oh, says continue to target ukrainian military sites in response ah, in this message released by rushes defense ministry shows was being called the bombing of a ukrainian military base in the country south. wal scot's place besides had been used to launch drone strikes against russian lead forces. the defense ministry also say some of it's not the missile strikes have destroyed 8 ukrainian tanks and 3 artillery units. many thanks for joining us. hey, on all t international, as always you can find plenty more stories on discussion on our website, auto dot com ah,

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ah ah hello and welcome to cross hawk where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . just what exactly is the west policy approach on ukraine should give, negotiate a piece, or should it fight on indefinitely? and what is nato's end the game? what does winning mean? meanwhile, despite sanctions brush is creating political facts on the ground. with cross sucking a crane. i'm joined by my guess, the voice of knowledge in washington. he's a blogger and column this in like jackson. we have daniel mcadams. he's the executive director of the ron pol, institute for peace and prosperity, and in brussels. we have piri manual tom and he is a lecture at leo, the university. hi, joan cossack,

rules and effect. that means you can jump anytime you want. and i would appreciate it. i'm calling this program, walk back and you'll know why after a dis, quote, i'm going to go to daniel 1st. this is anthony blink in the u. s. secretary of state, the people and government of ukraine led by president zalinski must decide on their own. the issue of pos, that the possibility of territorial concessions my my day know what a change a change in tone and tenor and direction your thoughts? well, the thing the quiet part out loud. i mean, it's hard to imagine either they're stupid or evil, maybe a little bit of both, but it's hard to imagine they didn't understand this back then at the beginning, you know, in february 24th. if the us intelligence community weren't able to inform our diplomats that this was going to happen this way, then we're spending $20.00 to $30000000000.00 a year on intelligence in vain. and we're wasting our money. but you know, peter, this is what always happens in washington. these people live in a bubble. they listen to each other. they get high on their own supply constantly.

and they believe the lives that they told each other, any voices like yours or mine or your other guests that are on the show are absolutely drowned out. even people like colonel mcgregor, who was right from the beginning, always completely drowned out. they don't want to hear a counter narrative because this isn't about foreign policy diplomacy. it's about building a narrative and maintaining it at all costs until it disintegrates, which it started to do peter a couple of weeks ago with mainstream media. and then they say, oh gosh, no one saw this coming new bunch of the same thing because, you know, we, i think it was in the core, over a course of 10 days, maybe or something like 10 days, where we had the head of nato saying, ukraine to demand crimea back within 10 days to say, well, you know about negotiate. well, that's up to a kid. no one's going to pressure or after it's been a client, they pray, here's of nato. i mean, you can't talk out of both sides, your mouth at the same time. go ahead and watch. well, obviously, nato things they can and they do every day. i would agree with daniel that this was

entirely predictable from day one, but i would, i would strike is likely contrary and tone here and say that there don't. we're reading too much into their segments because what they're saying is not necessarily to, you know, they want ukraine to make concessions. what they're saying is that ukraine has the blank track to do whatever once and the us and nato will back it on conditionally as they have been for the past 3 months. obviously the solution to this has always been from day one to negotiate in good faith by the government and he is incapable of this. this is a fact, this is an established fact. and so saying, so now you know, after it's way too late, isn't going to change anything. but i keep hearing the same, you know, blinking statement. you know, it's up to you, cranium. he's always been saying it's up to you free and that's the thing it, everybody believes that ukraine has agency, but this is a government that's literally being funded, like underwritten by the us taxpayer,

just like the regime in afghanistan. this collapse that minus 2 weeks. so we're, you know, did his whole notion that ukraine is the one in the driver's seat making decisions . and the u. s. a. nate, are there to back them up is 1st of all, completely upside down. and secondly, it doesn't really correspond to reality on the ground. so if is it washington who wants to make concessions? if, if they are, they need to say, so i don't think they're saying so. yeah. appear manual i big. the thing is they politically an idea logically they can say, can make concessions after all of the investment. you know, i don't live in the us, but what is it like $7.00 a gallon right now? no, baby food and, you know, and they, they, they actually found them so painted themselves into a corner. and by saying, you know, it's up to the ukraine. it's up to is lensky. well, that's one way to say, well, it's their faults to, they're looking,

they're playing the blame game already. go ahead in brussels. yes. where ah, senior, because he's a proxy wall or between a natal member states and russia with ukraine as a front state or of a push ukraine to were to weaken rashaw during this conflict. but doing so earn more and more early they, your v year are losing the economic butter on the west side, on the military butter because are ukrainian army or will they receive the look of weapons or from the initial member states? or they cannot a different property, their territory, and, or we can expect to russia to low, to take over the wound of dumb boss on maybe bull, the mo, mo, a weight, the more russia we rise, probably mistakes on the negotiation will be much more difficult. that's right.

yeah, i agree. i mean, the longer this goes on, let me go back to daniel late jackson here. i mean, we'll maybe learn in the future, but there was a point of inflection. it is stem bull. and apparently with the media is a reporting as ed morris johnson told the zalinski i, i know you're not, you're not going to negotiate here. and ever since then again, this is a lead to, we don't have a we, we need to have a call cooperated. but, but daniel, at that point, the, i think the russian side said, well, what's the point in negotiating with you people? first of all, you didn't implement minsk one or 2. why should we believe you? now? i think this is one of the best big misconceptions in western media. me. what do you think rushes in particularly interested in living, listening to what zelinski to say about anything at this point daniel? well, the funny thing is we had for years of the democrats in the u. s. and a lot of european leaders believing that somehow trump was putin's agent. but literally, if putting was the greatest spy master in history, he could not have had agents as fantastic as he has right now. and let's just look

at the economic front because oil has skyrocketed, obviously, mostly because of sanctions, but also because of supply price problems and domestic us energy policy. oil has skyrocketed in russia is selling on the world market at a 30 percent discount. and people are lapping it up. i think china has purchased a 67 percent increase in russian oil. literally russia last month made $20000000000.00 in revenue from oil sell that month alone. they are literally financing and funding their war on the back of us sanctions. how is that for running agents in the west? it's just unbelievable in their bush. and i mean, that's one of the most incredible things that i've seen in my lifetime. how the europeans, particularly of under cut themselves. i mean, it was chancellor shields which i referred to as sergeant shields on this program. he said, well, sanctions are not supposed to impact us negatively as if he was surprised. ok,

that's why we call me sharp. sergeant schultz go ahead and washington, well, i mean the europeans, the european union, i'm making a distinction between them. the continent have committed economic suicide and they are in the process of committing political suicide as well as the the american empire, on the other hand, has managed to consolidate rule over over europe in a couple of satellites in the pacific, but has literally antagonized the rest of the world, they keep talking about international community. if you don't hear that much anymore, because it's obvious to everybody that what the international community is basically the u. s. canada nato, and like australia and south korea and japan. i mean that's, that's it. that's, that's all folks. so in every respect, strategic, tactical, operational, political, diplomatic, economic, this, this conflict has been a total disaster for the west. and obviously the ukrainians are the ones you know, doing most of the dying here. and then you have the dutch prime minister of

a country as a, you know, one, a war and in centuries, going, oh yes, we are in water with russia and russia must lewis. and so we must give you creating all the weapons. like more. do you have any idea what you're talking about? of course not because there's no accountability, there's no consequences. their completely insulated, of the politicians are there people are suffering, but the politicians don't care because what i get a good bought them out. that never worked. yeah. but, and also in the boyish, again, stay with you here. sanctions hasn't changed. russia's quote unquote behavior. ok, i mean, it's, so you can throw in all these weapons so you want, but it doesn't change the outcome here. and then you have the problem of where these weapons go, and there's a lot of pockets being filled in kid with the big story before this re, per democrats. i'm sorry for republicans just how corrupt ukraine was offset. not story, doesn't count here. a manual peer, many well, i'm brussels. i me, the, be outside of the craniums. i mean, europe is the biggest loser in all of this. not russia. exactly. oh,

because her european union member sits in part to could a france and germany missed a huge opportunity to decide on their own future and her winner. the americans didn't match to negotiate in europe and security arrangements or re russia, or because of nato enlargement. they wanted to keep the gate open to new nato nations, a future of france and germany with sharp supposed to be opposed to this enlargement anyway. didn't do a goodness it go station, we didn't promise, stir russia and not to in her not to were an archer nato, to ukraine. we could have sign a b latera, 3 latter rocks, which you franco. german russian didn't do it because are they are a considerable european project as a sub product of the euro. atlantis or project undo vcs, led by new to on united states to contain, or russia,

but or so. or european union is more and more divided because you can ever, you have 2 sides. now. france, germany, italy, seed are taught is, governments are, but are they like you or a, or a negotiated outcome of his conflict, but o'bar to countries and poor, and they would like to ukraine to win the conflict which is totally impossible on, for example, we are gonna we are going to kiss ern mccall shores or the i he but the and gonna negotiate anything to be efficient of issue do pressure on ukraine to accept it in any negotiation on, on, on territory to accept a or in or no. ne, toefl for ukraine. meat, which means sir, also probably in no e, you aver, because or would it be a poisoned,

a dead gift to of 4 e. you were to, to take ukraine because each will divide member state. you does a neighbor capacity to take her ukraine and so they will be more divided, but they do may need communication. and the other knows else because economic curry, this switch, or a white sheet, obviously obviously there has been no a no adults in the room when it came to this decision making here. gentlemen, we have to go to a hard breaking out about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with archie. ah, ah, ah, when i was showing wrong when i just don't know any world is yet to see how it is,

dean becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah. so welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter level to remind you we're discussing ukraine. ah. okay. when asked all 3 my questions. i guess the the same question here. go to daniel 1st daniel, me you, there's this takeo, should ukraine getting negotiation. who should back it? who should be pushing at washington, london: the you all of us. but for me, this is all kind of small potatoes because, again,

and in the reason why we got here is that nobody is listening to what the russians are saying. and the issue is, the issue is not change. particularly since december 17th, when russia and its diplomatic notes or ultimatum whoever however, you want to define it about rush his own security relations with europe. and that has this thing is not going to be over over until that is addressed. and again, the west refuses to get involved in that conversation. that's what this is all about. not about, you know, zalinski at the oscars and poor ukrainians, or star being russia. it's not what this is about. it's about security arrangements in europe, and russia won't stop until it gets what it wants, because it doesn't have good faith interlocutors. daniel. in that you're absolutely right peter, in, in that case, why would russia stop at all? i mean, we're seeing facts that was on the ground far beyond, on that we're seeing the integration into russian economics or economy and

political structures of parts of ukraine far beyond don das. so the idea that somehow putin would negotiate away these facts on the grounds at this point, and someone pointed out, maybe as you peter, is turnbull. i think that was the turning point because the on that there is no point, we already see the effects of russia turning its back on dawn best so to speak in 2014. and it made him very unpopular for a while in the region. so at this point, if he gives away the territorial gains that have been won by the russian army, to the benefit of the people in the region, we've seen people on the ground celebrating and being happy and merrier, pull, et cetera, et cetera. then that is a huge political liability for fusion at this point. why would he take such a huge downside with literally 0 upside? what a pat on the head from blinking that's going to make him happy. you know,

a story. i don't think so. there's no incentive for them to not keep going as far as they want. nobody should the same question. the daniel was absolutely right here . i mean, why should they give up what they already have in exchange for? what? ok, i mean, i did, none of these people have any understanding of history or geo politics. go ahead. well, contrary to what the current leadership in the united states may believe, this is not 1990 years. sloppy things are completely different, even though the us exactly the same way. point is not nick. you know, the russian army is not taking territory to give it back for russia. this is not a war of choice. as the bi dentist administration try to frame it in a remarkable display of projection. it's an existential struggle. and if, if it wasn't on february 24th, it came so in the subsequent days, throughout this whole obsession with army ukraine, making it a proxy war between russia and west. russia calls it a special needs reparation for it for right, for moscow, this is

a police action. but for the west it's the, it's world war 3, but they don't dare actually fight it themselves. and so he has literally become an extension struggle. and so i don't think russia is going to give it up, give up on it because they're aware of mistakes. i think what's, what we need and what we're not getting is some kind of understanding in the west that this is so and they don't have an off ramp. they haven't thought this through to begin with. they have no big tree conditions. they have no end game plan. their end game plan was basically all will be mean to russia and it will, it will come grovelling on its knees and surrender. well, that hasn't worked and never will work. what's next? and they don't have the answer to that. peer menu al, speaking as a european these the talk about bringing in ukraine into, into the e u. i find it really quite fanciful, particularly right now, what, what ukraine mean?

i mean, it's a failed state right now. what did they want to induct and why? and you is a european, are you interested in paying for that? go ahead. what in the european union history or each country wanted to be advice center or for a european union for its own security? or like the france at the beginning, the project was in but meter because there was a west germany in one side to spain. each hardy and her or shore own benjamin netherlands of been off. and then germany, or because of the said center of the you with enlargement offer you were to were east. and then now poland and do budget countries. they were like old. sure not to be or you know, at the territory, but to enough to ukraine, also to, with a buffer zones against a russia. but problem ease or if when you working as a cheese now if his internal structure,

ukraine makes road you because are made of money is spent on agriculture come on. what is see, but don't show on that funds and it's own sustainable. and she'll be really a rivalry between media and, and mendocino done one ukraine because it would suck over on it to the east and the eastern europeans would act to put all of them. and you know, you on ukraine show is not going to work a tour. you know, daniel, if i go back back to you here, i've long believe now ever since, since is them bull is that the russians will take, take the time table in the terms of the end of the conflict. and we just have to wait for that. the aqua, i find it really foolish on the part of western analysts. you know, russia separately defeated him well that, that presupposes that you knew what rushes plans were, but nobody does. ok. and if you listen to the defense ministry briefings,

which are really dry and they never let anything out, they never tell you what they're up to. they just give you the number of items destroyed. it's very numerically driven, but they never tell you what their strategy. but everybody on cnn knows what that strategy is. that's why they look like, fools every single night. go ahead, daniel. it's the vietnam thing all over again. you know, and you have people like william argon, i suppose it defense expert writing a piece of news week. i think yesterday saying that, oh yeah, russia is taking over some road and ask and, but it doesn't mean anything or losing any way you have. you have the fingers all. but what's interesting is the thing to shift in european opinion. and there was an interesting recent survey done by the european council on foreign relations, and they asked 3 questions. are you in favor of peace justice? are you on the fence piece or the people who want this to end immediately, regardless of what it costs, just as people who want to keep going and on the fence are people that sort of want both while the plurality, by a long shot 33 percent want to have peace and that's the way things are going. i

think that might be something behind the, the visit on thursday of the leaders of france, italy and germany, to keep their surprise visit, showing solidarity with ukraine. i wonder what really was said there. i wonder if this is more of a saw a swan song than a new opening because we know that germany says, hey, we're going to send you some great tanks and then there's, okay, this is great, but where is the ammo? well, that's going to come next year. do happen over and over again. hey, have some planes they don't work, but here can help them in calling a brace and we need some new ones. we gave our crappy ones to ukraine, you know, it's a money laundering scheme and it's not working. and i think they're starting to sense this. yeah, it's your so right. it's a money laundering operation. this is all, this is an a plus and plus all the goodwill from the nato country. they gave them junk that they didn't want to any more. okay, that's absolutely true. that's absolutely true here. no bush. where does it go from here? because if you look at the headlines, it's dropped,

at least in the united states, where people, it's not the story that it was a few weeks ago a couple months ago here. and there seems to be a real quandary here. and plus, you know, a lot of people forget the landscape. he's kind of given that, you know, the, the let down, sorry, but we know we did our best and all that. then the entire government will collapse because he can't stick around being a defeated leader. they don't understand they, they pushed him up so much as a pop star. and now he has a long way to fall. the boy ship. he's got the world's biggest sense of entitlement . i have not seen anything like this, not even in the 1900 ninety's with us proxies, but you know, you had biden himself the other day. go going, well, you know, he didn't listen to me what i told him, and i've heard it compared to kennedy's famous closet denunciation of the vietnamese president the m, right before d m got overthrown a cool when we all know how that went for south vietnam afterwards, and kennedy himself later,

the fact that the u. s. media and political establishment started talking up january 6 recently as opposed to speaking with ukraine. that's right. that was a dead giveaway to me that the ukraine narrative is busted. it's done. you know that that particular ship has sailed, the war is last call, whatever you will. the fact that the, the establishment is desperately flailing for a new narrative, is showing that there are not actually winning. and i mean, not, not the, anybody who's actually observing events on the ground, seriously, believe that at any point. but, you know, all this talk that, you know, that whole organ piece, you know, pay no attention is ever that there was a mean already, you know, pay no attention if possible, pay no attention to care. so pay no attention to, you know, you are here and you know, that always goes all the way down to pay no attention to. yes, i mean it's, you know, what else has to happen for people to understand that the war on the ground is last for the west and it's proxies. it's, it's,

it was last on february 24th. it was last on march 24th. and it will be lost on june 24th of july 24th, and so on and so forth. i don't think the french and germans are going to make a difference though, because they're the ones to try to negotiate the end of my don. and we know how that ended, they're the ones who negotiated means we know how that ended. they're simply in agreement and capable at this point, and nobody's taking them serious appearing menu. well, i mean it, the, the biggest mistake i mean it's difficult to say that the biggest mistake, but if they, if the west had said we must have peace in ukraine and not instead of saying they said we must win. that was their biggest mistake because they can't go ahead in brussels. yes. much. that's right. or the what best western governments because or a p or are we the new western member states a shrink more differently, but you're atlantis governments. i would say they think misty can promote their uni

paula world to put to western her values 0 or govern roofs or rose may daughter get up at the top of the ward. but the kind of because are russia by intervening in ukraine is promoting a mercy, put our ward. and by doing so, are you crazy? we never be part of an aide to which would be very difficult to, to be part of you as well. and means you say retreat for you, atlantic space or nature and you and her emergence of mercy port richey. but it's very difficult for western governments to accept this fact because it will mean ac . you lose all of their illusions on the did so much for by gun? nope, a gun down for an on the so a company rapidly out of time, but you, you're absolutely right. no, a neo liberalism in the hubris of, of this ruling class. it will all die in ukraine the way they continue,

and unfortunately lot of ukrainians will continue dying. unfortunately, gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guests in washington, brussels, and lake jackson. and i want to thank my viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time? remember? crossover? ah ah, you with a, you're the one that you have

a question here with ah, ah ah,

a with that you for that? ah, the westfield a global inflation storm by its short sighted policy sounds according to vladimir putin comments that the international economic form for the people i think is, oh, i mean, we all hear about this so called, who tins? inflation, who's listening to such nonsense. everyone understands the real reason that huge sums of money were printed and this money was used to purchase goods and services outside the western countries on the global markets. down for public officials say some ukrainian. so just to round that the as well as