ah ah ah ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered. i am peter lavelle because of the conflict in ukraine. europe in russia are going there different ways

and like a divorce. separation is full of anguish and finger pointing. the biggest loser of all in this, of course, is europe. washington couldn't be more pleased. it's a gemini, is being sealed, ah, cross sucking russia in europe. i'm joined by my guess. i'd real consanzo in london . he is founder of aka consulting and a foreign affairs analyst in brussels. we have lucre bay, he's an independent journalist and in mara cash we crossed to martin j. he's an award winning journalist and commentator. hard gentleman crosswalk rose in effect. that means you can jump any in time anytime you want. all right, area, let me go to you 1st in london. oh, there's the conflict, continues the dragon in europe at the behest of the u. k. i have to say and washington, um, what is the end game here? what, what does europe get out of all of this? because all i see is

a lot of downside and subservience to washington. and to some degree, london, london, they, they left the european union, but now they're back through the back door of nato. it's amazing. a drill in london . i think that no one is pretty much sure. what is the end game? i mean, the game, i mean most people familiar with the case from 2014 until now. i think it might be in the worst case scenario, a nuclear war. but people in the west not very much king, to pay attention to what the moscow is saying. they are not very much king to pay attention more. the independent journalist and analysts are saying, i my so most of the conducted interview process, jeffrey sachs, who work worn at the united nations. the father escalation of the company might lead to the potential nuclear exchange between the western russia. but people don't,

don't get it. i think that's because of the fact that the west hasn't seen war for many years. people somehow don't get it. they seen it on the screen and they associate war with something that is played on the play station or x box. but really and truly my generation don't know what the world war and the consequences a war off. that's why they are ridiculous position of russian fight. and that's why they are really getting these incompetence beyond the title, mr. chillies. because this compet could have been prevented very easily in february if the western side would have provided guarantee security guarantees through russia. but apparently, a russia is not in the position to have the same security rights of other countries

in the west. and we have found that out, martin, let me go to you and mera cash basically the same question because what is europe getting out of this conflict? as is been just pointed out, could have been easily avoided. okay, going back to the december 17th, the 2 notes, one to the european. i'm on one to the nato, one to the united states here. very clear with the russians wanted, and they didn't take it seriously. so are the europeans, serious now in what is their goal in pursuing this conflict and backing zalinski and backing ukraine? that is losing very badly on the battlefields go headlong. yeah, i think it's pretty obvious for me, it's quite simple. i mean, i was in process for 11 years and i understand the psyche of officials, the thing. i think they won't chaos. i think they want a justification, a reason to boost themselves geopolitically and military. and it's been on the cause for very, very long time. use the word seriously, i'll be taking a russian seriously than we haven't been taking russian seriously for a very,

very long time. we look at the timeline, we go back to not knowing forward agreement, strong enough. so in the you and russia, there was a lot of good with a lot of positive thinking through media center. really want to be part of the story and the lead time. but, you know, we lost, i think a lot of credibility was last, that 3 is the latest, the song it because of kenya. and that was the 1st red flag. i think the 2nd flag came about a decade later, but a number of frontline neighboring countries, russia were offered some sort of association agreement with the net with neighborhood including you crate that was another slap in the face. and so that, you know, the nominee just continued to rush of humiliation. and then finally in 2014, you know, to offer ukraine a special situation agreement, which is just one step away from an exception. i think that blew a fuse. they went over alliance, they were never serious. you will never actually have a serious about taking russia in as a real part as real plow because they wanted to impose the had gemini on russia

from the very beginning, russia kick back on that right from the early days. i think this is now the accumulation of the situation we have now. we talk about an end is i think the you, itself is capitalizing on this conflict to give itself a boost and to justify a new army, to scrap the voting rules so that the type system that works on the shortest time you talk about london. and doris johnson, i think that was very much a play for distraction for him to actually shift the media camera away from so lot of domestic policies which are saying and to some extent to so sensing, but i did, we binds history and in ukraine goes back before 2014 and you know, there's a, there's a certain bad taste in the mouth of his chair from school lunches. so when the end game really is to push russia further away, i believe. ok, well, i mean, that's about martin, that's going to happen. look,

that's going to happen. i mean i, it, whatever the outcome on the battlefield is, the sanctions will not come down. ok, the sanctions will probably stay in effect forever. so it's a divorce. that's what i'm calling this program. bitter divorce. so when there is a divorce, look, each side, get some assets. what's the asset that you know the europe gets? there's a get the house, there's a keep the dog. i mean what, what is it get from all of this? have i see is misery, luke? go ahead. i wonder indeed, there is in this for europe, strictly, nothing in my brain. certainly nothing for america is clear in all day of the bridge is doctrine was that russia had to be isolated and the worst that could happen for the americans was that germany and russia would work together. that was to be avoided at all costs while they're succeeded. they can sell their liquefied gas ross seeds and future as a very high price and great profits. so for americans, everything's fine, they will sell their wages well. but for, you know,

nothing. i mean, we lose the source of our energy and we don't sell anything anymore. to russia, so it's awful. the situation, the only thing we gain is that is a country which is completely bankrupt. you crying with 40000000 poor people to join euro dash one. thank you. ok, well, i drill. i mean, again, the political leader gary are gaining capital all out of all of this here. but i mean, when you, when france they're giving out food vouchers, you know, if you, if we could see a rationing of energy during the winter. i mean, i mean, did anybody think i had, because i can tell you the russians have been thinking about this in 2014, after the legal overthrow of the legal government in, in ukraine. so they've thought this all out here is anybody thinking it out in europe? hello, unfortunately not in my opinion. i agree with

a chuckle edition very famous of a close school and i miss the recently said, the only statesman and europe is a mr arbor who is standing for a he's a country is national interest, and he's the most vocal edition in europe currently. also, he's wanted to go on to raj as well, who is calling out loud calling him. i tried calling the bus and he's i'm having a serious mental problems, but i'm not going to follow that. what i'm trying to say is that i will disagree with the previous commentator that europe is getting nothing. what we are getting his poverty. what we're getting is a great reset us the most people say that we will have nothing and we will be happy. this is what we are saying. we have a skyrocketing inflation in united states. we have skyrocketing inflation here in

this country in the united kingdom, but everyone is using you create as a substitute, but i will. but this is, this is just a transition. they keep it, it's a, it's a tough transition, but you know, it's a transaction, but it's a transition for home. they keep the power, they keep their riches and everybody else gets poor. that's what this great reset is all about. martin jump in before we go to the break. yeah. and how long can it last? you know, we keep talking about this so called war of attrition. you know, but it's really a, it's tom game, isn't it? you know, and i think the big question now is, how much stamina does european union a new countries have versus what rushes got in stock? i think we massively miscalculated this. i, we're heading towards a brick wall. i'm let me, let me say to you before we go to the break. i mean, as we speak right now, there are divisions in europe. the, the oath is rumsfeld said, but i mean, they're still going to be internal, contradict lowered here when they're not even unified naturally. i think division,

division and, and more bricks it's, you know, i see there's a, there's a streets that there's really a line right on the middle of the, you countries, you're on the right. you got a number, eastern european countries to a much more crowded list. and more pragmatic above their role, and a very wary about getting brussels more power, more federalist superpower. and so i think, come, i think we can see to vision more chaos. and how does that translate? that translates opposed to 2024 to far more fall right m p 's getting seats which in many ways you know, any you, a mandarin will tell you is the beginning of the end from the european union. so i see on the doom and gloom for the european union. any adjustment here, let me get in the loop before we go to the break, reflect on what we just heard from martin. go ahead look that. oh, i think we'll see a lot of finger pointing between the leaders in europe. let's say this went to probably one things get really worse. now,

the cost of the leisure of agile and the space used to roll in more than 2 euro. but when it reaches 3 euro, there will be a lot of questioning from the citizens getting really poor by the day, with inflation on my cost of energy going, getting higher and cost of food as well. so this is a disaster, but you look where they, who are they gonna blame their leaders or they got a blue blame, potent they kind of tried to blame, but i think the people will well not follow this. we will realize more in the, in the coming months that we put ourselves, we are so all right there can, it's what i wanted to hear. we're going to go to a quick break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on russian europe. same with ah

the well joe middle alexis to see columbia no less in columbia. nobody but i just bought a leg with italians. real name is logical law school off ridge who else inhaler which it public is the enemy of renominated enough. okay, that makes it nice. for him, easiest bush and below that season. now she did the way april really not was, is it the way it was just like i don't i don't bus and deal this wouldn't have happened. natal vida didn't push this agenda.

this was because she also said what about a it's not a good way to get anyone up at the moment, but it was put it's okay to film to stay with general l. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept where such order is a conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to great trust, rather than fear with take on various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with

a robot must protect its own existence with a mouse another while you while you easy while friend a here. do you have one slide? yes. south. yeah. thrashing a south with a new dock garza or you know, watch them up all me at that. a bull up i picked on the yeah, the little guy from sure. let me just kim's room thoughts. did you say the dealer?

a bill and that's my fault watching in that again, do you watch anybody out? maybe a lot about it more than just financial ah, welcome back. across stock were all things are considered on peter labelle to remind you we're discussing russia in europe with okay, let's go back to london and rail if you, if you look at the biden administration's foreign policy, it's an unmitigated disaster just about everywhere you look. however, one are in it, it's kind of a, a backhanded success, i would say is that they have unified europe behind the united states. now i posit,

oh, in watching this conflict is that sure america has a sealed, it's a gemini over europe. okay. but it's kind of a pirate victory, isn't it? i mean, a, that part of the content is just going to get poor more isolated, less profit productivity and in misery. i mean, what kind of price is that? it's like $13.00 place pink ribbon. go ahead in london. i think the, you know, by the administration not united states, i don't ministration sure is so in the food. because if we look at the polls, whatever pulls, whether this is provided by n, b, c, or harvard university. by them has the lowest possible appreciation from, from the citizens among the presidents who are really the country. so he's not very popular, but what he's doing is, i mean he's,

he's capable to do this because he's an old man. i mean, he will not be prosecuted for what he's doing. so whatever he's doing, he's doing this in mind that he will not get any consequences for what he's doing and he knows what he's doing. so i would not say that the administration is mad. no, they're, you know, playing according to the plan. i mean, the impoverishment of the american citizens or 1st of all now they will be back to. busy guns because they will be the militarized. so the average citizens will not have the same access to the guns. i used to apparently, and also because of the fact that they are because of the inflation and gas prices . they will not be able to live to the american standard as they used to a. 2 2 festival at present binder and his ministration is acting against his

own people and also against the people around the world. and at the same time he's blaming the put in and obviously yeah, they hated credit. i mean, if we continue with your line of argument, i mean this means that they just know better than everyone else. ok. by your electric car. ok. i read that. yeah, that's right. that's what i'm getting out. that's what i'm getting at. exactly. i mean, this is the by the experts so that they, they routing by the measures. they see digits and they don't see human beings behind this digits. they, you know, they are the sacrifice of the emotions, human emotions open a new, they know what they know, what's best for us. remember that the dub dub, those ghouls, they know which mentioned, you know, martin, what's really interesting about this conflict is i've, someone pointed out in media is that, you know, most war president get a bump in the polls, but there's no bum for biden. but the reason is very clear why that isn't the case

because it's an elite war. this is not a popular war. this is an elite driven war. martin. yeah. which she can win. and you know, i think that the, the previous comment of some buying being oh, which my little chuckle is quite run of them. i don't think he's really planning to even stick around to, to receive the long term opprobrium from press or from others who are holding to account for screwing up the economy. and i think ruin relations with the or can you make quite a big deal piece of this relationship between the you and biden, and i have to take you to task one is, i don't agree with you. i don't agree that there is this great friendship is great . she i think that go i my home. no, i'm not saying it's friendship, not at all. okay. i think it's, it's cold, calculated geo politics. keep going, you know, say it's forced to germany. it's america. basically leaning on the europeans, they've always done that, you know, ever since i arrived in brussels in 1995,

i was, was shocked. i went to main international institutions in brussels, morris full of the americans on practically everything. it's embarrassing. i mean, it's really shameful, and i think it's part of the identity of the e u, which is losing its role as, as he is losing the popularity falls with the fiasco covered. and the, all these things accumulated together now to pushing you to actually have his own policies, its own independent on the you know, so it doesn't take the orders of washington. so i think there's a contradiction going on there, but it's never going to end. well, i mean, if that division carries on and the european union gets what it wants, which is more power federally speaking, then that's bad news to everybody. and i think there's no, there's no test cases. there's no, there's no experience, no track record his own experimental. and you know, when you start making these huge forays, it's ins, national geo politics with, with surprise, arms to a regime like ukraine. you know, you wonder where that's going to and i, i can't, can't i see

a rosy picture for anybody? i think we're pushing washer into the arms china, into india. i see a new bricks is already then this is a success story, but i think it's only gonna get more successful along with this will consume. yeah, look, i think it seems to me, i mean the, this whole effort to isolate russia, isolate russia, but it's not isolated at all. and the more the europeans do this, the more they isolate themselves. i mean, it's so counterproductive for them. luke in brussels, react well, if you look at the sake is 84 percent of the world population doesn't follow the west doesn't follow your kind of america. so this is the isolation. it's on our side. we are oscillating ourselves. we are, we are making sure that europe will not be leading the world in the future for sure . for sure. you know, america, michael, think they will go china there of course. but you know, it's, it's really going to the pits. and at the same time,

the frenzy of support for your crane is fading out slowly. here, you know, for a time, you don't believe that when, when the school, i don't know, based on what on explorations of experts on tv. but this is fading out. and when winter comes and the difficulty is linked to the energy issue, then the questions will come up and are both the euro crap and european commission brussels that he's trying to suppress the rule of unanimity in the european accounts. it shows how, how terrified they are of disagreement. well, they're, they're, they're terrified of democracy in general. ok. they really are. ok, i mean, what was it during breaks ago? we've had too many referenda that's, you know, that, that's anti democratic. it's, it's the, at the essence, it is ok, and it will let me go back, you in london. and now i understand that the polls have initiated a st 7th round of sanctions against russia. well, it will,

why does interest russia sanction europe once and just turn off the energy, go ahead. it could have russia, but russia doesn't have to sanction those people. i mean, they are coming to and so russia is just doing its own policy and rightly so is concentrating on people take away from the west. i mean, it's very rational and i agree with this. i mean a, an article a another saying that west is isolating it. so from the rest of the world, right, that is sending, it's all in gas to india is sending it an oil and going to china. i mean, who would like to, i mean they will accommodate, i mean, rush is a great, our people don't understand it. i mean, in the long run, euro will be home and future generations will remember what the euro

across the us because it will have a long lasting impact on this continent. we will be irrelevant in the geopolitical role in international affairs. we just, i like to coin it between russia and china. we will be a junior partner, not even a servant of the united states, which is a, you know, losing head, your mom a hey, let me go to europe is going to be a junior partner that has to pay of steeply for energy. and if you're going to have your own army, you have to buy american made. ok. i mean, every step of the way, martin, you said in the beginning, the program, the europeans didn't take russia seriously. do you think they take russia seriously now that i, i think i have to, you know, they, they realizing that rushes go a lot more staying power. and also more importantly, i think the point was made earlier. you know that some media is starting to lose

his interest in the ukraine will quite quickly. i was in london last week and i had a cheeky lunch time drink with edison, good national newspaper accountants, which one. but he told me within last 2 or 3 weeks, the interest of reduce, the ukraine's plummeted dramatically. and i think that's also going to have a barrier on, on public perception, on how res, though, receive you. it is, is, is the you taking russia seriously? it will have to a certain point when people around the world who don't really want to get involved in this conflict, the global south african nations, for example, who missed recently recently met newton, you know, those, those partners who may be forced to choose between them a ross will say, no, we're not gonna play that game. you know, we, we don't have the same problem with, with russia and russia, and in terms of some colon, the, some former colonies in africa. huge group to be very resourceful for countries let money. we've helped them with internal security, for example. so i think come, there's going to be a little to vision. i only got

a home the european union that it starts to look like, not even a, a junior plan, maybe even a non class. i think the 1st casualty in this conflict with the use own diplomatic international department. i think we're going to see the end of this job is fast of ease, so called foreign policy. i think that's can be the 1st victim, you know, under russia always was more comfortable anyway, talking to a member states individually, a mostly naturally. and i think that's just kind of in hans, let's just going to increase to the point where no one is talking to the, this ciocca in brussels usa burrell, you know, the one man, so incredibly boring that when he was parliament president, that actually video footage, people nodding off in college on one marnie. apparently he's a polyglot, but i, i hear you can speak gibberish in 7 language. it's really quite amazing. look at we have one minute laugh. finish off the program for us. well, i guess it was said earlier that some of the situation for europe geopolitical

situation is for us. i think mr. michael says that we should humiliate russia. i prefer position of every i'm in turkey with helping out in this conflict. why do you have to do anything except close doors? i think it's kind of what we're doing to ourselves here in europe and people own start to realize in the coming months, because now it still took. i can't that copy paste from what you're saying, but it is changing slowly and i hope it does. yeah, well i think i will. i like game of thrones and one of the great means of game of thrones is winter is coming gentlemen. it will be fun. yeah, i'm, i'm sure it's sergeant schultz will be sharing on, you know, the, the, that the e u i'm, it's a prevails with russia. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in london, brussels and america. want to thank our viewers for watching us here to see you

next time. remember, cross talk with ah, with oh, when i was showing wrong, when i just don't know. i mean you have to see how this thing becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground.

ah, ukraine's army shells the spencer up, don't you? i'd fatigue damaging a residential building to the office that the republic's leader and that pro on social media off the mainstream news article showed around them ukrainian residents with a swastika on his arm despite western denial of a neo nazi presence in the country. and african countries back russia were in opposing to a western unipolar world according to one of the architects of moscow foreign policy since a constant in pose a child who's been given an exclusive interview to our say. most african countries share rushing approaches of disagreement.