getting on so your brain is to strengthen your grains, negotiating position while negotiating. if you want to go here the 2nd place, i think you can back in the moment, the grady negotiating position was strengthened a little more. so it's essentially just saying, you know what, what are some calling for a cease fire? and you know, and we know what that means, so they can regroup,

and they can send in more arms and all that. it has nothing to do with any go shaded and here and sunday, i'm more kind of a bill, a soft goal level here. newton must not be allowed to win. well, i mean that's rhetorical. you know, that i guess it sounds like maybe for some people it's a listing. but that has nothing to do with geo politics if they rationality their, their, their ability to reason his escape the minutes being overcome by an ideological position that has nothing to do with reality. we would all agree. our viewers agree, the war is going very badly for ukraine. and so this is where the conflict come. he must not be allowed to win. but there's no way that ukraine can win unless they want to start world war 3 and then everybody loses, go ahead. you know, i imagine i don't want to come for, of course the west was hitler, but i imagine this in the beginning of april, 2945. so we can over the west and the allies to win the

war. so it's not the question what you want to a lot, so what you can do, and if you observe what happened on the shield during the last week, there is a such a many, a disparate cnn assault. i mean a, you know, a zalinski and the, and the west need just a small victory just taking a small village just to say that, ok, we are counter attacking. we are going to win. but the even which older, although the force is a sense that they couldn't achieve such a victory, it's a complete collapse everywhere on the front line. but of course, as you say, there are still on the irrational approach of this conflict. and the will continue sending many for us is losing the last a huge, it's very it's, it's very dangerous for the, for the recurrent frontline,

but this berkeley want to win just just one village just so i can say on the french channels on the us channels on the older were some channels that work into attacking were going to win just for just for what i can't explain because again, we are on a, an unusual approach of these conflicts. that is not right because it's the same. that regime that has been posed on russia is boomerang backfired, and it's the last that it is experiencing all of the, the, the pain of the sanction. so they have to have something to just by what they have done. yes. well, that's right. and unfortunately on, you know, the west is basically ruled by the united states earlier because the house from boom, we would expect something sensible. and i think that they probably do have some sensible cause. i'm sure micro shows draggy. this is insane. we just

don't like this, this is just destroying our economy. they don't really have any in anything because they've allowed themselves to be essentially stopping to lose bought x of nato. and they've brought in these new nato members who are absolutely demanded said i'm in the bowl on the baltic space. you know, the very, you know, that even though the, you're the czech republic, both about garrett, they are actually, you know, running things as opposed to the, you know, the more, the more sensible powers and therefore, is rather, you know, my problem i give, you know, say things labovic, his sense of what he said it been the other day, but he just simply is overwhelmed by other people who are really running the show. and obviously it makes them wait because their words have no impact whatsoever. so you talk to pony, you don't have to put in the result of this. and i gentlemen going to come in here . we're going to go to a short break. and after that you broke it in your discussion. stay with our ah ah

ah, ah, during the 2nd well, lou in nazi occupied poland, virginia was a farming region to dance mont of ukraine. between 1943, a 945 members of the ukrainian insurgent army led by stepan. bandera. nasa could thousands of holes in virginia in a diabolical ethnic cleansing process. the murders were particularly horrific and brutal villages were burned and property looted. valinda massa is without doubt one of the bloodiest episodes in polish ukrainian history. while ukrainian politicians still reluctant to talk about these events, how to modern day ukraine and poland view, this tragedy of the past. and why does the memory of aline, us to divide people ah,

a petition with that you for that? ah, welcome back to cross not we're all things considered. i'm peter little. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah, i select exactly a hearing this guy said, hey, you know,

there's all this talk about negotiation today. they go, she a, you know, what? well, what should they accept the ukrainians? i mean, what's the best venue? the timing, raise? correlation of forces. as the soviets used to say, and i find that to be just all of it to be nonsensical because the, the fact that the, the west would not interact in good faith with russia. but prior to this conflict, and i'm looking at the again, december 17th, all the way to february 24th, they weren't good. faith actors did not take rushes concerns seriously. and the russians warned military technical response. we got it. ok, so, i mean, why would russia even care what ukraine has to say? well, it's, it's backers in the west have to say, you know, particularly like poland or the baltic republics of rabid me. it's the way i look at it is that, and we've talked about this so many times the slow grind, you know, well that's how russians fight wars. ok. they do it methodically. and so my,

my thoughts are the russians will say when the war is over, when they are ready, it will be their time table and they will dictate the results. there will not be maybe a minute chat a little bit here. and there might be some discussion, but basically as i thought, this is the outcome of the war. and you must live with it because there's nothing you can do about it unless you want to go to the new killer. you want, you want the, you want to test the master shared destruction thesis, but basically it's because the russian saves the west as not having any good faith actors. they're going to have to make unilateral decisions and they have, they are in the position to do that. if you remember on the 21st of february, 2014, the french, the polish, and the german, us a minister to sign an agreement to go out to crisis. this agreement last less than 24 hours in 2015 to sign the

agreement. there was a boat on the u. n. and so heiress, every people who voted, including the u. s. a. are supposed to guarantees this agreement, they didn't do anything. so of course, russia doesn't trust the west and a russia's rights. and, you know, the problem is russia as already changed one time, is a war ems is a war targets. it was on the $22.00 of f will, before the target was a don boss and cremate to be recognized by jeff as independent or as a part of russia. and on the 22, on the 22nd of approvals that they said i to change the target and those targets to control all the south coast of ukraine. so wednesday we'll have a liquidated, do you current army in don bus? i mean,

the men of their crime isn't dumbass actually. they are will be able to chant against the targets. why not both of us? why not check and see the can they come to i to his origin that can take what they wants. so father for kiff and for the west, it's an emergency to, to try to honestly negotiate with russia and to stop fighting. not to cease fire to stuff fighting to the lens. he has to get the order to look or an army. ok . we are, we lost a war and it's time to, to negotiate on a good face. and without that, a rush i will when the war ended and on bus. and maybe after that it will change again. the ams and the next aims could be worse and worse for ukraine. of course, you know, church as a lint, k is not often said that he wants to negotiate one to one with. but i will, i will. well imagine that from the russian side, the only phone call they want to get from zalinski is an unconditional surrender

your thoughts. yeah, i think that's right. i think a very good point because the long list of those on the higher the price that russia will exact from your brain and the way, i mean it just. ready makes sense, i mean, you now sacrifice a great deal. you want to reward for less sacrifice, so raw. i get off the world war to a heavy beating a terrible devastation now, you know, because the passion, you know, a lot of things for our security. and i think that this is a historic opportunity for russia to address various security vulnerabilities that a lot of the breakup of the soviet units. ok, you know, the, i think the back seat goes to go to control of the city of seacoast. they going to control, i think they're going to get the land bridge to trans this syria. so,

you know, maybe even more, i mean, you know, that's, that's it. i mean, is this, you know, the, let this historic opportunity just to pass on. but it's such a good point to things here. let's not forget russian public opinion will not allow anything less than an absolute victory. public opinion is important here and just let you kind of expand upon this point. this is all about russia security. this is not about rebuilding the soviet union. it's not just oracle a fight with you. read all the nonsense you hear. george is absolutely right. we stuff this all started by russian demanding. it's security guarantees in europe and . and because it doesn't have honest interlocutors in the west, it will create those conditions all by itself. that yes, of course and know that we can add, that putin belongs to. so, so i'm sorry, in, in community in the eighty's were thought that the soviet union was too big and it

was too expensive for the trip public of russia. so it's the, the question of rebuilding a huge and bio which is a placebo route and possible to, to, to, to make wealthy because because to big, so for, for russia, the only thing to do is get a safety get security and protect russian people. because in the ukraine, you have russian people and your russian speaking people. so this people are closer to russia than to the west than even to move on to a today. so of course, there's no question to with the question of protecting people to protect the russian people and especially in the bus. and when you see precisely, that's all this a phonetic battalions. they hate people living in them, but they use it as a you use them as a human shield because the heads and it's not

a problem to exterminate them. so yes, i agree. it's not a question for building a selection of security and of protecting people in the bus. and in the russian speaking part of your brain. there's the back up of the said he makes what he said . it makes perfect sense because i want to explain why russia didn't change, why there hasn't been a regime chain. all the other things when the u. s. does round the world all the time. ok. but russia, any of those things? i mean, how would you found it? really curious that like nancy pelosi and chuck schumer can show up and walk around the center of given the middle of the war. they don't seem to be feel any a security threat. and, and he's absolutely right. it's about security interest in protecting people. and it's nothing to do with boys running, you know, showing up on the emmys or the grammys, you know, sitting in the presidential palace in campus in different. it's immaterial. yes, i think that's right. it is about the russian people specifically. and again,

if one thinks of them voted to inform speeches on february, the 21st of february, the 20. well, the february, the 21st stage was all about how the bolsheviks really just screwed over the russian people. right from the 917 all the way up to 991 just for the low. and that's obviously something you know you feel very strongly about. and he thinks of the west is actually continuing the work of the of so they are going to protect the russian people. you right. and i think at some point, i mean, it was obvious that at the beginning, the issue of the both states is going to come up because the berry i'm going to put up for will away lisa, very substantial russian population of be treated. 1 in particularly in last, the sonia again brings up, you know, the security issue,

which is the basically, i asked the gillian brother on the list. a friend in the past. couple rushes, access, the billing address, or there are other issues that, you know, he's going to start raising about, you know, it's need to secure the russian people. i think george, you're absolutely right because maybe we don't have a whole lot of time left on this program. but can you thank you, additional sanctions that happened? why here? i mean exactly. the sanction po box is empty now. ok. i mean other sanctioning relatives have relatives of relatives. ok. i mean, it's really, it's a fanatical and now there's nothing more they can again, unless we want to go to a general mobilization, a general global war, which would be a craven choice on the side, on the part of the west. and to add to it here, what do you do exactly when it all does come crashing down on that?

ok, because it's going to happen. it's going to happen sometime this summer. ok. what are they going to do then? the next step, if you look at the 2nd war, is a global society. i don't, i don't see. and it was a and use a idea. but to be most say it was a, i don't know if it's to be most say is, but the deputy foreign minister of the european union with a polish one said does are preparing the sentence the packet of sanctions. but i would like to know what the, what is talking about, because just a, the guess i actually have to suggest, but this is a change in supposed to be in new york. i mean, what's the point of sanctions if you're not influencing behavior? go ahead a lot that if you have, you know, in back that so on anything russia is doing

a dia with play for restrictions on the use of energy this winter as well, the food rationing on the table. so there's a point to other than what we've got to do something. so let's say he has another round of sanctions. i suppose a country friends could borrow some money from ukraine because they're swimming in it right now here. exactly. i'm going to let you finish off the program here. where does this all end? because a lot of people have invested a lot in this and gotten 0 return. 15 seconds, go ahead. there were no return and you know, the problem was a land lease. it's a, i don't know all the ukraine we get, we give back the money. we give the money back. i don't know, they can do that because ritual is taking. all right, interesting part of your credit. no, it specifically, it's me on the what part of ukraine is going to pay this bad?

who yeah, that's the point is going to be what's going to be the successor state that will help us that the, you know, it will be determined in moscow not in washington, but it's all the time we have want to thank my guest here in moscow and in budapest, where i think our viewers for watching us, your marketing see next time, remember, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is a conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is too great trust rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence. real,

somebody with obama protective own existence with a whole thing that other muslim countries to actually with this thing you with russia and china and so the cultures on different religions are different cultural backgrounds are different and common sense to humanity in watching a ah,

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