ah, ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic, development only personally, i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk ah mm hm. mm hm. hello, welcome to was a part of a conflict in your career,

may still be dominating international airways, but it's not the only and perhaps not the worst calamity and the world today. tr lanka is currently going through the most dire economic and political prices in its history. and their theories that more nations may go down the same turbulent path as the global economy continues to pull her. how contagious it is. well to discuss that i'm now joined from colombo by i. how long ago are political economist and senior lecture at the university of georgina? dr. do them are. it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for having me. now, not fully done with the coven pandemic of, but there is another malays to be spreading around the world. i'm talking about economic, social instability and your country. sure lanka seems to be among the 1st ones affected on a scale of $1.00 to $10.00. how bad it is, this is by far the worst economic and political crisis kind spacing since its

independence in $1000.00 jake on supplies of all kinds of essential goods from our petrol and be so cooking gas medicines and even food stamp find short supply. and the price of many of these goods have doubled or tripled, making it on affordable for people. so by far, it's the worst economic crisis. and this has led to a political crisis of lead to mercy in the country. there are widespread calls. now for the recognition of the president himself and his brother, the prime minister and the entire cabin resigned, we've had a new government, but it continues to be unstable there being purchased out on the streets. and this is perhaps the most formidable protested scene. since 1953,

a few years after, ah ha, independence. when children go into a balance of payment or crisis, and it tries to raise the price of rights from $0.25 and to confirm the sense of measure that crisis was so severe that our cabinet had to meet on a british warship and the prime minister resign so it's very similar to that. and so these are um, very difficult and rory kinds in sri lanka and certainly things are going to change . you cannot go in the direction that be happening. don't secondary them are you mentioned before that there is a very peculiar way in which authoritarianism and, and you liberalism, combined to push, rely on the financial and economically. could you elaborate on that? you know why the current crisis is partly caused by the global hike since your

prices and commodity prices. and secondly, the pandemic kind of disruption has been dependent on tourism has led to a fall in foreign reserves. the real issue is much longer. she was the 1st country in south asia to liberalize its economy back in 1977. when the giant was in a government at that time took 3 away from the number line to the orbit of the united states. and with the support of my struggle organizations, structural adjustment, such as on the new liberal talk with tribulation and financial liberalization, leading us to become more dependent on international markets. but those reforms could not be sustained because of as long civil war that was started in 1983 lasting 26 years. so it is really with the end of the civil war in

2009. that what i have characterized as a 2nd wave of some when the mind, the raj, bucks the government at the time, which had won the war with a very authoritarian militarized hold, decided to take your liberal policies forward. so they've been to borrow extensively in the international capital markets in particular and invested in infrastructure and tourism. but there are no returns from those investments. and it is dos foreign debt in the form of sovereign warnings over the last 13 years that has led to a debt crisis. and now this full blown economic crisis in now, as he mentioned many sherlock and putting the blame for the current crisis on the roger proxy class. but even the multitude of factors that you just mentioned,

do you think it's fair to make them the only ones responsible and perhaps a secondary question to that given how many roger packs of family members, they are empowered. do you think? and they, and it's never too babe well for them because they shouldn't be. they could be oblivious to how the public would react to so many family members being empowered. why do you think the president found the need a point or has so many of his relatives in the positions of power? in the way it is, the arrogance of power. they have been in power from 2005 to 2015. and after they won the war, they taught the invincible. and they decided to bring more and more family members in. and they taught with a combination of single, a buddhist nationalism and militarization. and this kind of financial is ation that they could be in power for a while. now. more recently,

when they again came back to power in 2019 i soon after that the pen to make it as and it was obvious to many of us that we were headed towards the common crisis. but they did very little to address it. in fact, they continue with the same policies and then try to just keep down a political cronies happy and, and that is why they so much and go against them. even though this is a historic crisis. this is going to be long drawn out. and even if a government changes is going to be very difficult, after this crisis, they did very little and completely mismanaged the economy. so much of the public anger at the moment at least, is against them. it's very interesting to contrast what's happening in your lanka to you in the recent elections in the philippines where, you know, not just one, but 2 political dynasties remained or return to power. and many experts attribute that to the weakness of political parties in the philippines and

which gives political families political clans, more authority, more power, a sort of may become a sort of political brands. i wonder, what's the dynamic insure lanka? how does it work there? do what we have seen over the last 56 years is actually a lot of change in political parties. the though what's called the grand old party here, the united national party to home, the british handed over power in 1948, has been reduced to just one seat in parliament in the last elections. and in fact, that leader of the party who even lost his seat, has been appointed as prime minister a month ago by this very diligent miced president of roger boxes in turn. 4 years ago launched the our own party, a so p p. breaking away from another age old pocky,

the silica freedom. ok. this constant changes going on in the, in the particle around. i see that as linked to the economic unraveling. that has also been wrong in the making. of course, the focus on very recent events, but economically and politically, she longer has been going through change. but all of those have been coming into a major crisis that has erupted. but i also think is going to be a long drawn out crisis, where it's going to take years for us to gain economic and political stability. and in the years ahead, you might see other nationals forces into the realm. so it can be also a very dangerous period going forward. now, as a dramatic us, this situation is in ashville anchor. we are also observing similar trends in many other countries around the world. the prices of food depresses and fuel arising pretty much everywhere,

even in the developed countries. i wonder how much that has the state of the global economy influence what's going on in the country wants the share of the globalized influence on the domestic affairs there. historically, you know, an island nation like us, we have always been influenced by historical developments. you know, that the great depression of the 19 thirty's, and i'm actually characterizing the economic crisis in sri lanka now as another depression. and the great depression led to policies in sri lanka, of free education, free health care, food subsidies. and to this day, some of that survived. i teach in a university all university since we like our state universities and we have free education up to university. and so the great depression, even though it was a global phenomena, ended up creating a welfare state in sri lanka. similarly, the crisis of the 1970s. um, you would know that, you know, global oil prices quadrupled with or pick oil shock in the 19 seventy's. a global

downturn and sri lanka was one of the 1st countries may be off the chileya under the off the military coup and fascist rule of canal sheet that turn to no liberal reforms. so similarly, i see the current crisis in sri lanka as the continuation of the global financial crisis of 2008 is really, hasn't been resolved. we have only been trying to financial eyes and, and bubble up high economy. and, and what i see as perhaps the crisis of neoliberalism hitting sri lanka 1st. so i don't think the usual solution is going to work. they're going to have to drastically change direction of the art tomorrow. but this crisis and dr. consider them, or whenever we talk about the crisis in the global economy, it's always hard to understand where to start and where to finish. some i,

economists and blame it on the very nature of capitalism. others, i explain it more narrowly by the consequences of the common pandemic and the disruption in production change. wonder, where do you stand on that as far as the global economic mass is concerned, what are the antecedents there? you know, as i mentioned, the 1930 is the 1970s. ok. capitalism periodically goes through these crises because it are on some the profit motive. and so this is for me, very much a capitalist crisis. but you're also in this latest phase of capitalism called your liberalism. we have seen repeated crises. so we've seen crisis in latin america in the 1980s. that station crises of 199798. even the crisis in russia in the 1990 s. and then of course,

it hit the western world until it hit the western world. we were told that it's only crony capitalism that leads to crises. but they didn't talk about when we capitalism, that became the global financial crisis of 2008. so it's not about trone capitalism . it is something inherent to capitalism. and this is what i think we're seeing happen now. so this and so that the crises have become more deeper and more frequent. now, but this time i see it as actually a crisis of northern burleson itself, that to be able to continue with accumulation through dispossession. ref, finance, capital has been able to continue to accumulate at the cost of working people all around the world. and the 3rd world in particular has been really hit hard by it affects people's daily lives as guessing in sri lanka, and even in sri lanka, since the 19 seventy's inequality has been greatly rising. and part of the anger

out on the street is also reflecting those dynamics of neoliberalism. oh, don't secondary come on. we have to take a short break now, but we will be back in just a few moments. ah, we got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy. even foundation, let it be an arms race is on often very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk with

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously, is to create trust rather than a various job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with a

welcome back to wells at barclay. the actual on your gum, are political economists in senior lecture at the university of john a mar before the break. we were discussing the origins of the long process as well as of the global economic crisis. and while it's natural, anything logical to blame it on the sitting government. i wonder if there any internationally accepted economic dogmas that gary is governments feel obliged to comply with, but that simply don't work anymore is the global economy or national economies still function according to the laws and the rules that i taught and the department of economics no i think we have seen that, but it's economics departments in my country all in much of the world, they are unable to either predict or provide viable solutions and race forward to

the economic crises that yeah, seen. in fact, they believe that markets clear that markets themselves will solve these problems. and that ideology is also behind the policies that are recommended and put forward and forced given on many good low countries by the international monetary fund. and the world bank and no liberal institutions. so, but they seem to have a little disregard for the real abject human suffering that is caused by those policies. so this is a global phenomena. i think st lanka is one of the 1st countries in this wave to even default on its international deck to go through a city a crisis. the street in elite i'm looking for the i am asked to solve this problem

. and sheila, guys in a desperate situation now, you know, you have to go around to the big bowl to any country that will give us credit lines . oh, i need to ship that. give us a credit. like i said, schultz daughter, i'm sorry for interrupting it's one thing when you turn to your neighbors who may or may not give you some support in the times of need, but if i'm not mistaken, so long to when to the i'm a 16 times over the last 12 or 13 years, you've been boring, a huge amount of money at the very significant interest rate than from what i've seen, even the opposition at this point of time. well, they're calling for the resignation of the current government. they're still insisting on pretty much repeating the same economic policy. so is that going to bring a different result? i don't think so. and, and, and not in the medium term for sure. because since 1965,

as you mentioned young has gone to 69 with agreements more recently after the war in 2009, we went into one and then in 2016, after change of gone, every government has used the same approach and going to the i'm if only allowed us to borrow more and it high interest rate. so pushing us further into debt so it only bubbles us up for a few years. ready and, and me collapse into the debt trap. so that's obviously not the solution. but this has become the global approach to solve the problems of debt ridden countries around the world. and it's not just re lanka this time. i think a number of other countries are likely to default our get into a similar kind of problem already. the can see pakistan is, is in a crisis and their policy economy in terms of south asia is on shaky ground. so

the need an alternate different direction and during these kinds of global crises, and it can be very painful in terms of how that change happens. there's also a change in the global order. i mentioned the great depression of the 19 per piece . and out of that of course now does the rise of fascism a 2nd. ready role and huge changes before the global order changed to a kind of the keynesian approach of social welfare states. again, the 19 seventy's, a time of many proxy was around the world. and in a change of consolidation of m. a muley bro project with finance capital rising up . so this might again be a time. and the worry is that these kinds of a great crisis as the, as the great part of condom is giovanni our region has mentioned lead to great unraveling,

which can also be have serious political and economic consequences. and that can also lead to huge amount of destruction. and it's a worry for all of us, i think, who wanted peaceful work. speaking about potential alternatives for sure landscape . i'm not mistaken. india has extended almost $3000000000.00 to your country, in credit lines and various other instruments. since january of this year. that's a huge amount of money. more than the united states or china have offered you could potentially be in. they'll turn it has to be, i'm approved. well, i think india has itself is saying that it has reached its limits of providing a credit line. so she like a needs to get credit from various actors, but also needs to create its own system. in the short term, we have no option but be, need to prioritize our info. it's been been living well beyond our needs and been

importing luxury items. and even today that is continuing in that you know, small ways we need to prioritize our system. we need to create a public distribution system where the state takes responsibility during such a severe crisis. but even now i think that the market should address it and the i m f. recommendations also for the market to fix this problem. now some analysts think they're going to die and that would bring about international credibility that she can again, gwen borrow in the international markets. i think that's far fetched. they can see global interest rates rising. and as you basically appetite for global capital to coming to a country like she like, i'm particularly after it has defaulted. so i'm seeing sri lanka sort of muddle along, chug along into a long drawn out a crisis. but that clarity is in there with id to our policy makers. ultimately,

she lumpkins have to make a decision on what kind of an economy the want to build. and do we want to continue to be dependent on certain international actors? or do we want to chalk pot? and i also want to mention it maybe later presumptuous as me, but i think russia provides a good example of being able to when it's out of the i'm a financing at the time when it was really, really desperate. after the collapse of the soviet union, we had huge that we were paying huge interest rates, but over time we've been able to become more self sufficient. which leads me to my next question. and one of the features of the current crisis is they shortage or flat. foreign exchange currencies does last, you are unable to import and i'm talking not only about luxury items that you mentioned, but also madison. i know the trunk has been experiencing difficulties without electricity as painful as this experience may be. don't you think that's also

a good argument for self sufficiency, actually building up industry enough economy to, to live with in your own means? absolutely. in fact, i, last year a colleague of mine and i published a paper in the international quantity of asian studies that they were looking at the long $960.00 is in many asian countries. the emphasis was on self sufficiency. we were headed into that kind of an experiment in the $970.00 bill before we switch to a sort of a neo liberal direction. and so sufficiency, industrial policy, these are became bad tons of bad concepts for a new ultra. but i think you need to think about self sufficiency and you need to think about our own sort of agrarian question and how they want to become self sufficient food. in particular, you're going to or food crisis and to story start on manufacturing. so that has to be a long term direction. now, of course, feel like also has its limitations. you mentioned russia in 1009,

thousands even militia during the 1997 crisis did not go from i'm as agreement. but i think malaysia, russia have much more natural resources than a country like sri lanka. we don't have wild roses for example. so b, b v are dependent in the international a global economy. but we have to set it on our own terms. and we really have to think about our own social structure, the importance of equality and freedom within our country. be to be able to chat that i think i'm to let you chose our visionary leaders. maybe in a different age, 19 forties, fifties and sixties, talk in that direction. but now we have, what i would characterize as a comparable elite will become very much more dependent on the west. and don't think in those terms now are changing gears a little bit. i want to bring some of my professional experience i, in the past i covered a lot of a spring uprisings. and when i look at what's happening on the speech in felucca

right now, i feel it is feeling of deja. hello. people taking to the streets, demanding more dignity, demanding more freedom, demanding more accountability from their governments. and when i saw that happening in cairo in damascus, in tripling a, in have a good feeling to live and people on those streets always thought that you know, things could possibly get worse. and we have history unfortunately proved that the, that it could get worse. now i know the tra lanka had a very painful experience of civil strife. you went through they kits long, civil war, aren't you afraid of its return? because it all starts with the rallies and some i think some of the rallies intro longer have already been militarized. aren't you afraid of disintegrating into something far more precarious and dangerous? yeah, she lanka, you know, vince was to the wrong name in the northeast in, in,

in jeff now that i peach that was the, the stronghold off the tamil tigers in the civil war started. but never also to lodge insurrections in the south by single you. so we have that history. but at the same time, the current protests, even though on, on one day when peaceful protest is attacked by government boons, it didn't turn violent in reprisals. for the most part, it has been peaceful and don't have any kind of movement. taking it in a violent direction, but my worry is that right now, even these forecasts have been much more inclusive of minorities and so on. but if there isn't a solution provided, if i'm, if conditionality is lead to further suffering, maybe 2 years down the line, there's a danger that another, a nationalist,

fascist type of ridging could try to capture people's grievances. and that could again tear apart our society. so not maybe immediately, but if you don't address this problems now, she has a history of the pendulum swinging politically from one direction to the other. so if you really have to use this moment very carefully to put sri lanka on a sustainable park, well 1st to address the food crisis and immediate needs of the people and then the unemployment loss of likelihood so that people feel not begin to have confidence in the economy and for all of that, you need a new leadership. you need a new leadership from the ground up and it's going to be, it's gonna take time in greece last almost a decade with its economic crisis. i think ever something like 7 by mr. changes had happened in that decade in the 20 tense. the might be also looking at something like that and she lacked over the next few years. well, those are going to have them or the mentorship has to be. i am only pioneers in

contracting the crises. i certainly hope that we will also be a little bit versed in finding the solution. wish you all the best to you and your people. thank you for having me and thank you for your can send the box. and thank you for watching hope to hear again or was apart with mm with

a, with the head of the british army issues, a rallying cry to troops telling them they need to be ready to face russia on the battlefield. u. s. urges opec and other countries to increase oil and gas production in an attempt to tackle the search in energy prices. as the commission plot candidate status for ukraine in some countries, long on the fringes of the membership c at purely as a political move against russia. it's a matter of interest. ukraine is super, you're old enough to be against russia today, especially once in order to separate ukraine from russia's patronage and expand nato.