a oh ah ton of welcome to worlds apart for decades, if not centuries, russian strategies have mused about the development of northern and eastern frontier as one of the key drivers for russia's economic development than security . which however, requires access the world's best technology, with the west cutting almost all ties with russia over ukraine. will those dreams

once again, have to be put on ice? well, to discuss that, i'm now enjoined by alex c, chicken cough rushes minister for the development of the forest and the arctic minister. it's great to talk to thank you very much for time. good afternoon. now it's interesting that in the russian language, unlike for example, in english, we can use the word north in plural as north, rather than let's say, singular. and it's indeed an enormous territory in terms of mileage in terms of cultural geological, ethnic, industrial, economic, political diversity. but i wonder how you can manage it or even develop that territory from your office in moscow, which is, you know, many, many of thousands of kilometers away. i give you 2 facts about russia, norse in the far east, russia east norse. we are 2 3rd permafrost, and the russia east asia were 3 quarters in asia. so we cover 18 regions of

rational federation, the cause of one being woman's, which speaks a lot about our mandate, the fathers to on the go, which is 9 times zones away. so i spend quite a bit of time in their place. now, there is a stereotype. governance in russia is extremely centralized, but if one looks deeply into the administrative history of fresh, it tends to be the remote regions suffer from the shortage of governance rather than excessive due to you know, remove the lack of logistics infrastructure. sometimes the resentment of the, of the local population. you've been minister for less than 2 years. what would you say are some of the biggest challenges that you have to face will ahead quite the long preparatory period. the chief executive officer is development funds. so i would go and almost 9 years of very close, deep involvement in for eastern and northern aspects. and the key fact i would like

to say is we have a total new breed of governors. very important. those people who had governors in 2013, when i was 1st told by mister, through the us to join him, a seal of the fun was completely different. but the people who then what we have now. so i think as we call the fisher from the head, but here i think the development is really, it's very important when the heads of the government, young, technocratic fashion, that the transparent but the people who build the respective teams, who in turn really spread this, this is values, this is about the value and attitude, but you know, it's a common problem in the russian regions. when you have a very progressive technocratic people and they come to those remote regions and they do not always establish good connection with the locals. is that a problem? well, i will then see is that leadership is very important, this not only government leadership, it's also leadership in terms of their bring yours. who are the leaders of actual

projects? you know, one of the hardest regions is a basic idea is where she dies. every 3rd citizen has a active criminal record. so of 1000000 people, you have 350000 who either have been to jail or was sentenced. but they have one of the most tech center, ben years, the guy from chicago who came back from london of the 8 years in private take, which was very actively investing in real estate. i got a culture beer production and so forth and so forth. so when they see cases like this, i do really believe that 1st you have a little island. so i lets you have another archipelago and then you have an actual continent of efficiency of progress. you mentioned the word archipelago and one of the associations with the russian easton, the russian ne, alexander soldier needs and through the archipelago that you just mentioned about

the buckeye one series having active criminal record batteries have anything to do with that legacy. yes. the 1st, originally it was that there are $32.00 bridges resources for 400 years. first, 1st, then gold, silver, oil, and gas. then it was frontier military frontier to defend. and then this was a big reason. now it's the most dynamic. there are 3 for economy and we call they turn to the east, the pilots to the east. i was our pilot to the east happens. so they will confuse you via lores because to transport stuff to the east to really need to develop the northern europe. so this is the one hormone thought that, that connects the far east, and the russian arctic in dicola, russia is the ability to produce stuff in woman region or an hmo, or in the real and transported to asia by, by single endurance. now you mentioned the center of the change in attitude towards those regions from exploitative to your well, even in the big prison camp at

a certain point, will they ever become places where people actually like to leave rather than being sand for because of some materials stimulus or because of some political necessity, do you believe that the development can trump harsh climates in order to turn those territories into real homes? well, it is, you know, climate when people say the climate. the reason why they don't like to live somewhere is not being honest. london doesn't have a perfect climate, neither do we actually like displaces. so i was, this is a very powerful place is really a lot of energy in every single the most remote is another inter called fuel is a very powerful place. so the key thing is the reason to be why people come there and i think this is what is important is we really reignite this feeling of something historical happening. huge projects been done inspiration, inspiration. exactly. this is about the motions of the reason why people live their

lives the way they do. so i think the 1st is offering a perfect reason for people building this new reality for us, right? in asia, russia and asia and being able to visit of course, the last 3 years were who had to be challenging. but before, before the and they make, especially in the south region, so the 1st half hour, financially, it was low for people every month to go out to korea, to japan, to china. it's like, for people most concerned that this works. so this really gives you a feeling of belonging to asia, which is good. i heard you say before that the russians who more than any other people know, love and enjoy the norton as much as i want to review. not so recent soviet history for as many examples are pretty heartless and quite exploitative attitude towards that land. do you think the russians have had the opportunity to jo town for what

they done for what their pet assessors done to these parts of the world? well, this work has just begin and they will say a lot remains to be done. we're really trying to clean up the arctic and we are responsible for half the total arctic russian federation. and this is a common goal that knows that and see what is being developed in the very ecologically responsible way. number one nuclear power, which is used for ice breakers and which is also used to supply key investment projects, is the cleanest powerful then we plan the next generation of vessel storage. on l n g. and in general, our last produces the biggest amounts of gas. yeah, mo is a huge source of gas which is much cleaner. fuel than cool. so i was in this respect, arctic does contribute to global ecological balance. but of course, so to practice is from soviet times when people really didn't pay attention to

cleaning up. we have the a sentence in russia called the unlimited supply, which is in the russian to bring something, but we've never had the take out that. so what exactly what that was brought there, big barrels of stuff like a lot of math though, so for amazon, so for the stuff is still there, but i'm better optimistic about people, especially youth now being conscious about that. and we have volunteers who go 4 months clean up every region and they personally hold the pretty much every month, a gathering of full northern governors and their govern. government produces hundreds of people. so overall thousands of people volunteers will do that job. now you mentioned russian hydrocarbons and the r c. the russian arthur holds about 25 percent afresh. oil because there is more than 70 percent of natural gas. missouri said the demand for those at least from the european side,

has significantly decreased. do you have, if not altogether evaporated? do we have other industries other anchors to stimulate the development plans that your task with implementing? well, it's very important to finish the job. that is to be finished and i will natural resources is not the resource curse. it's a god given thrasher, literally the investment projects that we now he in arctic and we developed over and 0 to enable them to take out. those merchandise will produce $100000000000.00 raving every year in 5 to 7 years from now. 100000000000 the u. s. d. even taking into account the recent political changes and but the world's difficulty in the world is not confined to the united states and european states. 2 thirds of the world, they do business with russia. they present the month for those resources and it's

pretty much in finance. you only need to check the prices for those oil and gas call, mental goals. cope or newco, bellagio, and all the other stuff that i will see produces to see because the price is a only objective measurement of the month. supply balance. so it's not about only the month of operating. it's about where you have the money, where you have supply all the asian countries being supplied from the russian arctic by key vital and there are good resources. now, technological expertise and competitiveness have been perennial issues for a country. we have many bright ideas. we also have difficulties implementing them in practice, right. i'm sure you would agree that our access to western technology has been severely curtailed. can rush a little on its own, doesn't need support from. they are not on about whether we can or not we,

we should. so we will, when the russia is corner to look at them from the best and in terms of technological self sufficiency, i was, i'm an economist by training and i was frankly, very worried that we built a, an extreme version of consumer capitalism. where we're literally converted all the proceedings of when the resources into buying stuff and mostly buying stuff from the west. but of course, historically, russian society was able to produce fantastic things, you know, were launched. whitney in the 710 years after the end of the most destructive war that has ever happened to russia as well as a huge human cost as well. i mean, it was to people instead of what they see and what they believe in, instead of consumer capitalism. where we were not able to produce a lot of stuff. we will build a creative, socially oriented, and solving form of organisation. they would not want even to pull as capitalism,

because the russia will never be governed by large balls of capital. russia very, as you know, it's place the place because we are the largest country in the world. since i'm a mistake, we will print whatever we minister. i know that i want to argue with you, but i know that prior to the, to the russian operation in ukraine, you were one of the advocates of why they're cooperation with foreign enterprises. for example, for the development of the russian. i break the play right. you spoke in favor of that? do you think those plans will still be able to be realized without some of that expertise? it's competitive. number one, they do not believe that the current freezing of relations will last too long because it's rational for all human to look at the rate on key topics like arctic you can lot have to separate camps of countries taking care of arctic rush responsible for the arctic and so in other countries, members of the arts,

the council who now is simply cancelled ok peroration but arctic is, is unique and it's a in its entirety. so i believe some companies will come to foster, some conscious will take longer, but they believe there will be a restoration of some corporation, but you'll rational through itself into globalization so eagerly and saw unprepared, ugly look at chain my currency steel lot, freely convertible, market steel, very much to protect that. then it took them 40 years to protect and to get it from the nurture local competences. so of course, you need to create conditions so that now are being create that they truly and even force for new that will enable us do a little bit build to that in the strengths that we need as a so sustainable economy. okay, well minister we have to take a very short break right now. we will be back in just a few seconds. so they can a,

we're a what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy, even foundation, let it be an arms race is often very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk with the me

or i welcome back to worlds. of course miss alex th can call fresh minister for the development of the forest and they are to minister. you mentioned the issue of the russian nor see a route a couple of times. the russians try to just usually talk about it as, you know, something that's can turn rushing into this logistical superpower. but i, one day, the recent experience of the air travel industry with many western companies and not only western companies, limiting their flights to an over russia offer a bit of a cautionary tale and disregard, even if we develop it. do we have enough demand? well, i know in big detail, every single project that needs loaded on the road to export its produce 42 percent of that liquefied natural gas. all the investment was already made and

then 5 to 7 years from now, we need to export 50000000 miles per year. the other one is oil by ro sniffed investment already made 5 to 7 years another 50000000 miles. i will not have him go further because the russian driven demand is the russians are in demand. exactly the demand for the merchandise is in asia, but they would have to have to be transported from the arctic from from laurels, from chicago to asian markets. the only way to do that is by completing the development to flows by completing the ice braking fleet, the ice class transports lead force, satellites, communication, infrastructure, security and emergency infrastructure. this will be done. now the development of the arctic is very intimately linked to the issue of climate change. and i heard you say that for you, there is no debate whether or not it's happening simply based on the number of climate is an emergency situations you have to pay attention to. is there something

that russia or any other country can really do to fully prepare itself for that given the unpredictability of what is actually happening? scale, you know, the, the most efficient solutions are usually the simplest. and the most obvious use more nuclear power burden less coal, isn't that simple? so why is friends a very developed and intelligent country using almost 80 percent of nuclear power and was germany giving up nuclear power? why? so? it's politics. that's people, you know, the psychology people perceive risks differently. so you call the french more intelligent and germans look necessarily because then it would have to, through the english and they tell them to make it the la and then it goes. but what i'm saying is we have proven solutions that already exist hundreds of times and nuclear power is one such solution that the humanity needs to use much more broadly

. and for instance, what we do is we use floating nuclear stations with the 1st example in the world. and now even building to supply new investment projects, we're building 4 of the 4 of those. this could be used anywhere in the world, wherever people live on the shore. you can talk a floating nuclear station, then you have 5060 megawatts per block administer you are talking about not exacerbating using technology not to exert surveyed the problem. but if the problem already exists and you know, a nature generally doesn't recognize borders, neither do flood fires, smoke. we share a very large border with china, which, you know, whatever your political tend to your political feelings we may have to. and one another is the biggest polluter in the world, right? are there any ways to ensure that the actions of somebody else in the real, for the fact that that's what i'm asking about?

well, you know, before the, before, the, unprecedented, the baker with western sanctions and the western economic attack on russia. i was sort of a pinion that the climate climate. the agenda was to be the unifying mechanism to force certain countries to do what all the other countries want. because otherwise, how can you force india? you're talking about china. but thinking about india, one in the have 1000000000 people who are eager to catch up on industrial development and who needs to burn billions of tons of coal for that. and in there is a vibrant democracy. they will do whatever they people want. it's the genuine democracy they enjoy live, that us will do what them, what people want and people will ship our ship. our frankly, indian farmers do not care about 2 emissions with respect. so how can you force them to do it? and you think it's impossible. that's why it's really, it requires a multilateral mechanisms and the healthy international system of international

relations that what we really do not observe right now. i even heard you compare the issue of climate change to the efforts to, to the efforts of trying not to have another 3rd exam or in the 2nd half of that we'd like to enter. exactly. now if we look around, the possibility of a global conflict has dramatically increased, doesn't mean that we are doomed in the realm of climate change. because clearly these global agenda takes not just the 2nd, but you can see to whatever your political necessity there is. well, i try to follow the wise men and they seize a business leaders and none of them stop is g agenda for one minute. in spite of the last couple of months, we're really busy for largest fresh businesses. 3, just to find new ways of, you know, supplies, financial mechanisms, new markets, you'll logistical systems. still all of them keep on the threat, the g,

a certain level of you know, greenery or for ecological balance because it will come, it will come as a global tax or in some other ways. those businesses who will ignore this topic. they will be hit by a certain tax, whatever. it's called the carbon tax or, and suddenly it's so i think that businesses must be released and that's what's happening given that you have experience in both the corporate world than the governing world. and i assume some knowledge of how those things are operating in the west. who do you think have the most influence on their, on the, on that climate change issue? is it the business leaders alternately be the government or political leaders? well, it's all connect, you know, because business leaders, they are interested in political stability, political leaders. they are sort of more attuned to popular sentiment,

but football or sentiment is being formed by business because businesses produce information, that's your business. so we see a lot of, again, well propaganda information, what you call it, we see a much stronger ecological movement which creates a warners and people start thinking about is the concern for their environment among the masses among the public. still, they are given all the propaganda. they've been fat about the ukranian war. remember, 6 months ago, everyone was talking about the panoramic now much less. so i think climate change will re merge as an important topic and some point because people see floods, people see fires, people see heat waves, and it makes the news. so now the past couple of months, the ukraine prices made the news, but even already i think there is a certain tiring of that, but climate change will remain and i will artic is a very important arena where the climate change will manifest and will be discussed

now you mentioned the issue of different demik and one of the potentially very dangerous issues, your res, before was that those biological security as the permafrost melt, it may release ancient viruses, right? how big is, is a thread over when other major pandemic that our and those territories may well, i will not answer you about that and they make him not a biological expert. but is that a real risk? as far as the risk is releasing all the me said, but this contained in permafrost and vis a very, very actual wrist, because artic hits up faster than the rest of the world. if you sub, because all the accumulate the climate pollution in the previous hundreds of years and now we have 2.5 percent faster. heating up of our kick as i told you. and it was well known roughly 65 percent from a for us, a lot of our cities and

a lot of our businesses i built on permafrost. so not only that infrastructure is at risk, but all the new fame captured in that permit for us. if it goes into the atmosphere, the whole planet will suffer badly. so that's why we are interested in containing global warming and companion climate change, subject to using reasonable solutions. as i said, we shall not create some fantastic or financial speculation, making us aware, you know, trillions of dollars exchange change in some obscure financial instrument carbon credits. but where is the actual real, you know, clean electricity, and it has to be clean, you know, the german and it's called energy. well, they're the germans shift to clean energy resulted in german burning more coal because they need that more reserve capacity to insure against fluctuations in orange demand that shall not be the case. so it's really has to be made that much more responsible minister. i've covered the work of the council for

a couple of years and this used to be the platform was some of those issues were debated them, but even some decisions were made. i remember that even the canadians and the americans used to tell that the russians actually good in the north. so it was an area of genuine corporation. and i think place where we try to treat each other fairly. but as you mentioned, they are to counsel gathers last march and it pretty much excluded russia. do you think there's any venue left for those ties to be built meaningfully within the impact it has to be because the arctic humanity concerns all humanity. we receive questions and the important to inquire about arctic from china, india, the middle east, south east asia. everyone is concerned about what happened started. how knows that sir was going to hold for what is global warming? how to update and the g resources of the arctics. so we can have

a small group of countries, low 7 countries to exclude $170.00 countries from that topic. so i believe will return to reasonable dialogue in some time. am i hearing you correctly the bi, excluding russia, b r c council. pretty much canceled itself as, as if i give it a shot to the arctic into. but you can look, you know, you can look it up into and hope it to contain what it's got. so now you have an empty half of nothingness, and we have to resume normal consultations, normal dialogue as soon as possible. and finally, russia has the largest coastline in the arctic, and it's also an area of bio for the country security. it hosts the number of strategic military installations and western analysts have long been using rush of trying to militarize the north. i want to how much conservation or even synergy there is between your ministry and the minister minister of defense. we support our

servicemen in all respects and i have to tell is that our arctic shield is very strong and the people who serve that are very brave. it's my wonder to spend some time with them and frankly gives me a lot of inspiration. so it doesn't give you also the inspiration for development, i guess can it be use time 10 years and they both they building on the installation and developing that. everybody does their own work. so military protects businessmen create businesses. the government ensure social infrastructure, insurers, education, health care and all the other things. and as i told you that you read the governors who create their own them a really very positive environment where a positive vibe. look at the moment page. a look at that and get us to look at every single one of them, all you to call. you see people who really love what they do in love, the region where the leaf and they don't want to move to more school. so i see

those eyelids are keep the lago off new reality being create that then artic, and we do our best to support that well, minister, we have to live there. thank you very much for this very inspiring conversation. thank you, and thank you for watching. hope to see again, was apart with me for a for to stay up with

you for that. a, a dealer in most schools get killed one the initial be one of club, a dealer post on zillow, while a diaz can used to put value a new one. do you do or change, but you also still wish to done those a mostly i did.