with the west, with europe in particular of course, but even with the americans. and uh, you know, the door has been slammed in its face or the window has been slammed in its face. or in a very, very fundamental way. as angler merkel used to remind people, even at the height of the cold war when there was a very acute ideological confrontation between communism and capitalism, economic relations continued between the soviet union and the west picture in the form of energy supplies. and as we all know, those have now been largely cut off. not yet the energy supplies, but are all other forms of economic corporation. and as we know, some countries are pushing for even the energy to go. and the reason why i say it's slammed and i think definitively, i mean nothing is ever definitive in history, but certainly for the medium and even long term is that this crisis occurs at the end of a, a 30 year period after the cold war, where relations have gone from cool to very cold, indeed,

frozen from bad to worse. that 30 year period followed the cold war itself, which had lasted for 4550 years and the cold war are followed. of course, the 2 world wars are, although russia and then the soviet union fought on the allied side in both those conflicts. they both were essentially what was fought between europe or at least central europe. in the case of the 1st world war and russia. it's often forgotten this. the point is often overlooked picky from a western perspective, because if your british or french, you know about the trenches in the, on the western front, but the, the war on russia, for example, in 1914, the 1st declaration of war was i, austria against serbia. and the 2nd declaration of war on the 1st of august, 1914, was by germany against russia. so the focus of those 2 world wars, and of course,

also in the 2nd world war was between europe and russia. and as i say, well, the soviet union then from 41 to 45 was of course on the allied side that was a small parenthesis. and so in other words, if you look at it in the round, we've had no more than a 100 years of major and constant jubilant of not constant, but very, very largely constant geopolitical confrontation between europe generally and russia. and that is now come to a head with this, with this latest war in a way that few people for saw and in a way which i do indeed think is absolutely a fundamental and would be very, very difficult to rope actual, i'd say very interesting and so it's kind of latter, meaning i would just given an extra caviar to what john was saying is that the, the current iteration of the window being slam shot is at the american's behest. i think it's important to point out making sure, okay, a vladimir and that same question to you. i mean, if i'm being prompt from the former soviet union now living in the west, you and i are very interesting couple because i'm an american living here. you are

a former soviet citizen living there. i'm. is this an end game here because it seems to me that the west is determined to my deny russia any access to europe. it's definitive and it could be last. it could last generations. go ahead, vladimir. i would agree with your a starting point that this is basically a united states game or that russia is in europe. and it's definitely like violent action as a slim in the door and the russians face in europe. it's, i don't think it will last, if you look into integration and, and connections are way too strong. but united states is driving it, being away from you or of being away from, from russia. it's sort of in a once to maintain the status quo, which existed during the cold war and so on. in the united states was the leader united states, the globally man, you know, way in charge is man united states could germany,

and they want to maintain it. but this is kind of impossible boys to have kind of global things into her one country dominated. so they trying to are kind of persists and, and preserve it while it's actually crumbling. but then it has one more, ma'am, that you either use a new grain as a, which to drive between europe and russia between germany and russia. and you know, they are so far they are, i would say they are succeeding somewhat, but it's in our look, you know, it's very good to go back to be the, the grade in see that certain things i, inevitable geography is a destiny and be the understood it, and you know, european understand it, but i'm being a lot of europeans are still under this form of united states that we can do it as well. no, no, no, no, no, army, or the, if the geography is destiny than the europeans should understand it. but they don't, and that is the problem here. it's got to gilbert same question. so we have

everyone answering the same question. go ahead gilbert. i will take the 1st animals. and if you seem to be on your actually who alone have other people, a very nice people, they don't do listen to those who are coughing, you'll hear an expression really that every 100 years in your state in their heads is to i rush. and so we go back little further then back it was, there was a bible legacy production here in saint petersburg. either it was the production or the number is very much thinking people in this city, the city which is

a great sound and was created to be precisely that you're hearing people do, do recall the words. so i know that all of your was coming to russia and come to moscow for the sake of spoils force and destruction of this country. ready so the we get experience here is very widespread and also i don't think there is a crescent charles will last forever and certainly not last generation. i personally think of a 5 year time right before a senate a returns a year and we're much to year to see if we changing these insane policies. as a consequence of the road back from your leadership is very good

experience. who you are starting as a source going down, right? because governance creed actually ducks in line to is to implement all the crew and rather stupid restrictions. these have not yet yielded low back yet because it will be function. but, you know, let me go back to john here. i mean, the conflict in ukraine will come to an end, i would predict sickly at the end of this summer. another defeat for ukraine, ukraine doesn't wanna negotiate. so the russians will dictate their terms. but john, nato will still exist and it will want, it's revenge. okay. many people are so focused on this here, which is important obviously. but that's why we're doing this program because i

think the implications of this conflict. if nato isn't d fanged and the in a gemini, american hegemony doesn't come today, we're going to continue this. it will be the 1st ukranian war, john, go ahead. there's absolutely no doubt about that. and of course, as we all know, this current war is itself a response to what happened in 2014, on both sides, the, the, my dad, coo and then the annexation of crimea, and so on. or nato was rearming ukraine, as we all know from 2014 onwards, there was no doubt preparing an attack on the don barza this year and so on and so forth. so yes, all these things continue and were russia to achieve its aims. as i think she probably will this summer as you say, then of course nato will prepare. it's revenge. that's how international relations work. and i, and i think that's all the more certain to happen. because a while i agree with you completely about the americans being in the driving seat

about this or the europeans are not only served while they are servo. but they are ideologically committed to this slip. when people like little or from the lion and so on, who, by the way, when she was appointed president of the european commission in 2019 promised a geopolitical commission, a geopolitical commission. when she was defense minister of germany. before that she promised to make the german army the biggest army in europe. these ideas, and by the way, a promise which i'll have shawls has repeated. germany is rearming and rearming in the sense of wanting to affirm itself ideologically as what europe is today, which is, as i've said many times before, including on this show post national, post christian post historical and so on. and russia is the ideological enemy. russia is by its very existence, a threat to the european ideology, because russia, of course is the opposite of all those things. and if one country can be seen to be

doing the opposite of being post historical and post national and so on, then that is a french to the ideology. because ideology cannot bear a counter ideology to exist. a, i did, i underestimate the role of the europeans, they are in this up to the next. and they want it for the same reasons because they are on the same ideological line. as for example, if i can administration in washington, all right, on that point gentlemen, we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on russia in europe. same with ah, a double alex. she's just gonna be on the left in columbia. nobody but i just bought a level that he thought yeah. real name is logical law school of

college. cool with which? yeah, it is public. if you're to be a number, big enough, feel afraid that fully make you look like to put him on museum bush and below that season. now she did the with it the did the with like i don't, i don't buy a deal. this would not have happened from vito as buyer to push this agenda this war with that because i'm here this week, boston on that i should need to. what about a, a good, be a new will not, but for them this is is what is okay. are you still in the field with, with mm

ah ah ah, welcome back across stock where all things are considered. i'm purely beltran manual, we're discussing russia and europe. ah,

well the worst thing about this program is when you have 3 great gas, you have so little time. so i'm going to keep out of it. vladimir pick up the discussion will be left off. go ahead. well, i think what we see here is what general, like, well known sort of concept of contradictions. there are a lot of contradictions. here is what we have is definitely some kind of european elite, which decided long time ago to align themselves with united states. and then follow them ideologically. they fought for follow them, you know, believe caitlin milligan and so on. but europe is definitely not e, are kind of as one the lead one, the leach against is they pretend to be their business interests. there are people interest. there is like some kind of ideology, so a list of things will enter into conflict. and you know, people with the allies, they need, you know, excess of to rush to rush to the well, the russians of speech or, well talk to a rationals. cultural well do you know they need the roster to be involved in so the fundamental issues like in a climate for example. furthermore,

the very ideology of this kind of post, you know, you know that john referred to this, but it was more than, well is a really contradictory things by itself. because with united states, them driving a eulogy, a certain kind of warranty, they keep one marine and say we have materialized groups in a while. at the same time, they try and fully marginalized russia, giant country with a j, a with people later, they misleading them. they don't allow travelling both ways. and this is so ill, sooner or later, even this ideal of that would realize that the, you cannot do that. this is just, you know, you can it with one hand, promote equality and you know, bring in in all you know, marginalized left are groups. while the say, i'm generalizing the greatest biggest country at least in size. so this soon away that it will start thinking in both it monday european elite, and of course, definitely my european. well i to saw john john laughlin disagree. i disagree to

but i want to get gilbert in here. i'm just going to come to the chase. i mean, europe needs russia far more than russia needs europe. can people understand that gilbert? me, i think they may have nurse in your house because they had, you know, they were very strange. no name is really rivers. they don't have their own equipment anymore. it's staged. the industry domestically and had very little reserves and very little to themselves said the american presence. and that is why they don't mind somebody i issue the remarks about her

seizure. there's some of the actually learning about germany. we are in germany. we arms the potential. if you can be an independent force, whereas now, if you are germany to step out of mine, they say she has no song. therefore, we are many in your relation and your relations will be your and russia. things in relation to the lack of the economic catastrophe. you're in a governess preparing by their 6 package of sanctions as to

results your 1st it would be painful or your to disappear as a consumer driver. so what about the other way around gilbert? what about the other way around is i think would be far worse for europe. europe would suffer far more. let me go to john here. i mean it's e. ok. we have 6 packages of of sanctions here. well, there's one big sanction. russia can employ, turn off the taps in a, in a, in a nanosecond. turn it off. that's their sanction john. yeah, exactly. and you know, 11 does in a sense why it hasn't been deployed so far. but i, i think that the, for what i meant about what was left on the line and german rearmament. i didn't. i certainly don't want to suggest that germany wants to be a hedge, a monic in europe on its own terms, independently of the americans know it is of course as a,

as part of this transatlantic alliance. but what i meant was that she, by saying this, by making the point about the political commission and rearming germany earlier, when she was defense minister, i meant that she clearly was building up in her mind this idea of a confrontation with russia. because that's the only country again switch, there would be any political commission and to go back to what ladyman said in the states. i, i don't think we can, i think we'll be on the point now where we can expect, for instance, german industry or european industry to correct the suicidal mistakes of european policy makers. i never thought i never believed that the not stream to gas pipeline would be, would be suspended, as it has been. because i assumed that that was a natural life and germany. well, it has now been suspended. and don't forget that this is the suspension occurs. we all know this in the context of decor, well, yes, decades now of green policy,

they're talking more and more about reducing c o 2 emissions and using hydrocarbons . this is almost a windfall for them. is this southern russia crisis because they can start to implement that green policies and we must never underestimate the power of ideology . you know, in 1917, you could have said, soviet communism doesn't make any economic sense. but it took 70 years. it took many generations of, of terrible damage inflicted on, on russia and on soviet society before these contradictions. which, of course, are there, you talk about contradictions, vladimir, yes, there, there. they can stay in place, these contradictions for nearly a century. while the economy of the country's concerns suffer unto these contradictions, contradictions don't necessarily collapse very quickly. and again, we see our crisis off the crisis in europe and not just the ukraine crisis, but also cove. it a monetary crisis of 20 o 8. these things are often,

i think we're responding to with decisions, which in fact will lead to fall west crises down the line. but that doesn't stop these decisions from continuing to be taken. reality is not getting through at this point and that's what makes me so as a mistake about the reality is coming through this or to lease a so the price leisure a minute or he is going to one year on 40. so that is double the price was year and it means that every household will pay some very bill when in order for delivery of it will have a little consequence. zip with the sanity as e commerce of western europe as yet, it's just over people to ok, vladimir, i mean, given you know,

the confiscation of russian assets and what not. i mean, i don't, i'm not talking about yachts and stuff like that. i don't care about billionaires, i really don't. but our president has been sent to the west is not a reliable partner. they don't believe i, in the rule of law any more. i mean again, i don't see. i don't have any kind of historical attachment to this relationship here. i'm pragmatic. ok, and i'm not ideological. and so mixing up this ideology and then refuting you the are your basic principles, like the rule of law. i mean, why do you want to parlay with anyone like that, vladimir, you know, what would have to consider is that the time will be to the grade of, was you or was it kind of dominant force at least logically and so on. and he definitely wanted to turn toward europe, but there isn't like elephant in the room. you know, there is east, there is china, there is india. and eventually they'll be. so the alignment and that's what we're

talking about. it's kind of a reality, this message what united states in, in europe is sending that they can seize the essays and so on. it's a dangerous one message, again saying that they can be used one country as a for the, brought to war, injures one china difference. it gets with united states one to accomplish through taiwan through hong kong and so, and so this is where i live in the different ball in the reality such that, ok, you know, you don't want to rush an oil fine, it can go, it can flow eastward and then, you know, as, as gilbert says, you know, europeans will get a lesson and i am actually much more optimistic or examples. and john hammond lived at the dismantled and also doing. and i remember when i was the, in the so just people saw that the soviet union will go on forever. but nevertheless, at that moment and i don't want to go. ready on the soviet history, there were sort of progressive moments isn't dive, but at least you know, in the 7 days it is, it was

a reason and so on the world that the whole thing is just meddling and we did it. you've totally different country. so things are changing. so vladimir, did you like me? right? you're giving me hub, let me go to january. so you, given what you know, the, the, the thought that the soviet union would never come to the end communist will never come to. and so john, we do, we do have hope that the e, u and nato can come to an end. john, well, everything comes to an end, eventually, absolutely in the politics. but i, as i say, i do not think that the end is in sight. or we've, we've seen the nato deciding to expand further in these last weeks. there's still a lot of left life left in the system. a manual macro has just been reelected in france, even though there's very little support for him. the system continues to, to, to prosper. and of course, i'm aware of the rising energy prices, and of course i think the sanctions are suicidal. but i've thought that policy

decisions going back more than 10 years was suicidal. i think wanted to piecing his to his idol, but it's part of the program at divorce. so last week they talked about how they would be a significant reductions in or in the standard of living all over the world because of the climate crisis and, and because of the response to it, that's part of the program. so if people have to pay more for their a fuel oil that suits the green agenda, fine and the green a gender is what dominates europe and america at the moment. so that's why i'm afraid i of course, i wish reality would break in. but what i don't see any splendid region where rapidly running out of time. but all of these people, the davos law ghouls. you know, i'm, they have all these great ideas, but they'll never suffer as a result of their own ideas. all right? as all the time we have jell, my want to thank my gets and parents, province and in st. petersburg. and want to thank our viewers for watching us here . darcy. see you next time? remember grossbach rules?

ah ah ah, my name is frank from a research in philadelphia got in the movement in the age of 1314 or violent tortuous people because we believe that we're in a race. we're here 1st and this is our country being part of that movement. i got your sense of power. when i felt powerless, we got attention when i felt invisible and accepted when i talked to level life after, hey, is an organization that was founded by for a skinhead not see white supremacists in the u. s. in canada and they found each other and they knew that they wanted to help other guys get out was 2 parts to getting out of a violent extremist group. the 1st part is disengagement,

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