clearly and this has lasted for millennium, indian government is extremely mindful about which is why in getting on to speak. and certain action is because of our relationship with the, with the middle east. p did even is long by 1502000 years, learn best in nations. and there has been no, not much reaction there. russia has been russia. china haven't planned any and hasn't come up with a statement, but it's only almost 3 countries. and we have a great relationship relations with you, a salvi, even a dime. so they should also, you know, it has never been a one history. they have tremendous interests, business interest in india. so all of this has to be taken into account. i've seen this problem will solve itself very strong,

mutually and that will be the care of the international guys when he thinks keeping his company here, we're not in to national web back in 30 minutes with the ah . ah

hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i am peter lavelle because of the conflict in ukraine. europe in russia are going there different ways and like a divorce. separation is full of anguish and finger pointing. the biggest loser of all in this, of course, is europe. washington couldn't be more pleased. it's a gemini, is being sealed, ah, cross sucking russia in europe. i'm joined by my guess. i'd real consanzo in london . he is founder of a k consulting and a foreign affairs analyst in brussels. we have lucas bay. he's an independent journalist and in mary cash we crossed to martin j. he's an award winning journalist and commentator. hard gentleman crosswalk, rules and effect. that means you can jump any in time anytime you want. all right, area, let me go to you 1st in london. ah, there is, the conflict continues to drag on in europe at the behest of the u. k. i have to say and washington, um, what is the end game here?

what, what does europe get out of all of this? because all i see is a lot of downside and subservience to washington. and to some degree, london, london, they, they left the european union, but now they're back through the back door of nato. it's amazing. a drill in london . i think that no one is pretty much sure. what is the end game? i mean, the game, i mean most people familiar with the case from 2014 until now. think of the game might be in the worst case scenario, a nuclear war. but people in the west not very much king, to pay attention to what the moscow is saying. they are not very much king to pay attention more. the independent journalist and analysts are saying, i my so most of the conduct the interview process, jeffrey sachs, who would warn the united nations the father escalation of the company might lead

to the potential nuclear exchange between the western russia. but people don't, don't get it. i think that because of the fact that the west hasn't seen war for many years, people somehow don't get it. they seen it on the screen and they associate war with something that is played on the play station or x box. but really and truly my generation don't know what the world war and the consequences a war off. that's why they are ridiculous position of russian fight. and that's why they are really getting these competency on the title, mr. chillies. because this compet could have been prevented very easily in february if the western side would have provided guarantee security guarantees

through russia. but apparently, a russia is not in the position to have the same security rights of other countries in the west. and we have found that out, martin, let me go to you and mirror cash. basically the same question because what is europe getting out of this conflict? as is been just pointed out, could have been easily avoided. okay, going back to the december 17th, the 2 notes, one to the european and 11 to that nato went to the united states here. very clear with the russians wanted, and they didn't take it seriously. so are the europeans, serious now in what is their goal in pursuing this conflict and backing zalinski and backing ukraine? that is losing very badly on the battlefields go headlong. yeah, i think it's pretty obvious for me, it's quite simple. i mean, i was in process for 11 years, i understand the psyche official sort of thing. i think they won't chaos. i think they want a justification, a reason to boost themselves. geopolitically and militarily. and it's been on the

calls for very, very long time. use the word seriously, i'll be taking a russian seriously than we haven't been taking russian seriously for a very, very long time. we look at the timeline, we go back to not only forward agreement, strong enough between the you and russia, there was a lot of good with a lot of positive thinking through media sending really want to be part of the story and the lead time. but, you know, we lost, i think a lot of credibility was last, that 3 is the latest assign it because of kenya. and that was the 1st red flag. i think the 2nd flag came about a decade later, when a number of frontline neighboring countries, russia were offered some sort of association agreement with a network neighborhood including you credit that was another slap in the face. and so the know the nominee just continued to rush of humiliation. and then finally in 2014, you know, to offer ukraine a special association agreement which is just one step away from an exception. i think that blew a fuse. they went over alliance. they were never serious. you will never actually

have a serious about taking russia in as a real partner's real plow because they wanted to impose the had gemini on russia from the very beginning, russia kick back on that bright from the early days. i think this is now the accumulation of the situation we have now, when we talk about an end is i think the you, itself is capitalizing on this conflict to give itself a boost and to justify a new ami, to scrap the voting rules so that the type system that works on the shortest time. you talked about london and doris johnson, i think it was very much a play for distraction for him to actually shift the media camera away from so a lot of domestic policies which are saying and to some extent to so sensing the item, we binds history and in ukraine goes back before to son 14 and you know, there's a, there's a certain bad taste in the mouth of his cheer from school lunches. so the end game

really is to push russia further away, i believe. okay, well i mean that's about martin. that's going to happen. look, that's good. that's going to happen. i mean i, whatever the outcome on the battlefield is, the sanctions will not come down. ok, the sanctions will probably stay in effect forever. so it's a divorce. that's what i'm calling this program. bitter divorce. so when there is a divorce, luke, each side get some assets. what's the asset that you know the europe gets? there's a get the house. there's a keep the dog. i mean, what, what does it get from all of this? have i say, is misery, luke? go ahead. i wonder, indeed, there is in this for europe, strictly, nothing in my brain. certainly nothing. for america is clear in all day of the bridge is doctrine was that russia had to be isolated. and the worst that could happen for the americans was that germany and russia would work together. that was to be avoided at all costs while they're succeeded. they got to sell their liquefied gas, rust seeds in the future, as

a very high price in great profits. so for americans, everything's fine, they will sell their wage as well. but for, you know, nothing. i mean, we lose the source of our energy and we don't sell anything anymore to russia, so it's awful. the situation, the only thing we gain is it is a country which is completely bankrupt. you crying with 40000000 poor people to join euro dash one. thank you. ok, well i, i drill. i mean, again the political leader gary are gaining capital all out of all of this here. but i mean, when you, when francis are giving out food vouchers, you know, we, we could see a rationing of energy during the winter. i mean, i mean, did anybody think i had, because i can tell you the russians have been thinking about this in 2014, after the illegal overthrow of the legal government in, in ukraine. so they've thought this all out here, is anybody thinking it out in europe?

hello, unfortunately not in my opinion. i mean, not. i agree with chuckle edition, very famous for a close school and i miss the rest of the said, the only statesman and in europe is a fine. mr. album who is standing with he's a country is national interest, and he's the most vocal edition in europe currently. also, he's wanting to go to russia what, who's calling out loud calling him at calling the bus. and he's, i'm having a serious mental problems, but i'm not going to follow up. what i'm trying to say is that i will disagree with the previous commentators that europe is getting nothing. what we are getting his poverty. what we are getting is a great research us. the people say that we will have nothing and we

will be happy. this is what we are saying. we have a skyrocketing inflation in united states. we have skyrocketing inflation here in this country in the united kingdom, but everyone is using you create as a substitute, but i will, but this is, this is just a transition. they keep it. it's a, it's a tough transition, but you know, it's a transaction, but it's a transition for home. they keep the power, they keep their riches and everybody else gets poor. that's what this great reset is all about. martin jump in before we go to the break. yeah, and how long can it last, you know, we keep talking about this so called war of attrition. you know, but it's really a, it's tom game, isn't it? you know, and i think the big question now is, how much stamina does european union a new countries have? this is what russia's got in stock. i think we massively miscalculated this. i'm, we're heading towards a brick wall. well, yeah, i'm let me, let me say to you before we go to the break. i mean, as we speak right now, there are divisions in europe. the, the older europe and new europe there be,

you know, as rumsfeld said, but i mean, how can, what's going to be after the conflict the mean? is there still going to be internal contradictions in the european? i mean, how do they move forward here? when they're not even unified, now go ahead, keep going. exactly. i think division, division and more bricks it's, you know, i see there's a, there's a streets that there's really a line right on the middle of the, you countries, you're on the right. you got a number eastern european countries to a much more crow atlanta to assist a more pragmatic above their role and, and a very wary about getting brussels more power, more federalist superpower. and so i think come, i think we can seek to vision more chaos. and how does that translate? that translates of the pose in 2024 to from or fall, right. m p 's getting seats, which in many ways you know, any you, a mandarin will tell you, is the beginning of the end for the european union. so i see on the doom and gloom

for the european union. let me, let me just here, let me get in the loop before we go to the break, reflect on what we just heard from martin. go ahead, look the oh, i think we'll see a lot of finger pointing between the leaders in europe. let's say this went to probably one things get really worse. now, the cost of the leisure of agile and the say she used to you role in more than $2.00 euro, but one which is 3. you wrote, there will be a lot of questioning from the citizens getting really poor by the day with inflation. my cost of energy going, getting higher and cost of food as well. so this is a disaster, but you look where they, who are they going to blame their leaders? are they going to blue blame potent they come and try to blame who didn't, but i think the people will well not follow this. we will realize more in the, in the coming months that we put ourselves, we are so all right, that's what i wanted to hear. we're going to go to

a quick break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on rush in europe. same with ah, i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such order is a conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to great trust, rather than fear a take on various jobs with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with

a since that break away, but donates people's republic. woo has been ranging and don't boss. ukrainian. artillery has been showing civilian towns in mining. villages are more, very lovely to deal with. what i do want with school with a deal about one of the a little above level 3 of little boys will give us bullet one. ah, welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter labelle to remind

you we're discussing russia in europe with okay, let's go back to london and rail if you, if you look at the biden administration's foreign policy, it's an unmitigated disaster just about everywhere you look. however, one are in it, it's kind of a, a backhanded success, i would say is that they have unified europe behind the united states. now i posit, oh, in watching this conflict is that sure america has a sealed, it's a gemini over europe. okay. but it's kind of a pirate victory, isn't it? i mean, a, that part of the content is just going to get poor more isolated, less profit productivity and in misery. i mean, what kind of price is that? it's like $13.00 place pink ribbon. go ahead in london. i think the, you know, by the administration not united states by the administration. sure is so in the

food. because if we look at the polls, whatever pulls, whether this is provided by n, b, c or harvard university, by the, has the lowest possible appreciation from, from the citizens of, among the presidents who are really the country. so he's not very popular, but what he's doing is, i mean he's, he's capable to do this because he's an old man. i mean, he will not be prosecuted for what he's doing. so whatever he's doing he's doing this is mine, that he will not get any consequences for what he's doing and he knows what he's doing. so i would not say the bible ministration is mad. no there, you know the playing according to the plan. i mean, the impoverishment of the american citizens or 1st of all now they will be back to. busy his guns because they will be the militarized. so the average

citizens will not have the same access to the guns. i used to apparently, and also because of the fact that they are because of the inflation and gas prices . they will not be able to live to the american standard as they used to a. 2 2 festival at present binder and his mom administration is acting against his own people and also against the people around the world. and at the same time he's blaming the put in and obviously yeah, they hated credit. i mean, if we continue with your line of argument, i mean this means that they just know better than everyone else. ok. by your electric car. ok. i read that. yeah, that's right. that's what i'm getting out. that's what i'm getting at. exactly. i mean, this is the rule by the experts so that they, they routing by the measures. they see digits and they don't see human beings

behind this digits. they, you know, they are the sacrifice of the emotions, human emotions open a new, they know what they know, what's best for us. remember that the dub dub, those ghouls, they know which message martin. what's really interesting about this conflict is someone pointed out in media is that, you know, most war president get a bump in the polls, but there's no bomb for biden. but the reason is very clear why that isn't the case because it's an elite war. this is not a popular war. this is an elite driven war. martin. yeah, we should come when and you know, i think that the, the previous comment of buying b o, which medicine chuckle is quite run of. but i don't think he's really planning to even stick around to, to receive the long term opprobrium from press or from others who are holding to account for screwing up the economy. and i think ruin relations with european union

make quite a big deal piece of this relationship between the you and biden. and i have to take you to task one is, i don't agree with you. i don't agree that there is this great friendship is great . i'm sure i think that go i my home. no, i'm not saying it's friendship. not at all. okay. i think it's, it's cold. calculated geo politics. keep going. yeah, no, say it's forced to germany. it's america basically leaning on the europeans. they've always done that. you know, ever since i arrived in brussels in 1995, i was shocked. how would the main international institutions and brussels morris for the americans on practically everything? it's embarrassing. i mean, it's really shameful. and i think it's part of that. the identity of the e u, which is losing its role as, as he is losing the popularity falls with the fiasco covered. and the, all these things accumulated together now to cushing, you to actually have his own policies, its own independent on me, you know, so it doesn't take the orders of washington. so i think there's a contradiction going on there, but it's never going to end. well, i mean,

if that division carries on and the european union gets what it wants, which is more power federally speaking, then that's bad news to everybody. and i think there's no, there's no test cases. there's no, there's no experience, no track record is all experimental and you know, when you start making these huge for raisins, international geo politics with surprise, arms to regime like ukraine. you know, you wonder where that's going to and i, i can't, i can't see a rosy picture for anybody. i think we're pushing one shot into the arms of china and to india. i see a new brick sort on bricks. this is a success story. but i think it's only gonna get more successful along with this will consume. yeah, look, it seems to me, i mean, the, this whole effort to isolate russia, isolate russia, but it's not isolated at all. and the more the europeans do this, the more they isolate themselves. i mean, it's so counterproductive for them. luke, in brussels, react, well, if you look at the sake is 84 percent of the world population doesn't follow the

west, doesn't follow your kind of america. so this is the isolation, it's on our side. we are oscillating ourselves. we are, we are making sure that europe will not be leading the world in the future for sure . for sure. you know, america, michael, think they will go china. i stare, of course, but you know it's, it's really going to the pits. and at the same time, the frenzy of support for ukraine is fading out slowly. here for a time, you don't believe that when, when the school, i don't know based on what on decorations experts on tv, but this is fading out. and when winter comes and the difficulty is linked to the energy issue, then the questions will come up and are both the eurocrats and, and european commission brussels. that he's trying to suppress the rule of

unanimity and the european accounts. it shows how, how terrified they are of disagreement. well, there are, they're terrified of democracy in general. ok. they really are. ok, i mean, what was it during breaks ago? we've had too many referenda that's, you know, that, that's anti democratic. it's, it's the, at the essence, it is ok, and it will let me go back, you in london. and now i understand that the polls have initiated a se 7 throne of sanctions against russia. well, it will, why does interest russia sanction europe once and just turn off the energy, go ahead. it could have russia, but russia doesn't have to sanction those people. i mean, they are coming to and so russia is just doing its own policy and rightly so, it's concentrating on the voting away from the west. i mean, it's very rational and i agree with this. i mean, silvio berlusconi just recently an article a. busy another saying that west is isolated,

so from the rest of the world, but that is sending, it's all in gas to to india is sending it an oil and going to china. i mean, who would like to, i mean they will accommodate, i mean, rush hour, people don't understand it. i mean, in the long run, euro will be home and future generations will remember what the euro across the us because it will have a long lasting impact on this continent. we will be irrelevant in the geopolitical role in international affairs. we just, i like to coin it between russia and china. we will be a junior partner. well, not even a servant of the united states, which is a europe

is going to be a junior partner that has to pay of steeply for energy. and if you're going to have your own army, you have to buy american made. ok. i mean, every step of the way, martin, you said in the beginning, the program, the europeans didn't take russia seriously. do you think they take russia seriously now that i, i think i have to, you know, they, they realizing that rushes go a lot more staying power. and also more importantly, i think the point was made earlier. you know that some media is starting to lose his interest in the ukraine or quite quickly. i was in london last week and i had a cheeky lunch time drink with a and a super good national newspaper. a can't tell which one. but he told me that i lost 2 or 3 weeks, the interest of reduce the ukraine's plummeted dramatically. and i, that's also going to have a barrier on, on public perception, on how he's, how receive you. it is, is, is the you taking russia seriously. it will have to a certain point when people around the world who don't really want to get involved in this conflict, the global south african nations, for example,

who miss recently recently met newton, you know, those, those partners who may be forced to choose between them a ross will say, no, we're not gonna play that game. you know, we, we don't have the same problem with, with russia and russia, and in terms of some colon, the, some former colonies in africa. huge group to be very resourceful for countries let money, we've helped them with internal security, for example. so i think come, there's going to be a little division. i only get a home the european union that it starts to look like, not even a, a junior plan, maybe even a non class. i think the 1st casualty in this conflict with the use own diplomatic international department. i think we're going to see the end of this job is fast of ease, so called foreign policy. i think that's can be the 1st victim, you know, under russia always was more comfortable anyway, talking to a member states individually or not, mostly naturally. and i think that's just kind of in hans,

let's just going to increase to the point where no one is talking to the, this ciocca in brussels usa burrell, you know, the one man, so incredibly boring that when he was parliament president, that actually video footage, people nodding off in class on one marnie, apparently he's a polyglot, but i, i hear you can speak gibberish in 7 language. it's really quite amazing. look at we have one minute laugh. finish off the program for us. well, i guess it was said earlier that the situation for europe geopolitical situation is for something. i mean, mr. michael says that we should humiliate russia a position of every on turkey with helping out in this conflict. why don't you doesn't do anything except close doors. i think it's kind of what we're doing to ourselves here in europe and people start to realize in the coming months, because now they still talk again that copy paste from what you're saying,

but it is changing slowly and i hope it does. yeah, well i think i, we, i like game of thrones and one of the great means of game of thrones is winter is coming gentlemen. it will be fun. yeah, i'm, i'm sure it's sergeant schultz will be cheering on, you know, the, the, that the you and it's a prevails with russia. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in london, brussels and america. want to take our viewers for watching us here to see you next time. remember, cross talk with ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we

should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at that point, obviously is too late. trust, rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot most protective foam existence with a to a wrong one. all 3. just don't. a ah, ukraine's army shells the center of doing the city damaging

a residential building near the office of the republics leader. russia foreign minister with the size of poland president for what he calls an attempt to assimilate. ukrainian territory with sergei. la bubbles is saying that european diplomats are not seeking to negotiate with russia and african countries. fact russia opposing a western unit polar wealth, according to one of the architects of most goes foreign policy sen. constantine calls the child who's given an exclusive interview to asi, most african countries share rushing approaches of disagreement with the western.