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ah hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle. just what exactly is the with policy approach on ukraine should give negotiate a piece or should it fight on indefinitely? and what is nato's end the game? what does winning mean? meanwhile, despite sanctions brush is creating political facts on the ground. i cross sucking a crane. i'm joined by my guess, the voice of knowledge in washington. he's a blogger and columnists in like jackson, we have daniel mcadams, is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity and in brussels. we have piri manual tom and he is

a lecture at leo. the university gentleman cossack rose in effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i would appreciate i'm calling this program, walk back and you'll know why after a dis, quote, i'm going to go to daniel 1st. this is anthony blink in the u. s. secretary of state, the people in government of ukraine led by president zalinski must decide on their own the issue of pos, that the possibility of territorial concessions my my day know what a change change in tone and tenor and direction your thoughts while they're saying the quiet part out loud, i mean, it's hard to imagine either they're stupid or even maybe a little bit of both. but it's hard to imagine they didn't understand this back then at the beginning, you know, in february 24th. if the us intelligence community weren't able to inform our diplomats that this was going to happen this way, then we're spending $20.00 to $30000000000.00 a year on intelligence in vain. and we're wasting our money. but you know, peter, this is what always happens in washington. these people live in

a bubble. they listen to each other, they get high on their own supply constantly. and they believe the lives that they told each other, any voices like yours or mine or your other guests that are on the show are absolutely drowned out. even people like colonel mcgregor, who was right from the beginning, always completely drowned out. they don't want to hear a counter narrative because this isn't about foreign policy diplomacy. it's about building a narrative and maintaining it at all costs until it disintegrates, which it started to do peter a couple of weeks ago with mainstream media. and then they say, oh gosh, no one saw this coming new bunch of the same thing because, you know, we, i think it was in the core, over a course of 10 days, maybe or something like 10 days, where we had the head of nato saying, ukraine to demand crimea back within 10 days to say, well, you know about negotiate. well, that's up to a kid. no one's going to pressure kiev, you're after it's been clients. they are 8 years of nato. i mean, you can't talk out of both sides, your mouth at the same time. go ahead and watch. well, obviously,

nato thinks they can and they do every day. i would agree with daniel that this was entirely predictable from day one, but i would, i would strike is like leave, contrary and tone here and say that there don't korea, we're reading too much into their segments because what they're saying is not necessarily to, you know, they want ukraine to make concessions. what they're saying is the ukraine has the blank track to do whatever once and the us and nato will back it and conditionally as they have been for the past 3 months. obviously the solution to this has always been from day one to negotiate in good faith by the government and you have as incapable of this. this is a fact, this is an established fact. and so saying, so now, you know, after it's way too late, isn't going to change anything. but i keep hearing the same, you know, blinking statement, you know, it's up to ukrainian. he's always been saying it's up to you free and that's the thing it, everybody believes that ukraine has agency, but this is

a government that's literally being funded, like underwritten by the us taxpayer, just like the regime in afghanistan, the collapse that minus 2 weeks. so we're, you know, did his whole notion that ukraine is the one in the driver's seat making decisions . and the usaa nate are there to back them up is 1st of all, completely upside down. and secondly, it doesn't really correspond to reality on the ground. so if is it washington who wants to make concessions if, if they are, they need to say, so i don't think they're saying so. yeah. well, peer manual, i think the thing is a politically an idea logically they can say, can make concessions after all of the investment. you know, i don't live in the us, but what is it like $7.00 a gallon right now? know, baby food and you know, and they, they, they actually found them so painted themselves into a corner. and by saying, you know, it's up to the ukraine. it's up to is lensky. well, that's one way to say, well, it's their faults to, they're looking,

they're playing the blame game, already. go ahead and brussels sweater ah, senior, because he's a proxy wall between a nato member states and russia with ukraine as a front states are of a push ukraine. to were to weaken rashaw during this conflict, but doing so earn more and more. are they your v year are losing the economic butter on the, on the one side, on the military butter because your ukrainian army, or will they receive the look of weapons or from the initial member states? or they cannot a different property. there are territory and or we can expect to russia to whoa to take over the wound of dumb boss on. maybe bull them will, mo, it weight, the more russia we're rice, probably mistakes,

and the negotiation will be much more difficult. that's right. yeah, i agree. i mean, the longer this goes on, let me go back to daniel lee jackson here. i mean, it will maybe learn in the future, but there was a point of inflection. it is stem bull. and apparently, with the media is a reporting. as ed morris johnson told the zelinski, i know you're not, you're not getting negotiate here. and ever since then again, this is a ledge. we don't have a, we need to have a call cooperated. but, but daniel, at that point, the, i think the russian side said, well, what's the point in negotiating with you people? first of all, you didn't implement minns one or 2. why should we believe you? now? i think this is one of the best big misconceptions in western media. i mean, what do you think rushes in particularly interested in living, listening to what zalinski has to say about anything at this point, daniel? well, the funny thing is we had for years of the democrats in the u. s. and a lot of european leaders believing that somehow trump was putin's agent. but literally, if putin was the greatest spy master in history,

he could not have had agents as fantastic as he has right now. and let's just look at the economic front because oil has skyrocketed, obviously, mostly because of sanctions, but also because of supply price problems and domestic us energy policy. oil has skyrocketed and russia is selling on the world market at a 30 percent discount. and people are lapping it up. i think china has purchased a 57 percent increase in russian oil. literally russia last month made $20000000000.00 in revenue from oil sales that month alone. they are literally financing and funding their war on the back of us sanctions. how is that for running agents in the west? it's just unbelievable in their bush. and i mean, that's one of the most incredible things that i've seen in my lifetime. how the europeans, particularly of under cut themselves. i mean, it was chancellor shields which i referred to as sergeant shields on this program.

he said, well, sanctions are not supposed to impact us negatively as if he was surprised. ok, that's why we call me shar sergeant schultz. go ahead and washington, well, i mean the europeans, the european union, i'm making a distinction between it and the continent have committed economic suicide. and they're in the process of committing political suicide as well as the american empire. on the other hand, has managed a consolidated rule over over europe in a couple of satellites in the pacific, but has literally antagonized the rest of the world. they keep talking about international community and you don't hear that much anymore because it's obvious to everybody that quote, the international community is basically the u. s. canada nato, and like australia and south korea and japan. i mean that's, that's it, that's, that's all folks. so in every respect, strategic, tactical, operational, political, diplomatic, economic, this, this conflict has been a total disaster for the west. and obviously the ukrainians are the ones you know, doing most of the dying here. and then you have the dutch prime minister of

a country as a, you know, one, a war and in centuries, going, oh yes, we are in water with russia and russia must lewis. and so we must give you creating all the weapons. like mark, do you have any idea what you're talking about? of course not because there's no accountability, there's no consequences there. so believe me insulated, of the politicians are there people are suffering what the politicians don't care because what are you good for them out that never worked. yeah. but and also in the boyish, again, stay with you here. sanctions hasn't changed, rushes, quote unquote, behavior. ok. i mean is so you can throw in all these weapons you want, but it doesn't change the outcome here. and then you have the problem of where these weapons go. and there's a lot of pockets being filled in care with the big story before this re, per democrats. i'm sorry for republicans just how corrupt ukraine was upset, not story, doesn't count here. a manual peer manual in brussels. i mean, the outside of the ukrainian, i mean, europe is the biggest loser in all of this. not russia. exactly. oh,

because or a european union member states in part to could of france and germany missed a huge opportunity to decide on their own future. and or winner, the americans didn't mind to negotiate in europe and security arrangements or re russia, or because of nato enlargement. they wanted to keep the gate open to new need to a nation's a fuel truck or france and germany. we shop supposed to be opposed to this enlargement anyway. didn't do a good niss. it good ation region promised russia and not to in her, not to were an archer nato, to ukraine. we could have sign a bilateral 3 letter arch. would you, franco? german russian didn't do it because, or they are a consider over europe and project as a sub product to the euro. atlantis or project undo vcs,

led by new to united states to contain, or russia, but to or so, or european union is more and more divided because you can ever, you have 2 sides now. of france, germany, italy, seed are not, is, governments are, but earlier they like you or a, or a negotiated outcome of his conflict, but o'bar to come to his and poor, and they would like to ukraine to win the conflict, which is totally impossible. and for example, we are gonna, we are going to kiss ern mccall shores or the i, he but they are not gonna negotiate anything. to be efficient of issue do pressure on ukraine to accept it in any negotiation on, on, on territory to accept a, him or no ne tool for ukraine meat, which means sir, also probably no e u h r, because or h, would it be

a poisoned or a gift to have for you to, to take ukraine because it will divide member state, you will never capacity to take or ukraine. and so they will be more divided by the 2 main need communication and the other lose else because economically the switch or a white sheet, obviously obviously there's been no, no adults in the room when it came to this decision making here. gentlemen, we have to go to a hard break and ask about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team. ah ah, a

with or ah, need to come to the russians state total narrative, san diego slam scheme, div mckindoe's house up for a group in $55.00 when. okay, so mine is $25.00 must be the one else with we will ban in the european union. the kremlin, ca, yep, machine. the state aunt rush up to date and split r t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all band to on you to send me to school with question,

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ah welcome back across stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing ukraine. ah okay. when asked all 3 of my questions when get the same questionnaire? i'll go to daniel 1st. daniel and me and we, there's this takeo, should ukraine get in negotiation, who should back it? who should be pushing it, washington in london. the you all of this. but for me, this is all kind of small potatoes because, again, and in the reason why we got here is that nobody is listening to what the russians are saying. and the issue is, the issue is not change. particularly since december 17th, when russia and its diplomatic notes or ultimatum whoever, however, you want to define it about russia's own security relations with europe. and that

has, this thing is not going to be over over until that is addressed. and again, the west refuses to get involved in that conversation. that's what this is all about. not about, you know, zalinski the oscars and por ukrainians are starving russia. it's not what this is about. it's about security arrangements in europe, and russia won't stop until it gets what it wants, because it doesn't have good faith interlocutors. daniel. in that you're absolutely right peter, and in that case, why would russia stop at all? i mean, we're seeing back stablished on the ground far beyond, on that we're seeing the integration into the russian economics or economy in political structures of parts of ukraine far beyond don das. so the idea that somehow putin would negotiate away these facts on the grounds at this point, and someone pointed out, maybe as you peter, is turnbull. i think that was the turning point. because the on that there's no point. we already see the effects of russia turning its back on dawn best so to

speak, in 2014. and it made him very unpopular for a while in the region. so at this point, if he gives away the territorial gains that have been won by the russian army through the benefit of the people in the region, we've seen people on the ground celebrating and being happy, mario poets, cetera, et cetera. then that is a huge political liability profusion at this point. why would he take such a huge downside with literally 0 upside? what a pat on the head from blink him. that's going to make him happy. you know, a story. i don't think so. there's no incentive for them to not keep going as far as they want. no voice the same question. the daniel was absolutely right here. i mean, why should they give up what they already have in exchange for? what? ok, i mean i did, none of these people have any understanding of history or geo politics. go ahead. well, contrary to what the current leadership in the united states may believe,

this is not 1990 slob. yeah. things completely different, even though the us exactly the same way is not nick. you know, the russian army is not taken territory to give it back for russia. this is not a war of choice. as the bi dentist administration try to frame it in a remarkable display of projection, it's an existential struggle. and if, if it wasn't on february 24th, it became so in the subsequent days, throughout this whole obsession with army ukraine, making it a proxy war between russia and west. russia calls it a special needs reparation for it for right, for moscow, this is a police action. but for the west it's the, it's world war 3. what they don't dare actually fight it themselves. and so it, he has literally become an existential struggle. and so i don't think russia is going to give it, give up on it because they're aware of mistakes. i think what's, what we need and what we're not getting is some kind of understanding in the west

that this is so and they don't have an off ramp. they haven't thought this through to begin with. they have no big tree conditions. they have no end game plan. their end game plan was basically all will be mean to russia and it will, it will come grovelling or it's nice and surrender. well, that hasn't worked and never will work. what's next? and they don't have the answer to that. peer menu al, speaking as a european these are the talk about bringing in ukraine into, into the e u. i find it really quite fanciful, particularly right now, what, what ukraine mean or, i mean, it's a failed state right now. what did they want to induct? and why, and you as a european, are you interested in paying for that? go ahead. well, in the european union, his story, or each country wanted to be advice center or for

a european union voice on security. or like the france at the beginning, the project was in but meter because there was a west germany in one side to spain each already and or, or shore own benjamin netherlands of been off. and then germany or began the said center of the you with enlargement of for you were to the east. and then now poland and budget countries, they were like old. sure not to be or a new at the territory, but to enough to ukraine, also to with a buffer zones against a russia. but problem ease or if when you working as a cheese now if his internal structure, you create a new mixed road you because your main of money is spent on agriculture come on. what is see, but don't show on that funds and is unsustainable. and she'll be really a rivalry between media and member seem to done one ukraine because it's which

sick or but wanted to, but east and eastern europeans would like to put all of them. and you know, you on ukraine show is not going to work a tour. you know, daniel, if i go back back to you here, i've long believe now ever since, since is them bull is that the russians will take, take the time table in the terms of the end of the conflict. and we just have to wait for that. the aqua, i find it really foolish on the part of western analysts. you know, russia separately defeated him well that, that presupposes that you knew what rushes plans were, but nobody does. ok. and if you listen to the defense ministry briefings, which are really dry and they never let anything out, they never tell you what they're up to. they just give you the number of items destroyed. it's very numerically driven, but they never tell you what their strategy. but everybody on cnn knows what that strategy is. that's why they look like, fools every single night. go ahead, daniel. it's the vietnam thing all over again. you know, and you have people like william ark and i suppose it defense expert writing

a piece of news week. i think yesterday saying that, oh yeah. russia is taken over several minutes and a but it doesn't mean anything. they're losing any way you have. you have the penguins all, but what's interesting is the thing to shift in european opinion. and there was an interesting recent survey done by the european council on foreign relations. and they asked 3 questions. are you in favor of peace justice? are you on the fence piece or the people who want this to end immediately, regardless of what it costs justice or people who want to keep going and on the fence or people that sort of want both while the plurality, by a long shot 33 percent want to have peace and that's the way things are going. i think that might be something behind the, the visit on thursday of the leaders of france, italy and germany, to keep their surprise visit, showing solidarity with ukraine. i wonder what really was said there. i wonder if this is more of a saw a swan song than a new opening because we know that germany says, hey,

we're going to send you some great tanks and then there's, okay, this is great, but where is the ammo? well that's going to come next year. do happen over and over again. hey, have some planes, they don't work, but here you can have them in your calling appraisal, and we need some new ones. we gave our crappy ones to ukraine, you know, it's a money laundering scheme and it's not working. and i think they're starting to sense this. yeah, it's your so right. it's a money laundering operation. this is all, this is an a plus and plus all the goodwill from the nato country. they gave them junk that they didn't want anymore. okay, that's absolutely true. that's absolutely true here. your boy should. where does it go from here? because if you look at the headlines, it's dropped, at least in the united states, where people, it's not the story that it was a few weeks ago a couple months ago here. and there seems to be a real quandary here. and plus, you know, a lot of people forget zalinski if he's kind of given that, you know, the let down. sorry, you know, but we know we did our best and all that. then the entire government will collapse because he can't stick around being a defeated leader. they don't understand they,

they pushed him up so much as a pop star. and now he has a long way to fall. the boy ship, he's got the world's biggest sense of entitlement. i have not seen anything like this, not even in the 1900 ninety's with us proxies. but, you know, you had biden himself the other day go going, well, you know, he didn't listen to me what i told him, and i've heard it compared to kennedy's famous closet denunciation of the vietnamese president the m right before d m, that overthrown the crew. when we all know how that went for south vietnam afterwards, and kennedy himself later, the fact that the u. s. media and political establishment started talking up january 6 recently as opposed to speaking with ukraine. that's right. that was a dead giveaway to me that the ukraine narrative is busted. it's done. you know, that that particular ship has sailed the war last call, whatever you will. the fact that the, the stablish is desperately flailing for

a new narrative, is showing that they're not actually winning. and i mean, not, not the, anybody who's actually observing events on the grounds. seriously, believe that at any point. but, you know, all this talk that, you know, that whole organ piece, you know, pay no attention is ever that there was a mean already, you know, pay no attention to possibly pay no attention to care. so pay no attention to, you know, you are here and you know, that always goes all the way down to pay no attention to. yeah, i mean it's, you know, what else has to happen for people to understand that the war on the ground is last for the west and it's proxies. it's, it's, it was last on february 24th. it was last on march 24th. and it will be lost on june 24th of july 24th, and so on and so forth. i don't think the french and germans are going to make a difference though, because they're the ones to try to negotiate the end of my don. and we know how that ended, they're the ones who negotiated means we know how that ended. they're simply in agreement and capable at this point, and nobody's taking them serious appearing menu. well, i mean it, the,

the biggest mistake i mean it's difficult to say that the biggest mistake, but if they, if the west had said we must have peace in ukraine and not instead of saying they said we must win. that was their biggest mistake because they can't go ahead in brussels. yes. much. that's right. or the what best western governments because or of a p or are we the new western member states to shrink more differently, but you're atlantis governments. i would say they think misty can promote their uni paula world to put to west or values yuru or govern roofs or rosemary, daughter at the top at the top of the ward. but the kind of because are russia by intervening in ukraine is promoting a mercy, put our ward. and by doing so, are you creating we'd never be part of an aide to which would be very difficult to,

to be part of you as well. and means it's a retreat for you. atlantic space or nature, and you and her emergence of murky port richey. but it's very difficult for western governments to accept this fact because it will mean ok, you lose all of their illusions on the deed. so much papa gone. nope, i got down on the sewer company rapidly out of time, but you're absolutely right. no. neil liberalism, in the hubris of, of this ruling class, it will all die in ukraine the way they continue. and unfortunately, lot of ukrainians will continue dying. unfortunately, gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in washington, brussels, and lake jackson. and i want to thank my viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross huffmans. ah

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a with an r t crew reports from the front line of the 7 has done yet. chemical plant in the regards to republic where foreign mercenaries find themselves trapped alongside thousands of ukrainian soldiers and big oil companies blamed by the u. s. president for inaction push back against his call to ramp up production, saying that he himself had previously encouraged a shift from fossil fuel. our goods, our rules, that's the message from gas, from ceo at the st. petersburg international economic form says the western dominated economic system is undergoing drastic changes and the us dollar is weakening.